Helmet Ratings

[racerrad8]

Well, I got my new Cycle Gear catalog yesterday and they are pushing their safety equipment line; BiLT.

What I am more specifically looking for are thought on ratings. I have been racing since I was 10 and all of the sanctioning bodies to date require a SNELL rated helmet. They are a independent helmet testing company that exceeds DOT standards. To receive a SNELL rating for a helmet it must pass a battery of tests.

DOT ratings are government standards applied to the safety of the helmet, but the testing and compliance is completed by the manufacture. I understand DOT will conduct tests of a specific helmet brand or style following the undetermined amount of complaints about the helmet.

I stopped by Cycle Gear and looked at the BiLT helmets and picked one up to take it home to compare it to my SNELL approved racecar helmet(s).

I must say the racecar helmet does not have a removeable liner, so I can only pull back to see the interior rigid foam protection.

I must say the quality of the helmet appears as good as my SNELL approved helmet in regard to the protection of the head by the rigid foam coverage area.

While I was at C/G the salesman was telling me they did not send the helmets to SNELL for rating as it is not a recognized rating in foreign countries. He said they were in the middle of the ECE helmet testing process and to date the testing has all past, but they cannot become ECE rated until the produce (X) amount of helmets without a "non-pass" in the production run. One thing he did say was that the ECE testing is done from helmets from the production run and they are taken at random during the manufacturing process.

He went on the say that SNELL testing of a helmet is by helmets supplied by the manufacture for testing purposes and once they are certified they are not tested randomly, only annually.

I did a little reading the ECE testing procedures and it was explained on a few different locations just as the salesman explained.

I know people are very specific and decisive about their favorite helmet (just like oil & filters), but I'm looking at buying an actual M/C helmetinstead of using my car helmet. I also understand the premises, "you get what you pay for, but if the testing standards are met then why not get whatever you want if it meets the standards?

I must say I am leaning to a Seven-0-Seven helmet because it is SNELL rated and that is all I have ever had on my head and it does give me a sense of comfort & security.

I am just looking for a little feedback before I make my final decision

[Dan Filetti]

Motorcyclist did a "real world" rating of helmets last year or the year before -can't recall exactly.  It was fairly controversial as they were claiming that many most of the Snell rated helmets did not fare as well as the non-Snell DOT helmets.  They posited that this was actually because of the Snell Rating. 

Specifically, the Snell rating apparently tests multiple strikes in the same place on the helmet.  Whereas, according to Motorcyclist, in a "real world" accident the chances of this are virtually zero.  They focused on G-Forces transmission to the internals of the helmet, with a something like 200G's being the point where you're going to sustain brain injury.  They tested maybe 20 helmets, including $1,000 Shoeis and Arai's, Shuberts and the best was the Z1R DOT (non Snell) for, now get this: $90.  Fairly eye opening.

Having said that, I ride with a Shoei RF1000, very much a Snell rated helmet. 

I may be able to dig that article out, or maybe there's a copy on line.  If you would like to see it, and can't find it, let me know and I'll try to dig it out.  I have 1000's of old motorcycle mags.  I never throw any away, and I know I had this one so it is in one of the boxes...

Dan

[racerrad8]

I think this is the article; http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html

Prior to this read I had read in several other article that the polycarbonate helmets were softer and helped absorb more energy prior to brain injury; i.e. M/C rider head to asphalt.

I understand that a harder shell might be required in a racecar where the head can slam back & forth against the roll bars which would replicate the dual test Snell completes.

Thanks for that article, please keep them coming.

Randy - RPM

[Firehawk068]

I am with Dan on this one.
I love my RF-1000. It fits my head very well, and changing the visor from Tinted to Clear takes all of about 15 seconds tops!
I chose to have a Snell rated helmet due to the fact that I sometimes use it for double-duty.
I Autocross my Firehawk on occasion, and once in a while make a pass or 2 down the strip.
SCCA requires the Snell rating, and the car is quick enough that NHRA requires me to have it too.
The only complaint I have about it, is that I wish it were a little quieter (wind noise)
I would say, choose the one that is the most comfortable, and fits your head the best.
I am sure they are all quite safe.    

I am also with Dan, in that I never throw away my old magazines...............My Wife hates me for that

[Flynt]

Randy,

My limited experience has been to find the helmet that fits well.  Some have Arai heads, others are Shoei heads and so on.  Once you find your fit, ventilation is the next criteria for me.  I go for the model that has the most flow and flow control.  Others focus on ease of operation or overall simplicity or cosmetics or shape or whatever...  you can fill in your criteria.  I have found "you get what you pay for" applies if you want the bells and whistles.  

My guess is that all the modern helmets with at least DOT certification are going to do what a modern helmet can in your unique circumstance.  You should just get what fits well and works for you.  I wear a Shoei RF-1100 and we have another for my wife.  Excellent helmet for comfort and ventilation.  They're Snell rated as well, so I hope they are safe.

