Engine out. Anything to replace?

[ezunix]

Hi guys.

I bough a FJ1000 which bears clear signs of being used for 30 years. I'm in process of making the bike shiny again. I'm taking out the engine to have it sandblasted and repainted. Will do the same with the frame.
The engine was running very fine when I bough the bike. But, since I'm already taking it out. Is there anything else I should be looking into? Maybe new piston rings? Anything else?

[Arnie]

Do all the "normal" checks on the engine to determine if anything NEEDS to be renewed.
Wet and dry compression checks after you've adjusted the valve shims will give you a pretty good indication of ring, valve, valve stem seal wear.  Let that make your decision.

Taking the engine out of an FJ is pretty easy.  I'd expect that your Norwegian riding season is fairly short and the FJ engine is pretty robust.  How many kms does your 1100 have?  A full rebuild is not cheap, and IMO money wasted if not needed.

Cheers,
Arnie

[ribbert]

Hi guys.

....... I'm taking out the engine to have it sandblasted and repainted. Will do the same with the frame.
The engine was running very fine when I bough the bike. But, since I'm already taking it out. Is there anything else I should be looking into? Maybe new piston rings? Anything else?

Depends what you want, a project to play with or a sound bike to just ride that looks good.

Do as Arnie suggested with valve adjustment and comp test and if all is good, or even reasonable, leave it alone.

It is not necessary to remove the engine to get a great paint job. Even under the closest scrutiny, you would not pick the difference between an engine that has only been cleaned and painted in the bike and one that has been blasted and bench spayed. Keep in mind just how much of it is seen when fitted too.

A degrease, high pressure clean, careful masking, carbs & header pipes off and single coat of engine enamel will have it looking like it just rolled out of the factory, and stay looking that way for many years.

Refitting a freshly painted engine is also likely to damage a lot of the paint job trying to wrestle it into position. Engine enamel also stays "soft" until cured by a couple of hours at running temp and tends to leave finger prints from handling while refitting. No amount of time you leave it sitting will cure the paint, only heat.

The FJ's were made in an era when finishes were still of a very high standard and the whole bike responds well to detailing.

In my opinion, and experience, fiddling with things that are working on old machines is often asking for trouble, we see it here frequently.

Fix what isn't working, leave the rest alone (other than cosmetics) and ride it, IMO.

Perhaps you could provide some more detail such as mileage, if it has been sitting for any length of time or in constant service etc. this will help with some suggestions as to what sort of jobs are recommended.

Welcome.

Noel

[ezunix]

Do all the "normal" checks on the engine to determine if anything NEEDS to be renewed.

I've been riding it for about 50 kms (30 miles) before I decided to clean it. The engine behaved very well. Both on highway and when accelerating on high RPMs.

Wet and dry compression checks after you've adjusted the valve shims will give you a pretty good indication of ring, valve, valve stem seal wear.  Let that make your decision.

What compression values should be in acceptable range?

Taking the engine out of an FJ is pretty easy.  I'd expect that your Norwegian riding season is fairly short and the FJ engine is pretty robust.  How many kms does your 1100 have?  A full rebuild is not cheap, and IMO money wasted if not needed.

That depends on who you're asking This year I started in March and will probably stop riding October.
And yeah, I only have a few bolts left and the engine will come off. Takes only a couple of hours.

[fj1289]

WTF?!  Nobody trying to push him over to the dark side?!    1350 pistons, ported head, XJR rods ....

[ezunix]

Depends what you want, a project to play with or a sound bike to just ride that looks good.

I want both. It's a cafe racer project. I want it to both ride well and look great.

It is not necessary to remove the engine to get a great paint job. Even under the closest scrutiny, you would not pick the difference between an engine that has only been cleaned and painted in the bike and one that has been blasted and bench spayed. Keep in mind just how much of it is seen when fitted too.

A degrease, high pressure clean, careful masking, carbs & header pipes off and single coat of engine enamel will have it looking like it just rolled out of the factory, and stay looking that way for many years.

Refitting a freshly painted engine is also likely to damage a lot of the paint job trying to wrestle it into position. Engine enamel also stays "soft" until cured by a couple of hours at running temp and tends to leave finger prints from handling while refitting. No amount of time you leave it sitting will cure the paint, only heat.

That's actually a very valid point. I painted the pipes on my Harley. They were hanging to dry for days and just wouldn't dry.
On the other hand, there are some places that are also hard to reach when the engine is on the bike. I also want to sand and paint the frame as it's bit rusty some places.
Normally the paint won't stick if the surface was not sanded. You think the paint will stick to the engine head when you can't really sand it by hand?

