handlebar risers, or ?

[Capn Ron]

As I was re-reading this thread and taking a look at the underside of my top clamp, there does seem to be room to work in a steel sleeve in your plan.  The top of the plate is at two levels, so you'll have to work that into whatever clamp design you work out as well.

Could you use a West System epoxy on the underside utilizing steel fibers instead of fiberglass?  Pulling apart steel wool should suffice.  Also, cross-hatching the aluminum structure on the underside will promote a good bond.

Sounds like you could engineer in enough of a safety margin here.  At first pass, I was picturing four drilled holes with 6mm through bolts!   

Cap'n Ron. . .

[red]

As I was re-reading this thread and taking a look at the underside of my top clamp, there does seem to be room to work in a steel sleeve in your plan.  The top of the plate is at two levels, so you'll have to work that into whatever clamp design you work out as well.
Could you use a West System epoxy on the underside utilizing steel fibers instead of fiberglass?  Pulling apart steel wool should suffice.  Also, cross-hatching the aluminum structure on the underside will promote a good bond.
Sounds like you could engineer in enough of a safety margin here.  At first pass, I was picturing four drilled holes with 6mm through bolts!   
Cap'n Ron. . .

Cap'n Ron,

I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project.  The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there.  I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond.  Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders).  The yield strength on that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.

Cheers,
Red

[Capn Ron]

Cap'n Ron,

I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project.  The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there.  I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond.  Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders).  The yield strength on that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.

Cheers,
Red

Hey Red,

I've taken a liking to your project...mostly because I like doing things that most people say can't be done.  Sometimes (and most times on this forum), I'm well out-classed on the experience front and should really listen to those that have gone before me who say it's a no-go.  Outside of that, I take on a "how hard can this be?" attitude and set about solving things.  Sometimes I fail...but slightly more often than not, I succeed.  In all cases, I learn....and I apply that to the next project.  Priceless!

I like your thinking on aluminum fibers to avoid the dissimilar metals problem.  Whenever I put aluminum on the drill press, I should start saving the long spiral strands!  At some point, you will have steel sleeves, but if all is encased in epoxy, galvanic corrosion is not likely to be an issue.  I'm also encouraged by the fact that you fly hang gliders...You clearly know the value of the strength of a single bolt in the grand scheme of your well-being.  

When I was around 15, I went up to a local mountain in Upstate New York to take a hang gliding lesson.  There was some momentary lapse in my parent's protective side and I took full advantage of this.  When I got there, I was told it was too windy to proceed and to come back the next weekend.  By then, my parents had come to their "parental" senses and it was a no-go.  Throughout my life, I have dabbled in flight here and there...Cessna 172s...even a Robinson R-22, but I truly believe that if the weather was calmer that first day...and I caught the wind in the wing of a hang glider, my life...and career...would have been aviation centric.

Cap'n Ron. . .

[red]

Cap'n Ron,
I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project.  The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there.  I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond.  Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders).  The yield strength on that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.
Cheers,
Red

Hey Red,
I've taken a liking to your project...mostly because I like doing things that most people say can't be done.
I like your thinking on aluminum fibers to avoid the dissimilar metals problem.  Whenever I put aluminum on the drill press, I should start saving the long spiral strands!  At some point, you will have steel sleeves, but if all is encased in epoxy, galvanic corrosion is not likely to be an issue.  I'm also encouraged by the fact that you fly hang gliders...You clearly know the value of the strength of a single bolt in the grand scheme of your well-being.  
When I was around 15, I went up to a local mountain in Upstate New York to take a hang gliding lesson.  When I got there, I was told it was too windy to proceed and to come back the next weekend.  By then, my parents had come to their "parental" senses and it was a no-go.  Throughout my life, I have dabbled in flight here and there...Cessna 172s...even a Robinson R-22, but I truly believe that if the weather was calmer that first day...and I caught the wind in the wing of a hang glider, my life...and career...would have been aviation centric.
Cap'n Ron. . .

Cap'n Ron,

Aluminum matting comes as aluminum-wool (the aluminum version of steel wool), and even as woven scrubbing pads (used by the corrosion-control guys).  After some thought, I can use solid aluminum as bushing stock as well, so the only steel will be in the bolts.  AN bolts (the aircraft standard) are cadmium-plated, so they will get along very nicely with aluminum, and hey, I cheat; I car-wax the AN bolts as an extra defense against moisture and abrasion.
Yeah, it's safe to say, flying has "ruined" my life     and it has unexpected dangers; you may walk into a pole, while watching the clouds (BTDT).  They say, one day you have to decide whether to grow up, or to be a pilot, because you can't do both.      Sounds like you went to Ellenville, which is known for wild winds at times.  When the winds are good, though, that place is amazing.  I moved to the Rockies (the Wasatch Range) early on, and never looked back.  Now we can fly on a par with the eagles and hawks, in silence.  In the gentle lifting air of a mountain evening (when they have the kids fed), they will sometimes fly in formation with us.

