Better Riding Techniques – Left Foot Down Only, Please!

[Earl Svorks]

I cannot help but notice that the strongest voices on this Better Technique thread belong to the riders who are , shall we say the journeymen among us. You've all been doing things your own way for any number of decades. It's true that you didn't arrive at your riding habits by accident. You all have learned to do things in a way that you are comfortable with,
methods  proven to be the right way.
  I don't know how many of you are tradesmen, but I can tell you from personal experience, many times over ,that very seldom will two (let's say) mechanics ('cause that's what I am)
agree on the way to approach a problem go about the  repair job. Both of the differing prognosis
(if the man knows his stuff) will probably end up with a proper repair job. So,is either one wrong, if they wind up with a car that runs ? 
  In spite of what the academics would like us to believe, neither riding your bike ,nor motor mechanics are exact sciences.
The journeymen shouldn't waste time arguing about how the apprentice should hold his
hammer when he needs to know what a lean condition smells like.

[ribbert]

I cannot help but notice that the strongest voices on this Better Technique thread belong to the riders who are , shall we say the journeymen among us. You've all been doing things your own way for any number of decades. It's true that you didn't arrive at your riding habits by accident. You all have learned to do things in a way that you are comfortable with,
methods  proven to be the right way.
 

I have been riding so long I don't consciously think about most of what I do on a bike and when I started there were no instructions or procedures to commit to memory. Having advocated both feet down when this was recently discussed I suddenly became aware at the weekend that I was stopped with one foot down, my right foot. I always hold the bike with the front brake if required anyway. Over the course of the day I realised a few other things. I do this because I frequently use the stop to do things, adjust a mirror, flip my visor up, scratch something, put my glasses away etc which requires putting it in neutral momentarily. What I also noticed was I only do it in the country and ALWAYS put both feet down in traffic.

As an exercise, I pulled up on a white line in a quiet street and put one foot down, I then moved off and drifted about a metre to the side on which I had my foot down before regaining the white line. I repeated this with the bike uncomfortably close to the balance point (much more vertical than you would normally want to be with only one foot down) and still drifted a couple of feet to the right. You CANNOT take off in a straight line from one foot down.

99.9% of the time I am pulled up in traffic I am between two lanes of cars, I simply do not have the room to drift that far off my line without hitting or getting dangerously close to the car beside me.

Another consideration is that here, we drive on the left of the road. If you were to pull off to the side of any road here, particularly country or steeply cambered roads, you left foot would be the highest off the ground and in many cases unable to even reach it and the most likely to find unstable ground. Also, when pulling back onto the road from grass or gravel of whatever from the LHS, it is you right foot you want dragging until both wheels are back on a solid surface and no longer likely to slip.
In countries where you drive on the RHS of the road much of this would make sense to put your left foot down. In other words, you put the foot down that gives you the most stability, be it right, left or both or if it's only a technical stop and you feel like being a smartarse, none! What ever the circumstances dictate.

I agree with Earls sentiments and while the physics of motorbike handling and braking are universally agreed on I don't think the same can be said for basic procedures such as stopping, starting, mounting, dismounting etc or that it really matters other than perhaps to people who are new to bikes and do need a starting point on the very basics.

The one thing I don't understand that Zwartie said was why the emphasis on holding the bike with the back brake instead of the front. I, and I imagine most others, have no trouble operating the front brake and throttle independent of each other with great finesse with the one hand. I wonder if this is a hangover from drum brakes that required a 4 finger pull of sufficient force to hold the bike (particularly uphill) that prevented subtle use of the throttle as well. One of the reasons given was to activate the brake light. Front brakes have done this since the introduction of discs. I also wonder if the Police are taught this because of the array of gadgets on their dashboard that need a free hand to operate at a moments notice, Stainsy?

Noel

[Earl Svorks]

 As for the front brake vs rear brake when stopped ,it seems to me that if you were to be hit from behind (at such a speed that you might survive the initial impact) the motorcycle would be more likely to just move forward, front wheel rolling therefore steerable, regardless of the rear brake. Your foot would have moved away from the brake pedal any way.
  Conversely, if the front brake was being held on in similar circumstances, it seems to me that the bike would be on it's side immediately.

[Burns]

"if you were to be hit from behind (at such a speed that you might survive the initial impact) it would not make a tinker's dam bit of difference which (if any) brake was engaged.  The mass of the auto/truck would render that decision moot.

[Flynt]

You CANNOT take off in a straight line from one foot down.

This, in a nutshell, is what drives me crazy with your comments sometimes Noel.  You could say "I" CANNOT...  since you have data to back that statement.  Saying "You" expands that to all of us and you have no data to assert that.  Just because, I stopped on the lines (between cars, I always split if there's space) every chance I had on the way home tonight.  I pulled away (from my usual left foot down, right foot on rear brake "ready" position) and stayed on the line every time there was a line and, as usual, had no trouble keeping clear of the cars on either side.

