Clutch Question

[83elite]

The biggest issue I have with my recently purchase FJ is the clutch. It doesn't seem to release fully with the engine running.

For example: bike on centerstand, clutch lever in, drop shifter to first, and rear wheel starts turning, fairly rapidly. Doesn't cause a problem with the tire on ground, but a large "clunk" going into gear. Bike shifts fine with no slippage through the gears.
Example #2. Neutral is very hard to find with the bike running, sitting still. In fact, hard to shift between first and second period when bike is running and stationary. Turn engine off, problem disappears, neutral is easily found, shift seems normal. Neutral can also be found when downshifting in motion.
I bled the M/C and slave (pumped new Dot 4 through until old was gone) but it doesn't seem to have had any major effect. After reading the posts about the difficulties in bleeding the system, I may try again. There is some missing paint on the cover indicating some slave cylinder issues at some, but it doesn't seem to be "wet".

Would the non-release issue indicate a slave cylinder rebuild is in order, or a deeper clutch issue?

[SlowOldGuy]

The rear wheel will always turn when when started cold on the centerstand.  At least until the oil is warmed up.  That's just drag bewteen the oil and clutch plates.  It is only a clutch problem if the clutch is not disengaging the transmission completely.  You say it's not a problem when the tire is on the ground, so I believe this is just "normal" drag of cold oil.

The problem you're having finding neutral is just a characteristic of a constant mesh transmission.  If you're cruising along in 5th gear, pull in the clutch, and brake to a stop, then try to downshift into 1st gear, or neutral, chances are you won't be able to do it easily.  You'll need to downshift then let the clutch out slightly to "re-mesh" the gears, then select the next gear and repeat until you get to the desired gear.  

The best method to find neutral, from either 1st or 2nd gear, is to release the clutch SLIGHTLY so the bike rolls at least a couple of inches.  While the bike is moving, perform the shift to neutral. The transmission ALWAYS shifts better when its internals are in motion.  That's just a characteristic of the constant mesh design.

The big clunk when going into gear is also normal.  In fact, my FZ1 and my brother's FJR both do it about as loudly as the FJ.

DavidR.

[racerman_27410]

I always roll my bike out with the clutch in and in gear before first starting... saves the clunking by breaking the clutch plates loose from the cold oil.... more noticeable in cooler temps for sure.


Kookaloo!

Frank

[83elite]

I appreciate the input, but I may have understated the problem. At a stop, you can't get into neutral. Not even with your hand, from first or second. It will either not move at all, or just crashes "through" neutral like it's still partially engaged. Plus, even warmed up the clutch still tries to "pull" with the lever disengaged.  

[Dan Filetti]

You may have a leaking slave and/or air in the clutch line -which, incidentally, often comes from a leaking slave.  Check for the tell-tale signs of paint chipping/ peeling off around (below or behind) the slave (which is on the bottom of the right side of the motor -slightly above and behind the shifter).  If it is, you have now, or at least had at one point, the leaking slave issue.  It's a very common problem for the FJ.  Fairly easy fix too if that's it.

Some folks here have reported issues re-bleeding the system when you've re-built/ replace the slave.  I had no such issues when I replace mine -just lucky I guess.  You can read on here 'till the cows come home on possible techniques to properly bleed.  For me, I simply used a mighty-vac and sucked fluid down from the master as I re-filled it while working the lever a bit.  Worked a charm, and I did not even seal the slave bolts!! (sorry Steve )

I guess you should figure out whether this is the issue first, but it seems to me, if you own an FJ long enough, you'll be doing a slave, and if you own an FJ longer still, you may be doing another one.  So maybe it'll be helpful then, if not now...

Dan     

[SlowOldGuy]

What Dan said, except the slave cylinder (and shifter) is on the LEFT side of the motor.  :-)

Sounds like a leaking slave is not allowing the clutch to dis-engage the transmission completely.  Perform required maintenance accordingly.  How's that for "actionable feedback?"

DavidR.

[racerman_27410]

OR  there are barnett kevlar clutch plates installed .... those damn things would never turn loose when i was running them..... JME,


KOokaloo!

Frank

[83elite]

Gotcha. A rebuild it is then. Thanks for the input! 

[Dan Filetti]

What Dan said, except the slave cylinder (and shifter) is on the LEFT side of the motor.  :-)

Sounds like a leaking slave is not allowing the clutch to dis-engage the transmission completely.  Perform required maintenance accordingly.  How's that for "actionable feedback?"

DavidR.

Yeah, my other right...

[83elite]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input. Rebuilt the slave last Saturday, got forearm cramps from bleeding the system (someone borrowed my mini vac and I can't remember who). Finally got resistance, continued to bleed, and surprise, surprise, IT WORKED.


Also used the article on rebuild from the how to section, and changed the oil to Rotella syn based on one of many "oil threads". Bike shifts like it's supposed to now. Found that the oil filter had no washer and no SPRING
behind it. Great, back to the dealer. May need to upgrade to the spin on adapter.

I LIKE this site!! Thanks again.

[andyb]

I always roll my bike out with the clutch in and in gear before first starting... saves the clunking by breaking the clutch plates loose from the cold oil.... more noticeable in cooler temps for sure.

Also helps when the bike has been sitting awhile.

Another thing you can do is after starting, let the bike idle while sitting on it.  Stand up, lean the bike hard to the right, and pull the clutch lever in and out a few times, to help get oil on the clutch plates.

[skymasteres]

I appreciate the input, but I may have understated the problem. At a stop, you can't get into neutral. Not even with your hand, from first or second. It will either not move at all, or just crashes "through" neutral like it's still partially engaged. Plus, even warmed up the clutch still tries to "pull" with the lever disengaged.  

I know I'm reviving a dead topic, but I figured it was important for the sake of establishing how common this issue is.
My freshly rebuilt clutch slave started doing this and at first I noticed the hard shift into first. Then the issues with
trying to get into neutral. Then the pact that pushing it in first with the clutch pulled is getting more and more difficult.
Lastly, the thing has started to grind the dogs so I was really looking for a fix.

I'll try the re-bleading and see if that does is.

[FJ_Hooligan]

How old is the clutch line?  If it's the original rubber line, it could be swelling and causing you to lose lever efficiency.

Hooligan

[skymasteres]

How old is the clutch line?  If it's the original rubber line, it could be swelling and causing you to lose lever efficiency.

Hooligan

You know that's a good point. And could very well be the root cause as all of the lines are original to the bike.
The only thing that gives me a moments pause was how wonderfully the clutch performed over the first 800 miles or so.

(I'm going to copy this to my build thread)