Ethanol fighting treatment revisited

[JoBrCo]

Has anyone used/compared Bell Performance's Ethanol Defense against Gold Eagle's Sta-bil 360 or Star bright's Star Tron, or Lucas's Safeguard Ethanol Fuel With Conditioner, for that matter?  Although I'm getting the impression that most swear by Sta-bil and Star Tron.  I've also found data that seems to indicate that they, along with Safeguard and Ethanol Defence do not have further alcohols that are supposed to combat the effects of alcohol. Ridiculous sounding, I know, but apparently true for some companies.

In the past I have actually used Yamaha's recommended method for long term storage (seasonal) but in my case it was USN deployment related.  Yamaha said to run engine dry of fuel; place 1-2 tablespoons of engine oil in each cylinder and crank it over a few seconds; place a half pint or so of engine oil in the tank and shake it like a giant maraca, then replace; disconnect battery; place on center stand and block engine so both wheels are off the ground; and you're done!

When I got back, I just added fuel in the tank; reconnected battery; removed the block; placed fuel cock on prime for a few minutes, then run; hit the starter, a few times; cleaned fowled plugs as necessary; and watched the blue smoke as it exited my exhaust pipes.  And she was fine, after a tank or two. Obviously no corrosion could build up through oil.  Of course I slacked off in latter years, some of you know how I finally treated her, 19 years ago. 

I was just wondering if that would help the issue, somewhat? I, unfortunately for my bike with ethanol fuel in it, live in an often humid part of the country, adding to the amount of H2O the alcohol pulls from the atmosphere.

Anyone got this ethanol crap down to a very successful science?

TIA!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[Steve_in_Florida]

Anyone got this ethanol crap down to a very successful science?

My method (which has worked well for me) is to never let the bike (or car) sit for too long. I just keep running fresh gas through it again, and again, and again...

Lately, I've been trying to exercise each vehicle during the week. FJ#1 on Monday. MG on Tuesday. VW Van on Wednesday. FJ#2 on Thursday. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Your method for long-term storage sounds pretty viable.

Steve

[movenon]

The last two years I have used Star Tron with no problems.  I usually carry a bottle in my tank bag and put in some every other tank full.  During the winter I increase the ratio for storage. I have had good luck with it.
George

[FJ_Hooligan]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

[FJscott]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

Sta-bil is a fuel stabilizer formulated to prevent phase separation of the fuel during extended storage periods. that has nothing to do with Ethanol.I use it when I go to sea for months at a time.

For Ethanol treatment I use a Yamaha product called Ring free. its really made for Yamaha outboard engines and fuel systems. I started using it in my boat after a couple fuel issues related directly to Ethanol fuel. it prevents the ethanol from attacking anything Rubber. it also
keeps deposits from forming in the piston ring lands hence the name "ring free" I started using it in the FJ after replacing all the fuel lines finding them hard and crunchy like a partially frozen garden hose.

Scott

[FJ_Hooligan]

My experience only. 

Several years ago I tried using StaBil in my bikes.  After having to rebuild the carbs every Spring I decided to try something else.  Marvel Mystery Oil was just as useless as StaBil for preventing clogged idle jets.

For the last 4 or 5 years I have been using Techron and Star Tron.  I can't remember the last time I pulled a set of carbs off the bike.

I always park the bike with a full tank.  I add about 5 ounces of the additive and run the motor to make sure it's distributed in the fuel and in the carbs.  So far so good.  This same routine with StaBil didn't work well at all (not even with the green ethanol specific Marine StaBil).

[JMR]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

Sta-bil is a fuel stabilizer formulated to prevent phase separation of the fuel during extended storage periods. that has nothing to do with Ethanol.I use it when I go to sea for months at a time.

For Ethanol treatment I use a Yamaha product called Ring free. its really made for Yamaha outboard engines and fuel systems. I started using it in my boat after a couple fuel issues related directly to Ethanol fuel. it prevents the ethanol from attacking anything Rubber. it also
keeps deposits from forming in the piston ring lands hence the name "ring free" I started using it in the FJ after replacing all the fuel lines finding them hard and crunchy like a partially frozen garden hose.

