89 FJ1200 engine and gearbox rebuild

[Joe Sull]

Great, Great pics  You are going beyond my experience with this engine work and it's a real treat to see what your doing. I thought that there would be camshaft bearing. What happens if there was ware on the journals, the head would have to be replaced?

Can't wait to see whats next.      

[DeltaFlyer]

...What happens if there was ware on the journals, the head would have to be replaced?

Can't wait to see whats next.      

Good question.

I don't know.

[andyb]

What does that shift kit do for the bike? ...would you happen to have a link to any info about it?

If it's like one of these it makes shifts a bit more positive, almost a notchy feel.

[Pat Conlon]

Hello Gabe, we have discussed using APE cylinder studs in the past, and the engine builders have advised against it.
Here is the thread: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=479.msg20551

Sand, clean and paint your existing studs and call it a day. Upgraded valve springs, however, are recommended.

All your engine parts, as well a expert advice, is available from Randy @ RPM.

[movenon]

What does that shift kit do for the bike? ...would you happen to have a link to any info about it?

If it's like one of these it makes shifts a bit more positive, almost a notchy feel.

That's what I have, still on the shelf to be installed.  As to if it helps or is any better, I don't know until I install it. Just tying the best with what I have.

Here is a excellent read on a clutch mod. I did this awhile back and would recommend it.  Not to expensive or hard to do and if you are in that area it is a good time to inspect the disks anyhow.  Wish I would have had the shift kit on hand when I did that but I didn't.  Up grading the pressure plate gives a lot better feel at the lever.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0

http://www.fj1200.info/Home.htm

Thanks keep up the pictures and information.  As noted Randy at RPM is probably the best person help you when it comes to engines. The pictures will help him and others to comment on.

When I do my top end I hadn't thought about just pulling the engine completely out but I do see value in it.  There are some rubber grommets that I should also replace in engine mounts anyhow.

Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.
george

[Pat Conlon]

Gabe, Re: Transmission jumping out of gear; also to consider, along with new shifting forks (a must) is a gear cluster with the dogs backcut....Also available from RPM.
Plug and play...a permanent solution.

[movenon]

...advanced the ignition about 3 degrees...

DeltaFlyer:  Keep up the good work !! Some of us need the education  
George

Thanks for the words of encouragement, George.

about the timing advance, what difference, if any, did you notice after that mod? I've read good things about it and am considering it if it's worth the effort.

About the timing adjustment. The FJ has 5 degree's built into it I think.  There is a +4 degree advance rotor than you can buy.  Or you can just slot the rear mounting plate so it is adjustable.  I slotted mine go give me 7 degrees of adjustment (near as I can measure). That's where I started.
at +7 degrees it ran worse.  That would be 12 degrees total initial advance.
at about +4 degrees it ran OK but would ping slightly depending on the temp, gas quality and load. (9 degree's total initial)
at about  +3 degrees it runs the best it ever has. So that is where I am leaving it. (8 degrees total initial).

Can I say it made much difference.  For me no.  But I don't have a oil temp read out and no way of lap timing it on a track and I don't keep track of my MPG. I can't help but think adding 2 or 3 degrees to a older machine is all that bad.  It is an easy mod to do and free and you can always put it back to the original setting. The aftermarket rotors that come up for sale once in a while are set at 4 degrees.  You accomplish the same by slotting the rear mounting plate for free.

Here is a couple of links on how to do it. I am happy with just adding +3 degrees in my basically stock engine.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4292.0

http://www.fj1200.info/carbtuning.htm

The factory service manual indicates that you are OK if you stay within the 2 marks. You need a old timing light.
George

[DeltaFlyer]

Hello Gabe, we have discussed using APE cylinder studs in the past, and the engine builders have advised against it.
Here is the thread: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=479.msg20551

Sand, clean and paint your existing studs and call it a day. Upgraded valve springs, however, are recommended.

All your engine parts, as well a expert advice, is available from Randy @ RPM.