Frank

[simi_ed]

I'd like to add that no matter what lid you get, Cycle Gear is a good place to go buy.  They have a replacement/exchange program that can't be beat.  If you don't like what you bought they'll change it out for something else, essentially until you're happy.  I needed to take full advantage to get my wife a lid that fit and was quiet enough and comfortable too.

[Alf]

After a great part of motorbike rider wearing Shoei helmets (X8, RF800, RF 900, Syncrotec, XSP...), in 2006 I tested a Shark RSF helmet. Amazing!!!!
Much more quieter than the Shoei, the visor fitting is perfect...And it is half the price

[andyb]

I think there are no losers amongst the upper echelon of helmets (Arai, Shoei, Suomy, etc), unless you're paying for frills that aren't necessarily protection (bluetooth, for example).

Arai has a slight edge on everyone else in my mind, but only for their customer support.  Don't think I've ever heard anything bad from someone who had to deal with the company!

I wear an RF1100, and absolutely adore it.  On the track, part of NHRA/IHRA tech is that it must be Snell certified within the last two cycles--a SN2010 or SN2005 rating can be used currently, but a SN2000 cannot.

As far as DOT vs Snell, the article referenced is a good one.  I think it misses a point or two though, and if you really want to learn more about protection, read up on international racing, as you have to have different specs for each sanctioning body.

When you're shopping for a helmet, things to consider:

-Fit.  Doesn't matter how good the protection is if the fit is crap.  Too big and it'll rotate on your head, tight spots lead to headache and distraction as well as fatigue. 
-Appearance.  You want something that you're comfortable with wearing.  Bright pink with rainbows and ponies on it might not be appropriate for you.  Or worse, it might be.
-Ventilation.  More isn't always better.  Some riders will have a warm weather helmet and a cold weather helmet, so it's about meeting your needs rather than more = better.
-Noise.  Wind noise is amazingly fatiguing.  That can lead to errors of judgement, which can lead to a wreck.  I'd rather have a lower level of protection but more silence, as at the end of a long ride I'd be happier avoiding the accident than living through it.
-Customer service.  Can you get parts?  Can you get satisfaction if something breaks through no fault of your own?  Last thing you need is to wear something that isn't quite right because the company didn't stand behind their stuff, or worse, you put it on and remember how they screwed you over on xxxx and start your ride pissed off, not a good thing.
-Weight.  Lighter is better to a degree.  I've got a great big melon atop my shoulders, so my neck is shockingly strong, a little more weight doesn't bother me.  One of my friends wears his hats in size "munchkin" and feels truckloads better after a ride if he's wearing his lightest helmet.  Stiff neck muscles mean a harder time turning your head to check for traffic aaaaallll the way over there, as well as more fatigue (see above).
-Price.  For the most part, it does seem to me like you get what you pay for, within limits.  Spending $100 extra for a pretty vinyl wrap is a bit silly perhaps, so start by comparing street price on brands for simple gloss paintjobs.  Also, consider looking at MSRP vs actual selling price, seems to me that a big difference is more common on crappy goods of all types (by %, not gross amount).  As a subset of price, remember replacement faceshields, as a finely scratched shield means more glare/hazing, so you get eyestrain and fatigue.  The RF1100 is horrible in this respect, $90 for a mirrored visor, fooey!

I used a $68 M2R helmet for many, many years.  Cheap junk, but it was what I could afford not only initially but also afford parts for (clear and smoked shields were $20, shiny ones were $40, iirc).  Bits of it broke, the fit wasn't great, it was heavy, noisy, terrible lift at high speeds, etc.  It also saved my ass a few times, and yes, I wore it after falling off.

I'm often amazed by folks that customize every detail of their bike, but skip their gear.  With my crap helmet, it had a horrible pinch point right at the front of my forehead.  So, I pulled the liner out, took a heated spoon, and reshaped things by about 1/8".  Some trial and error, and i ended up with a crappy helmet that fit me very, very well.  Sure, arguably I removed some of the safety, but I gained in comfort and fatigue levels.  This may have prevented an accident (or two?) completely.  You can get replacement cheek pads in multiple sizes for the better helmets as well, the same idea stands.

Because I live in IL, helmets are optional, and it seems like the only people who wear them are BMW riders, and me.  (The exception being if I'm just going around the block and listening for something specific after making a tuning adjustment or troubleshooting.  If it's longer than around the block, I put it on.)

Randy:  In your racecars, isn't having the rollcage padded part of tech requirements?  I think that's part of chassis certification in NHRA.  And it should be padded anyhow, it hurts like a bastard to bop your head against it when getting in or out!

