What's the lesson to learn here?

[Bminder]

So the other day my daughter's 2001 VW Beetle 1.8t overheated. Never done that before. She shut it down the moment the buzzer sounded when the light came on, good girl.
I saw no coolant leaking, the radiator fans were working, so I let it cool off, drove it home.  Doing a bunch of investigating I confirmed the waterpump was working, and discovered the hose off the thermostat was cold, so stuck thermostat.
Bought a new one, and dove in to removing the serpentine tensioner, alternator, and throttle body to get at the bugger.

Long story short, I was given the wrong T-stat at the parts store, there were lots of 1's and 4's in the part number and the parts man had accidently pulled the wrong one and I didn't notice.
But before I realized I had the wrong Tstat, I called this guy who has an independent shop in Cheyenne that works on VWs and Audi's that two of my friends swear by. I'd been in his shop too and thought he was a decent guy.
Anyhow, when i told him it had overheated and I narrowed it down to the T-stat he said, "Nope. It's the waterpump. If that motor overheats, it's the waterpump."
I told him I had checked the waterpump return line and it was flowing, and the hose coming off the Tstat was cold.
He said, "I'll bet you $100 it's the waterpump. I changed these all the time on these motors. It's the waterpump." He was very adamant and went on and on about the fact that it's a bad waterpump. I thought, "Crap, a $10 job just turned into a $300 job and hours and hours more time.

So I took the old Tstat and my new one and threw them in a saucepan on the stove.
Sure enough, the old Tstat wouldn't open, the new one opened right up.
I went in and told the mechanic.
He looked at me and said, "You've got a lot more patience than I do.  I still say it's the waterpump but there's no harm putting a new Tstat in."

I put the new Tstat in and guess what? No more overheating.
It was the Tstat.

So what's the lesson in this for you, me, and the mechanic?

Maybe he's just ripping people off by doing a $800-900 job when a simple Tstat change is sometimes the problem.
But maybe also, he's got it so set in his mind that when a VW/Audi 1.8t motor overheats that it's the waterpump, that he no longer even checks for stuck Tstats and just replaces waterpumps (which also involves changing the Tstat too, so it's fixing the problem anyways.)

I guess the lesson for me is that I shouldn't let myself get so close-minded in life that I am not open to other possibilities besides my pre-conceived one.

[Country Joe]

Something that has always been stressed to me in regards to troubleshooting mechanical problems is to go from simple to complex. Eliminate the simplest possibility first before moving on.  That has usually served me pretty well, and I usually wind up kicking myself when I ignore that strategy. I agree with you, he is trying to change a $40.00 job into an $800.00 job. Or you can look at changing the water pump as preventative maintenance, especiall if the car has quite a few miles.

   Joe

[Steve_in_Florida]

Occam's razor!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor

[NJona86FJ]

Yes to Occam's razor. Just read the book " lies deep friers and statistics". Good book. And yes I agree with your post, people do get stuck in a mental type rut, I try to remember what I have been told, take advice but start at the begging and eliminate eliminate eliminate till its over.
Well done with the v dub. Our Subaru was worked on and overheated really bad. Went to a different mech, and discovered the heads that were replaced? Weren't lapped properly , harmonic balance welded up, and a few other bits, so all fixed took first mech to fair trading, all good, got car back from 2nd mech, and it was the 19 mm spanner in the engine bay that made me think I should check. Inlet hose loose, throttle cables units just cable tied in, and the power steering weeps at master cylinder.
The joys
Cheers folks
Neil

[movenon]

  "Trust no one", "never take anything for granted", "most problems are simple", "don't panic", "if it cost more than 1000.00 dollars then read a book and ask questions", "about half of everything can be installed backwards"  

Glad you got it fixed and saved a few bucks. Sometimes it's a lot easier to save money than earn it. I had a financial mentor long ago that drilled into me that the easiest money you will ever make is buying low. You trade your life (your time on earth) for money to buy stuff. How much of your life do you want to give up for what you buy is the question.

I have an old 94 Saturn down in Yuma for a run about POS, the water pump did fail. Quoted 385.00 to replace it. I bought an new AC Delco water pump for 29.00, with a screw driver, 10mm and 14mm (9/16) wrench, some anti freeze and 1 hour of time good as new. After expenses I guess I made 345.00 an hour.

George

[airheadPete]

After working as a mechanic, the guy probably wasn't trying to screw you, he's just fallen into the rut of " they all do that", and his fix would have solved the problem.
The problem is, he doesn't have either the time or the patience for trouble-shooting, which is what makes a great mechanic: that critical, questioning eye. Time is money and in-depth trouble-shooting doesn't pay the bills on a $35- thermostat.
That said, if I ever hear anyone stating something as indisputable fact, all kinds of red flags go up. Where we worked, everything was open to question. "It's probably this, but..."
A 95% success rate based on past experience wasn't good enough.
I'd still use the guy, but make a probable cause determination yourself first. It gets unnerving when you have to trust him because the problem is above your skill level.

[FJmonkey]

I had rebuilt the carb on my 66 Olds 88 (my first car) because it was not running well. After the rebuild it still ran like crap. I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic to see if he find the problem. He futzed about for about 5 min checking a few things, asked me a few questions, futzed some more then announced what the problem was. Their was check ball (for the fuel pump I think) that was the wrong size. He pulled out a tin of assorted bits and pulled out a tiny steel ball, measured with mics, checked a few more, then handed one to me. He did not charge me and after swapping the check ball out it ran properly again. The value of a mechanic like that is priceless. Trouble shoots like a pro and does not try to sell you work when he knew I could do the job. I used him every time I needed help.

[bcguide]

the thing is shop rate is 125 an hr how much trouble shooting can you afford to pay for? 

[Bminder]

the thing is shop rate is 125 an hr how much trouble shooting can you afford to pay for? 

That's true, but I was able to trouble shoot a stuck thermostat by the very old method of feeling the hose coming off it compared to the other hoses, and I was able to confirm that the waterpump was pumping, and the radiator fans were fanning.  It took me 10 minutes or less. And I'm not a professional mechanic.

My point is that this mechanic has a rut in his brain that if it overheats it's automatically the waterpump. He won't even consider other options.
And in this case he was wrong.
There's a life lesson there for all of us.

[bcguide]

I hear you their is no substitute for good trouble shooting but realy most mechanics have become parts changers. Another thing if he changes the thermastat and
the pump goes next month lots of people will come back unhappy, sometimes its easier to just change everything that can go wrong
Scott

[Bminder]

I hear you their is no substitute for good trouble shooting but realy most mechanics have become parts changers. Another thing if he changes the thermastat and
the pump goes next month lots of people will come back unhappy, sometimes its easier to just change everything that can go wrong
Scott

I'm sure that's part of his thought process.
I almost just took the car to him because I was really busy but I'm glad I didn't.