SoCal Fix-Up: The Next Generation

[threejagsteve]

Well, five months ago, I had a bike that hadn't been started in 6 years; through my own blood, toil, tears, and sweat, and a lot of tips, hints, and encouragement from you guys here, I now I have an almost bone-stock FJ that's running just about as well as it ever did. But I've resisted almost all the tantalizing stuff I've learned about here and elsewhere, always pleading poverty.

It's now been a year since I got laid off and my wife and I saw our combined incomes reduced by almost 50%. Since my layoff, I've been adamant that we live within our new income, and we've managed. I'm not used to feeling poor but such is my lot right now, so I've grinned and borne it.

Last week the weather was nice and I wanted to go for a ride. But I couldn't, because until my wife got paid on Friday I didn't have a spare $10 for gas. Sure, I could have just charged it but that would have gone against the principle of living within our current means, so I didn't. That was one of the last straws.

Meanwhile, outside events have conspired in such a manner that I find myself on the brink of liquidating one of our rainy-day holdings. The amusing part of this (and the reason why I'm explaining the situation here) is that once the immediate and necessary reason is taken care of, I'll find myself with some extra money left over!

As has been frequently advised here and elsewhere, I tend to agree that at this point the best bang for my modification buck can be gotten from suspension upgrades. It's a rare occurrence when I get to use all the engine power I have now, after all! So motor improvements for the near future will be limited to the coil relay mod, slotting the pickup rotor, and raising the needles a tad. Those'll cost less than a tank of gas.

I'm still waiting for the right 3.5" front wheel to come along, and since I just did a basic fork upgrade (new seals, Progressive springs, and 15-wt. oil) and brakes ('02 R1), the wheel and a good brace are all else I'm planning for the front end right now. Those benefits I can use as soon as I get the parts.

Looking at the rear, of course my stock shock needs upgrading, and I'll do the 5.5" FZR1000 rear wheel mod so I can run good radials.

But before I do either of those, I need to make a decision about a swingarm swap, if any.

I like the prospect of the ~20-lb. weight savings of an aluminum swingarm; I also like the notion of a slightly shorter swingarm to decrease the wheelbase a little for better cornering. So since Frank's FZ1 swingarm swap is a little long for my purposes, I'm wondering... has anyone checked the suitability of an early '90s FZR1000 swingarm (the same one my wheel will come off)? Or might the FZ1 swingarm be shortened an inch or two? Or anyone know of another likely prospect?

Cheers, and TIA!

[rktmanfj]

I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.

I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.

Going to the YZF600r rear wheel saves ~6 lbs of unsprung weight out at the end of the the swingarm and that IS noticeable, and not nearly as much hassle.

The aluminum arms sure do look purty all polished up, though, right, Pat?

JMO,
Randy T
Indy

[threejagsteve]

I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.

You may be right, but after I posted that I got to looking at the (apparently a little shorter) Thunder Ace conversion on the FJ Mods site, and they did report slightly quicker handling. 'Course that may have been subjective...

I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.

Frank reported about 20 lb. weight savings after his mod; he may have been including savings from other changes, though.

Going to the YZF600r rear wheel saves ~6 lbs of unsprung weight out at the end of the the swingarm and that IS noticeable, and not nearly as much hassle.

How about the FZR1000 5.5 x 17 wheel?

I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.

You may be right, but after I posted that I got to looking at the (apparently a little shorter) Thunder Ace conversion on the FJ Mods site, and they did report slightly quicker handling. 'Course that may have been subjective...

I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.

Frank reported about 20 lb. weight savings after his FZ1 mod; he may have been including savings from other changes, though.

The aluminum arms sure do look purty all polished up, though, right, Pat?

Yeah, that and the underslung calipers were just a couple of the wheels turning in my head lately.

Thanks, Randy; although I don't think I'll be making any big decisions for a couple of weeks (at least) right now I'm kinda leaning toward doing the Thunder Ace mod and the 5.5 in. wheel with a 170/60.

[andyb]

I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.

It's subtle, but you can definitely tell the difference in a wheelbase change as small as 5/8".  Thing is, if you had 3 FJ's with different wheelbases, they'd have other things different between them, and that would influence your perception more, I think.

[rktmanfj]

I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.

It's subtle, but you can definitely tell the difference in a wheelbase change as small as 5/8".  Thing is, if you had 3 FJ's with different wheelbases, they'd have other things different between them, and that would influence your perception more, I think.

What I said...  no way to ever prove it for anyone, but the vast majority of riders wouldn't be able to tell.

If you say that you can, I guess you can.     

I don't think I could.

Randy T
Indy

[andyb]

Go from 17/40 to 17/42 gearing (or v/v) and take a turn coasting off throttle.  It's noticable, and that's about a 5/8" wheelbase change.  It's very minor though, like a small change in tire pressure is.

[Mark Olson]

Steve,

your next step is a penske shock.

check  out linderman engineering , they are in socal.

a new chain will shorten wheelbase 

personally I would just charged the gas and gone for a ride.

feed your soul.

[tqmx1]

Mark, Linderman is down in the south bay not L.A.

Kim

[racerman_27410]

that 20 lbs weight savings i reported was all the changes combined.... swingarm, forks, wheels and brakes

my biggest weight savings were the wheels.... as the early model FJ wheels are very heavy.

the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm but the FZ1 model was still beefier and lighter by a couple of lbs.

you can quicken the steering by raising the ride height and IMO everyone who has done a swingarm swap has also raised the ride height.


except for my latest ride out west i ride exclusively in the mountains ( mostly roads that are very narrow and extry twisty.....i've never had a problem with turning the motorcycle or thinking that the swingarm was too long   


KOokaloo!

[Mark Olson]

Mark, Linderman is down in the south bay not L.A.