Scott

I have used StarTron for years but I have had very good luck with a Yamaha product. It does not say "Ring Free" but is made exclusively for ethanol side effects. I'll post the part# again (have done it several times) tomorrow. Please post this "ring free" part # to compare.

[JoBrCo]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

Sta-bil is a fuel stabilizer formulated to prevent phase separation of the fuel during extended storage periods. that has nothing to do with Ethanol.

It has everything to do with ethanol!
No ethanol, and there is no such thing as the phase separation of gasoline.  Ethanol is hygroscopic which causes phase separation of gasoline/ethanol blends, which simply means that the gasoline blend is separated into it's constituents, both gasoline and an ethanol/water blend.  Once there is phase separation the entire tank of fuel is wasted unless it can be re-combined (homogenized), which apparently can be done, though it's cost prohibitive for smaller quantities of phase separated Ethanol/Gasoline blends.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

My experience only.  

Several years ago I tried using StaBil in my bikes.  After having to rebuild the carbs every Spring I decided to try something else.  Marvel Mystery Oil was just as useless as StaBil for preventing clogged idle jets.

For the last 4 or 5 years I have been using Techron and Star Tron.  I can't remember the last time I pulled a set of carbs off the bike.

I always park the bike with a full tank.  I add about 5 ounces of the additive and run the motor to make sure it's distributed in the fuel and in the carbs.  So far so good.  This same routine with StaBil didn't work well at all (not even with the green ethanol specific Marine StaBil).

Apparently there are several Sta-bil products as outlined below:

STA-BIL Storage: Keeps gasoline fresh for up to 12 months, eliminating the need to drain your tank during storage seasons.

STA-BIL Protection: Prevents Ethanol fuel related damage in your gasoline vehicle or small engines. Prevents corrosion, helps remove water, and cleans fuel injectors and carburetors for improved year-round performance.

STA-BIL Marine:  Specially formulated for use in harsh marine environments, STA-BIL Marine offsets the effects of moisture in today's ethanol-blended fuels and protects marine engines during storage.

STA-BIL Diesel: Generators, tractors and diesel trucks require special additives to operate smoothly and problem-free. That's what STA-BIL Diesel is for: to keep diesel fuel fresh and injectors clean.

STA-BIL 360°:  This revolutionary new fuel additive releases a corrosion fighting vapor inside the fuel system, that coats ALL metal parts of the fuel system, where other additives can't reach --including ABOVE and BELOW the fuel line.  Available in both automotive and marine versions.

Which one did you use? Surely not the Diesel or Marine, I'm sure!


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

I'm surprised no one's tried Bell Performance's Ethanol Defense because they sure talk a good talk.

See what you think, check out the link!  Or not!


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[anson45]

Several years ago all the gas stations in this area went 10 % Ethanol. I immediately had a problem with my FJ. Several hundred dollars later I started to use Star Tron in the FJ and Sta-Bil (cheap red stuff from Lowes) in my other bikes, every fill up. I've had no problems. I have used gas that I stored with Sta-Bil for two years with no problem. But I do double dose for long term storage. I'd like to try something better, but I have had success for several years with these products.
Anson

[FJscott]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

Sta-bil is a fuel stabilizer formulated to prevent phase separation of the fuel during extended storage periods. that has nothing to do with Ethanol.

It has everything to do with ethanol!
No ethanol, and there is no such thing as the phase separation of gasoline.  Ethanol is hygroscopic which causes phase separation of gasoline/ethanol blends, which simply means that the gasoline blend is separated into it's constituents, both gasoline and an ethanol/water blend.  Once there is phase separation the entire tank of fuel is wasted unless it can be re-combined (homogenized), which apparently can be done, though it's cost prohibitive for smaller quantities of phase separated Ethanol/Gasoline blends.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

Phase separation is a loosely used term to describe the problems and affects of ethanol in gasoline. The real problem is as you mention the hydroscopic property of ethanol. its the water. as you pointed out earlier there are many different formulas, some preventative and some take corrective action. the preventative formula's attempt to block the water from being absorbed as well as add a lubricant to fight the etholol from attacking rubber components in the fuel system. the corrective action formulas help the the fuel absorb the water, pass it so it leaves the engine exhaust as water vapor.

