Starter Problem

[OzDamo]

Hi All

In my quest to get my FJ running, I've got the starter motor turning.

But....It only spins the motor for a second then sounds like its disengaged. Once its spun for a second it makes a sound like a car starter does when the solenoid isnt pulling the pinion into the flywheel. I can hear it spinning, just not turning the motor.

It sometimes spins for quite a bit longer.

It's been sat for a few years before today.

Any ideas?

cheers
Damo

[fj1289]

Sounds like the rollers in the starter clutch aren't engaging like they should.  

It is a "split the cases" deal to R&R it.  Just looked at an engine on my bench I'm putting back together rather slowly.  I do not see a way to access the starter clutch to spray penetrating oil in/at it to try to free things up.  I do not have a cure for you, but here's what I'd try (if you haven't already!)

- Remove the spark plugs and try turning the engine over by hand using the bolt in the left end of the crankshaft.  Does it turn freely?  The engine turns forward (same rotation as the wheels).  I'd also try turning it backward some to see if the engages or disengages the starter clutch rollers.  

- Try the starter with the plugs out - maybe less resistance will help?  

- Fresh oil - might also give less resistance?  

- Try starting with 24 volts - https://store.schnitzracing.com/24-volt-starter-wiring-diagram/
The two batteries can be different sizes (two motorcycle batteries, two car batteries, one of each, etc.  Maybe that will "hit" the starter clutch harder and free things up?

If everything else seems right but the starter clutch still won't engage - you might have to split the cases to remove the starter clutch to free up the rollers or replace the rollers and springs.  

[OzDamo]

Sounds like the rollers in the starter clutch aren't engaging like they should. 

It is a "split the cases" deal to R&R it.  Just looked at an engine on my bench I'm putting back together rather slowly.  I do not see a way to access the starter clutch to spray penetrating oil in/at it to try to free things up.  I do not have a cure for you, but here's what I'd try (if you haven't already!)

- Remove the spark plugs and try turning the engine over by hand using the bolt in the left end of the crankshaft.  Does it turn freely?  The engine turns forward (same rotation as the wheels).  I'd also try turning it backward some to see if the engages or disengages the starter clutch rollers. 

- Try the starter with the plugs out - maybe less resistance will help? 

- Fresh oil - might also give less resistance? 

- Try starting with 24 volts - https://store.schnitzracing.com/24-volt-starter-wiring-diagram/
The two batteries can be different sizes (two motorcycle batteries, two car batteries, one of each, etc.  Maybe that will "hit" the starter clutch harder and free things up?

If everything else seems right but the starter clutch still won't engage - you might have to slit the cases to remove the starter clutch to free up the rollers or replace the rollers and springs. 

The starter spins the motor fine.....for only a couple revs. I think its that clutch you mentioned, and with a bit or reading feel I might be in a bad position. I really just wanted to blip the throttle to hear it running then tear into it for the trike.

I've kept trying it to see if it will free up some, and it does seem to be working a lot better....sometimes.

Good enough for me to keep working down the line of things to troubleshoot to get it running.

It's perplexing because it works every time I press the starter, just the duration of success varies.

Cheers
Damo

[kb277]

I'm currently having the same exact issue also. I bought a new starter motor assuming it was that but I haven't attempted to change that yet as I believe it's the same clutch issue (starter clutch) I haven't began to strip it down yet and down really want to tbh. I'm wondering if I bump it and cycle some heat back through the engine will it free up the issue. The bike has been sat for about a year unused.

[FJmonkey]

My 89' has the same issue. Worse when cold and with thicker oil.

[kb277]

I'm going to try a block of wood and hammer to "knock some sense into it"

[FJmonkey]

I'm going to try a block of wood and hammer to "knock some sense into it"

The starter clutch is slowly failing. Failing to engage (just spin) may suggest something is stuck. However, it engages like it should, then lets go. I do not think a block of wood and impact will have any useful effect. Where were you planning to place the impacts?

[kb277]

My thought where either onto end of starter as it spun or from above onto outer case approx where the starter clutch would be (I have no airbox as it is just cones and the tank can be off for access.

It spins and then lets go so I assume a spring has become weak on the rollers maybe. Who knows, I just don't want the hassle of a full strip down for a winter hack.

[Sparky84]

Do you think it's worth swapping starter motors, just to eliminate that out.

[FJmonkey]

Do you think it's worth swapping starter motors, just to eliminate that out.

If the starter spins but the engine is not turning, then the starter clutch is not engaging. The starter seems to be working in this case.

[kb277]

So I gave it a whack and a tap and it didn't help....too much BUT...I did catch it and get it to fire up on the off chance, I let the bike warm right up and held the revs at various ranges from 7-8k down to tick over (letting oil circulate) and low and behold it starts fine every time since, let it go stone cold again and away it fired...

I would suggest before splitting the engine that if it has been sat a while (a year or more) you could either get it to catch or simply bump start the bike and run it to heat cycle everything and get oil round everywhere again and see if that helps, it seems to have done the trick in my instance...

Now to move onto the other pressing jobs such as suspension and a fresh oil and filter etc.

[FJmonkey]

Awesome, a low cost fix. Lets hope it stays fixed. Now on to the other list of items....

[kb277]

That was short lived...starter clutch is playing up again.

Typically I've just replaced the rocker gasket and bolt gaskets, head stock bearings as they were badly notched, repaired the sump plug threads, rebuilt forks with new seals and oil etc, stripped and cleaned brakes, replaced rear shocker, various other jobs it needed doing and then built it all back together to find the starter clutch issue has returned to haunt me....

Guess I'm splitting the cases. Just bought the full gasket kit which annoyingly has a rocker cover gasket etc in there too. I only rebuilt the carbs last year and now have another gasket set for them too.

Arrrrgh.

[kb277]

So I got the engine out and the cases split today, armed ready with my new starter clutch spring and cup kit to sort it.

Only to find the actual outer casing has split completely on the starter clutch. Gutted, but a new/second hand one order from fleabay this afternoon..and yes, I will be putting new springs, rollers and cups into it before I rebuild.

Everything else internally looks immaculate for a 50+k bike. Not a sign of west on anything except one split seal on the underside of the barrel liners.  I've a complete seal kit for the rebuild anyway so I'm going to replace them all, the valve stem seals and everything else as I go so it's good for another 50+k miles/20+ years.

1 seized bolt was all I had to contend with.