91 fj12. Fuel coming out of fuel drain lines after ride.

[Easterntide]

Just came in from a cold 1hr ride (+3c).  Pulled into the garage and noticed a significant amount of fuel dripping out of each of the three drain hoses that are under the bike.  Saw some in the wet driveway as well from where I pulled in and turned around.
This bike is new to me and I'm learning as I go but this is concerning.

Any comments or thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[dougrs]

Just came in from a cold 1hr ride (+3c).  Pulled into the garage and noticed a significant amount of fuel dripping out of each of the three drain hoses that are under the bike.  Saw some in the wet driveway as well from where I pulled in and turned around.
This bike is new to me and I'm learning as I go but this is concerning.

Any comments or thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

My bike would leak fuel at times... I replaced the needle seat o-rings, all the o-rings in the fuel delivery and vent lines in the carbs and adjusted the float height to the proper level and my bike stopped leaking. If you are going into the carbs for any reason since the bike is new to you, clean everything and replace all the o-rings and best to replace all bolts with the allen head set from RPM. Do everything right with the carbs the first time and you won't have to pull them off the bike multiple times....

[red]

Just came in from a cold 1hr ride (+3c).  Pulled into the garage and noticed a significant amount of fuel dripping out of each of the three drain hoses that are under the bike.  Saw some in the wet driveway as well from where I pulled in and turned around.
This bike is new to me and I'm learning as I go but this is concerning.
Any comments or thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

Easterntide,

Check that the crankcase is not overfull of oil now.  See if the oil filler (inlet) smells like gasoline in there.  Do NOT attempt to start the engine, if so, because you could do serious damage to the engine.  Working outside in the open air, siphon most of the gasoline out of the tank, into an extra gas can.  Find the fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel filter, disconnect it, and plug the fuel line.   Seal the gas cap, and store the empty gas tank someplace safe outside, under a rain shelter.  The fuel pump should block fuel flow when the key is OFF, and it is not doing that now.  There is more to know, but that much is important, right now.

Yeah, the carbs will need attention, as said earlier, and you may need a new fuel pump as well.  For now, the gas in the tank can cause a serious problem.  Drain the tank, and plug the fuel line.  Store the tank safely outside.  Check back when the carbs are done.  You can use an aftermarket electric fuel pump (the OEM units cost a fortune), and people here know what you will need.

Red

[dougrs]

Just came in from a cold 1hr ride (+3c).  Pulled into the garage and noticed a significant amount of fuel dripping out of each of the three drain hoses that are under the bike.  Saw some in the wet driveway as well from where I pulled in and turned around.
This bike is new to me and I'm learning as I go but this is concerning.
Any comments or thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

Easterntide,

Check that the crankcase is not overfull of oil now.  See if the oil filler (inlet) smells like gasoline in there.  Do NOT attempt to start the engine, if so, because you could do serious damage to the engine.  Working outside in the open air, siphon most of the gasoline out of the tank, into an extra gas can.  Find the fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel filter, disconnect it, and plug the fuel line.   Seal the gas cap, and store the empty gas tank someplace safe outside, under a rain shelter.  The fuel pump should block fuel flow when the key is OFF, and it is not doing that now.  There is more to know, but that much is important, right now.

Yeah, the carbs will need attention, as said earlier, and you may need a new fuel pump as well.  For now, the gas in the tank can cause a serious problem.  Drain the tank, and plug the fuel line.  Store the tank safely outside.  Check back when the carbs are done.  You can use an aftermarket electric fuel pump (the OEM units cost a fortune), and people here know what you will need.

Red

My fuel pump failed and drained 3 gallons of gas into the garage... take the above advice seriously.

