Carb Sync vacuum line Setup?

[JoBrCo]

OK guys,

When you sync, how do you deal with the petcock and igniter required vacuum lines.  I'm using my tank spun backwards, with no vacuum line attached to the petcock, it's set to prime and the igniter vacuum line is just hanging in the breeze.

I'm having problems getting her started.  Remember she has recently had Mystery Oil added to each cylinder, at least two tablespoons.

I'm getting some random fireings (popping) after pulling the plugs and wiping them off.  Early in the process they were definitely oil fouled, a couple times the plugs actually had balls of oil between the electrodes.  Now when I pull the plugs, it smells more like fuel, but flooded.  Checked # 1 bowl and there was fuel.  I have the OEM air box so it's a pain in the ass getting in there to check, (the uni pods are definitely on my list).  I haven't checked for spark on all four yet because it ran just fine when I sent her to mothballs 19 years ago, because of needle valve o-rings, (yeah, I know, don't cuss me out), priorities, priorities, priorities, if I could only turn back time, she'd have more than 31k miles on her by now.

Could no vacuum at the igniter box be a problem?

P.S. don't laugh but I had forgotten how hard it is to get the carbs in with the OEM air box in place.  I forgot you had to have it in place first, so I put the carbs in first and sighed with relief after about a half hour of looking like a monkey trying to screw an elephant, then it dawned on me, CRAP!  I grudgingly took them back out, cussing and spitting, then the REAL FUN began.  No need to continue the story because I'm sure you're all ROTFLYFAO right about now.    Lets just say it took me more than a hour getting them back in.  I actually prised them in with wooden 1x3's while wiggling then up and down, also had a little 5w20 engine oil on the intake manifold rubber boots.  I thought I was going to have a heart attack, or maybe an aneurism.  I sure don't envy FJ1100 mechanics, it probably takes three of them to insert carbs in a bike with the OEM configuration.  OR Gawd I'm in bad shape!!!

Glad that's over.

FJ Forever!  (Kinda)

JoBrCo

[FJ_Hooligan]

If you're synching with the petcock in the PRIME position, then don't worry about the petcock and ignition vacuum lines.  Just make sure you've got fuel flowing into the carbs.

If you're using a home made synch gauge with only 2 tubes, then you will need to cap off ALL open vacuum ports (ports that the synch gauge is NOT attached to).

[JoBrCo]

Spark on all four, but noticed that two of the plugs are NGK DP8EA9 and two are NGK DPR8EA9.  I'm thinking the last shop I took it to grabbed two resistor plugs by mistake.  Do you think that's a problem?  I'm thinking the Mystery Oil is the real problem, not enough octane to repeatedly fire, with the oil in there.  I sprayed a little starting fluid in each cylinder and got more fire, but she's still not continuing to run.  It sounds more promising now.  I just sprayed parts cleaner (with xylene)  into the plugs to get the oil from around the insulator. I think I should get four new plugs, NGK DP8EA9's.

TIA to anyone that has any ideas.

FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

If you're synching with the petcock in the PRIME position, then don't worry about the petcock and ignition vacuum lines.  Just make sure you've got fuel flowing into the carbs.

If you're using a home made synch gauge with only 2 tubes, then you will need to cap off ALL open vacuum ports (ports that the synch gauge is NOT attached to).

Thanks for your time Hooli. Actually I have a Carbtune II, which has four tubes.  I've had it hooked up since I began yesterday, still trying, I'm thinking it's all the oil in the cylinders. I'm using "regular" "Real" "Gasoline." it cost me $20.00 for 4 gallons.  I thought I should awaken her with the non Ethanol stuff, but all they had was regular.  I used to only run premium leaded in her back in the day. 

That's what I thought about the prime position, but wasn't sure.  Thanks for the reassurance!

I'm just gonna keep trying.

I'm actually getting very worried about the shit hitting the fan as far as work and money is concerned.  I've got to get this bike running by tomorrow or more work will be missed, they are outside the bus line.  I just don't know if the company will allow it.

JoBrCo

[Firehawk068]

I may not be up to date with all your posts, so I might have missed some info, but you mentioned that it ran great when you put it in storage 19yrs ago.................................

Have you pulled these carbs apart and thoroughly cleaned the insides of each one before trying to bring her back to life?

Storing a motor vehicle for that length of time, then trying to get it running, usually begins with alot of frustration...............Unless you went to GREAT LENGTHS to immaculately store it properly, and removed ALL TRACES of fuel completely from the entire fuel system...................

