Sooo... A friend over on FB wrote, as her status "Like if you Love Harley's" I responded: "...If by 'love Harley's' you really mean 'love the image of Harleys' -which they sell in spades, then you will likely get more likes. Just sayin."
I knew this would not go unchallenged, and it was not...
An idiot friend of hers asked if 'there was any other kind of motorcycle' and then proceeded to sing the accolades of his Harley...
So I did a bit of digging and, among other zingers, I responded thusly:
Harley made $224M the first quarter of 2013. $184M of it was from accessories sales. That's 82% of their revenue!! What Harley sells, is image -this is certainly evidence of this to me. It they could find a way to simply stop selling the bikes and just sell the cheap t-shirts, and chrome tooth-brushes, they'd do it. Harley had a chance to be about the bikes again with Eric Buell, but they failed miserably, mostly because Eric trusted Harley and their shark attorneys too much...
I was surprised at that 82%, it really is shocking... and telling.
In any case I thought I'd pass that along... 82%!
en garde!
Dan
You want to really do their heads in?
Tell them that the French & the Japanese own controlling interests in H.D.
ALLIANCEBERNSTEIN L.P. & Mitsubishi.
Look it up on NASDAQ. (http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/hog/institutional-holdings?page=2)
It would be interesting to see the size of their R&D budget over the last 5 years. I suspect not much compared to say, Polaris, BMW or the big 4.
82% sales revenue from accessories....amazing, and sad.
Why should they spend a bunch of money, they sell em like hotcakes.. On any given ride I'd guess 7/10 bikes I pass are Harleys. They're everywhere.
I don't get it either, but man they have it locked up.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 07, 2013, 08:49:43 PM
It would be interesting to see the size of their R&D budget over the last 5 years. I suspect not much compared to say, Polaris, BMW or the big 4.
82% sales revenue from accessories....amazing, and sad.
How much R&D does it take to develop new colors or chrome doodads? :unknown:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 07, 2013, 08:49:43 PM
It would be interesting to see the size of their R&D budget over the last 5 years.
Except any R&D budget would certainly include R&D of those accessories -someone has to design and build those new chrome baubles, and accordingly, likely the lion-share of a general R&D budget. The interesting bit would be motorcycle-only R&D budget figures.
Dan
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xQpR7AktEz8/TIedLhsVmCI/AAAAAAAAAvE/WHpmavxtco8/s400/harley%2520made%2520in%2520japan%2520label2.jpg)
(http://www.chevytrucks.org/bike/harley%20made%20in%20japan%20label.jpg)
(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2011/11/17/8d/8d/clancy_photo2.jpg)
Quote from: Klavdy on August 07, 2013, 09:09:16 PM
(http://www.chevytrucks.org/bike/harley%20made%20in%20japan%20label.jpg)
I wonder if there is a mod that the owners could do to bypass the "SLOW" jet.........................Then maybe their bikes would actually do more than just make a bunch of noise? :rofl2:
(http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/1896887/81432410.jpg)
Quote from: Firehawk068 on August 07, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
I wonder if there is a mod that the owners could do to bypass the "SLOW" jet.........................Then maybe their bikes would actually do more than just make a bunch of noise? :rofl2:
The trouble with that remedy is that then you'd actually have to make them get around corners. :wacko3:
The mildly scary part is... Why do you guys have soooo much H-D stuff available to photograph?
(And why do those bastards never wave??? (I've given up on them.))
Quote from: airheadPete on August 08, 2013, 01:05:09 AM
(And why do those bastards never wave??? (I've given up on them.))
This irritates me also. As a V-Max owner, sometimes when I wave at a Harley rider, he hesitantly waves. One pulled back his wave quickly when he realized it was a Jap bike. Come on, guys. Really?
Quote from: airheadPete on August 08, 2013, 01:05:09 AM
(And why do those bastards never wave???
Fear of losing control if they take one hand off the bars.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on August 07, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
I wonder if there is a mod that the owners could do to bypass the "SLOW" jet.........................
Unlikely, that IS the main jet.