Thanks for the heads up. 

see, that's why this place is such a gold mine.

[DeltaFlyer]

Gabe, Re: Transmission jumping out of gear; also to consider, along with new shifting forks (a must) is a gear cluster with the dogs backcut....Also available from RPM.
Plug and play...a permanent solution.

New forks and gear cluster already ordered from Randy.  

[DeltaFlyer]

Gabe, Re: Transmission jumping out of gear; also to consider, along with new shifting forks (a must) is a gear cluster with the dogs backcut....Also available from RPM.
Plug and play...a permanent solution.

Already ordered the new shifting forks (all three) and the gear cluster from Randy. 

[DeltaFlyer]

...advanced the ignition about 3 degrees...

DeltaFlyer:  Keep up the good work !! Some of us need the education  
George

Thanks for the words of encouragement, George.

about the timing advance, what difference, if any, did you notice after that mod? I've read good things about it and am considering it if it's worth the effort.

About the timing adjustment. The FJ has 5 degree's built into it I think.  There is a +4 degree advance rotor than you can buy.  Or you can just slot the rear mounting plate so it is adjustable.  I slotted mine go give me 7 degrees of adjustment (near as I can measure). That's where I started.
at +7 degrees it ran worse.  That would be 12 degrees total initial advance.
at about +4 degrees it ran OK but would ping slightly depending on the temp, gas quality and load. (9 degree's total initial)
at about  +3 degrees it runs the best it ever has. So that is where I am leaving it. (8 degrees total initial).

Can I say it made much difference.  For me no.  But I don't have a oil temp read out and no way of lap timing it on a track and I don't keep track of my MPG. I can't help but think adding 2 or 3 degrees to a older machine is all that bad.  It is an easy mod to do and free and you can always put it back to the original setting. The aftermarket rotors that come up for sale once in a while are set at 4 degrees.  You accomplish the same by slotting the rear mounting plate for free.

Here is a couple of links on how to do it. I am happy with just adding +3 degrees in my basically stock engine.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4292.0

http://www.fj1200.info/carbtuning.htm

The factory service manual indicates that you are OK if you stay within the 2 marks. You need a old timing light.
George

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I have enough going on at the moment so I'll leave the ignition advance mod alone for now. I can always come back to it once this rebuilt engine is sorted out.

[DeltaFlyer]

The studs... I'm still unclear on the best procedure.

I have one stud that came out of the crank case and still has the nut attached.

I'll try gripping that one in the vice with the soft jaws and remove the nut. Once that's out, how tight does it have to go back into the crank case? ...and how do I grip it so as to tighten it?

Perhaps I can torque it down using a head nut then somehow grip the stud and remove the nut.

Or should I just replace the stud?

As for the corroded studs, clean and paint them.... but I can do that with them in the crank case, right? i.e. no need to remove them from the crank case?


Sorry for all the newbie questions, I want to get this right the first time.

Cheers,
Gabe.

[Pat Conlon]

Remove the stuck nut. Clean the threads.
Double nut the stud....lock the two nuts together. With the nuts locked, use the top nut to torque in the stud.
Now, unlock the nuts....

[fj1289]

...What happens if there was ware on the journals, the head would have to be replaced?

Can't wait to see whats next.      

Good question.

I don't know.

The head can be line bored.  You end up with a couple half moon "plugs" to install -- very similar to the Kawasaki KZ900/1000/650 engines.   Very doubtful you will need to tough.  Either way, Randy at RPM is yor go-to for advice and parts.

Good job on the write up and good luck on the project!

Chris

[FJscott]

Regarding the stud that came out and whether or not to replace it, how hard did it come out? was it about the same amount of torque that was required to remove the others? reason being is if there is ANY chance that stud is compromised I would not chance it and possibly break it off in the crankcase when torqueing it down....replace it. if you don't have a Stud removal tool the double nut method works. the tool allows you to grip the stud closer to the case reducing twist on the stud. they are also a cheap and usefull tool.

Scott