Deal or no deal: Honda Blackbird

[rusjel]

Oh, I meant to add the little I know about Blackbirds and FI.

96-99 Carbs. Seems to run very well, lotsa power and great carburation

99-00 FI but some issues with abrupt fuelling from closed throttle and low rpm

01-02(?) fuel issues sorted

02(?)- cats in the mufflers, a little less power and a little more weight.

Lots of people argue about the power, my 'seat-of-pants-o-meter' reads 'plenty' aboard any model 'Bird.

[andyb]

Why are we comparing modified bikes vs stock ones?  Nevermind that a stock blackbird and a 17" converted FJ will have the same weight and comparable rubber, but a big power difference... I'm sure that a 1350 heavily modified FJ could beat it in a straight line as well if the blackbird was stock?

Don't be silly.

If you want to push curves hard, you want something >100lbs lighter, or as mentioned, REALLY light like a supermoto.

[Alf]

rusjel: maybe one day we meet with a Blackbird and a FJ in a piece of tarmac... maybe at OK Corral..

I agree with your disagreements about my disagrees    most of this are personal tastes too. Its clear that most of the time I´m faster in a FJ and you´re faster in a Blackbird

Only another point of view: do you consider an FJ 1300 faster and with better handling than a Blackbird?. Motociclismo rode 3 sgs faster with a completely std FJ 1100 over the grand daughter FJR 1300 at the Jarama circuit

[RD56]

ZARF.. ZARF..hmm..Sounds suspiciously like a VURP. Could you use it in a sentence, please? Oh, and don't mind me, I'm just going to be using the computer over here to, uh, uh, check my uh, email and stuff...

Setting: Old timey FW Woolworth, or any old time ice cream / soda fountain joint. Soda jerk responds to your request for a cherry lime smash. "I'm sorry sir, but I can't serve you a proper cherry lime smash because all of our zarfs are currently being washed."

This should help, otherwise you're just not old enough to have seen one of these. You had to have been at least 30 years old when the FJ1100 was first introduced to appreciate a zarf.

[RD56]

Final hint: zarf is a real word not an urban creation, or slang.

[rusjel]

If you want to push curves hard, you want something >100lbs lighter, or as mentioned, REALLY light like a supermoto.

Indeed. But some of us have behemoths and like to push them hard. That'll be preference Andy, not an expression of how much common sense a person has. Tell me, if you have done trackdays, that you haven't seen a similar beast to your bike at such an event and wanted to know how yours would measure up against it?

I started my input into this discussion with a stock 'Bird and a slightly modified FJ because I guess a lot of people wanting to optimise their FJ would have done the mods outlined. A lot of people put a 6mm shim on top of their Blackbird shock because it has been shown to greatly improve turn in.

Neither represent the sort of time and money required to turn an FJ into a 1350.

But since you've raised it I'll play. I'd still find the 'Bird more agile and the FJ more comfy. It would be interesting to see what more mumbo could do for the FJ's lap around PI, it it would make no difference at all around a tighter circuit, where the FJ's heft and clearance is the limiting factor. O.k?

Alf, I've never ridden a Feejer (it's what we call them in Oz)  hard on the track or road, but from what I've seen they handle very well as a tourer.

Seeing the FJ1100 was initially released as Yamaha's balls out sports bike challenger and the FJR was always intended to be a sports tourer I'm kinda glad the FJ is faster around Jarama! 

FWIW I've always thought either of my FJs (solid or rubber mount) handled better on more spirited rides than a Feejer.

But the more of a crippled old guy I become the more attractive that kind of bike becomes and I reckon our of the Concors, ST1300 the Feejer is the pick of the litter. :-)

[Pat Conlon]

.....But the more of a crippled old guy I become the more attractive that kind of bike becomes and I reckon our of the Concors, ST1300 the Feejer is the pick of the litter. :-)

I've ridden the FJR and they 'feel' like they are...100lbs heavier than our FJs with less ground clearance.
Still, the FJR is faster than the stock FJ (but not my RPM1350) and a very nice sport tourer with the emphasis of tourer. It just 'feels' like a big bike (to me) yet in the hands of a aggressive rider like Dean or Marsh, it would no doubt, run away from me...