I would tell you to try on a few different Arai's, and a few different Shoei's.  You can't go wrong with anything that either company makes, but you can if you get something that doesn't fit well.  Earplugs can solve noise problems, and you must have a big head from all the praise you get around this forum, so weight shouldn't be a huge issue for you   If you've got a good friend at a dealership, you may be able to con them into getting a dealer sample for you, and that'd put the price about 20% below dealer cost.  For example, my RF1100 has a MSRP of $525 or so, a street value of $475ish, but I got it at 5% over dealer cost (borrowed a friend's employee discount) and paid $320.  Had I gotten it as a sample... you can do the math.  I will say that for my money it is not worth nearly $500, but I'm hugely satisfied with it at $410 (including the mirrored shield), and most of that is due to the nearly perfect out-of-the-box fit.  (I'm biased--I require a ridiculous hat size, so things that are off the shelf nearly never fit me at all... i.e., adjustable baseball caps?  Not a f'king chance.  So I was inordinately pleased that it fit immediately when i tried it on, without the usual modifications being required.)

Some dealers will have a helmet representative come in weekly or so to take the dealer's orders and such.  Ask and find out, they're a great resource person to have help you find something that fits properly, and knowing what's available to help improve the fit.

[SlowOldGuy]

I've been wearing an $85 HJC (CL-12 Fusion) for the last few years and it has been the best helmet I ever owned or wore.  It was on sale at the time and the fit was better than the Shoeis that I used previously.

I recently bought another HJC (FC-15?) and this one is even better.  It was on sale for $125 from the local Honda shop.  It is the quietest helmet that I've ever used.  It's as quiet WITHOUT ear plugs as my Scorpion EX800 is WITH ear plugs.  The Scorpion is the noisiest helmet I've ever used, it seem to amplify wind noise.

SNELL was extremely upset over the original Motorcyclist article many years ago.  They pulled their advertising and refused to engage in any discussion about their testing.  Motorcyclist offered to work with them to update their testing/standards but they would have none of it.  Just like a bunch of stubborn politicians, they turned their backs to logic and scientific facts and hid behind an attitude of "that's how we've always done business and we don't want to change."

A few years ago they finally updated their standards and testing to be more in line with reality.  Personally, I wouldn't go out of my way or spend extra money on for a SNELL rating.  Everytone has already listed the more important factors.

DavidR.

[ddlewis]

I think there are no losers amongst the upper echelon of helmets (Arai, Shoei, Suomy, etc), unless you're paying for frills that aren't necessarily protection (bluetooth, for example).

Arai has a slight edge on everyone else in my mind, but only for their customer support.  Don't think I've ever heard anything bad from someone who had to deal with the company!..

Arai makes a very nice helmet no doubt.  Too bad they screw it up with that POS shield swap system.  I have an Arai that is the ideal helmet for my head.  Best fitting most comfortable helmet I've ever had.. but I won't buy another until they change that  "Super Adsis" system they call it.  Any so called system that involves flexing plastic is no good.  I've replaced 3 side pod covers and 1 plate in the past 5 years.  Whenever I'm far from home I'm afraid to try to switch shields in case it breaks again.    It's a deal breaker for a $400+ helmet.

[Flyover Country Joe]

Randy,
          I bought my wife & myself a pair of Seven-0-Seven Centurions from Cycle Gear about a month ago. It is the most comfortable helmet I've ever owned. Finish is pretty good, it is kinda noisy, but I wear earplugs regardless of the helmet. I give it 
                                                               Just my .02
                                                                           Joe
1990 Bruise

[junkyardroad]

I wear a Nolan N-102 flip front on my FJ. Great fit and versatility. My Shoei dirtbike helmet would be great if my head was round. Otherwise its a 19 year old HJC half bucket and sunglasses.

Went for a cruise today, in fact, 4 of the six bikes have been out already this weekend.

what was the question again?

[terryk]

Snell 2010 addressed the manner of force dispersion, peak and dwell time, for a strike. This softened the distribution curve and more broadly distributed forces in a collission, like DOT and ECE. SNELL remains the gold standard for protection in my opinion and they do still require the manufacturer to send units for test througout the year, and buy on the open market and test randomly throughout the year. Looking at the inner shell only gets you so far, impact distribution engineering is very complex. Trust your head to SNELL.

[Dan Filetti]

Trust your head to SNELL.

Motorcyclist Magazine essentially dispelled this idea a year or two ago.  I'll paste here what I wrote about this before:

"The way I read that Motorcyclist article was that Snell was not bad, the standards called for under the Snell certification force over-engineered helmets that withstand multiple strikes on the same location on the helmet, which in turn requires increased rigidity of the helmets, which in-turn increased the g-force translated to the head (bad).  If you replace your helmet after an impact accident, as is common sense, then it's not so much of an issue.  The chances that you'll take a hit to the same spot more than once in a single accident are apparently strikingly low.  So if Snell forces more rigidity and Higher G's for an uncommon scenario, the question seems as though it becomes, is it all that helpful?  Again, not to say it's bad..."

Read the thread here:  http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1657.0

Dan


Edit: Dude, you really do seem like a piad cheer leader....  So what in you talking point memo is SNELL's official response to the unlikely multiple-strike criticism?