Kim

uh ohh ,there goes my Alzheimer's again. along with my C.R.S. (can't remember shit). 

[threejagsteve]

your next step is a penske shock.

Agreed; it's at the top of the list! But before I place that order, I need to decide if I'm gonna do anything about the swingarm so that any necessary reconfiguration is "baked in".

check  out linderman engineering

I looked at their web site; prices seem a little on the high side. And then there'd be in-state sales tax, and shipping because they're almost 340 slab miles away. Likely I could do better getting it from one of the shops in AZ or NV. But thanks for letting me know they're there!

that 20 lbs weight savings i reported was all the changes combined.... swingarm, forks, wheels and brakes

Ah, so! It did seem like a lot from the swingarm alone, but apparently I misinterpreted.

the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm

I have a '91 with a steel swingarm - has anyone ever compared the weights of the later steel and the earlier alloy swingarms? I'm thinking that it might be relatively easy to transplant an early aluminum arm and save a few lb.

I might add here that I'm a middle-weight, about 185 right now, and I never carry enough luggage to matter and my wife has declared that her passengering days are over. Although I had concerns about a 600 arm being strong enough for a 1200, since I'm not planning a monster motor (yet ) I'm sure the stock arm is plenty beefy enough for my purposes. But a bit shorter WB would be nice, and weight savings is always good!

you can quicken the steering by raising the ride height and IMO everyone who has done a swingarm swap has also raised the ride height.

Although I may need to reexamine this when I know the diameter of the back wheel I eventually put on, I've already raised it 1 in. with shorter dogbones... any higher and I'd need to put a board under the centerstand to lube the chain, and there is the issue that you're also raising the CoG when you do raise the rear. And the fork tubes are 1/4 in. higher in the triples, adding a little more quickness to the steering and lowering the CoG slightly. I don't think I'd want to go further in that direction without shortening the WB. Too quick of steering and too long of WB and you can wind up with something that wants to high-side at the drop of a hat!


And thanks to everyone else who's weighed in - the wheels in my head keep turning!

Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!"

[racerman_27410]

Although I may need to reexamine this when I know the diameter of the back wheel I eventually put on, I've already raised it 1 in. with shorter dogbones... any higher and I'd need to put a board under the centerstand to lube the chain, and there is the issue that you're also raising the CoG when you do raise the rear. And the fork tubes are 1/4 in. higher in the triples, adding a little more quickness to the steering and lowering the CoG slightly. I don't think I'd want to go further in that direction without shortening the WB. Too quick of steering and too long of WB and you can wind up with something that wants to high-side at the drop of a hat!


And thanks to everyone else who's weighed in - the wheels in my head keep turning!

Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!"

You're going to have to go a lot further than you think to really mess up the FJ handling and turn it into a "high side machine" lol..... i've got my ride height so far up i would need a 4" block for my centerstand to do any good    By having adjustable ride height shock and adjustable dogbones i was able to set my FJ to launch/ handle just the way i wanted. A hard launch now for me equates to just a bit of wheelspin and the front tire about a foot off the ground.....time and space compressing very quickly in front of the bike.

  too high in the back and the rear tire will just break loose.... too low and the front end wants to come up.

See this is the beauty of modification.... the ability to make the machine into what you want it to be.... everyone has a different idea of "perfection" but there have been enough experiments done for us to have a pretty good handle on what will work well for most people


KOokaloo!

[threejagsteve]

You're going to have to go a lot further than you think to really mess up the FJ handling and turn it into a "high side machine" lol.....

Oh, I'm sure you're right, and I'm also sure that I'll like the handling a lot better when I have the proper 3.5 in. wheel for my 120/70 Sport Demon front tire. Right now, it feels like the front contact patch is about 1/4 in. wide! LOL

See this is the beauty of modification.... the ability to make the machine into what you want it to be.... everyone has a different idea of "perfection" but there have been enough experiments done for us to have a pretty good handle on what will work well for most people

Yes, and that's a big part of the reason that I'm not (too) embarrassed to run off at the mouth here, spitting out ideas like a 4th of July sparkler... Folks will say, "Tried that; it didn't work," or "Tried that; it worked but was too much time/money for the benefit," or "Tried that; it's great!" or maybe, "Hey, I haven't tried that - might be a good idea!"

Now, about that early alloy for late steel swingarm swap idea... anybody got a clue if it'd be worth it?

I might add that when I'm putting the new shock on, even if I don't do any swingarm mod, I'm planning to repack the swingarm bearings anyway - not that I have any particular reason to other than that it's an 18-year-old bike!

[andyb]

the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm

I have a '91 with a steel swingarm - has anyone ever compared the weights of the later steel and the earlier alloy swingarms? I'm thinking that it might be relatively easy to transplant an early aluminum arm and save a few lb.

I might add here that I'm a middle-weight, about 185 right now, and I never carry enough luggage to matter and my wife has declared that her passengering days are over. Although I had concerns about a 600 arm being strong enough for a 1200, since I'm not planning a monster motor (yet ) I'm sure the stock arm is plenty beefy enough for my purposes. But a bit shorter WB would be nice, and weight savings is always good!

I recall someone discussing the possibility of going from steel to aluminum swingarms on the late model FJ's.  It's probably doable, but you'll need all of the linkages as well as the shock, something about the entire setup being slightly different.  

There was a FJ with a rather lot of power that took a stock swingarm and twisted it (Johnny Cannon?) but he was up in the 150hp range if memory serves, and using a good deal of nitrous.

[threejagsteve]

There was a FJ with a rather lot of power that took a stock swingarm and twisted it (Johnny Cannon?) but he was up in the 150hp range if memory serves, and using a good deal of nitrous.

Well, at least it's good to know that the stock swingarm is good for 150 hp... likely that was BEFORE he hit the little red button!