I get a lot of hand waves from the Harley wankers in my area, for whatever that is worth.
Leon
Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2013, 01:18:49 AM
Quote from: airheadPete on August 08, 2013, 01:05:09 AM
(And why do those bastards never wave???
Fear of losing control if they take one hand off the bars.
LOL!!!
Not far from the truth. Just last week I got a hoot out of seeing one rider in a troop of oncoming HD's waggle the handlebars while bringing their hand back in from a mutual wave with me.
I'm going to try that again. It's fun to see.
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 08, 2013, 07:05:30 AM
I get a lot of hand waves from the Harley wankers in my area, for whatever that is worth.
Leon
Most likely just picking the bugs from their eyes and teeth.
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 08, 2013, 07:05:30 AM
I get a lot of hand waves from the Harley wankers in my area, for whatever that is worth.
Leon
They are blinded by the shine from all the polished bits on your bike and think it must be another HD
Quote from: Arnie on August 08, 2013, 10:29:27 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 08, 2013, 07:05:30 AM
I get a lot of hand waves from the Harley wankers in my area, for whatever that is worth.
Leon
They are blinded by the shine from all the polished bits on your bike and think it must be another HD
:biggrin: :popcorn:
Quote from: Arnie on August 08, 2013, 10:29:27 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 08, 2013, 07:05:30 AM
I get a lot of hand waves from the Harley wankers in my area, for whatever that is worth.
Leon
They are blinded by the shine from all the polished bits on your bike and think it must be another HD
I could take that a couple of different ways, but it's still funny!
Cheers!
But in my own defense, I don't have any "chrome" on my FJ.
Far be it, that a HD rider actually take the time to polish raw aluminum to a mirror shine! :wacko3: :flag_of_truce:
Leon
The new modern HD dealership must meet corporate guidelines for the amount of floor space dedicated to clothing and to accessories. One of the people in the parts department is the HD trained "Chrome Consultant". So all of the sheep, I mean customers, can spend their money on clothing from China and southeastern Asian countries and parts from Japan and China. OCC on a much larger scale.
I am sure that everyone is heading to Milwaukee for Labor Day Weekend and the Harley 110th anniversary celebration. If you miss this one you can plan for 2018 and the 115th. Seriously, every 5 years there are anniversary models (at a premium over the normal HD price) and a big celebration in Milwaukee. So a month after the parades to Sturgis (I mean the groups of riders heading to Sturgis) Wisconsin gets their share of rolling road blocks.
Why is it that whenever Harleys tag along with our group of bikes they always want to drag and race against us?. Considering they can't go around a Mc Donalds carpark without scrapping their exhausts its always a good laugh. One of the riders we ride with actually hated his Harley because of arm pump from vibration, he learnt to hold his hog in forth rather than fifth because its smoother at around 100 to 120kph (no wonder he wants to ride at 140kph) :dash1:. But the good part about these guys is that they admit they bought for the image (they work for the mining industry - good money).
A guy at our work has an 883 piglet, and whenever he buys bling it has to be Harley original i.e tyres (tires for the yanks), oil filters etc, they cost twice as much but he won't buy anything else.
Also now that the mining industry is suffering I have noticed a lot more Harleys for sale (still hold their price???)
What about the ones who buy a Japanese Harley and think no one will notice the difference?
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20%20A/Yamaha%20XV%201100%20Virago%2088.jpg)
Then they often add a cherry to the cake of meh by wearing an idiotic vest covered in pins, badges and patches in some pathetic attempt to look like an outlaw 1%er.
(http://www.bikerbobsmotorcycleaccessories.com/images/_products/bikerdropship/GFVBIK2320(1).jpg)
Mind you, we have a good mate, Paul, he really loves to ride his Harley, goes on long adventures with another of our good mates, eh Padre?
Harleys are what they are,gets tedious to be constantly told they are the bestest bikes evah by the cultists though.
Here are some rambling thoughts from me...
Years ago I thought Harley was *finally* coming around to current thinking with the introduction of their Vrod.
