FJ dies when in gear - side-stand switch circuit?

[Zwartie]

On my way home from the Southern Ontario Clinic, while riding along at traffic speed on the 401 (120+ km/h) my '92 died for about a second and then came back to life. I saw the tach drop to zero and then right back where it belonged and I continued riding event-free all the way home. That being said, it was a bit unnerving. This afternoon my wife and I were about to go for a ride to get dinner and about 1 km from home and this time in our subdivision the FJ sputtered again and finally died. I was able to nurse it home and unfortunately the ride was over. A quick bit of troubleshooting proved that it would only die when the bike was in gear - no problem in neutral. My first thought went to the side-stand switch so I unplugged it and ohmed it out - no problem with the switch. Circuit closed in the normal position and open when the switch is pressed in. Not even a bit flaky. I bypassed the switch and was still having the same problem (bike on a rear-wheel stand for testing) - when I put the bike in gear she would die. A bit of history - I recently removed the front fairing to have some work done on the bike. I've taken the fairing off numerous times so it is something I can do without too much thought. I checked the multi-pin connectors under the right-side panel and now the problem has seemed to magically disappear - I hate it when that happens. I checked for loose wires or anything shorting against the frame but nothing obvious. Tomorrow I am going to pick up a can of contact cleaner and spray all the pins on the connectors as a precautionary measure. I really get an uneasy feeling when it is an intermittent gremlin-like problem. Any recommendations on what to check would be greatly appreciated. Anything else in series with the side-stand switch that I should check or anything else that may cause this issue?

Thanks,

Zwartie

[FJ_Hooligan]

If it is definitely related to the transmission being in gear, then there's a potential open circuit in the sidestand circuit.  The switch may pass an ohm test, but there could be intermittent contact on a broken wire elsewhere.

As always, start with the easy stuff.  Pinched wire from the fairing R&R?

[Harvy]

Could also be the neutral detect circuit.......the wire is under the sprocket cover from memory, but I don't recall where it goes from there - i will take a look at the wiring diag tonight and see if there is a chance that is causing the issue.


Harvy

[Zwartie]

Hooligan / Harvy, thanks for the advice.

I removed the front sprocket cover the other night to check the wires and wasn't happy with the way I had previously routed them. They were precariously close to the chain and when I replaced the starter a few weeks ago I ran a couple of wires under the starter which I also didn't like. So I did some re-routing (which involved removing and re-installing the starter), and sprayed contact cleaner on on the connector pins including the connectors under the fairing. I did notice that one of the connectors under the fairing seemed like it had not been mated 100% as I didn't need to push down on the tab to unplug the two ends. Other than that, no smoking gun. I put her back together and she fired up and went into gear without dying. Went for a 15 minute test ride last night - no problems...yet. Still feel a bit uneasy about it as I would have preferred to have found an obvious cause. Will see how it goes...

Zwartie

[Pat Conlon]

Hey Ben, what worked for me was to narrow down the culprit.
As previously mentioned, check all connections and wires.

The sidestand switch is a normally closed switch...meaning when the stand is up (running condition) the switch plunger is extended (relaxed) it closes the circuit.
When you put the sidestand down (parked) the sidestand causes the switch plunger to retract and thus opens the circuit.

After you check the wires and connections, if you still have problems, take the sidestand switch out of the equation.
Do this by following the 2 switch wires up the left side and you will see a connector...on the engine side of the circuit are 2 male prongs. Jump these prongs together with a short piece of wire and 2 spade connectors. This will put the circuit in a closed position.

If your troubles go away, you have found your culprit, the sidestand switch.

This switch can drive you crazy with it's intermittent problems...one minute it works, next minute it doesn't..happening usually in the middle of traffic.

Hope this helps...

Oh yea...I forgot to mention...when you have the connector jumped...take extra care not to ride off with your sidestand down....DO NOT ASK.

[Zwartie]

Thanks for the tips Pat. As an electrician myself, I completely agree with your troubleshooting techniques. I went through all of it two nights ago and nothing jumps out as an obvious culprit. I too hate intermittent problems. I also hate the wiring diagrams they provide in the manuals. Wish it was written in a ladder format. I printed out a colour version that someone had posted in the maintenance section and it's much easier to follow - especially when blown up to 11 x 17 size. So far, so good. Rode the bike for 15 minutes last night and rode it to work and out for an errand at lunch today. Not even a hint of a problem. That being said, we're heading off for a 5-day ride to the Deal's Gap and back in a couple weeks so I will be bringing the usual assortment of tools which includes electrical tape, various crimp-on connectors and of course, a multimeter!

Thanks again,

Zwartie

[Pat Conlon]

Oh shit, you're a pro...I didn't know you're a sparky...yea, those workshop wiring diagrams were hard to read in my 20's, let alone in my 60's.

Ride well on your trip.

Cheers

[andyb]

Thanks for the tips Pat. As an electrician myself, I completely agree with your troubleshooting techniques. I went through all of it two nights ago and nothing jumps out as an obvious culprit. I too hate intermittent problems. I also hate the wiring diagrams they provide in the manuals. Wish it was written in a ladder format. I printed out a colour version that someone had posted in the maintenance section and it's much easier to follow - especially when blown up to 11 x 17 size.

If you ever get bored and redraw them in a non-stupid, readable format, please post them.  I detest the style they're in.

I did finally sit down with a huge box of highlighters and color mine.  It helps, but it isn't perfect.

[Zwartie]

Thought I would share this photo with the group. While troubleshooting the issue I had noticed that the wires running adjacent to the chain were precariously close; so close in fact that the heat-shrink tubing around the side-stand wires had been worn away by the chain. I cut back the tubing and verified that the wire insulation had remained untouched. If anyone is working on the chain or has reason to remove the front sprocket cover, I suggest you check the routing of those wires. I have since rerouted them and secured them so there is enough clearance.



Zwartie

[movenon]

Thought I would share this photo with the group. While troubleshooting the issue I had noticed that the wires running adjacent to the chain were precariously close; so close in fact that the heat-shrink tubing around the side-stand wires had been worn away by the chain. I cut back the tubing and verified that the wire insulation had remained untouched. If anyone is working on the chain or has reason to remove the front sprocket cover, I suggest you check the routing of those wires. I have since rerouted them and secured them so there is enough clearance.



Zwartie

Nice tip on things to check doing a good annual inspection.  Problems like metal fatigue, chafing of wires, corrosion in switch's and connectors etc. should be added to the inspection list for these 20-30 year old bikes.  I found a connector that had overheated coming from the alternator.  It looked good outside but inside there were signs of overheating.

George