Starter motor too weak

[jonaf]

Copied from the old forum:

Re: Starter motor too weak

The cam timing was OK when I assembled the engine some years ago.
The problem got worse when I bored the engine out from 1250 to 1314
and I think it has grown even worse over the years.
The field magnets in the starter may have lost some of their
magnetism, possibly. A starter without field coils has no self-
amplifying effect when it runs under heavy load.
Frank, is the XJR stronger than the original one?

br Jon

--- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, Denis Duchene <dduchene@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 85 with the 1188 12 to 1 pistons in it and have not had a
> problem yet.
>
> Denis
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:38 PM, Frank Moore wrote:
>
> > you said it had a big bore kit in it..... that cannot be done
without
> > removing the cams at least once.
> >
> >
> > i have a 1349cc motor with a brand new XJR starter on it and i
still
> > have to crack the throttles to get it started when its hot.
> >
> >
> > KOokaLoo!
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> > --- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, jfredheim2000 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks, but I can't realle see how the cam timing could change.
The
> >> cam sprockets are not adjustable and the tensioners are in good
> >> condition.
> >> Anybody who know which year the four brush starter was
introduced?
> >>
> >> --- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Moore" <cfmoore64@>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> have you checked your cam timing?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kookaloo!
> >>>
> >>> Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, jfredheim2000 <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> It is not as simple as just a matter of battery capacity. I
> > have
> >>>> tried two starter motors and the work the same way. Fitted to a
> >>>> original 1100 motor they spin easily however. Jumping with a
> > car
> >>>> battery makes no difference, in fact my bike batteries are able
> >> to
> >>>> supply more than 250 amps.
> >>>> I'll start looking for a four brush starter. I have foud
> > several
> >>>> items on ebay, but none here in Scandinavia.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, athoms@ wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes mate./ try jump starting from a car. If you still have
> > the
> >>> same
> >>>> problem - the starter motor is stuffed.
> >>>>> The windings get too hot and the motor does not have the same
> >>> power
> >>>> as when cold.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I changed my starter motor and problem fixed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> kg4tbo <akwusmc@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My stock '90 does the same thing ......... I crack the
> >> throttle
> >>>> while
> >>>>>> cranking and it magically starts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> aw
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In yamahafj@yahoogroups.com, jfredheim2000 <no_reply@>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The starter motor in my bored out FJ (Wiseco 1314 kit)
> > does
> >>> not
> >>>> have
> >>>>>>> the power to crank the engine when it is hot. I have
> > fitted
> >>> two
> >>>>>>> batteries so i have 24 Ah capacity and the starter pulls
> >> more
> >>>> than 250
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> amps but it just does not have the torque to crank the
> >> engine.
> >>>>>>> Anybody with the same experience?

[Mark Olson]

Jon,

somebody had posted previously on the yahoo site about what year yamaha went to the better starter I believe it was 89. when you check the yamaha site it shows same part # for all years fj.

things you can do are.
disassemble your starter and clean it.
install larger power cables.
install automotive start relay(like a ford solenoid)
install a new starter or have yours rebuilt
try cracking the throttle a bit as you start it.
switch to a synthetic oil
smoke a cigarette while you are stopped so it cools down.

check with the legends racing guys and see what they are using for the hi-perf motors.

ok some of that was silly but most was real.

[Marsh White]

Yeah, what Mark said! 

I was going to say to take it to a local shop and have it re-wound / re-built; but I see you are in Scandinavia...and I'm not sure if you have those shops in every town like we do here in the US.

I recently fixed a starter motor on an ATV.  Had no idea what I was doing, but I took it apart.  Made mental notes of how to put it back together....and cleaned the HELL out of everything....mainly with CARB cleaner.  Put it back together and it works like a champ!

[racerrad8]

I have new starters in stock. I don't have the price with me right now, can post it early next week when I get back to the shop. I have not had any luck having starters rebuilt locally. The rebuilders wanted as much as a new one, so that is why I stock new ones.

I have been using these for our Legends racers for the past 5 years and have not had one problem.

Randy - RPM

[jonaf]

The four brush permanent magnet version Mitsuba SM-13 is the one I am looking for. I think this is the one that was fitted to the last models of the FJ1200 and it may have better cranking torque than the earlier two brush field coil SM-229 starter.