Yea, it took a coboration with Porsche to make it happen but I thought....finally, some fresh ideas from Harley.
Instead, they went back into design of the twin cam engines....disappointing.
Polaris has eclipsed Harley with their clean sheet design of the Victory Vtwins and now with Polaris owning the Indian name, the design of the new Indian Vtwin engine is impressive. A beautiful motor indeed.
There were so many avenues Harley could have expanded into...yea they screwed the pooch with Eric Buell. Eric gave them many years to come up with a proper engine (instead of the Sportster) before moving his sport bikes over to the Rotax engines. No wonder Harley freaked out...can you even imagine those Harley certified buffoons in the service dept. working on a Rotax engine? Shudder the thought.
The new high end offerings by Motus look interesting. That design could have been from Harley.
A fuel injected, water cooled baby block V4 with push rods and hydraulic lifters (never needing adjustment) would have been right up their alley. An American made $32,000 sport touring bike would have not seemed out of place in a Harley showroom.
I'll bet a jelly donut that if the Motus bikes prove successful, Harley will buy them out within 2 years.
Maybe we can go halves in a Motus in a year or two.
Back to H.D's, they are not my idea of a thrilling ride but , for example, Pauls bike went well on your ride this year, he had fun, yeah?
Pauls a good rider,but what does he prefer to ride on your trips?
His H.D or one of your FJ's?
Harleys are what they are,but it seems they are mostly used by people who cant ride very well and have no real intention of putting in the commitment to improving their skills.
Paul is a FJ convert. No question about it. He struggled with his Harley on our last outing.
Hands down, he would rather ride the FJ than his Harley.
That, coming from a 40 year Harley enthusiast, should tell you something about the magic of the FJ.
I'd like to second the kind thoughts about our good friend Paul, he is the acceptation to the rule, when profiling your typical HD owner.
Leon
Quote from: Klavdy on August 08, 2013, 07:12:08 PM
Harleys are what they are,but it seems they are mostly used by people who cant ride very well and have no real intention of putting in the commitment to improving their skills.
This is THE best description I have ever read!
I not only agree with this, I have had the misfortune of getting stuck behind a particular HD rider on a charity ride.
He and his wide-load ol' lady could NOT hold a line going around a curve to save their asses, and were such a menace on two wheels, I pulled out of the ridicules rolling road block and let the road clear out.
I have since given up on ANY motorcycling planned events in my area because I know it is all the same, no matter what, and have instead turned my interest in to attending our rallies! Thank God for that!
Leon
I am not the best rider, in fact I am a rather poor rider as sport bikes go but I to have been on large club rides and will not go on any more of them for the same reason.
IMO they are unsafe, to many bikes all bunched up poking along drifting in and out. And then when you get tired of the wallowing around and speed up through them, you are branded the reckless one.... :wacko3: Just give me freedom and clear air......
Its not that I want to go fast, I just don't want to tailgate a bunch of bikes or a cars for that matter. I really enjoy small groups of riders that don't have to ride side by side or staggered for hundreds of miles. And I know not all Harley's are slow. I was passed by one going up Donner, and I wasn't going slow......
He was probably late to arrive at the next HD parts counter. :lol: :rofl2:
George
The FJ rallies, yes, they're fun eh?
The group rides are fun too.
No one wants you to ride fast, no one wants you to ride slow, there's no bullshit about passing the "Ride Captain", no rank badges or rigid rules.
You ride your own ride, after all, even in a group we all ride alone.
When we do go as a group it's pretty much "we are riding from here to here"
"We'll meet up at such and such, ride at your own pace, no one will get left behind."
It then splits into sub groups.
Want to ride slow,take in the sights, stop, take photos, have lunch a lot??
That's cool ,there's a group that'll do just that with you.
Want to ride fast,overtake on double lines and generally ignore the speed limits?
There's a group to hang with too.
And why not, it's your ride, no ones got your permission to tell you what to do.
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
The FJ rallies, yes, they're fun eh?
The group rides are fun too.
No one wants you to ride fast, no one wants you to ride slow, there's no bullshit about passing the "Ride Captain", no rank badges or rigid rules.