I can't balance my motorcycle on the front wheel while sitting on the handlebars, but maybe you can...  I wouldn't know unless we had some data to prove the statement that "we" can't do it, so I would never assert that "you" CANNOT do it.  I know it can be done since Monkey stops that way routinely....

Frank

[FJmonkey]

I know it can be done since Monkey stops that way routinely....

Frank

Frank, why did you have to drag me into this? That used to be confidential information.... "Loose lips sink ships" 

[Mike 86 in San Dimas]

Always wondered what it would be like to actually put both feet down...and reach the ground.

[FJmonkey]

Always wondered what it would be like to actually put both feet down...and reach the ground.

I know, hard to find platform motorcycle boots, maybe Kiss has some left over stock... This might work for you... Boots

I think that might be the Alpine Star logo on the boots..... Shifting gears will be a real bitch though...

[ribbert]

Just because, I stopped on the lines (between cars, I always split if there's space) every chance I had on the way home tonight.  I pulled away (from my usual left foot down, right foot on rear brake "ready" position) and stayed on the line every time there was a line ............. I know it can be done since Monkey stops that way routinely....

Frank

Yes, of course you can, Monkey can, everybody can, even I can. Taking off in a dead straight line from one foot down is not difficult and there are occasions when I do just that but in my opinion it compromises the jump I like to get on the cars when the lights change.

The reasons I believe this is the case are not worth discussing as it will only provide more fuel for those wishing to pick rather than lead into a sensible discussion. Had I known someone was waiting to pounce I would have chosen my words more carefully and offered a more detailed explanation of what I was referring to.

The incomplete scenario I described, misguided belief that we are all bound by the Laws of Physics and consequently my inclusion of others in my assertions, lack of data, and it would appear, my posts in general, has upset Frank.

My apologies Frank for doing your head in with my posts but I'm flattered after all these years you have commented on one of them, directly.

I admit when I'm out of my league and as the finer points of riding apparently elude me, I will defer to the more experienced riders on the forum in this matter.

Noel

[the fan]

Noel,

Take a deep breath and unbunch those panties.

I am sure there are many on here who apreciate your input, Hell it made me think how I handle stops (feet, break...) Still don't really know but plan to get in some riding this weekend and will take notes. Seriously, I can't remember which foot I put down or which brake I use to hold myself in place, although I probably put both down most of the time simply to stretch out my legs a bit.

Your information is good, even if only to start a discussion. The only real issue I see is your delivery. Whether you intend to or not you come off as a self proclaimed expert, and are not doing yourself any favors by using arguements like "It's Physics" . You may be right but absolutismis the hallmark of internet trolls and online forum educated 'experts'. I doubt you are either of these but you need to remember that the majority of folks who read this have never met you and thier experiences may be vastly different than yours.

You sound like you are belittling the experience of others when I dount this is the case. I suggest proofreading your posts of this type after a few minutes of doing somthing else. I do this and am often surprised at how much of a condesending prick I come off as.

I intentionally did not filter this post.

If you would read some of my posts from when I was more active you would probably see me as a loose cannon on the bike, and that is partially true. However I have a pretty extensive background in the sport. Aside from the fact that I started riding in 1975, or my 25 years of racing in many disciplines, I have done the following:

• 1994-2000 coached at an advanced offroad riding/racing school
  
  1999-2004 Co Owned and coached a youth motocross school working with kids ranging from 4-16 years old, many of whom won multiple regional and national titles
  
  2004- 2011 Coached with several track day groups, specializing in teaching novice riders to ride well on the track and to understand proper bike set up. I also worked with intermediate riders to help improve thier track skills and help them to ride faster with less affort in order to reach thier goals

Since 2011 I have been very busy with my career and simply do not have the time to spend trackside. I still coach occasionally and in fact have a standing offer to coach at Mid Ohio.

My point is this, You never know who is on the other side of the monitor.

[Flynt]

My point is this, You never know who is on the other side of the monitor.

+1 and thanks...  My particular affliction is being a born engineer with degrees and a lifetime of relying on the data (it's a weakness sometimes).  I get axle wrapped by arguments based on faux data and, seriously, feel that my head will pop if I don't vent a bit.  I've actually used the phrase "In God we trust, all others bring data..." (speaking of being a condescending prick).

Noel - no offense intended and I wasn't waiting to pounce.  Please continue to pressurize my head and don't recoil if I vent occasionally.

Frank

[ribbert]

Always wondered what it would be like to actually put both feet down...and reach the ground.

http://youtu.be/kRFyw57o_Ic