I doubt the mystery oil is giving you the problem. If you've been cranking it a bunch trying to get it started, most of what you may have put in there has blown out of the cylinders by now.
The resistor/non-resistor plugs wouldn't give you an issue either....................I have ran both kinds, and never noticed any difference in how it runs.................

The most likely cause is a fuel issue/clogged carbs..............................Fuel is the enemy when it comes to long term storage

If you get some "Pops" when you introduce the starting fluid, then you have enough compression, and you have enough spark......................

[JoBrCo]

You were right Hooli, she needs Gas.  I primed each cylinder and she ran for about  5 seconds.  I don't understand it.  The petcock is new, set to prime; old fuel lines, but still pliable, no visible cracks, ensured no clogs in lines with air compressor, connected the two fuel lines to the inlets between carbs 1&2 and between carbs 3&4 ('85 FJ1100); I see no fuel leaks. The carbs have just been cleaned with new o-rings all around (Dave RaForths/Randy's SS screws & O-ring kit)  Tried Idle Mixture screws initially @ 3 full turns out, from all the way in (home).  Then tried 2.5 turns out from home.  I really can't understand why it's not getting fuel.

Mixture screws, screwed out, means more fuel, right?  When I started the carb clean I noted that 1-3 were all at 3 full turns out from home, while 4 was 4 full turns from home.  However I set it for 3 full turns, then 2.5, just like the rest of them, thinking that the last shop I took it to didn't do a good clean on 4, while I did.  I soaked them for at least 3 hours each, number two I did over night (passed out; no beer, no, just tired) and now the carb body is no longer shiny, kind of dull.  I used that caustic Berryman's, (it's all I had, limited funds).  I took out the throttle shaft and seals first. Only aluminum alloy went into the Berryman's. Next time, with more money, I'll use ultrasonic, but I got to deal with now.  I'm thinking about rigging up a temp fuel tank from an old lawn mower tomorrow, bypassing the petcock entirely.  The funny thing is that I actually had fuel dripping out of carb bowls 1 & 4, when I loosened the bowl screws (the one for the drain).  I'm really perplexed right about now.

The tank was cleaned of rust with rusteco, flushed with water until it ran clear, then air dried with compressor, then 1 cup oil added and shook around until it was completely coated on the inside. The fuel I used for the prime, came out of the tank, so not too much oil is in the fuel.  It's just not getting fuel for some reason.  If I'm not mistaken, I had this problem over 20 years ago, the petcock's prime position, not really being much of a primer. Anyone else notice this, or am I just making this up, (faded memories)?

One more thing, all throttle valves are currently completely closed, the idle adjustment screw with the notches for a long screwdriver so you don't get burnt is not even touching the cam shaped throttle cable spheroid <-did you like that) If you don't know what it's called, describe it!

TIA

FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

I may not be up to date with all your posts, so I might have missed some info, but you mentioned that it ran great when you put it in storage 19yrs ago.................................

Have you pulled these carbs apart and thoroughly cleaned the insides of each one before trying to bring her back to life?

Storing a motor vehicle for that length of time, then trying to get it running, usually begins with alot of frustration...............Unless you went to GREAT LENGTHS to immaculately store it properly, and removed ALL TRACES of fuel completely from the entire fuel system...................

I doubt the mystery oil is giving you the problem. If you've been cranking it a bunch trying to get it started, most of what you may have put in there has blown out of the cylinders by now.
The resistor/non-resistor plugs wouldn't give you an issue either....................I have ran both kinds, and never noticed any difference in how it runs.................

The most likely cause is a fuel issue/clogged carbs..............................Fuel is the enemy when it comes to long term storage

If you get some "Pops" when you introduce the starting fluid, then you have enough compression, and you have enough spark......................

Thanks Firebird but It's not getting fuel and I don't know why.  No not messing with your nym, I've been giving everyone shortened nyms, because I type like crap, slow as christmas!  Consider it kind of a nick name for your pseudonym.

Thanks for the resistor plug bit, I hope I'm OK mixing them, that's what I was worried about, and it seems that you have covered that.

Really appreciate your time, my friend!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[Pat Conlon]

Flipping the tank works on the fuel pump bikes, but when I tried to do it with my '84, it didn't flow correctly because the tank (flipped) sat slightly lower on the subframe...

My conclusion, or theory, is that gravity flow bikes are very particular.