You ride your own ride, after all, even in a group we all ride alone.
When we do go as a group it's pretty much "we are riding from here to here"
"We'll meet up at such and such, ride at your own pace, no one will get left behind."
It then splits into sub groups.
Want to ride slow,take in the sights, stop, take photos, have lunch a lot??
That's cool ,there's a group that'll do just that with you.
Want to ride fast,overtake on double lines and generally ignore the speed limits?
There's a group to hang with too.
And why not, it's your ride, no ones got your permission to tell you what to do.
Looking forward to a few rallies next year ! I will put a plug in for those that are reading this that have never been to a rally. Try to attend one, or just drop in for a friendly "hi". If you can't ride your bike then drive to one. Heck even if you have a HD stop in :lol: thinking about you Paul :biggrin:.
George
Quote from: Klavdy on August 08, 2013, 07:12:08 PM
Harleys are what they are,but it seems they are mostly used by people who cant ride very well and have no real intention of putting in the commitment to improving their skills.
Why would you say that?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8405/8624468882_eea18e12b9_o.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
The FJ rallies, yes, they're fun eh?
The group rides are fun too.
No one wants you to ride fast, no one wants you to ride slow, there's no bullshit about passing the "Ride Captain", no rank badges or rigid rules.
You ride your own ride, after all, even in a group we all ride alone.
When we do go as a group it's pretty much "we are riding from here to here"
"We'll meet up at such and such, ride at your own pace, no one will get left behind."
It then splits into sub groups.
Want to ride slow,take in the sights, stop, take photos, have lunch a lot??
That's cool ,there's a group that'll do just that with you.
Want to ride fast,overtake on double lines and generally ignore the speed limits?
There's a group to hang with too.
And why not, it's your ride, no ones got your permission to tell you what to do.
Nicely put Klavdy!
How did you ever get the reputation for: "The single most offensive individual I have experienced on the web." ?????
Cap'n Ron. . .
Yo.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/DragonworksCSA/Posting%202/HarleyCrash1.jpg)
Ho.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/DragonworksCSA/Posting%202/HarleyCrash2.jpg)
Ho.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/DragonworksCSA/Posting%202/HarleyCrash3.jpg)
And a bottle of rum,,,
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/arturito49ers/kill3.jpg)
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 04:13:52 AM
Ho.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/DragonworksCSA/Posting%202/HarleyCrash3.jpg)
Glad to see he's wearing all the best safety gear available, NOT! Bet he lost an acre or two of bark. :wacko3:
Wear or don't wear whatever you want, it's up to you.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/5974912159_c2468b1292_z.jpg)
Wear a helmet, don't wear one, some places there's no compulsion to wear one.
Having said that,even though I'll occasionally ride in shorts and a t-shirt, I prefer to wear good quality, well fitted gear and a comfortable, noise reducing full face helmet with dedicated motorcycle gloves and boots.
To me, it makes riding easier, less distractions from flapping fabric like with jeans etc.
We're all pretty much guilty of buying into stereotypes,as an example,there's millions of people who's idea of a "biker" is some fat git on a Harley.
(http://jeffreyhughes.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/deals_gap_harley_rider.jpg)
They literally cannot understand why non Harley riders just don't get "It"and dress up in a pirate costume.
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 04:13:52 AM
Ho.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/DragonworksCSA/Posting%202/HarleyCrash3.jpg)
I have new respect, even Stoner can't hang off that far through a corner.
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 05:09:22 AM
Wear or don't wear whatever you want, it's up to you.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/5974912159_c2468b1292_z.jpg)
Wear a helmet, don't wear one, some places there's no compulsion to wear one.
Having said that,even though I'll occasionally ride in shorts and a t-shirt, I prefer to wear good quality, well fitted gear and a comfortable, noise reducing full face helmet with dedicated motorcycle gloves and boots.
