89 1200 FJ viberation

[Arnie]

John Cain previously mentioned the bolts that hold the frame links together.
There are a pair of bolts at approximately the front engine mounts
AND another pair of bolts at the rear of the frame just inboard of the footpegs.  
These bolts can loosen or break.  You will need to remove the footpeg plates to inspect properly.
IIRC these are 8mm bolts that go through a 10mm hole and then into 8mm threaded socket on the frame.
If you have 1 or more of these bolts broken, its a good idea replace them all with 10mm bolts.
You will have to re-tap the threaded sockets to do this.

Arnie

Part Nos. 15, 16 are the bolts that can (and do) break

[movenon]

I would suggest you spend more time syncing the carbs. I recommend doing it at 1050 RPM , then run your bike up to 3000 RPM / hold it there and recheck it. Get it as smooth as you can. Watch how even the bars come up together and that they stabilize together holding a 3K.

IMO the longer the syncing tubes are the more accurate they read between tubes. Mine are around 2'-0 long (actual fluid), I estimate that about 1/8 inch of of movement in a short set of synchronizers is about an inch in mine. When I started to play with them I discovered that very little tweeking on the adjustments made a big difference. Is is just harder to see on a short set of tubes.

I may not have explained that correctly and it is just an observation. What ever tool you use, just take some time and do a little experimenting. Getting them to balance up in the 3K level is good !

The foam grips that RPM has works great also. They are cheap and about the best you can do to midagate vibrations in the grips. Gel grips work OK but there best reported feature is resisting impact. I am giving some thought to installing gel grips and installing Grip Puppy's (foam) over them. Some of the gel grips have recessed patterns in them that would help isolate your hand from some of the surface area and with a thin foam cover over that (Grip Puppy's) it might work out ? It will increase the diameter of the grip a little. Thinking out load..... gets me into trouble sometimes. 


Gloves, there are gloves out there with gel pads in parts of the palms that might also help.  Check your local Harley dealer

So now I have the Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations" playing in my head.....
George

[CelticTiger]

@andyb - Yes, the stock barends are in place.

I have the Haynes manual, so I can look up the torque settings.

I am a little dubious about the odometer reading as she is a 21 year old German import. That said, the readout is Km not miles so it could be original.

In relation to the gloves,  I might try an old pair and see if that helps any. I am hoping to take on a couple of 400 + mile trips over the next couple of weekends, and I don't fancy standing on the side of the road every half hour wriggling my hands trying to get some sensation back in them.


Thanks for your suggestions, I will tackle these suggestions to day.

Conor
Thanks for that. I did sync the catbs, but not at a specific Rpm. It will be a chance to use a new sync tool to get her bang on right at the 'worst' Rpm.

[ribbert]

Just below those front engine mounts, there runs a bolt right through two rubber mountings. When I removed them, one was flexible, one like concrete.

Thanks in advance,

Conor

That's interesting. Is there any chance the "flexible" one is broken?  My experience with those is that they are hard, like car mounts, you can't really get much movement by hand.

Arnie's on the money with those frame bolts being a common problem but having bought a bike and ridden it for while with one bolt missing, one sheared and one stripped with an elongated hole (only one bolt left holding one side together) it did not contribute much, if any, to vibration, much to my surprise.

I'm not sure whether carb syncing at higher revs helps. 3000 rpm in neutral is different to 3000 rpm under load, the butterflies and slides will be in different positions. Even if it did, the level of tuning difference is not going to make it vibrate like that.

Gel grips, fancy gloves, vibranators etc are only going to mask the problem. Your model bike should be turbine smooth.

Did you clean up and lubricate the collars/bushes in the engine mounts before reinstalling them?

Just to make sure, we are talking about vibrations, not just the issue of you hands going to sleep?

My hands do this if I haven't ridden for a while, nothing to do with vibration though. I find the throttle lock good for this.

