SS brake line replacement

[Arnie]

Ok, I know that most bike makers who fit rubber brake lines recommend you replace them every 4 years.

So, all you FJ owners with original brake lines are on borrowed time.

What I don't know (one of many things :-) is; What is the replacement period for Stainless Steel braided brake lines?  Anyone KNOW ??

[ribbert]

Ok, I know that most bike makers who fit rubber brake lines recommend you replace them every 4 years.

So, all you FJ owners with original brake lines are on borrowed time.

I've always wondered about this concern of replacing brakes hoses. No one ever changes their car brake hoses and cars tend to do many more miles than bikes and stay on the road much longer. They also have a harder life.
I've seen them with the rubber hard and cracked, bits missing, frayed ends but I've never seen one let go unless it has been snagged on something or cut. I have seen a few weep.
I could show you cars tomorrow that are 40 years old with 750+ km's that have original hoses.

I don't know but I imagine the liners that carry the fluid are similar in both with just the outer sheath different. I know they say to change them but has anyone here actually had one fail with normal use and proper routing?

Noel

[aviationfred]

I got on the Galfer web site looking for a life cycle recommendation for their braided lines. I didn't find one, but the main thing I came away with from watching their brake line video is. The Galfer lines have an unlimited mileage lifetime warranty and the core lines are made of Teflon tubing.

I am going to have a WAG here and say that with an unlimited mileage lifetime warranty, that Galfer is saying that at least their lines should last the life of your motorcycle.

Fred

[andyb]

I've always wondered about this concern of replacing brakes hoses. No one ever changes their car brake hoses and cars tend to do many more miles than bikes and stay on the road much longer. They also have a harder life.
I've seen them with the rubber hard and cracked, bits missing, frayed ends but I've never seen one let go unless it has been snagged on something or cut. I have seen a few weep.
I could show you cars tomorrow that are 40 years old with 750+ km's that have original hoses.

I don't know but I imagine the liners that carry the fluid are similar in both with just the outer sheath different. I know they say to change them but has anyone here actually had one fail with normal use and proper routing?

Yes, I have (I think).  Fortunately it wasn't my truck, though I was driving it.  I want to say it was in 1996 or so, and I was driving a 1970(-ish, it's been awhile) Chevy pickup truck.  Coming up a hill at low speed and had a deer jump precariously close to the front, so I applied the brakes pretty firmly and fast.  Blew a line and the pedal went to the floor.  Shut the key off and juddered to a halt in first gear (manual trans), near a either confused or oblivious deer.  Fortunately I was heading up a hill still, and going 15mph or less at the time.  In truth, I never saw the damage, so I can't say that it was the rubber letting go instead of a corroded fitting or hard line, but I know that the truck had the brake lines comprehensively replaced shortly therafter.

I do sorta understand the idea of replacing brake lines on a bike.  Frankly, if I'd been going 60mph and lost all braking like that, I'd have clobbered the deer, and that'd have been bad.  But I'd much rather do it while wearing 4500lbs of steel than 10lbs of leather, y`know?  So now, I just inspect the lines and replace them if they're showing obvious signs of age, going to braided, and cease worrying.

Arguably, brake lines on a bike have a harder life than those in a car, if only because the rubber is exposed to sunlight on a motorcycle most of the time, and in a car only when something has gone quite severely wrong.  We know that ozone and time hurt rubber, but so does UV light.  So I'd imagine that it's a typical act of the OEM's trying desperately to cover their behinds over a relatively rare problem.

<edit to respond to posted post while I was posting my post.  Postpostpost.>

I'd assume that Galfer is playing the odds and knows that a brake line failure is very rare compared to a rider failure.

[TexasDave]

I have the original brake lines on my 84 and they look good and still lock up the tires. I think all the talk of stainless brake lines is overated. The only improvement I can see is the ones with teflon insides.  Dave

[ribbert]

I have the original brake lines on my 84 and they look good and still lock up the tires. I think all the talk of stainless brake lines is overated. The only improvement I can see is the ones with teflon insides.  Dave

The benefit of SS brake lines is not safety but the fact they don't expand under pressure. You get a significantly better feel at the lever with them. this is the only reason I changed out my original ones.
I think sometimes people mistake the deterioration of the outer sheath (the rubber) with the inner hose carrying the fluid.
As I said, I have never seen one fail.
I have seen plenty of wheel cylinders and master cylinders fail when the brakes have been jumped on.

Noel

[TexasDave]

 I replaced all lines on my Harley with stainless right after I bought it. I did not notice any change in the feel. It was done purely for cosmetic reasons. However the Harley does not get ridden as hard as the FJ and definitely not as fast. Yes I have heard all the Harley sayings--most expensive way to turn gasoline into noise--yesterdays technology with tomorrows prices and I agree with those. Had to buy it because it was to good a deal not to but thats another story.  Dave

[rktmanfj]

Yes, I have (I think).  Fortunately it wasn't my truck, though I was driving it.  I want to say it was in 1996 or so, and I was driving a 1970(-ish, it's been awhile) Chevy pickup truck.  Coming up a hill at low speed and had a deer jump precariously close to the front, so I applied the brakes pretty firmly and fast.  Blew a line and the pedal went to the floor.  Shut the key off and juddered to a halt in first gear (manual trans), near a either confused or oblivious deer.  Fortunately I was heading up a hill still, and going 15mph or less at the time.  In truth, I never saw the damage, so I can't say that it was the rubber letting go instead of a corroded fitting or hard line, but I know that the truck had the brake lines comprehensively replaced shortly therafter.