What you choose to wear should always be your choice...and that day when my head hits the pavement, I will be wearing something very good to protect my noggin. That being said:
Riding along the Mohawk River in New York last year, I passed a guy on a Harley wearing a pair of OP shorts from the 70's. That's ALL. No helmet, no gloves, no shirt, no eyewear, and bare feet. WTF? The things you see when you don't have your camera.
Cap'n Ron. . .
OK! I'll Bite, The only reason I can come up with, with the Harley bashing, is?, You cant handle bikes this size at high speeds, Plus on the investment side of this, a Harley is a better chose, Holds there value better than most, It's also a different life style, For me, Riding 80-90 MPH, swerving in and out around other vehicles is just stupid, When I was younger, I thought going fast was cool, But then I grew up and became an adult, I've heard others on this forum say, "Parts are always fallen off Harley's", I have had many and have never had any part fall off,
Harley Bashing?
No, not the bikes, some of the riders that define themselves through having one, do you understand the difference?
If you like your Harley, that's great,ride it,enjoy it and why give a shit what people on a site dedicated to Japanese sports touring bikes think about it or the faithful?
Bite, eh?
Let's de-construct your post a little, eh?
Your premise seems to be based on more than one thing, not "The only reason I can come up with"
For convenience, let's overlook that and look at your "reasons"
Can't handle bikes this size at high speed?
An FJ weighs around 590 pounds,has around a 59" wheelbase, a Dyna Wide Glide, around 680 pounds,about 68" wheelbase, both biggish bikes.
High Speed.
You really suggesting that 80 mph is "High Speed"?
You honestly believe that?
I guess for something that is loud,slow,outdated, overpriced and ridden poorly it probably is, but not for a competent rider on an FJ.
So, no, that first point of yours looks to be incorrect.
n
Investment?
Seriously?
What, you going to get more for a H.D after a few years than what you paid for it?
Because that's what an "Investment (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp)" is.
A different lifestyle, eh?
Guess that's what Jim Jones followers were looking for down at Jonestown, Guyana too,eh? A different lifestyle.
Drink the Kool-Aid, wear the T-Shirt, pretty much the same thing.
For you,riding 80-90 mph ,swerving etc is just stupid.
Yes, for you, it most probably is.
When you were young, you thought going 80 mph was cool.
Then, when you grew up you heard others on this forum saying parts fall off Harleys.
You say you've had many and no parts have fallen off.
Your anecdotal evidence relates to your particular machines, not the ones others have observed.
Your observations don't prove anything other than what has happened to your bikes.
You've been a member here since the delightfully apt date of April 01, 2013,so effectively you are saying that's when you grew up.
(http://culleynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hardly_texting.jpg)
To Pat's point, what happens when Harley tries to update it's engineering (by stealing an engine platform Eric Buell had contracted Porsche to build)? They produce the V-Rod/ Street-Rod/ Night-Rod bikes with all of their splendid fuel injection, liquid cooling, overhead cam, desirable HP to displacement #'s (with mild tuning), and the Luddites within the Harley community universally pan it! They turn their noses up to it as if it's too much like "Jap Crap". Amazing. I rented a Street-Rod and road it for ~3,000 miles in 6 days. While it suffered from some of the same backwards engineering that other Harley's do, it was actually a pretty decent bike to ride. Yet this is the Harley, of all of them, it seems, that's 'not worthy'.
Here's the crazy thing. In my mind, Harley owes it's very existence to the Japanese. Harley's don't really change, 'tried and true' are the words they use. (Side note, I have a Beta-Max that is also tried and true technology....). In the dark years, immediately after Harley had been owned (and nearly destroyed) by AMF, there were serious discussions underway to retire the brand. Japanese UJM's were being imported in spades and it was becoming obvious that; 1) the Japanese bikes were orders of magnitudes less expensive, and 2) they were not the 'junk' that the Haley guys would have had you believe. (remember: you meet the nicest people on a Honda?) You may not agree with #2 there, but the sales figures, and company/ congressional reaction to these, do not lie. Harley had been steadily losing market share to the imports, mostly Japanese, for quite a while. The down-ward spiral was crystal clear. Harley remained in business simply because motorcycle sales were up in general -why? Because of the Japanese!