Question to Russ and Alf: Where does the Kawa ZX14 fall in the mix? Not as nimble as the 'Busa?
I've always thought that the big Kawa with a Spiegler bar conversion and a Penske shock would be a competent sport tourer.
Thanks guys for the great insight....

[JMR]

.....But the more of a crippled old guy I become the more attractive that kind of bike becomes and I reckon our of the Concors, ST1300 the Feejer is the pick of the litter. :-)

I've ridden the FJR and they 'feel' like they are...100lbs heavier than our FJs with less ground clearance.
Still, the FJR is faster than the stock FJ (but not my RPM1350) and a very nice sport tourer with the emphasis of tourer. It just 'feels' like a big bike (to me) yet in the hands of a aggressive rider like Dean or Marsh, it would no doubt, run away from me...

Question to Russ and Alf: Where does the Kawa ZX14 fall in the mix? Not as nimble as the 'Busa?
I've always thought that the big Kawa with a Spiegler bar conversion and a Penske shock would be a competent sport tourer.
Thanks guys for the great insight....

Pat...I think your opinion of the FJR is correct. I have ridden the 14 after putting an Akrapovic pipe on it (my dentist's bike).....it was very, very smooth....more "polished" than the Hayabusa. The handling was "Big Bike"....my busa has Ohlins rear shock, late model nitride forks with Traxxion cartridges etc etc. I think the 14 is more nimble than the busa in stock form. On that note the Kawasaki absolutely sucks to work on compared to the Hayabusa. They both suck to work on compared to the FJ which is the easiest bike I have ever worked on and I owned a shop in the 90's.
I have ridden my busa to Mid Ohio back and forth in 1 day 3 times. I raised the via a spacer 1/2", put drag race rear sets (though there are much cheaper options) etc. That ride is to and from Massachusetts.
I like the big bike feel on the open road....tou feel planted and tractor trailers don't suck you in. I have a 2000 RC-51 (#33 off the line) for real fun. Damn I love that bike.

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks Mike, yea, I suspect that in the distant future when the time comes that we have to work on these new bikes, we will wish for the days of our old school FJ's.

Funny how life repeats itself....I remember my dad telling me a story about a road trip and developing a rod knock on his Model A, so by the roadside, he dropped the oil pan, cut up his leather belt and shimmed the rod bearing. He said he ran it like that for hundreds of miles.
Back in the 60's he mentioned that missed the old days, as he struggled with these new fangled OHV engines and multi barrel carbs...."much too complicated" he said.

[Flynt]

all of our zarfs are currently being washed....

OK...  this hint did it for me, but not from ice cream.  A ZARF is the thingy you pop the disposable cup into that gives it a handle.  I heard this once long ago and far away, so maybe it is a generic term for a carrier of sorts that dresses up the disposable thing you serve the ice cream in?

Frank

[Flynt]

You had to have been at least 30 years old when the FJ1100 was first introduced to appreciate a zarf.

I was only 21...  the ZARF I had heard of (kinda) was a little plastic frame with a handle that you snapped Solo cups into so you could drink hot coffee in a thin plastic cup without buying your hands.

Frank

[TexasDave]

I remember those things but I did't know that was what they were called. The ones I remember seeing were probably stainless steel. I would guess ZARF was probably the manufacturer.  Dave

[rusjel]

.....But the more of a crippled old guy I become the more attractive that kind of bike becomes and I reckon our of the Concors, ST1300 the Feejer is the pick of the litter. :-)

I've ridden the FJR and they 'feel' like they are...100lbs heavier than our FJs with less ground clearance.
Still, the FJR is faster than the stock FJ (but not my RPM1350) and a very nice sport tourer with the emphasis of tourer. It just 'feels' like a big bike (to me) yet in the hands of a aggressive rider like Dean or Marsh, it would no doubt, run away from me...

Question to Russ and Alf: Where does the Kawa ZX14 fall in the mix? Not as nimble as the 'Busa?
I've always thought that the big Kawa with a Spiegler bar conversion and a Penske shock would be a competent sport tourer.
Thanks guys for the great insight....