[Easterntide]

well crap!
ok.
i'll order a new KL fuel pump for it today (http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-L-Supply-18-4615-Universal-Fuel-Pump-Point-Switch-Kit-/331113484768?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AYamaha|Model%3AFJ1200&hash=item4d17e6d1e0&vxp=mtr).

it was leaking very very gently from the petcock but i have a replacement coming in from RPM for that.
i've already had the tank off/on a few times so tonight i'll unbutton it and leave it sit.

so. i'll verify that the crankcase is not 'overfull' and that it smells like oil instead of fuel correct?
i've contacted a local guy to see if he can sort my carbs out.

else?

and thanks again!

[movenon]

well crap!
ok.
i'll order a new KL fuel pump for it today (http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-L-Supply-18-4615-Universal-Fuel-Pump-Point-Switch-Kit-/331113484768?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AYamaha|Model%3AFJ1200&hash=item4d17e6d1e0&vxp=mtr).

it was leaking very very gently from the petcock but i have a replacement coming in from RPM for that.
i've already had the tank off/on a few times so tonight i'll unbutton it and leave it sit.

so. i'll verify that the crankcase is not 'overfull' and that it smells like oil instead of fuel correct?
i've contacted a local guy to see if he can sort my carbs out.

else?

and thanks again!

If your fuel pump check valve is not working the the points kit will not resolve the problem.  The check valve is a mechanical disk inside the Mitsubishi pump. That can not be repaired.  

I would first pull the carbs, inspect, clean or replace the needle and seats plus the O rings and adjust the floats.  If your bike was leaking right after using it even if the pump was working correctly you bowls will still be pressurized a little and can leak until the pressure is reduced.

Depending how comfortable you are with the carbs there are some other things that you could do while they are off.  Have you worked on carbs before?
Randy at RPM has a good selection of carb parts.  http://www.rpmracingca.com/products.asp?cat=24.

George

[Easterntide]

George et al,
Thanks for the input.

I've no carb experience at all. i've ordered a fistful of parts from RPM but until last night carbs/fuel leaks were not part of the equation. I don't want to but may end up taking it to the local yamaha shop and pay the exorbitant prices if i can't find a local carb guy (seems tough to do up in Atlantic Canada....).

is there a specific non OEM pump that is recommended (haven't done a search of the forum yet.).

Don

[movenon]

Yes there are other pumps that can be installed. They sometimes require slight modifications to fit. 

But I would not buy a pump yet from what you describe. Fix the carbs first. They are not hard to work on but I don't know your situation or anything about how you feel about working on them.  Do you have some basic tools and a space to work on them?  Are you comfortable with it?  On the internet it is hard to know what these answers. Like I said it isn't hard, it just takes time, desire, a few tools and some information.. Information we got plenty of.
George

[Easterntide]

well i've got a good chunk of tools but not sure whats specifically required. my garage has a nice workbench and some good lighting.

most of my work has been on bicycles (of all types and sorts) over the last 25 years. now being back into motor power its a new world for me.  I'm about to do the petcock/filter/spin on oil filter and rear bmw shock mod (as soon as the parts arrive...).

wouldn't attempt shims/valves at this point however.

i'm a 47yr old carb virgin though :-)

fwiw i do hear the pump spin up when i turn the key, and once i had drained the tank and removed it, the pump worked for a bit to pull fuel out. i THINK its working as it should.

[movenon]

The fuel pump will run for around 5 seconds after you turn on the ignition switch.  If CDI senses no crankshaft movement from the ignition pick up the pump will turn off.   If the engine is cranking or running the pump will run as required.  Just for familiarization the ignition pick up coil is located on the left side under the cover plate with "YAMAHA" engraved on it. That's just for information only...

Now back to the pump. One test is with the fuel tank at least 3/4 full, remove the fuel line on the output side of the pump, there will be some dribble. Clean it up and monitor for a hour or so to see if any fuel is leaking.  With the power off of coarse.....  And monitor.. Running a hose into a catch container isn't a bad idea. No smoking please 

George

[red]

fwiw i do hear the pump spin up when i turn the key, and once i had drained the tank and removed it, the pump worked for a bit to pull fuel out. i THINK its working as it should.

