Downshifting during panic stop?

[WhiteBeard]

I'm quite new to biking but get around reasonably on my '85 FJ1100. Today I practiced some "panic stops" on my local country road. First question that arose, do you guys downshift even when braking as much possible, or just pull the clutch and concentrate on the braking? When trying the last alternative, I found myself standing by the roadside in fifth gear, trying to shift down but not making it below third gear. Even though taking off again on third turned out not to be such a feat I got a strong feeling this is not the right way to go about doing things...  is it really impossible to downshift when standing still? What is the correct way of acting in such a situation? 

[Mark Olson]

yes downshift if you can , you may have to stop as fast as you can then swerve around a vehicle to go past it so you are not rear ended by the car behind you that can't stop in time.

[SlowOldGuy]

During panic stops, I grab the clutch and concentrate fully on getting the braking done.  Down shifting accomplishes the same thing as increased rear brake application.  But downshifting is a lot harder to modulate in a panic situation..

Once under control, or when the brain processing catches up, then I'll start stirring the transmission.

If you find yourself stopped in 5th gear, try this:
With the clutch lever pulled in, press down on the shifter.
If the gear doesn't want to change, then keep your foot on the shifter and slowly let the clutch out until the trans moves enough to allow the shift.
Repeat as necessary until you're in first gear.

What this does is sync the gear dogs and windows.  You can't just press down 4 times to get from 5th to 1st.  You have to allow the gears to index slightly to mesh the next gear.  Takes some practice, but works every time.

DavidR.

[McKilla Guerilla]

During panic stops, I grab the clutch and concentrate fully on getting the braking done.  Down shifting accomplishes the same thing as increased rear brake application.  But downshifting is a lot harder to modulate in a panic situation..

Once under control, or when the brain processing catches up, then I'll start stirring the transmission.

If you find yourself stopped in 5th gear, try this:
With the clutch lever pulled in, press down on the shifter.
If the gear doesn't want to change, then keep your foot on the shifter and slowly let the clutch out until the trans moves enough to allow the shift.
Repeat as necessary until you're in first gear.

What this does is sync the gear dogs and windows.  You can't just press down 4 times to get from 5th to 1st.  You have to allow the gears to index slightly to mesh the next gear.  Takes some practice, but works every time.

DavidR.

Agree completely with pulling the clutch & braking in an emergency. theres no reason to think about the trans when stopping is the priority.

If I find myself @ a dead stop in the wrong gear I usually rock the bike forward & back while tapping the shifter, the rear wheel turning will allow for enough movement to mesh the next gear. Like David said, each gear has to mesh on the way up as well as the way down

[WhiteBeard]

Thanks for the guidance, feels good to know what to do in such a situation, rather than having to start off on high gear. Was surprised that it was actually quite possible to start on third instead of first, how does this actually affect the clutch and gearbox? Not for everyday use I would guess... I remember being told that starting on second gear when driving a car helps getting a better grip on gravel or snow, does the same apply for bikes?
Also, when making a fast stop, would you reach for both brakes, or just the front...?

[Dan Filetti]

As everyone else says, clutch in, concentrate on the panic stop.  Trust the front probably more than you are, as long as you are squeezing progressively, (not grabbing) you will be shocked how much front you can use without lifting the back, or locking it.   To be clear, if by chance you can get the bike under control and get out of danger, before you actually stop, then you can down-shift all the way to first, as long as the bike is still moving, even 2 mph.

If you're interested, here's a CTRL-C, CTRL-V from recent advice I was offering to another new rider on the list.  It's many of the same skills taught for the MSF class, which I always recommend for new riders:

I would highly recommend you take an MSF class, get some structured training of some sort. At very least, take it much more easily, and for much longer than you think you should.  Spend a few hours in a parking lot practicing throttle control (critical) and braking control (front and back -also critical), including emergency braking, braking while leaned over, (squeeze progressively, -never 'grab') and practice last minute-object avoidance.  Practice tighter and tighter figure 8's/ circles, both directions within a defined space until you can do this at full lock.  Drive the bike over a 2X4 to get used to riding over objects when required.  None of this will be wasted on the street. 

HTH, sorry if it's sounds preachy.

Dan

[SlowOldGuy]

Was surprised that it was actually quite possible to start on third instead of first, how does this actually affect the clutch and gearbox? Not for everyday use I would guess... I remember being told that starting on second gear when driving a car helps getting a better grip on gravel or snow, does the same apply for bikes?
Also, when making a fast stop, would you reach for both brakes, or just the front...?

You can start out in third, I assume it took a lot of clutch slipping.  Motorcycle clutches have a fairly hard life, I'd try to keep the slipping to a minimum.  Do the clutch/shift thing to change gears when stopped in the wrong gear.  Also, try to not ride the bike on gravel or snow!

There is a reason that motorcycles have 2 braking systems.  Use BOTH!  I started riding on dirt, and I use lots of rear braking.  In fact, when coming to a stop, it's the first brake that I apply.  It's followed closely by application of the front brake, but the rear is always the first . 

I'm not one of those riders that constantly covers the front brake with 1 or 2 fingers.  I feel more in control with all my fingers wrapped around the bars.  If I see a situation developing, my first instinct is the cover the rear pedal with my foot and keep my hands free to control the bike.

I usually run through 3 sets of rear brake pads for every front set.  But that's what works for me, everyone is different.

DavidR.

[andyb]

You can start out in any gear, it's just about clutch management.  You'll burn the clutch out if you do it repeatedly and/or with lots of throttle, though.  Worse, the bits that wear off have to go someplace, so usually they take a tour of the motor's bearing areas before getting picked up by the filter, clogging it up.

Use both brakes.  Unless you've got enough traction that you're pulling the rear wheel from the ground, you should be using the rear brake.  It's a proportional thing though, I apply the rear first fairly hard, then add front progressively (sometimes it's pretty quick, though!).  As I add front brake, I'm letting off the back as it locks up from the weight transfer.  Eventually I end up entirely on the front brakes, and usually with the back wheel slewing sideways because it's off the ground.  Whatever you're most comfortable with is the best answer though, as learning new techniques is best done in a non-panic situation.

MSF classes and/or trackdays are the places to learn those new techniques and build better habits.  At some point, it can save your life.

[carsick]

Practice. Just do it every day until your foot/clutch hand does it without thinking. It's a dance, and with enough repetition it's fluid rhythm. If you're thinking about shifting down you're not thinking about full brake power or where you're headed if the braking ain't gonna cut it. I still step on my own toes a bit when flustered, and occasionally find I have neutral instead of first on startup, but it's more fun to play at than most things!