Everything everyone has suggested is a good idea or a known problem that needs to be addressed. I just can't see any of them causing severe vibration though.

If vibration IS your problem, what you describe most accurately resembles the seized engine mount issue. If these are working as they should, none of those other issues are going to produce hand numbing vibes. Your bike will, however, run sweeter if they are all addressed.

I would check those rubber bushes. I imagine like most engine mounts they should be hard and whatever they are meant to be, they should be the same.

Noel

[Dan Filetti]

Just to make sure, we are talking about vibrations, not just the issue of you hands going to sleep?

I wondered this too.  You had mentioned that it was not so bad at speed, which makes me wonder whether you are simply putting too much weight on your wrists. 

Here's a data point; I now ride a considerably less comfortable bike than the FJ (GSX-R750).  When I bought it, I knew I was going to see what I could do to 'soften it up' an bit, -ergonomically speaking.  To that end I installed Heli-Bar risers, a taller wind screen, mirror stalk extenders, foam [heated] grips, and a grip tape material in the knee cutouts.  I had read pressure can be taken off the wrists by simply squeezing your knees together and levering your upper-body back away from the bars with your back muscles.  The grip tape helps keep your knees stationary.

Anyway I have found that as my wrists get sore, I intentionally squeeze my knees together and lift weight off the wrists.  In this way, and it really seems to help on long slogs.     It may be that it's not vibration at all.  Just a thought.

Dan   

[CelticTiger]

@ posters within the past 24 hours, apologies for my apparent rudeness not referring to your replies but, I was previously using my phone but I could only see andys reply. No offence intended to you helpful folk, I assure you.

@ notalib - I was with my mentor today, tightening up the frame bolts and spent serious time syncing carbs. We are addressing one issue at a time as a process of elimination. We will address the actual handlebars sooner rather than later. I will update with my findings.

@arnie - Many thanks for your exploded diagram, but I did just as you suggested and tightened all the bolts behind the footpeg plates. I can report they are all present and secure.

(On a separate but related topic, while I was working on the bike for a continuous 6 hours today, I took a quick look in the Haynes 'bible', but could see no reference to torque settings??? I just tightened everything tight as I could get it. Perhaps some kind soul could direct me to where the torque settings for engine mounts, peg plates are to be found?)

@movenon - my good man, I devoted my day to this issue. The first part of the day was spent tightening every bolt in sight. Then I addressed the bolts hidden behind the footpeg plates. Finally, I got to play/ work with my buddys snazzy mercury carb tool. While I ran the engine to warm it up, it ran rough and lumpy. After we had warmed her up we got to work. The final result was around the 3000rpm range, those 4 mercury bars lined up pretty good.

I put the petrol tank and tupperware back in place, and brought my pride and joy for a fill of Unleaded. At this point I was fully booted & suited, and fancied a 200 mile rip on my beauty to get the full benefit from my days endeavours. Prior to setting off, I spotted my oil level was a little low so I topped it up. The engine sounded silky smooth. I rode about a half a mile and filled her with petrol/gas. It was an urban area so I couldn't really open her up, but acceleration was very smooth and responsive.After filling up on petrol, I decided to check tyre pressures. Both seemed to be down about 5psi. I was replacing the valve cap on the front valve when the valve innards ejected, and my front tyre immediately deflated! I found the part, a brass coloured item about 1 inch long wirt a thin band of rubber around its centre. I literally pushed it back into tne valve, topped it up to36psi and rode it back to my buddys workshop where she currently resides. As soon as he went to updo thee blve cap, it flew off to God knows where. Tomorrow, I will remove the front wheel and have a new valve professionally fitted. I was genuinely p!ssed off that I didn't get to test ride it after spending that time working on it, but if that valve had popped while I was doing the motorway speeds I had intended, I may not be able to write this reply tonight. In terms of the gloves, I am in the market for a new pair. I enjoyed yoyr comment about the HD gloves, but I'm not quiet in that woos catagory just yet

@ribbert - when I say flexible, I mean with a pinch bar, to try and re-install the tubing between the two mounts, with one there was a tiny bit of flexibility at full strength, the other was rock solid! I plan to remove the pair from my other donor and put the softer pair on, as they should absorb some vibrations, I presume. (please correct me if I am wrong)

Noel - I have no idea if/why my hands are 'going to sleep'. No other activity causes this tingling leading to numbness and you can see the handlebars visibly vibrating, so I am still putting it down to that.

