Well I thought I would share the latest chapter to the upgrades to my newly acquired 85 FJ100. What was to be a straightforward installation of a 90' FZR1000 wheel turned into something else entirely due to the hazards of buying off of EBay. You never really know what you are going to get and in this case it turned out to be an 02 R1 wheel instead of the promised FZR unit.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_28_20_0.jpeg)
The first clue was when I checked the bearing diameter and found it was a whopping 22mm instead of the expected 17mm. I had already accepted the fact that I was going to have to get some bushings to bring the FJ's axle diameter up to the 17mm ID of the FZR so I figured I could do the same to the R1's 22mm ID. The second clue was the 320mm brakes instead of the 303mm of the FZR. This created a problem with using the brackets sold on EBay in the UK that adapt the R1 brake calipers to the FJ's fork tubes, but I figured I could fabricate a set from sheet steel. Since I had already cleaned and painted the wheel I figured I had too much effort into it to just give up so forging ahead, I had to first find out even what I had. That took several hours of research online but was finally solved by some kind folks on an R1 forum.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_42_47_0.jpeg)
After that the big question was going to be if I could find bushings with a 22mm OD and 15mm ID. Fastenall to the rescue, they sell what are called drill bushings which are used to keep drill bits perpendicular while drilling and they just happened to have them in the required dimensions. Here are all of the parts laid out prior to assembly.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_42_49_1.jpeg)
Ass you can see in the pictures, the bushings have a shoulder on them. This is desirable as it transmits the clamping forces to the inner race of the bearing just like the stock setup. the problem is because of these the whole wheel assembly will be too wide on each side by the same thickness of these shoulders. This amount must be removed from either side. On the left side is the speedometer. The gear was removed from inside and the material was removed. No need for a machine shop, I don't have access to one anymore, but you would be amazed at what you can do with a rotary file and some good hand files.
Here is a picture of the housing before the modification and after. You can see the groove where the snap ring fits that holds the gear on the shaft. When the required material is removed there won't be a groove left for the snap ring but after looking at how it all went together on the axle I realized it was impossible for the gear to come off of the shaft because it is trapped against the wheel, so no big deal there.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_43_00_5.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_43_03_6.jpeg)
On the right side are spacers that have to be cut down by the same amount as I took off of the speedometer housing. This presented a problem because the FJ's spacer OD would not be big enough to contact the R1's oil seal. Fate intervened when I was trial fitting the two spacers and realized that they fit perfectly together! This formed a spacer with a 15mm ID and an OD that was proper for the R1 oil seal! Perfect, now all I had to do was cut it down to the proper size and I was all set.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_43_05_7.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_43_08_8.jpeg)
So all that was left was to assemble the pieces and what do you know it all worked out!
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_48_25_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_43_11_9.jpeg)
Brackets had to be fabricated from 1/8" sheet steel that would mate the R1 calipers to the fork tubes. Again, rotary files, hand files, a vise, a hammer and much elbow grease. These can be seen in the finished product.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_48_28_1.jpeg)
I'm running an 03' FJR1300 master cylinder and needless to say with the 320mm rotors the brakes are excellent!
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/3525_11_08_13_5_48_33_3.jpeg)
Stay tuned, the 88' GSXR rear wheel is next.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/thumb_3525_11_08_13_5_48_35_4.jpeg)
Sorry about the small pictures. I need to figure out how to make those bigger. Oh well, please feel free to look them up in my gallery if you want.
No worries laddie, I fixed it for you....Thank You for the great write up! Pat
Brilliant right up mate, , I had the same issues when I bought my fzr/ fz1 front wheel, but only needed 15/22mm bushings made, and it bolted up
Quote from: Heliflyer 88 on August 11, 2013, 07:43:41 PMThe second clue was the 320mm brakes instead of the 303mm of the FZR.
The '90 FZR1000 has 320mm rotors, not 303mm. Just for anyone thinking of doing the '90 FZR swap. :i_am_so_happy: Pete.
Thanks for the info in the 90 FZR having 320mm rotors, I thought they were 300mm. Also my bearing ID was 22mm not the stated 20mm. Typo, sorry.
Wow, that is unreal, looks great. Shows that even some jobs that look impossible can be made to work with some lateral thinking. (Something I can't really do, :mocking:)
WELL DONE!
Boy, that AD unit uglies up an otherwise beauty of a mod. I think I'd buy an eBay block-off plate just the remove that visual pig.
