Torque spec for OEM, caliper half, joining bolts?

[JoBrCo]

As soon as I bought my 85 FJ1100NC in 85 I ordered a genuine Yamaha service manual but I got a FJ1100L/LC instead of a FJ1100N/NC.  The clerk assured me that there was no difference between the 1984 L/LC and 1985 N/NC so I accepted it, because he added that the N/NC was too new, that it's manual wasn't in print yet, or that Yamaha reserved the few available for authorized dealers/repair shops.

So I assume this manual does not show the torque value for the two bolts that hold the two halves of the caliper together, because it's of slightly different design, NO?

Anyway, does anyone know the proper torque spec for those two bolts?

TIA


JoBrCo

P.S. Randy, thanks for the speedy shipping on the pistons. 

FJ Forever! 

[Fj.itis]

Im of no help but i just tightened them as hard as i could while they were on the bench. Done 2500 km with no probs at all.

[FJ_Hooligan]

I think the Haynes or Clymer manual give it as 25 ft-lb.  The GYSM does not recommend splitting the calipers.  Yamaha doesn't offer a replacement seal for the halves. 

BUT, I have seen a guy using a torque wrench strip one out because the long torque wrench had too much lever arm (repaired with Helicoils).  Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

There were minimal changes between the '84 and '85.  Not enough to justify writing a whole new manual.  The one update I specifically recall reading about was a slight change to the piston wrist pin location to reduce noise.

[JoBrCo]

Im of no help but i just tightened them as hard as i could while they were on the bench. Done 2500 km with no probs at all.

Thanks Fj.itis, I appreciate your time and energy, though when working with aluminum, I fear one of us may be a Gorilla relative to the other, our built in torque wrench's measuring in different units.  But that shall be my last resort!

So I take it everyone is in the same boat as me, in the dark, as to Yamaha's recommended torque value.

Any qualified Yamaha service technicians out there; Randy?

I just love picking at his brain, it's so juicy! 


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[FJ1100mjk]

Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

Noel (Ribbert) is going to be all over you for that statement! 

P.S., the shady tree garage torque procedure you've provided is exactly what I did on all 12 caliper bolts on two of my FJ's when I went through their calipers. No issues.

[JoBrCo]

I think the Haynes or Clymer manual give it as 25 ft-lb.  The GYSM does not recommend splitting the calipers.  Yamaha doesn't offer a replacement seal for the halves.  

BUT, I have seen a guy using a torque wrench strip one out because the long torque wrench had too much lever arm (repaired with Helicoils).  Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

There were minimal changes between the '84 and '85.  Not enough to justify writing a whole new manual.  The one update I specifically recall reading about was a slight change to the piston wrist pin location to reduce noise.

Thanks Hooli,

I noticed that.  Mine are still pliable, though stiff, no cracks, though there was a little glazing that I scraped off with an x-acto knife, not as if to slice, rather a backwards scraping motion.  I did that so as to ensure a good rubber to aluminum seal, verified that their thickness was greater than the depth of their locating step, so as to be compressed. Covered them in clean fluid to ensure a vacuum seal and potentially make them more supple.

I noticed the torque wrench problem, earlier when I was torquing the banjos on the master cylinders, but I think it's a cheap (Harbor Freight) torque wrench design.  It's one of those that clicks when value is reached.  I think it's having a problem releasing after a previous torque at 60 ft lbs, far too great for banjos at 19 ft lbs, so I used an old metal rod flex pointer type wrench. Thank god my elbow torque wrench screamed, "TOO MUCH, TOO MUCH,"  It was indeed over-torqued, but not beyond no return.  Maybe I should oil the inside of the wrench so it's more likely to release from previously set higher values, not a good situation!

Money is an issue, otherwise I'd own the dial type, and have them calibrated annually.

[JoBrCo]

Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

Noel (Ribbert) is going to be all over you for that statement! 

P.S., the shady tree garage torque procedure you've provided is exactly what I did on all 12 caliper bolts on two of my FJ's when I went through their calipers. No issues.

Thanks, FJ1100mjk, that resolve seems to be the popular consensus, because Yamaha decided we had no need to know.  I'm thinking 25 ft lbs with the more reliable pointer torque wrench, because the bolts are much the same as the caliper mounting bolts.