Cheers,
Red

[Burns]

I'm definitely not a metallurgist...or a mechanical engineer, but looking at the FZ1 top clamp:



It sure looks like a lot of effort was made to distribute load into the aluminum...  Appears to be a sleeved steel insert...with rubber bushing material cushioning the inner steel sleeve which then takes the bolt.

Looking at it from the underside:



There is a *lot* of aluminum casting there to support those inserts.  It looks like measures were taken to strengthen the aluminum substantially AND avoid any steel bolt to aluminum movement/contact.

Not calling this one at all because I'm not qualified and I'm a bit afraid to...but I probably wouldn't ride yours if you do end up doing it.   

Cap'n Ron. . .

While I share the good Captain's concern for structural integrity, and for that reason question relying on two screws to take the load as some of the proposals require, I suspect that the webbing issue noted is more a weight saving thing than a load distribution thing. The top could have been cast as a sold piece had Yamaha so chosen.

On an older thread a member welded up those webbings on his top clamp (making it a solid piece) and drilled it to take "standard" perches for 7/8" bars, which allows total freedom of choice for the bars. New clutch/brake/throttle lines are required to get substantial change.

Keep in mind that any significant change in riding position will probably put the rider out of the wind protection zone provided by the stock fairing.  Having just mounted the Power Bronze Flip screen - which is at the top end of the "bolt on" wind screens for added wind protection - I suspect that much change in bar location trades one comfort issue for another, potentially much more expensive one.

The "whole enchilada" of dialing in a personal comfort zone could be pricey and it will change the character of the FJ. That's the route that I'm taking but with cost eyes open.


At under a hundred bucks total, while far from ideal,  the 3/4" you get from RPM's risers is very probably the off-the-shelf best bang for the buck.

[Capn Ron]

Aluminum matting comes as aluminum-wool (the aluminum version of steel wool), and even as woven scrubbing pads (used by the corrosion-control guys).  After some thought, I can use solid aluminum as bushing stock as well, so the only steel will be in the bolts.  AN bolts (the aircraft standard) are cadmium-plated, so they will get along very nicely with aluminum, and hey, I cheat; I car-wax the AN bolts as an extra defense against moisture and abrasion.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on this!  I deal with corrosion issues on a regular basis in the salt water environment of the Pacific Ocean and anything you can do to help the cause will make a difference!  I never thought about aluminum wool, but it makes sense...I have brass, bronze and stainless steel wool in the shop.

Sounds like you went to Ellenville, which is known for wild winds at times.  I moved to the Rockies (the Wasatch Range) early on, and never looked back.  Now we can fly on a par with the eagles and hawks, in silence.  In the gentle lifting air of a mountain evening (when they have the kids fed), they will sometimes fly in formation with us.

Cheers,
Red

Flying with the birds sounds idyllic and I'm quite familiar with the Wasatch Range!  My girlfriend's family is up in Morgan County and I'm actually riding there right after the WCR.  My missed moment in the air was in the tiny town of Greenwich, NY, well above Albany...I think it was just a few guys that got together every weekend and wanted to introduce more people to flying.

I get my dose of Bernoulli Effect on the sailboat and there's a moment...after you've set the boat up...motored out of the harbor...picked a point of sail and then shut down the diesel.  It's a very calming moment and even after all these years, it still has an awe about it.

Back on topic...I see that you're looking to get a spare top triple clamp to mess around with.  I replaced mine a few years ago during a rebuild because a previous owner drilled holes in it (for mounting switches).  I just looked on Ebay and wow they are going cheap with a lot to pick from!  We'll expect pictures of this endeavor.   

Cap'n Ron. . .

[ribbert]

Is it possible that all that engineered strength in the top yoke is for the load the forks apply to it and not the handlebars?  The most load the bars ever see is manoeuvring around the garage.
Those rubber sleeved collars with single mount bolts were popular back in the 70's. One pissy little screw holding the bars on. I don't recall any falling off.

Think about how much load you put on the bars, yes their role is important but I don't think the mounts need to be overly robust to do the job safely.

Noel

[simi_ed]

I think I put a LOT more force on the top triple when riding downhill, passenger in place and decelerating from a but too much throttle.  I sure feel the load in my shoulder & arms, and I know I cannot grip the tank that hard.  I started to worry about that shitty little 6mm bolt shearing (anti-rotation bolt in the bars) until I realized there's also the clamp of the bars to the fork tubes.