I do sorta understand the idea of replacing brake lines on a bike.  Frankly, if I'd been going 60mph and lost all braking like that, I'd have clobbered the deer, and that'd have been bad.  But I'd much rather do it while wearing 4500lbs of steel than 10lbs of leather, y`know?  So now, I just inspect the lines and replace them if they're showing obvious signs of age, going to braided, and cease worrying.

Arguably, brake lines on a bike have a harder life than those in a car, if only because the rubber is exposed to sunlight on a motorcycle most of the time, and in a car only when something has gone quite severely wrong.  We know that ozone and time hurt rubber, but so does UV light.  So I'd imagine that it's a typical act of the OEM's trying desperately to cover their behinds over a relatively rare problem.

<edit to respond to posted post while I was posting my post.  Postpostpost.>

I'd assume that Galfer is playing the odds and knows that a brake line failure is very rare compared to a rider failure.

FWIW, I've had a few 60s & 70s era Chevy trucks, and each one of them, at some point, had a brake failure (the 60s ones especially scary as they only had a single-pot m/c).  In each case, in was the steel hard line under the bed that had rusted through and failed.

I'm still a big believer in getting rid of those old rubber lines... the better feel alone is worth the cost.

[Pat Conlon]

Oh for God's sake...what's the big deal? Such a big fuss...Why spend the money? It's only your brakes....

[Yamifj1200]

" It's only your brakes...."

They only slow you down!!!!!..

Ride a FJ with stock brake lines, master cyclinder and calipers, then ride one with upgraded lines, master cylinder and calipers. If you don't see remarkable improvement in feel and function I will buy you lunch....

  Eric M

[Capn Ron]

I know they say to change them but has anyone here actually had one fail with normal use and proper routing?

Noel

I've had two fail...but as you pointed out, one was due to improper routing.

On my rock crawler, brake lines are extended to deal with the extreme articulation of the axles...I flat-towed the rig from LA to the Rubicon (Lake Tahoe area) and headed for the trail.  The first corner and the brake line blew out because it had been rubbing on the tire slightly the whole trip north.  We carry spares for about everything so I was back on the road (off the road) in no time.

The other incident was just old cracked lines.  I had a 16-year old '69 Dodge Dart when I was in high school and was driving around Troy, New York with my buddy Kevin following me in his car.  Troy is a very hilly town and I was messing around with my buddy by slamming on the brakes just as I started going down the first hill.  The pedal hit the floor!  I pumped the pedal, but I had no pressure at all and was heading down this hill towards a red light and a blind intersection (narrow, building-lined streets).  I wasn't worried, I had the emergency brake!  I waited until I thought I needed to apply it and grabbed it for all I was worth.  The rear tires locked up and I just skidded right through that red light across the intersection and kept on going.    When things flattened out, I eventually came to a stop.  We crawled under and one of the front brake lines had just blown out.  Upon inspecting the other brake lines, they were all on borrowed time.

I learned a lot that day...about proper inspection of critical parts, about rear-to-front weight transfer, the limits of friction and mostly the absolute luck of good timing through that intersection!   

When I replaced all the lines on the FJ, they actually looked fine...I was going for a better lever feel and peace of mind.

Cap'n Ron. . .

[1tinindian]

FWIW, I've had a few 60s & 70s era Chevy trucks, and each one of them, at some point, had a brake failure (the 60s ones especially scary as they only had a single-pot m/c).  In each case, in was the steel hard line under the bed that had rusted through and failed.

I'm still a big believer in getting rid of those old rubber lines... the better feel alone is worth the cost.

FYI, it's not just the older ones, I have replaced lines on 1990s+ where the metal line likes to rust out under the bed, between the fuel take and the frame rail.

But really guys, brakes are for quitters! LOL

Leon

[FeralRdr]

I never had a catastrophic failure, but my FJ's OEM lines did start delaminating after about 20+ years.  I replaced them with Spieglers, and they definitely provided better feel as opposed to the OEM lines. 

[Arnie]

All very interesting, but no one has answered my question. :-/

I've never seen a replacement time or mileage figure for SS brake lines, which is why I asked.
My SS lines, with Tygon® inner tubes are now 16yrs and 90,000 kms old, so?? I'll just keep them.

[ribbert]

All very interesting, but no one has answered my question. :-/

I've never seen a replacement time or mileage figure for SS brake lines, which is why I asked.
My SS lines, with Tygon® inner tubes are now 16yrs and 90,000 kms old, so?? I'll just keep them.

I doubt you would see a 'recommended life' for replacement rubber lines either.

This is the sort of stuff only the bike manufacturers come up with. Master cylinder and slave cylinder cups are far more prone to failure, failing at 2 or 3 the rate of the hoses but come with no recommended replacement schedule.

How often have you followed the steps in a workshop manual for a particular procedure only to then realise you could do it in half the time following your nose - same engineers.

Noel