Are you sure the 1/8th plate is thick enough to withstand those braking forces? Seems a bit thin to me, but then again, what do I know?
Aside from these two concerns, it sure IS a great looking mod. I was especially impressed with your continued innovation throughout.
Dan
Good job ! Excellent foundation for others to follow as the older wheels are getting harder to find . :good2: :good2: :good2:
George
Quote from: Dan Filetti on August 20, 2013, 08:30:15 PM
Are you sure the 1/8th plate is thick enough to withstand those braking forces? Seems a bit thin to me, but then again, what do I know?
I'm a bit concerned also. Seems a bit on the light side to me. There's a lot of force at work during braking and light weight steel plate is not going to last long before fatigue causes it to fail. I'm not an engineer but I've been a qualified welder for over 35 years and have seen many failures of undersized materials after fatigue caused by repetitive flexing. Do with this advice as you will, but with crucial things like brakes, I wouldn't be taking any chances.
Regards, Pete.
Quote from: oldktmdude on August 21, 2013, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on August 20, 2013, 08:30:15 PM
Are you sure the 1/8th plate is thick enough to withstand those braking forces? Seems a bit thin to me, but then again, what do I know?
I'm a bit concerned also. Seems a bit on the light side to me. There's a lot of force at uwork during braking and light weight steel plate is not going to last long before fatigue causes it to fail. I'm not an engineer but I've been a qualified welder for over 35 years and have seen many failures of undersized materials after fatigue caused by repetitive flexing. Do with this advice as you will, but with crucial things like brakes, I wouldn't be taking any chances.
Regards, Pete.
How thick are the rotor carriers? I'm guessing about the same thickness. Also helps that all the force going thru the bracket is compression (unlike the carriers). I'd be more concered about the mounting bolts being loaded in single shear ... but that's the way it comes from the factory! I'd be perfectly comfortable pushing the limits with those plates.
Chris W.
I thought about the strength question too and was ready to make up another plate that would sandwich the fork attach point and double up on the caliper end forming a sort of A frame cross section, but after I installed them with the single plate I found that they were far more rigid than I thought they would be. I rode the bike up and down the street and observed the calipers under hard braking and couldn't see any movement. Also they are essentially under a compression load and the rotor itself prevents any bending of the plate. Whether this will result in uneven pad or rotor wear remains to be answered and I will be looking for that in the future. So far I have ridden about 1000 miles with them under some pretty severe braking conditions and they show no signs of cracking, bending or misalignment. By the way, I do have a background in aviation maintenance and engineering so I didn't go into the project totally blind. I'll keep you all posted but so far they seem to be holding up just fine.
Heliflyer - great job working thru all the challenges and coming up with a clean upgrade for the 16" front end.
But, you didn't get an R1 rim either...the R1 (including the "pre-R1" YZF1000 Thunder Ace) uses a large diameter hub and brake rotors to match.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/171_23_08_13_9_34_24.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/171_23_08_13_9_28_06.jpeg)
The bearing size is correct for an R1, so not sure what you have. What may be the deal, is someone adapted an FZR1000 rim to a ThunderAce to replace a damaged rim. The ThunderAce was only sold in the US for a year as a stop-gap while waiting for the first R1 and the rims are very hard to find. The ThunderAce rim is the only one I found that uses R1 style brake rotors and has a speedometer gear drive. I've used them for two early R1 fork swaps to retain the speedo drive for the stock FJ speedo.
What size bearings did the rim have in it? What is the OD?
Quote from: fj1289 on August 23, 2013, 10:51:12 PM
Heliflyer - great job working thru all the challenges and coming up with a clean upgrade for the 16" front end
That should have read 17" front end!!! :dash2:
Just a quick clarification for others that are following your progress, which is quite "Awesome" I must say, you can not do a straight forward front tire switch with the 92 fzr1000 rim. As a matter of fact, it is probably the same as the r1 rim. To do the straight forward, such that it is, switch on front rims you will need an 1987 or 1988 fzr1000 front rim. So, you were domed from the beginning of the swap.
Great description of change over, and very helpful, considering there are more of the fzr1000 89 and up front rims available. And there may be a change again from 91 up because of the USD forks from that year forward. That is why I say your rim could fit both the 92 FZR and the R1. The R1 is just the progression of the FZR anyways.
Looks sharp.
Later.......
Will be added to fjowners.wikidot.com/front-rim, but still confused about what rim we have here? Can someone give a cliff notes version with corrections taken into account? I just read the whole thing, and now I'm not sure what we've got.