I use a Motion Pro auxiliary fuel tank hung off my ceiling to assure a gravity flow on my '84, never a problem.

[oldktmdude]

   I know you said that you've cleaned your carbs but did you clean out the choke circuits in the float bowel housing? These are sometimes very difficult to clear. Very small holes at the base of the bowels are not so easy to clean. Without this circuit functioning properly you will have great difficulty in starting your bike. I know from first hand experience.
   If that's not your problem, I think Pats' on the money.  Regards, Pete.

[JPaganel]

I have the OEM air box so it's a pain in the ass getting in there to check,

I have to laugh.

FJ is the easiest of the Yamaha inline fours to get the carbs on and off.

If you take out the two bolts holding the rear subframe on the sides and drop it a little, the airbox comes out easy as pie, and the carbs follow. Other bikes with one-piece frames are far more of a pain.

[ribbert]

I have the OEM air box so it's a pain in the ass getting in there to check,

I have to laugh.

FJ is the easiest of the Yamaha inline fours to get the carbs on and off.

If you take out the two bolts holding the rear subframe on the sides and drop it a little, the airbox comes out easy as pie, and the carbs follow. Other bikes with one-piece frames are far more of a pain.

Take the above advice seriously, it makes that much difference.
Unlikely, but I have come across this recently, the rubbers from the air box are eccentric (below) and if rotated will not line up with the carbies, making the job even harder. Make sure the pointer is between the lugs as shown in the photo.



Noel

[JoBrCo]

PAT:

My conclusion, or theory, is that gravity flow bikes are very particular.

I concur, I shall be using something else instead, Thanks!

OldKTM:

but did you clean out the choke circuits in the float bowel housing?

No, I screwed up.  Some time ago a mech at a shop asked me if I wanted him to affix the gaskets to the float bowls so it would be easy to adjust the float height, I said sure. So I didn't want to buy new gaskets instead preserving the old ones, they're perfectly fine, anyway I didn't submerge the bowls in the cleaner, just did a quickie with carb cleaner in a can, and there was some obvious nasty varnish in two of them, I bet in all of them, I'll address that today, Thanks!

JP:

If you take out the two bolts holding the rear subframe on the sides and drop it a little, the airbox comes out easy as pie, and the carbs follow.

And this shall make it easy to do the above bowl clean-out, Thanks!

Rib:

Make sure the pointer is between the lugs as shown in the photo

Thanks buddy, but I've already been privy to that snafu.  Usually I'm pretty observant, and catch things like that, asking myself, "...and what are these things for, oh I see, this matches with that, perfect sense."  I actually look for patterns on washers and such to match them up with nuts, bolts, position, etc.  Thanks for your time, my Aussie friend, did I mention I've been to both Perth and Sydney? Great country, unfortunately I didn't have the time to really check everything out!, Next time!

Thanks guys, much food for thought, I now have confidence that she'll run today!

Have a good one, All!


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo 

[JoBrCo]

OK, cleaning out the bowls choke circuits, (they were completely closed with varnish) and raising the tank, (might have had a kinked hose), allowed her to start, running pretty smooth on all four, (just eyeballed the bench sync), but now it would seem that as it comes up to temp it burns oil, also disturbing is that the sync gauge isn't even registering, okay barely.  Seems like she over heats in a few minutes, then the rpm's start running away, so I have to shut her off, to cool, now have a 26" box fan blowing on the engine.

The sync gauge is a Carbtune Pro II.  The instructions said to install the included flow restrictors, so the indicators didn't bounce erratically, precluding the ability to sync.  The holes in the restrictors are about the diameter of a straight pin shaft and about 5/8" long.  I got them in there, but I'm thinking on removing them so I can get a reading.

The oil burn, I hope, is due to that, which is in the fuel, and/or the cylinders are fighting one another, cured by the sync?

She's cool by now so I'm going back down to try some of my ideas mentioned above.  Let me know if you think I'm having a bigger problem.  Like maybe being stored outdoors in four seasons, sometimes as low as 0°F and sometimes 100°F.  Maybe somethings tweaked or bolts worked loose with 19 years of that type of storage. 


TIA


P.S. Rodent nest material blew out of one of the mufflers, I knew those little bastards made her their home.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo 

[FJ_Hooligan]

The sync gauge may not register until the choke is shut off completely.

[Pat Conlon]

....and you can easily overheat your engine if you let it idle too long.