Pat...I think your opinion of the FJR is correct. I have ridden the 14 after putting an Akrapovic pipe on it (my dentist's bike).....it was very, very smooth....more "polished" than the Hayabusa. The handling was "Big Bike"....my busa has Ohlins rear shock, late model nitride forks with Traxxion cartridges etc etc. I think the 14 is more nimble than the busa in stock form. On that note the Kawasaki absolutely sucks to work on compared to the Hayabusa. They both suck to work on compared to the FJ which is the easiest bike I have ever worked on and I owned a shop in the 90's.
I have ridden my busa to Mid Ohio back and forth in 1 day 3 times. I raised the via a spacer 1/2", put drag race rear sets (though there are much cheaper options) etc. That ride is to and from Massachusetts.
I like the big bike feel on the open road....tou feel planted and tractor trailers don't suck you in. I have a 2000 RC-51 (#33 off the line) for real fun. Damn I love that bike.

Pat at the risk of sounding ( more like) a know-it-all I have quite a few miles on a ZX-14. It belongs to a friend who like me, has his bike set up for distance work, but enjoys a spirited ride as well.

Glens bike has after market springs and valving, 20mm risers and spotlights. Before he had the suspension done the bike felt pretty soggy for the enormous power it was toting.

I also dislike the truck like whine as you accelerate through 1st gear.  Again a consequence of the huge power the thing makes. Low and midrange it makes the Blackbird and to an extent the Busa, look a little anaemic and it has an amazing top end rush.

Refinement wise it's rougher than the bird, more refined than the Busa, although the Busa has a sweeter gearbox.

Handling I think it steers more slowly than the Busa or Bird, but holds a line well and will turn if you have the confidence to chuck it in.

It is a better tourer than either. Now that Glen has had the suspension done it soaks up the bumps, weight transfer under brakes is much better than stock and is not fatiguing to ride a long way.

If I was after the ultimate grunt monster it would pip the 'Bird as an all rounder, but as it is I think the 'Bird just shades it as an all round package.

Some say the K1300S BMW is better than them all, but I've never ridden one to compare.

JMR, the RC-51 is one of my all time lust bikes. It goes just as hard as a 998 or Mille and it's the only one of the three I fit reasonably comfortably on. Jealous! 

[Pat Conlon]

Pat at the risk of sounding ( more like) a know-it-all.... 
 

No, no, not at all....I appreciate your view point. I've only read about the comparisons in magazines. Never have I talked to folks who have first hand experience.
I have ridden both the 'busa and Zx14 but it was not long enough for me to get a opinion on the difference between them..

They both scared the shit out of me.... looking down thinking holy shit I'm going 140....feels like 80...sooo damn smooth with a lot of throttle left to open.

Thanks!

[andyb]

Indeed. But some of us have behemoths and like to push them hard. That'll be preference Andy, not an expression of how much common sense a person has.

Sure, I totally understand that  I really like machines in that ~500lb range myself for sport-touring.  You get a better ride and more stability, plus because they tend to be the open class machines, they were the top of the range models when new, so they have less apparent corners cut in their design.

But I do a significant amount of straight line highway miles.  If I lived someplace near a racetrack or with significant curvy roads, my preferences would be much different.  On my yearly-ish trip to see a friend slightly SW of St Louis, I'm usually wishing for something in the 425lb range, simply because the roads seem endlessly twisty and vastly smoother than the heavily frost-damaged and potholed ones that I spend the bulk of my riding time on.

At the dragstrip, it seems that the liter bikes are doing quite a bit better than the big machines, though they universally share a lack of clutch life as compared to the >1200cc stuff.  Weight really does count!

I remember hating my CBR600F2 because you constantly had to cane it to death just to make progress, the ride was harsh, and it was difficult to ride in a stiff crosswind.  All things that the FJ had no issue with at all!  And yet, on the right road, the lack of weight made things nimble and much, much more rewarding than throwing around something heavier and feeling it complain.  So it just depends on the riding you do and your preferences.