Easterntide,

The fuel pump has two jobs, both critical.  With power applied, it should pump fuel, of course.  With power off, it should stop fuel from siphoning out of the tank.  You may just have some dirt in the fuel pump, which is causing the internal check valve to leak.  Working outside again, have the fuel pump deliver a quart (liter) or two of gasoline from the tank into an extra gas can.  Maybe this flowing gasoline will clean out the check valve, and let it seal again.  If the fuel pump resumes blocking the flow of fuel when power is off (reliably), then the pump is okay again, and it just had some dirt in there.  If the fuel pump dribbles gasoline constantly when the power is off, then you need a new fuel pump (even if it pumps fuel as you would expect).

The carbs are your second line of defense, here.  In great condition, they can stop fuel from overfilling the float bowls, and then the engine, with gasoline.  However, the first time the carbs fail at stopping the fuel flow, you can have liquid gasoline getting into your cylinders, and into the crankcase.  The gasoline in the oil will ruin the oil, of course, but that is a fairly minor matter, just needing an oil change.  However, if a cylinder fills with gasoline, liquids do not compress.  The starter will try to crank the engine, but the engine will be in a "hydraulic lock" and serious engine damage will result.  That is why the smell of gasoline in the crankcase is bad news, there.  With the tank off, you avoid this real risk, as well as the serious risk of dumping a lot of gasoline on the garage floor.

Fix the carbs, sure, and check the fuel pump for the ability to block fuel, when no power is applied.  With good carbs and a good fuel pump, your bike will be golden again.

If you need a replacement fuel pump, the OEM fuel pump is expensive.  The correct aftermarket automotive fuel pumps will do the job as well, for far less money.

Cheers,
Red

[simi_ed]

Don, be brave/smart & try it yourself.  You'll learn a ton about how your FJ works and how to work on it too.  No real exotic tools required, except perhaps an impact driver http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-reversible-impact-driver-set-93481.html to get out the old shitty screws.  You can also try the Acetone/ATF (50/50) penetrating oil on any stuck screws.  When you order the screw kit from Randy, get some #40 pilot jets at the same time.  You'll be real glad when you feel the dramatic improvement.

If you take to the local stealer,
A.) they will probably refuse to do the job 'cause your FJ is too old.
B.) They WILL charge you WAY TOO MUCH $$$.
C.) They WILL do a crappy job.
D.) They won't stand behind their work when it doesn't run as well as you expect.

IF you're gonna farm this job out, the only person I'd trust is RPM-Randy. Or someone on this list that has done the job and will help you.

My 2¢

[movenon]

I am with ED on the issue. If you decide to do it then let us know. We can help you through the process. Check out the file section on carbs. There is some good reading there to get you started.
George

[baldy3853]

Don
Don't know what sort of service you receive in your part of the country but if you can afford  to be without the bike for a couple of weeks I would send them to Randy he will clean them and replace all the need parts for a very modest fee and then mail them back, all you have to then is put them in and ride away no need to do a balance on them.
If you do the job yourself you will need to do a carbie balance as well as clean and replace all of the bits,
so easy drain wrap them up in something to protect them and post them simple!!!

[Easterntide]

First of all thanks to all who've replied w sincerely useful and positive comments. its nice to find a forum that actually is helpful and motivating!
Secondly, i found a local general motorcycle mechanic who came to my home the same night and tore the carbs out, reduced them one by one to bare bones, cleaned a good amount of dirt and skudge out and then rebuilt them...all w me sitting on his shoulder.
Two hours of effort/lots of patience putting the bits back together and showed and explained to me the whole time....for 50$.

we started it after and it ran. no fuel leaked (bike didn't get warmed up though).
tonight i'll take it for a proper ride and verify that it was in fact hopefully the solution.

also i'll grab some Seafoam and run that through as i'm sure it won't hurt.

after seeing his work i know that i can do what he did in a tear down and rebuild. some learn by doing, and others learn by watching...i'm in the later.

again, thanks.