You say my model should be turbine smooth, I really wish she was, because I really want to do some 250-300mile days on her.But this numb hands issue is causing me concerns I should not have.

@Dan Filetti - For sure, there is a visible vibration issue (see above) but... I am willing to learn and if by squeezing the petrol tank reduces pressure on my wrists, then that can only improve my riding skills and riding enjoyment. I will report back and update on my findings as soon as I get my baby back on the road.

Again, thanks for all your helpful contributions.

Ride Safe,

Conor

[ribbert]

Connor, that brass thing that flew out of the tyre IS the valve and it SCREWS in. No need to take the wheel somewhere to refit. It needs a tool to tighten it that is quite often on the valve cap itself.
Noel

[yamaha fj rider]

Noel asked if you just removed and checked or did you also clean/grease the front engine mounts. If grease was not applied take them apart again clean and lube.
Instructions can be found in the files section. If they are dry there is most likely the cause of your vibration. Hope this helps.

Kurt

[andyb]

(On a separate but related topic, while I was working on the bike for a continuous 6 hours today, I took a quick look in the Haynes 'bible', but could see no reference to torque settings??? I just tightened everything tight as I could get it. Perhaps some kind soul could direct me to where the torque settings for engine mounts, peg plates are to be found?)

In the Haynes (which is better than nothing, but has a couple errors in it, FYI!), the torque specs for various things are located at the end of the specifications that begin each chapter. 

For example, page 5-2 has torque specifications for frame/suspension bolts.   Not all bolts will have a spec in the manual, but it seems that most bolts of a given size will share a specification, with obvious exceptions (i.e., shoulder bolts).  I thought someplace in there had a base guideline for each bolt size, but I don't see it after a quick spin through.


Noel is right, the bit you lost from the tire is the valve itself.  Need a valve stem tool ($2 at Autozone/Napa/etc) to swap those around, they just screw in.  If you change your own tires, it's a handy tool to have as it makes getting the air out really easy   The valve bit can be replaced without replacing the entire assembly (which requires at least partially pulling the tire for access).

[movenon]

This might help ?

Engine front upper 40 ft.lbs TQ
Engine front lower 40    "
Engine rear upper  40    "
Engine rear under  65 ft.lbs

3-63 service manual

George 

[ribbert]

Connor, that brass thing that flew out of the tyre IS the valve and it SCREWS in. No need to take the wheel somewhere to refit. It needs a tool to tighten it that is quite often on the valve cap itself.
Noel

Conner, have a look around all your vehicles, even you push bikes. Chances are you will find a valve cap that looks like this. The split end is a valve tool, you can screw it back in with that. That is what it is made for.



Or, the tool Andyb mentioned for a couple of bucks looks like this and can be used to clean up the internal and external threads although I don't believe I've had occasion to use that option in 40 years.



Noel

[CelticTiger]

Gracias amigos,
                      I will respond in chronological order.

@ribbert - Yes Noel, I am acutely aware that it was the metal valve that blew, all that was left was the rubber. Good news on that score, I contacted the fitter of my shiny Bribgestone T30 front tyre (located 120 miles away), and in fairness to him, he immediately took matters in hand. He contacted a local Honda dealer who replaced the valve while I waited and apologised profusely for any inconvenience. In all reasonable fairness, I phoned him to merely inform him of the fact that mine had blown and perhaps he unwittingly was fitting a dodgy batch of tyre valves. I was very happy with that outcome and of course I had the courtesy to phone the original fitter back and thank him for his excellent service. Karma ...

