GPS Help

[FeralRdr]

Firehawk's setup is also how I mounted my Zumo 550 on my '87, and in my case it tended to keep the GPS dry (at least when I was moving).  Even when traveling down the Interstate at speed in a driving rain with spray coming up off of semis it never got soaked.  At stops it would catch a few drops, but in general stays pretty dry mounted in that location.  For best results, you definitely want to get a mount of some kind and if you haven't already done so, look into a power cable as well.  I would also advise that when you get your device, take the time to study the manual.  Many of the Garmin devices have some really cool features that may not be evident by just toggling through the menu screens.

[fj johnnie]

 Last week we rode from Clanton Alabama, to New Orleans ( Mardi Gras ) , Avery Island ( Tabasco factory ), and back through the bayou and through the back roads of Alabama. The roads are so poorly marked there, that finding fun roads is almost impossible with a map. A good GPS would probably be the only way to discover interesting roads that one could use to string together a route.
Many times we passed interesting roads that were not on our map. We were using  NEW map that we purchased the same week we travelled.
Our route planner ALLWAYS plans our routes with a map, but had to admit defeat. True story.

[magge52]

I like the smartphone apps but there are still plenty of areas that are out of range for cell coverage so I take my Magellan Maestro and maps on the long trips. Magellan hasn't had a map update since I bought it so I may be looking at a new gps. It does ok with routes for the most part but local stuff like gas stations and restaurants change too often.

[ribbert]

.....I like the smartphone apps....

Interesting. I read an article recently about the future of the stand alone GPS units vs Smart phone apps. The conclusion was the GPS unit has nothing to fear, basically because we are lazy (and a few other things)
We apparently want them working independent of each other and the relatively cheap price of GPS units means we can. I have GPS units in all my cars and on my bike. When they were expensive I would move the one unit from vehicle to vehicle. I have tried using the phone apps and quite simply, find it a PIA. Technically you can do it but practically it doesn't work.

I know Capn' Ron swears by his phone app and has navigated his way all over the country with it but for me it's a matter of convenience, phone for phone calls, mail etc, GPS unit for navigating.

As already mentioned they don't work very well in tank bags because of the reflection and, as someone mentioned they aren't much good in direct sunlight. The Zumos, and I imagine other motorbike specific units have different screens. The Zumo (Garmin) can be easily read in all light conditions.

If choosing to use a normal car unit, which I will do when my Zumo dies, you can get universal peaks that shade the screen. I have the standard non US screen (finned type) on my bike and find that even in the harshest conditions, it stays dry, it only gets a bit of rain if stopped with the weather coming from behind and tests done on normal units show them to be surprisingly waterproof anyway, although the manufacturers make no such claims.

I have mine mounted in what seems to be a popular spot, over the steering stem nut, although mounting methods differ, the location is a favourite.

Noel

[FJ1100mjk]

I'm going the smartphone route. I own a high-end one, and from what I've been reading about others on other cycling forums that are using them, is that they are very capable. I've been very interested in some of their details of using various offline map systems (free), that you download into your phone, then you do not need to have an internet connection (something you'll lose in the boonies) to navigate.

One of the drawbacks to the phone, is its small screen. I plan on either using earbuds, or Bluetooth, to listen to the directions, and/or listen to podcasts or music. The latter, can also be downloaded to the phone, so no internet connection is needed.

A larger GPS screen may be nice for viewing, but I am not sure how safe it is to try and ride and look at the screen at the same time. However, that's not an issue if you stop, look at the screen, and take off again.

From researching smartphones versus a dedicated GPS, there's some strong arguements for using a smartphone instead.

Mis dos centavos.

[giantkiller]

Let us know if you find a good map download that works.

[ribbert]

I'm going the smartphone route. I own a high-end one, and from what I've been reading about others on other cycling forums that are using them, is that they are very capable. I've been very interested in some of their details of using various offline map systems (free), that you download into your phone, then you do not need to have an internet connection (something you'll lose in the boonies) to navigate.

One of the drawbacks to the phone, is its small screen. I plan on either using earbuds, or Bluetooth, to listen to the directions, and/or listen to podcasts or music. The latter, can also be downloaded to the phone, so no internet connection is needed.

A larger GPS screen may be nice for viewing, but I am not sure how safe it is to try and ride and look at the screen at the same time. However, that's not an issue if you stop, look at the screen, and take off again.

From researching smartphones versus a dedicated GPS, there's some strong arguements for using a smartphone instead.

Mis dos centavos.

Having used both it's a no brainer for me, but I understand it is largely a matter of personal choice. I do wonder though if these "arguments" are made in the office or on the bike.
One thing I didn't mention was the data the phone sucks up when it's connected all day long.

How do offline maps plot your current position if not connected?

As far as the safety of looking at the screen, you don't stare at it for any length of time, the glances are no longer than a speedo check. You already have a picture in you mind and are just checking the detail such as distance to turn etc.
If it's mounted high enough, the road remains in your peripheral vision.

Yes, a phone will do the job, but as a user of both, I reckon the GPS is waaaay better.

What happens if you're on the phone and sail right past your turn off?

As the article said, in theory the phone works, in practice it doesn't. I agree.

The only thing that really matters is that you're out riding your bike and how you navigate to where ever you're going is only icing.

Noel

[FJ1100mjk]

Let us know if you find a good map download that works.

This one http://osmand.net/ seems to tick a lot of the boxes. You can get a watered-down free version to play around with and see if you like it. Same for this one http://copilotgps.com/us/ It also ticks a lot of boxes.

Probably get a Sena or Cardo unit for Bluetooth and other wireless data transfer.

[Capn Ron]

Let us know if you find a good map download that works.

This one http://osmand.net/ seems to tick a lot of the boxes. You can get a watered-down free version to play around with and see if you like it. Same for this one http://copilotgps.com/us/ It also ticks a lot of boxes.

CoPilot is the one I use and have been using since around 2005.  Started with it on a laptop with a GPS puck...then ported it over to an HTC Windows mobile phone (with a bluetooth GPS puck) and then to an iPhone 3GS and then to the iPhone 4 and soon to the iPhone 6 +.

All along I have also used a dedicated Garmin GPS unit on occasion, but will never go back to them.  I even have a factory GPS in my Nissan (a $2,000 option btw) that works pretty well...just not as good as CoPilot so it's just taking up dash space now.  Just too many benefits to a *good* phone-based nav app.

Part of me thinks this resistance to smart-phone navigation is the proliferation of the ones that come canned with your phone?  The little Google navigation app would be horrible to use on a motorcycle for many of the stated reasons.  As would Waze.  And MotionX.  They can get you to a destination in a pinch, but would be just awful on the bike.

[Capn Ron]

Having used both it's a no brainer for me, but I understand it is largely a matter of personal choice. I do wonder though if these "arguments" are made in the office or on the bike.

I think you're onto something there Noel.  As mentioned in my previous post, if people tried to use the little free nav apps (Apple Maps, Google Maps, Waze) on their phone, the "bench talk" would quickly dismiss them as viable for use on a motorcycle.  If that's the exposure folks have to nav tools...or that's all that was available...I'd agree 100%...although they have their place, they're not a long-term solution for your bike.

One thing I didn't mention was the data the phone sucks up when it's connected all day long.

I rode through the states with an unlimited data plan, so I just left the data on...for no other reason than I didn't have to switch it back and forth when I wanted to check my email or text my position at lunchtime.

I rode the entire width of Canada with cellular data turned off...for no other reason than it was crazy expensive for international roaming (even with a temp plan).  In much of my remote exploration in Canada, I wouldn't have found a signal anyway.

In BOTH scenarios, navigation is not effected.  A proper navigation app does NOT use a data connection.

How do offline maps plot your current position if not connected?

GPS satellites...We regular civilians have had access to those buggers orbiting the planet for the last 25 years.  Exactly the same way a dedicated GPS unit works.  No different at all.  There's a GPS chip in nearly every phone or tablet made now.  All the street-level map data for two entire countries along with every restaurant, gas station and Yamaha dealer are stored in the phone to pull up and navigate to anytime you want.  Further, all that information is added to or corrected at EVERY app update.

As far as the safety of looking at the screen, you don't stare at it for any length of time, the glances are no longer than a speedo check. You already have a picture in you mind and are just checking the detail such as distance to turn etc.
If it's mounted high enough, the road remains in your peripheral vision.

This is exactly correct.  You never look down at your screen and then start wondering what information you'd like.  Quite the opposite.  You think about what you want to know:  Speed, distance to next turn, altitude, ETA, current road name, nearest city, what the next three curves in the road look like, etc...  You then picture where that is on the screen...glance down at that position and you're done.  Just like a speedo, tach or fuel check.

What happens if you're on the phone and sail right past your turn off?

The same thing that happens when I'm in the car.  "Hey, I'll call you back."  I know others can, but I can't focus on riding, talking on the phone and navigating all at the same moment.  When I'm riding, they can leave a message.  

As the article said, in theory the phone works, in practice it doesn't. I agree.  Yes, a phone will do the job, but as a user of both, I reckon the GPS is waaaay better.

A proper GPS app on the iPhone works awesome...in theory and in practice.  A dedicated GPS unit also works awesome!!!  In both theory and in practice.

The only thing that really matters is that you're out riding your bike and how you navigate to where ever you're going is only icing.

Noel

100% agreed!    Doesn't matter what you pick to navigate with as long as it's a good fit for YOU.  Heck, I'll even refer to a paper map once a year or so...  

Disclaimers:

I don't ever take or make phone calls while riding...so my need for two disparate devices is reduced.  I suppose if I were taking a lot of calls, I would have a different view on tying up my cell phone otherwise...or tying up my GPS otherwise.