Perhaps you could provide some more detail such as mileage, if it has been sitting for any length of time or in constant service etc. this will help with some suggestions as to what sort of jobs are recommended.

Not sure about the mileage. The instruments show 16.000 kms. I guess it has 116.000 kms behind it. The bike has been in use until I bought it. There were no issues with it as far as I know.

[ribbert]

...... You think the paint will stick to the engine head when you can't really sand it by hand?

Yes, this is my motor 3 or 4 years and about 60,000km after painting.



The preparation involved no more than a wash with a kero gun and a high pressure wash, that's it. Then a single coat of engine enamel.

You can see a finger print smudge on the back of the starter.
The clutch cover has also been W&D to achieve a satin finish then clear lacquered.

The visible parts of the frame were also painted in-situ.

Noel

[ezunix]

The preparation involved no more than a wash with a kero gun and a high pressure wash, that's it. Then a single coat of engine enamel.

Hmmm, interesting. I must admit, the bike looks really nice.
I have painted quite a few cars and car parts before. To achieve a good end result, a solid ground work was always a must - sanding, cleaning, masking, paint and then clear.
Did you just paint it with a brush?

The clutch cover has also been W&D to achieve a satin finish then clear lacquered.

What's W&D?
Did you lay clear coat with a gun, spray box or brush?

The visible parts of the frame were also painted in-situ.

Sure, that may be doable when you cover most of the bike with plastic. Harder in my case - my bike will be naked since it's a cafe racer mod...

[movenon]

WTF?!  Nobody trying to push him over to the dark side?!   1350 pistons, ported head, XJR rods ....

Did someone say "Dark side" ?  

George

[great white]

WTF?!  Nobody trying to push him over to the dark side?!   1350 pistons, ported head, XJR rods ....

Did someone say "Dark side" ?  

George

Gotta say; that's a new one on me.

Touring bikes and boulevard cruisers sure. FJR, nope. That's a new one.....

[movenon]

Well he went to Alaska and back and looking for another 10 or 15,000 miles on her .  Welcome to the Darkside..

George

[great white]

Well he went to Alaska and back and looking for another 10 or 15,000 miles on her .  Welcome to the Darkside..

George

I just said "new one on me", meaning I haven't seen that before (ie: on a "sporty type" bike). Everyone is welcome to do as they please as far as I'm concerned.

[TexasDave]

Well he went to Alaska and back and looking for another 10 or 15,000 miles on her .  Welcome to the Darkside..

George

I just said "new one on me", meaning I haven't seen that before (ie: on a "sporty type" bike). Everyone is welcome to do as they please as far as I'm concerned.

A few of the Iron Butt FJR's use them and don't have a worry for over 11000 mi. They are required by rules to have a tire pressure monitor if running car tires.  Dave 

[Arnie]

What compression values should be in acceptable range?

The Yamaha Service manual states that:

Compression Pressure (at sea level) is:

Standard  142psi
Minimum  128psi
Maximum 171psi

I'd add that if any one of the cylinders is more than about 10% different, you should consider service.

Sorry for the delay in replying

Arnie

[ribbert]

I have painted quite a few cars and car parts before. To achieve a good end result, a solid ground work was always a must - sanding, cleaning, masking, paint and then clear.
Did you just paint it with a brush?

What's W&D?
Did you lay clear coat with a gun, spray box or brush?

Not sure what you're referring to when you say you have painted quite a few cars. Painting bodywork is another whole thing.
IMO, mechanical parts and engines need only to be clean and grease free and painted with the appropriate product. This is an area where too much thought can be counter productive.
Primers, base coats etc are not needed. Dedicated engine enamel is designed to be, and works best, applied directly to the motor. Clear is not required, although it might take the gloss to another level if that's your thing. However, you have seen the photo of my motor and I would be surprised if you were looking for a better finish.

Engines differ from most other car parts because of heat and the finish that has contact with surface must be a suitable product. I do a lot of this stuff for work and I still work on motors I painted 20 years ago and they remain looking great.

W&D is Wet & Dry rubbing paper.

The engine paint I use is this, in a spray can. You would never get a finish like that with a brush.



I wash the engine with a paint brush so as not to scratch it.

The clutch cover is just sprayed (from a can) in general purpose clear lacquer. it doesn't appear to get hot enough to effect it and has showed no sign of yellowing or breaking up over all that time. High temp clear coat is not necessary.

Once masked up, the engine only takes 5 minutes to paint. The key to a great job, even with the motor out of the frame, is good masking.

Good luck, sounds like a fun project.Keep the pictures flowing as you progress.

If staying with the original frame colour, this is the nearest I've seen to a perfect match, and I tried dozens.



Noel