Note to all - check that your tyre valves are tight. I got two posts on our Irish Biker site where it happened two other riders, both under racing conditions.

@ yamaha fj rider - Hi Kurt, yes, under the expert supervision of my veteran motorcycle mechanic, we applied a lubricating grease to the two front engine mounts, but that was all. As I reported here previously, we encountered two rubber mounts one with absolutely no flexibility, the other with some 'give' just below the engine mounts we serviced/lubed.

A goodly share of last Sunday was spent syncing the carbs as best we could, which I am given to believe should help minimise some of the effects of the engine vibration. Had my front tyre valve not blown out, I would be reporting on the success or otherwise of my efforts.
I am meeting my buddy at his workshop in the morning and we will be re-fitting the front wheel then. I am also hoping to encourage him to undertake the fitting of the Blue dot front calipers, but I don't like to over tax his hospitality

@andyb - Thanks for the heads up re the Haynes manual. It was the 'dirty book' of choice I took to bed many years ago ( sad b@st@rd that I am ) when I purchased my first FJ and I thought I had a lot of the info committed to memory, but it appears I have drowned a few brain cells in Guinness since then I will undertake a rapid revision course now that I am getting my beloved FJ out from it's metallic home and into God's open country, where it belongs

@ movenon - George - your attention to detail is spot on. I am going for a swim in the morning followed by a visit to my buddy where we shall once again attach the front wheel to my steed. I shall remove the Tupperware and apply those very Torque settings you have kindly supplied. I have duly taken note of the relevant Chapter & Verse, and will refer there in future.

@ ribbert - Wow Noel, I haven't seen a Medieval weapon like your 2nd pic for sale over here
I will certainly research it  and pick one up asap.

I met my veteran bike mechanic friend today, and he is still reeling from the fact that I had left his premises, after a full day of bike improvements on Sunday, and I was bound for a 'spirited' 200 mile round trip at Motorway speeds just prior to having my front tyre valve blow out. Had that bl@@dy tyre valve decided to pop when I was on the Motorway, things might be very different...

Huge Thanks gents for your invaluable assistance to a mechanical 'noob'

Ride safe fellow FJ'ers,

Conor

[FJmonkey]

After having a front tire mounted and balanced by a shop close to work I had a valve issue. I was performing my routine checks on the bike including air pressure. I took my valve cap off and heard a quiet hisssss. Damn, I was thinking it was the valve stem, already had one fail so I replace them every 3 tires. But I wiggled it around and the sound did not change. Ok, it must be a bad Schrader valve. I have few spare in the garage. Just for giggles I make sure the one in the stem is tight. It was loose!!!  One of the reasons I decided I was taking that job over myself and now mount and balance my own tires. And why I now have 90* stems as well, easier to check the air and service if it starts to leak.

[movenon]

After having a front tire mounted and balanced by a shop close to work I had a valve issue. I was performing my routine checks on the bike including air pressure. I took my valve cap off and heard a quiet hisssss. Damn, I was thinking it was the valve stem, already had one fail so I replace them every 3 tires. But I wiggled it around and the sound did not change. Ok, it must be a bad Schrader valve. I have few spare in the garage. Just for giggles I make sure the one in the stem is tight. It was loose!!!  One of the reasons I decided I was taking that job over myself and now mount and balance my own tires. And why I now have 90* stems as well, easier to check the air and service if it starts to leak.

"trust no one"  Double check all work done by someone else, there life isn't depended on there work.... (unless you survive  ).
George

[FJmonkey]

"trust no one"  Double check all work done by someone else, there life isn't depended on there work.... (unless you survive  ).
George

The truth has been spoken, sayeth the man that "is his own service department".... Forks scared me, not any more, valves scared me, not any more, carbs scared me, not anymore, I am thinking that if I need a new kidney I might be able to self service....