Front chain sprocket nut will not come off

[Flynt]

You would be amazed how much torque is lost in this springiness in the bar...

You might be amazed to find no torque is LOST except when the bar is actually deflecting...  once the bar is bent and you're putting say 50 pounds of force on the handle 2 feet from the socket, you are applying 100ftlb of torque.  The pointer style torque wrenched work on the principle that a given amount of torque will deflect the bar a precise amount...  more torque = more deflection...  but the torque is still only countered by the socket and thus the nut or bolt your twisting.

What is lost is the "impact" of suddenly ramping the torque up...  that's the purpose of the impact gun.

Frank

[ribbert]

You might be amazed to find no torque is LOST except when the bar is actually deflecting...

Frank

No, I wouldn't be amazed at all and theoretically you are correct. However my comments were more to do with the practical application of force with the available tools.  A rigid bar will get better results than a springy one and neither (as I mentioned) as effective as an impact gun, or chisel, for the reasons you outlined.

If you are talking a progressive application of force to a bar you are correct but more often than not we jerk or hit the end of the bar to momentarily increase the torque.
If you lunge on the end of a bar with your body weight, a percentage of that ramped up torque will dissipate into the bar flex, if the bar is rigid 100% of it goes to the tool.


Noel

[andyb]

You can arguably put the load on a big flexshaft bar and then tap at it with a little hammer to good effect. 

If there's red locktite on it, it doesn't matter, it won't be coming off without heat.  Significant heat.  There's a reason why it's called "permanent" threadlocker.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least that a prior owner didn't know this, and put you in a very difficult place.

If that is what is on it, your options are a bit limiting.  Put a torch to it and expect to destroy the seal, or cut the nut off carefully, and try to cause minimal damage to the output shaft.  Not much room to work in there, and any forces that you're applying can go straight into the gearset if you're not careful.  Just be careful, as you don't want to get into trans damage.

I don't remember if the seal is replaceable without splitting the cases, but by looking at a picture of one, I'm thinking that it's doable.  In which case, get the area nice and clean before you start, and break out the propane.

[ribbert]

You can arguably put the load on a big flexshaft bar and then tap at it with a little hammer to good effect. 

If there's red locktite on it, it doesn't matter, it won't be coming off without heat.  Significant heat.  There's a reason why it's called "permanent" threadlocker.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least that a prior owner didn't know this, and put you in a very difficult place.

If that is what is on it, your options are a bit limiting.  Put a torch to it and expect to destroy the seal, or cut the nut off carefully, and try to cause minimal damage to the output shaft.  Not much room to work in there, and any forces that you're applying can go straight into the gearset if you're not careful.  Just be careful, as you don't want to get into trans damage.

I don't remember if the seal is replaceable without splitting the cases, but by looking at a picture of one, I'm thinking that it's doable.  In which case, get the area nice and clean before you start, and break out the propane.

I don't quite understand the "tap it with a little hammer" process.
Depends which red Loctite was used.
Propane isn't very hot and I doubt with a shaft and nut that size if enough heat would make it back to the seal to cook it.
That nut is very shallow for it's diameter and the heat would penetrate the Loctite quickly.
You can replace that seal in situ.
You would have the gearbox in neutral.
Start with the right tools for the job, who knows, it might just spin off, if not, other methods can then be considered in a logical order. Put the angle grinder on hold for the minute.

Noel

[FJmonkey]

I don't remember if the seal is replaceable without splitting the cases, but by looking at a picture of one, I'm thinking that it's doable.  In which case, get the area nice and clean before you start, and break out the propane.

That seal can be replaced without splitting the cases. The OEM seal has a lip on it making difficult to remove but once removed a new seal can be pushed in and all is good again. Having worked with Red and Blue thread locking compounds over the last 20 years I can tell you that it can be removed with enough heat to soften it without damaging the seal. I have done it on powder coated parts without damaging the finish. A torch is the common way to heat it but not the only way. A torch is quick and most fasteners where Red thread lock is used won't be adversely affected by heat from a torch. The tricky part here is the amount of mass that needs to be heated enough to soften the evil stuff. That is why I suggested a ride to get all the bits up to engine temp and use a heat gun from there. Since he has access to an impact gun, that might be all it takes.

Once the nut is off try using Lacquer Thinner and a small wire brush to remove the red residue off the threads, it works for me. Get most of it off, 100% is not necessary 80% will do.   

[FJmonkey]

This might be useful: http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid=52562

[Aeroaddict]

And it's ....... wait for it ........ OFF!!     Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I used the 'ride it around to warm it up' (how can you not take that option) and then hit it with 90psi on the impact gun. Came right off and YES there was red loctite. Now I can clean everything up and install some new sprockets and chain.

Sorry Gents that it took so long to respond but I just moved into a new place and had to wire up the air compressor.

[FJmonkey]

 

[ribbert]

And it's ....... wait for it ........ OFF!!    hit it with 90psi on the impact gun. Came right off .....

That is great news. It obviously wasn't that tight. The right tool for the job.
Still, the discussion did bring out lots of interesting information.

Start with the right tools for the job, who knows, it might just spin off,
Noel

[movenon]

And it's ....... wait for it ........ OFF!!     Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I used the 'ride it around to warm it up' (how can you not take that option) and then hit it with 90psi on the impact gun. Came right off and YES there was red loctite. Now I can clean everything up and install some new sprockets and chain.

Sorry Gents that it took so long to respond but I just moved into a new place and had to wire up the air compressor.

Good ! Now on to the new sprocket and chain.  All she needs is 61 ft lbs and no Loctite...
George

[FJ_Hooligan]

Here are a few of my observations on the job of the counter shaft nut.

First, it's job is not that demanding.  The CC sprocket is on a splined shaft so the nut does not need to be tightened so it prevents slippage of the sprocket.

The nut is there basically to keep the sprocket from falling off.  Therefore it needs to be tight enough so that it does not back off.  The lockwasher should prevent the nut from backing off.  There are no forces that are trying to loosen the nut.  In theory you should be able to simply hand tighten the nut, fold the tang of the lockwasher down and it should stay in place.

[TexasDave]

I would feel much more comfortable knowing that nut is torqued down very securely. There are a few thousands spacing allowed for that gear to slide over the splines. With acceration and decceration I don't want that gear working back and forth on that splined shaft.  Dave

[TexasDave]

Excuse my typing. I meant acceleration and deceleration.  Dave

[movenon]

As per factory YSM 61 ft lbs.   
George