[Capn Ron]

For general guidelines on torque...where specs are not available, you can refer to any one of several bolt torque charts such as this one which specifically addresses aluminum:



There are a pile of them out there...this one addresses standard or fine thread pitch, plated or unplated and bolt grade as well:



There are even apps for your phone that let you plug in all the variables and will give you a recommended torque spec.

I'll add that if you are using a torque wrench that you can't trust to indicate when proper torque is reached, all bets are off and there's not much sense in even knowing the proper spec.

[FJ_Hooligan]

GYSM and Haynes both say to NOT split the calipers.

Although my Clymer is usually the last choice when needing to consult a manual, this time I agree with them about splitting the caliper when cleaning and service beyond simply replacing pads is necessary.

Torque is 25 ft-lb.  On my last caliper rebuild, I hand tightened the assembly bolts then bolted the calipers back to their mounts on the forks (much better than clamping them in a vise) and hand torqued them with my ratchet.

I have several torque wrenches from Craftsman and Harbor Freight in both clicker and beam styles.  For small stuff, I trust my hand.  The long lever arm of a typical torque wrench can sometimes reduce the feel too much for my liking.  The T wrench comes out for wheel axles, swingarm pivots and critical engine assemblies/ head and case bolts.

[FJ_Hooligan]

Noel (Ribbert) is going to be all over you for that statement! 

There's always the old racer's rule of thumb:

"Tighten it until you feel the threads give, then back off 1/8th turn"

[JoBrCo]

For general guidelines on torque...where specs are not available, you can refer to any one of several bolt torque charts such as this one which specifically addresses aluminum:

Capn Ron, thanks for the great generic torque charts. Great stuff.

I'll add that if you are using a torque wrench that you can't trust to indicate when proper torque is reached, all bets are off and there's not much sense in even knowing the proper spec.

With this line, sarcasm or humor?

I have two FtLb torque wrench's, a click and a beam type, but want to get a dial type (expensive but very accurate) The click type is the one I was relying upon, but proved it could not be trusted at a lower value, after previously setting a higher value.  The beam variety couldn't possibly have that type problem, there is no setting, just reading, though they're less accurate. In this case I'd rather use it so as to not over torque, because it's better to under torque, yes?

[JoBrCo]

GYSM and Haynes both say to NOT split the calipers.

Although my Clymer is usually the last choice when needing to consult a manual, this time I agree with them about splitting the caliper when cleaning and service beyond simply replacing pads is necessary.

Torque is 25 ft-lb.  On my last caliper rebuild, I hand tightened the assembly bolts then bolted the calipers back to their mounts on the forks (much better than clamping them in a vise) and hand torqued them with my ratchet.

I have several torque wrenches from Craftsman and Harbor Freight in both clicker and beam styles.  For small stuff, I trust my hand.  The long lever arm of a typical torque wrench can sometimes reduce the feel too much for my liking.  The T wrench comes out for wheel axles, swingarm pivots and critical engine assemblies/ head and case bolts.

I agree Hooli! I'm rebuilding them, replacing both pistons and seals, so separating the two halves is the only way to truly inspect and clean them thoroughly.  If need be, the seals between the two halves could be manufactured in several ways, but I won't need to.

[ribbert]

Noel (Ribbert) is going to be all over you for that statement! 

There's always the old racer's rule of thumb:

"Tighten it until you feel the threads give, then back off 1/8th turn"

BUT, I have seen a guy using a torque wrench strip one out because the long torque wrench had too much lever arm (repaired with Helicoils).  Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

Im of no help but i just tightened them as hard as i could while they were on the bench.

Noel

[FJscott]

Noel (Ribbert) is going to be all over you for that statement! 

There's always the old racer's rule of thumb:

"Tighten it until you feel the threads give, then back off 1/8th turn"

BUT, I have seen a guy using a torque wrench strip one out because the long torque wrench had too much lever arm (repaired with Helicoils).  Just use a standard 3/8th drive ratchet and tighten them until they feel tight enough.

Im of no help but i just tightened them as hard as i could while they were on the bench.

Noel

I spot torque the fasteners...torque until you see spots.

[ribbert]

So I take it everyone is in the same boat as me, in the dark, as to Yamaha's recommended torque value.

Any qualified Yamaha service technicians out there.....
JoBrCo

For Goodness sake, it's just a bolt in a hole!

Noel