RIP Kobe Bryant

[Pat Conlon]

I can't understand why a well qualified commercial pilot in a craft with no TAWS and when confronted with rising terrain and low ceiling, would not stop, contact ATC and declare an emergency IMC and pop up to go on instrument. (FAA fines?)
Maybe he was trying to do this, if he was, it sounds like ATC was not aware of his declaration and did not give him pop up clearance.
Hitting the mountain in a left turn decent at 2,000fpm (~185mph) in a functioning aircraft that has the ability to stop and hover is unthinkable.

[Millietant]

Overconfidence Pat, overconfidence !!!!! I never got enough experience to get there !!!

If I encountered fog, I'd do an instrument t guided 180 and comb away from trouble - but I don't know the airspace they were in.

[ZOA NOM]

I agree, overconfidence. He was "Kobe's" pilot, after all. Can you imagine the embarrassment of slowly landing in a parking lot nowhere near your destination, to find TMZ filming Kobe and his group sheepishly standing around looking at the pilot who just landed the thing safely? The horror.

[Pat Conlon]

He didn't have to land anywhere, he was instrument rated, he could fly that bird wearing a hood. (literally)

[Troyskie]

RIP. So sad.
The switch from VFR to IFR is not as straightforward as you might think.
It is possible the pilot accidentally entered cloud. Lost his situational awareness and possibly hit the hill without seeing until the last second.
The 2000fpm turning descent is sadly similar to a crash here some time ago.
The pilot was super experienced with IFR in PNG. He entered cloud by mistake, lost his SA and mast bumped within 20 seconds.
Although the AH is there, in the stress of the pilots work can make interpreting the instruments tricky and pilots can revert to seat of pants 'feel'. A 2000fpm turning descent can feel like straight and level.
Poor buggers.
Please remember, no pilot sets out to end this way.

[Pat Conlon]

Please remember, no pilot sets out to end this way.

Thanks Troy, of course this is true, and well to remember.

[ZOA NOM]

He didn't have to land anywhere, he was instrument rated, he could fly that bird wearing a hood. (literally)

Agreed, my post was sarcasm, of course. It really is a sad situation. I have flown (copilot's seat) a small plane into IFR conditions, and the sensation of losing your bearings is absolutely sobering, and the trust you must have in your instruments is critical. For the life of me, I can't figure out how an experienced IFR pilot would lose the picture.

[Troyskie]

It doesn't take much to send an AH spinning. It can take a few seconds for an AH to settle down and be useful.
Depending on what sort of instrumentation the pilot had they might have been behind the machine and reacting instead of controlling.
It all seems to have happened really quick.
2000fpm down is pretty darn fast, like quicker than an autorotation.
Anyone with fixed wing experience might have had a spiral dive demonstrated. This manoeuvre can demonstrate a cup of water on the dash staying in place and not spilling despite the aircraft being almost upside down. This is often used to remind pilots to trust their instruments, not their gut.

I recently turned around after entering conditions I didn't like. I have personal minimums that are a tad stricter than the rules. Both my passenger and myself were disappointed, but we returned safely.

Most airlines and charter companies have their own set of rules and train accordingly to avoid this sort of tragedy.

In Australia there is wonderful and unusual bit of aviation law common sense. No pilot has ever been busted after they've made a PAN or maday call. It is encouraged to make a pan or mayday if you are under stress. No helicopter that has made a precautionary landing on private, public even defence owned land has ever had to do more than explain their actions.

The tragedy of the C130 that crashed her last week kind of highlights that even experienced crews in demanding conditions sometimes don't make it out. RIP to those guys. They are heroes and helped stop the fire near my place

[FJ Flyer]

The complex airspace in SoCal definitely was a factor.  Lot for the investigators to look at. Hopefully, they'll find the answers.

[ribbert]

Agreed, my post was sarcasm, of course. It really is a sad situation. I have flown (copilot's seat) a small plane into IFR conditions, and the sensation of losing your bearings is absolutely sobering, and the trust you must have in your instruments is critical. For the life of me, I can't figure out how an experienced IFR pilot would lose the picture.

I agree, overconfidence. He was "Kobe's" pilot, after all. Can you imagine the embarrassment of slowly landing in a parking lot nowhere near your destination, to find TMZ filming Kobe and his group sheepishly standing around looking at the pilot who just landed the thing safely? The horror.

Pressure is often an overlooked culprit. Applied, implied or self generated. The fact they were airborne suggests the pilot may well have already indicated to his customer that he could get them to their destination, thereby putting himself under the pump to make it happen.

Charter customers are often by virtue of wealth, business standing or celebrity status accustomed to calling the shots and skilled at intimidating people. If they hire an aircraft, it's generally because they need to be in a place at a time and it's important to them (or they wouldn't hire an aircraft)
Telling them it isn't going to happen never goes down well, even more so if you've already indicated it will, more so again if you're already airborne, and really awkward if en route and have to turn back.
Many a pilot has been bullied into making or continuing a flight they'd rather not have.

Human Factors is a mandatory subject for an ATPL .
The question as to how such an experienced pilot can do whatever gets asked all too often, the correlation between experience and safety is not linear.
There are pilots, like in every other field, that start out as and remain for the duration of their career, poor pilots.

At the end of the day, the pilot flew his aircraft into terrain while trying to sneak through bad weather. It was his responsibility to manage the risk which includes dodgy radar tracking, patchy radio contact, complex air space (that's his job) and whatever else was not in his favour. The special clearance he was flying under suggests he was already pushing the envelope.

As Troy said, he applies personal minimums that are stricter than the rules, I like that.

It is interesting to note why the Police helicopters had no such problem under the same conditions!

Noel

[FJ Flyer]

I was waiting for this to come up via the press before saying anything.  Forbes has posted this:

The helicopter that crashed Sunday killing basketball star Kobe Bryant and eight others was owned by a charter company that only operated under visual flight rules, and its pilots were not permitted to fly solely based on their cockpit gauges if they encountered weather that limited visibility, a former pilot for the company told Forbes.

The pilot of the doomed flight, Ara Zobayan, was licensed to fly by cockpit instruments, but he likely had little real-world experience in doing so given the operating limitations of Island Express Helicopters, says Kurt Deetz, a former pilot for the company who flew Bryant for two years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2020/01/29/pilot-in-kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-by-instruments/#67ba93df26ea

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks Chris

[ZOA NOM]

Just tragic all the way around. Thanks for the detailed info, Chris and Troyskie

[fj1289]

That's a shame - self imposed limitations (company operating policies) and external pressure adding up to pushing the limits.   There were no troops in contact, no life, limb, or eye-sight at risk.