There has been problems with fuel phase separation long before the introduction of ethanol. gasoline is a blend of different petroleum distillates. each component of the blend has a different vapor pressure. in a vented container, and over time the component with the lowest vapor pressure will evaporate first and at a higher rate than the other components in the blend. what remains is a condensed
version that more resembles varnish and gum. this was my point when I made the comment it had nothing to do with ethanol.

In the HVAC industry the move away from Ozone depleting refrigerants(CFC's) led to converting over to a blended HFC refrigerants.
they have a similar problem when they develop a small leak over time the component with the lower vapor pressure leaks out at a different rate and the ratio of the blend leaves the refrigerant useless. this is also called phase separation.

I use non Ethanol fuel in my boat. I use Sta-bil fuel stabilizer to prevent phase separation.

Scott

[JoBrCo]

I've found the StaBil doesn't do $hit for stabilizing ethanol fuel.

I've had apparent good luck with Techron and StarTron

Of course, the best solution is to burn the fuel off while riding and replace with fresh.

Sta-bil is a fuel stabilizer formulated to prevent phase separation of the fuel during extended storage periods. that has nothing to do with Ethanol.

It has everything to do with ethanol!
No ethanol, and there is no such thing as the phase separation of gasoline.  Ethanol is hygroscopic which causes phase separation of gasoline/ethanol blends, which simply means that the gasoline blend is separated into it's constituents, both gasoline and an ethanol/water blend.  Once there is phase separation the entire tank of fuel is wasted unless it can be re-combined (homogenized), which apparently can be done, though it's cost prohibitive for smaller quantities of phase separated Ethanol/Gasoline blends.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

Phase separation is a loosely used term to describe the problems and affects of ethanol in gasoline. The real problem is as you mention the hydroscopic property of ethanol. its the water. as you pointed out earlier there are many different formulas, some preventative and some take corrective action. the preventative formula's attempt to block the water from being absorbed as well as add a lubricant to fight the etholol from attacking rubber components in the fuel system. the corrective action formulas help the the fuel absorb the water, pass it so it leaves the engine exhaust as water vapor.

There has been problems with fuel phase separation long before the introduction of ethanol. gasoline is a blend of different petroleum distillates. each component of the blend has a different vapor pressure. in a vented container, and over time the component with the lowest vapor pressure will evaporate first and at a higher rate than the other components in the blend. what remains is a condensed
version that more resembles varnish and gum. this was my point when I made the comment it had nothing to do with ethanol.

In the HVAC industry the move away from Ozone depleting refrigerants(CFC's) led to converting over to a blended HFC refrigerants.
they have a similar problem when they develop a small leak over time the component with the lower vapor pressure leaks out at a different rate and the ratio of the blend leaves the refrigerant useless. this is also called phase separation.

I use non Ethanol fuel in my boat. I use Sta-bil fuel stabilizer to prevent phase separation.

Scott

That's not exactly the same thing?  In one scenario, some of the constituents leave the system quicker than the others, and in the other, they are separating within the system each becoming more concentrated in the process, and in the Ethanol blend's case, ethanol, in it's concentrated form, does a lot more targeted damage, as opposed to a lot less wide spread damage, when in solution, both constituents eventually being completely foreign to the system, in terms of function, while one, the ethanol, does major harm to the system; both the metal (that which contains the compound) and the rubber (that which helps contain the compound during work).

The speed with which these two scenarios create problems also differs, the Ethanol problem manifesting much more readily and catastrophically.

Lets face it, the Ethanol fuel solution, is a lot worse idea, than either the compounds of age old gasoline, or current refrigerants.

I think more people here are more concerned with the ethanol blend than either age old gasoline or current refrigerants.

I would add that when it's really all about some fat cat making more money, that peoples older vehicles die a quick and painful death, it's much more infuriating, especially when it's a classic, like the FJ.

By the way, no big deal really, I knew what you meant, but it's actually "hygroscopic."

Later, my friend!


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo