Battery not charging

[wildfire]

Remember fellas we are talking about only doing this on an determined  unhealthy charging system( never do it for any other reason) with a  stator independant of  r/r not  a alternator whose regulator is integral. Usually the r/r will fail first or perform badly causing the stator to work harder and burn out..


On second thoughts I should not have suggested this unless someone is aware of the stator r/r communication and function and most importantly what electronics are self load dependent.

If it doubt leave it out.

[movenon]

The only thing I can say is to install a digital voltmeter on the FJ so in the future you can see if it overcharging, undercharging and the battery voltage with the key on.  It beats me why on the newer FJ's Yamaha elected to put a LCD clock in the cluster rather than a voltmeter.  But that's how it is. Small digital meter's are super cheap on e bay.
George

[Capn Ron]

It beats me why on the newer FJ's Yamaha elected to put a LCD clock in the cluster rather than a voltmeter.  But that's how it is.

George

That's so you can note your battery's time of death.   

[Pat Conlon]

In the past my batteries have died suddenly...without warning. I do not have a voltmeter but wonder if a voltmeter would have predicted their death? I do know "in the past" I have boiled my batteries dry on long rides.

I say "in the past" for a reason. Funny, but I have never had a sudden battery failure since I installed the Transpo (adjustable) VR. I set the max. charging voltage to 14.2 volts.

Yea, funny about the oem clock. I would have passed on the clock, but I wish I had a dollar for every time I reached for that ever elusive 6th gear...

Randy is working on a solution* for that...and I'm first in line.

*A mechanical switch that replaces your neutral switch with a small rectangular LED read out you can glue on the bottom of your tach. face. (Yes, I know he is selling a 2" gauge they use in their race cars, but I don't want that...and it is $$ expensive)

[movenon]

"In the past my batteries have died suddenly...without warning. I do not have a voltmeter but wonder if a voltmeter would have predicted their death? I do know "in the past" I have boiled my batteries dry on long rides."

As to predicting death I am not sure.

But the first thing is when you turn the ignition on you can read your resting voltage . If you are reading 12.7 with a new battery and over time is drops to lets say 12.5 volts then that's an indicator perhaps the battery isn't holding a charge or ? .  I am just picking a number when I say 12.7 because it depends on where you have the meter tapped into and the type of battery you are running but you would have your own "standard" to reference to.

Second is the charging voltage. Let say in your case it jumps up to 14.2 volts and doesn't come down to a normal operating voltage lets say 13.5-13.8 volts then I would conclude that the battery is weak and not taking a charge.  At 14.2 volts +- the alternator is trying to make up for what the battery is lacking. Your charging voltage should drop slightly after 10-20 min of riding with a good battery.

Now if the voltage jumps up to 14.8 and then 15 volts (and in my last case 15.2 volts) then your regulator is probably failing. Over charging the battery boiling it out, heating up that little red connector plug and wire going to the battery, generally not good... Yamaha spec's 15 volts max.

If the charging voltage drops below 13 volts then you might have a problem with the charging system (alternator failing?).

I know you know all this shit Pat .  What I tried to say was for the others that are not as aware.  With the low price of those digital meters on e bay at 5-10.00 it is a good mod. .

I have also converted to an adjustable regulator. 29.00 dollars plus some shipping.
http://store.alternatorparts.com/ib303-voltage-regulator-for-bosch-alternators.aspx
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=661.0

George

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks George, as usual, good stuff...

[ribbert]

.......or that ever elusive 6th gear...

Randy is working on a solution* for that...and I'm first in line.

*A mechanical switch that replaces your neutral switch with a small rectangular LED read out you can glue on the bottom of your tach. face. (Yes, I know he is selling a 2" gauge they use in their race cars, but I don't want that...and it is $$ expensive)

Pat, from memory, it wouldn't be too difficult to put another contact on the neutral switch and have that light up when you hit 5th. (Or you could look at the tacho  )

I would think most people only ever use gear indicators in the top 2 gears anyway, which on 6 speeds is very close.

I can't imagine anyone checking their progress through the lower gears.

Noel
Noel

[Capn Ron]

I always felt that "hunting for sixth" was a great thing...There is so much pull even in fifth that you think you're in fourth!

I have a bit of a chant...to Noel's point.  "thirty-five is fifty-five!"  That is to say that, in fifth, 3500 is around 55 MPH on the speedo.  Keeps me from hunting for the higher gear that isn't there.   

[FJ_Hooligan]

A tip I got from a Honda Mec 3 months ago to check a stator on my Honda Shadow....

Start the bike, using jumper cables from a good source (but no battery in the bike circuit) and bring it up to  2500 rpms. Remove the jumper cables. Expect a drop in rpm's but the bike should still run .

IMPORTANT. Only let the bike run for a few seconds.

That wasn't a tip, it was a recipe for disaster. NEVER, EVER, disconnect the battery on a running motor.