I use an iPhone.  Not all apps work the same on all devices as developers will pick a platform to focus on first and then port them to other platforms.  They then work on fixing issues under some priority scheme.  I have used CoPilot on an Android tablet two years ago and it wasn't as "polished" as the version I use on IOS.

[FeralRdr]

This one http://osmand.net/ seems to tick a lot of the boxes. You can get a watered-down free version to play around with and see if you like it. Same for this one http://copilotgps.com/us/ It also ticks a lot of boxes.

I used OSMand on my Android Tablet, and it seemed to work fine.  I don't know how well it works for Navigation (on/off bike), as I never had the opportunity to try it out for that purpose.  to be honest, I had no real reason to, as I use my Garmin ZUMO for Navigation on the bike.  I can tell you that on my tablet, it does use a lot of battery power, so I would again advise making sure you have a power cable installed on your bike to alleviate that potential issue.  

I mainly tried it out for route planning purposes when traveling, and I was looking for an option that included terrain (contour-lines).  I found out that OSMand uses terrain map data from governmental agencies such as the U.S. Geological Survey (at least for U.S. coverage), so I figured the data would be accurate enough.  I don't know what the differences are between the pay and free versions.  I got the app from https://f-droid.org/ which is a repository (app store), for free and open source apps.  Many of the apps are the full version that normally would cost money on Google Play, I don't know if my version was the same as the paid version on Google play, but I can tell you that I never encountered any 'ads' or notifications that the function I wanted to use was only available in the paid version.  Also, they had the contour-line plugin for free, where as Google Play had it listed for $2.00.

[Firehawk068]

I use Neotreks GPS on my iphone when I'm off-road in the mountains.
The US street maps I have loaded in my Zumo doesn't show off-road trails very much at all.
Neotreks lets you download detailed topo, and trail maps to the iphone while you are in range of a cellular signal (i prefer to download them at home while on my network)
You can use them just fine with no tower signal, as they use GPS built-in to the phone to track your movements.

I rarely go off-road on the FJ (unless I'm riding with CapnRon) 
So, the Zumo works fine for me there.

The Neotreks app works excellent in the Jeep.

[FeralRdr]

I just found the info on OSMand's website, the version available on F-droid is the full version.  Non paid version only lets you download 10 map files, I had all of North America downloaded with contour data onto my SD card.

With that in mind, I'd like to add one key piece of info that should be taken into consideration.  From my short time using OSMand I found the road data very accurate, not perfect to be sure, but very accurate in terms of a road being there (at least for the states of Oregon and Washington, USA).  However, it's POI database is very limited (compared to Google and Garmin).  I would still recommend giving the app a try.  It may provide you with what you need on the cheep.

[Capn Ron]

I just found the info on OSMand's website, the version available on F-droid is the full version.

However, it's POI database is very limited (compared to Google and Garmin).  I would still recommend giving the app a try.  It may provide you with what you need on the cheep.

A good POI database is great to have!  I've found CoPilot to be pretty thorough with your most used categories on the first screen and then the choice for more categories on the lower right.  That'll bring up 28 main categories and each one of those has a pile of sub-categories (including wineries!).   



If you can't find it in there (rare) you can search directly within the app using Google, Wikipedia or Yelp (with a data connection)...and once you've found what you're after, it'll just pop the address straight into the nav app.  Pretty cool.

As for the keeping your eyes on the road, I have the iPhone mounted dead-center juuuuust below the view-line of my gauges and have it angled *directly* at my eyes to avoid any sky-induced glare.  I've used RAM mount bits to accomplish this as well as a nice little platform for my radar detector.  It's got switchable charger power fed to it to keep the battery topped up.



The standard screen works fine for me with the next "instruction" as the largest element bottom-center.  This is easy enough to give a quick glance to every once in a while to keep my timing correct for a soon to arrive lane change...or I can cruise the carpool lane for another 30 miles!



If that seems small (it's really not)...two presses gets you into "Directions" view and the whole screen is just the pointy arrow bit...and it's HUGE!



Oh...and because it's a *smart* phone, the app knows when sunset is each day for wherever you are and automatically goes into "night mode" accordingly.  Freakin' magic I tell ya!   

[Capn Ron]

I use Neotreks GPS on my iphone when I'm off-road in the mountains.
The US street maps I have loaded in my Zumo doesn't show off-road trails very much at all.
Neotreks lets you download detailed topo, and trail maps to the iphone while you are in range of a cellular signal (i prefer to download them at home while on my network)
You can use them just fine with no tower signal, as they use GPS built-in to the phone to track your movements.

I rarely go off-road on the FJ (unless I'm riding with CapnRon) 
So, the Zumo works fine for me there.

The Neotreks app works excellent in the Jeep.

Alan,

Thanks for the tip on NeoTreks!  I just did some off-roading in the Panamint Range and my fellow rock crawlers used an app called Gaia...it too has local topo maps that you can layer on top of road maps.  The two guys using that app were amazing at finding little off-shoot trails and the landmarks we were looking for!

You KNOW you will end up off-road with me on the FJ again...it's just gonna happen!