WOW! There are far better electrical troubleshooting and diagnostic methods than this.  Especially when the problem and been somewhat localized already.

Here's a tip for those that have no working fuel gauge.
Next time you think you may need fuel, drop a lit match into the tank to verify it


_{(only kidding)}

[wildfire]

A tip I got from a Honda Mec 3 months ago to check a stator on my Honda Shadow....

Start the bike, using jumper cables from a good source (but no battery in the bike circuit) and bring it up to  2500 rpms. Remove the jumper cables. Expect a drop in rpm's but the bike should still run .

IMPORTANT. Only let the bike run for a few seconds.

That wasn't a tip, it was a recipe for disaster. NEVER, EVER, disconnect the battery on a running motor.

WOW! There are far better electrical troubleshooting and diagnostic methods than this.  Especially when the problem and been somewhat localized already.

Here's a tip for those that have no working fuel gauge.
Next time you think you may need fuel, drop a lit match into the tank to verify it


_{(only kidding)}

Weird comparison . But do tell if your r/r is defunct where does the charge from the stator go?

[TexasDave]

A tip I got from a Honda Mec 3 months ago to check a stator on my Honda Shadow....

Start the bike, using jumper cables from a good source (but no battery in the bike circuit) and bring it up to  2500 rpms. Remove the jumper cables. Expect a drop in rpm's but the bike should still run .

IMPORTANT. Only let the bike run for a few seconds.

That wasn't a tip, it was a recipe for disaster. NEVER, EVER, disconnect the battery on a running motor.

WOW! There are far better electrical troubleshooting and diagnostic methods than this.  Especially when the problem and been somewhat localized already.

Here's a tip for those that have no working fuel gauge.
Next time you think you may need fuel, drop a lit match into the tank to verify it


_{(only kidding)}

Weird comparison . But do tell if your r/r is defunct where does the charge from the stator go?

The charge can't go anywhere but but the stator/alternator is still producing energy. This energy has to go somewhere. The somewhere is HEAT. That is why your test ( which could be used on some vehicles 40-50 yrs old without electronics) would not be run more than a few seconds. Alternators heat up quite fast if there is no way to discharge their energy.  Dave

[ribbert]

The Rectifier and stator are both shot. I used the Yamaha factory service manual and the Haynes manual tests. Both with the same results. Just be cheaper to get a good used generator and be done with it.

CraigO

How much life is left in a second hand alternator?

Have you considered getting it reco'd by an auto electrician? This is an option many forget about and is very cost effective, and you know what your starting with. I recently had a quote on one, $120 including bearings vs $1300 for a new one (BMW)

Noel

[ribbert]

The charge can't go anywhere but but the stator/alternator is still producing energy. This energy has to go somewhere. The somewhere is HEAT. That is why your test ( which could be used on some vehicles 40-50 yrs old without electronics) would not be run more than a few seconds. Alternators heat up quite fast if there is no way to discharge their energy.  Dave
[/quote]

Dave, I can't agree with you on this one, depending on your system, the charge will find a way to ground, which in the absence of the battery will be the path of least resistance, your most sensitive electronics.
The alternator is not a storage device, it can't accumulate power and dissipate all of it as heat. Yes, it will probably get hot before it finds somewhere to arc to though.

Not being a naturally occurring problem but an induced one, what happens, when it happens, how often it happens, what voltages are reached and why you can get away with sometimes and not others is to some extent speculation and not the subject of in depth research.

These days, most people will simply say, "don't do it". End of discussion.

It's bad practice and not necessary nor worth taking the risk.

Noel

[TexasDave]

The charge can't go anywhere but but the stator/alternator is still producing energy. This energy has to go somewhere. The somewhere is HEAT. That is why your test ( which could be used on some vehicles 40-50 yrs old without electronics) would not be run more than a few seconds. Alternators heat up quite fast if there is no way to discharge their energy.  Dave

Dave, I can't agree with you on this one, depending on your system, the charge will find a way to ground, which in the absence of the battery will be the path of least resistance, your most sensitive electronics.
The alternator is not a storage device, it can't accumulate power and dissipate all of it as heat. Yes, it will probably get hot before it finds somewhere to arc to though.

Not being a naturally occurring problem but an induced one, what happens, when it happens, how often it happens, what voltages are reached and why you can get away with sometimes and not others is to some extent speculation and not the subject of in depth research.

These days, most people will simply say, "don't do it". End of discussion.

It's bad practice and not necessary nor worth taking the risk.

Noel
Completely agree with you especially in reference to frying electronics. I was attempting to answer Wildfires question. With no path for discharge for the alternator/stator it is going to get hot and like you said arc a way to ground eventially or short out.  Dave

[ribbert]

Here's a tip for those that have no working fuel gauge.
Next time you think you may need fuel, drop a lit match into the tank to verify it
_{(only kidding)}

Haha, I like that. At least you'd get a conclusive result (unless the tank was full to the brim)

Noel