So what happened next -do you remember? In 1983 Harley successfully lobbied congress to impose displacement-based tariffs (45% for the big ones!). They had been trying to cheat the system in this way for a long time. In fact, the Brits were hurting their sales in the early 50's and Harley got in real trouble for pushing for a 40% tariff. Anyway, in 1983, not to be dissuaded from past sins, Harley lobbyists managed to successfully secure steep 600CC, 750CC, 1000CC progressive tariffs with an eye on explicitly slowing the Japanese down. (It's for THIS reason that since ~1985 through to today, 599CC, and 749CC, and 999 or 998CC are common import motorcycle displacements...) So the Japanese were not slowed down much, but it was enough. Harley did not change their bikes, but what they did change, was their IMAGE and the IMAGE of their bikes. It was at this point that it became about marketing, at the expense of motorcycle engineering and it has been ever since.
Harley had a real chance to be about the bikes again with Eric Buell, but they failed miserably, mostly because Eric stupidly trusted Harley and their shark attorneys too much. Eric had actually assumed that Harley was about building bikes, as he was/ is, and when it became about the bean counters, and Harley had a bad couple of quarters, the Buell division was simply "unnecessary fat". That one single decision shows you all you need to know about how much Harley values R&D. As a company, I have little respect for them. Their riders have largely adopted the affect of that tough/ independent/ loaner that Harley makes it's branding about (yet 82%!). It's made the riders, in large part, dicks. There are exceptions, but all too many Harley guys fail to see it's about BIKING and fellowship, in the context of a larger community. Many Harley guys I know are just plain snobs, they actually believe their bikes and they, are fundamentally better. For me that's tough to swallow. James, you seem to me to be an exception to this.
Dan
Well said Dan.
Quote from: crzyjarmans on August 09, 2013, 07:50:20 AM
"Parts are always fallen off Harley's", I have had many and have never had any part fall off,
I strongly disagree, I worked at a Honda / Harley dealership in early 80's. It is also where I fine honed my welding skills!
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2013, 10:45:35 AM
Quote from: crzyjarmans on August 09, 2013, 07:50:20 AM
"Parts are always fallen off Harley's", I have had many and have never had any part fall off,
I strongly disagree, I worked at a Honda / Harley dealership in early 80's. It is also where I fine honed my welding skills!
Noel
In fairness Noel, the AMF Harley's -from around that service vintage, were particularly bad incarnations of HD motorcycles. Of all of them that may be prone to shit falling off, the AMF versions would be among the top of the list.
Dan
Quote from: crzyjarmans on August 09, 2013, 07:50:20 AM
OK! I'll Bite, The only reason I can come up with, with the Harley bashing, is?, You cant handle bikes this size at high speeds, Plus on the investment side of this, a Harley is a better chose, Holds there value better than most, It's also a different life style, For me, Riding 80-90 MPH, swerving in and out around other vehicles is just stupid, When I was younger, I thought going fast was cool, But then I grew up and became an adult, I've heard others on this forum say, "Parts are always fallen off Harley's", I have had many and have never had any part fall off,
The reason for the Harley bashing is, for the most part, two fold:
1. Many, though not all, Harley riders are elitist assholes.
Many of them have a lot of money to spend on image, but don't have anything behind it; they're THE quintessential posers. And then they look down on everyone else?
What's not to hate?
2. The Harley brand is a marketing brand; they are not designing interesting machines from an engineering standpoint. They focus almost exclusively on looks and ergonomics–as in LA-Z BOY ergonomics. Their machines are passionless, and are merely a step up from being a couch potato.
The brand has no soul. It's all been sold out.
And riders that fall for that? Of course they immediately lose respect from the motorcycling community. No one likes Harley riders except for people who know nothing about bikes, and other Harley riders.
As far as smart money, if you want to 'invest' and get a return of any kind, a Harley is not the way to do it. Count in maintenance and insurance costs, and even before those you'll probably lose several thousand dollars if you sell it in 5 years.
An FJ? Buy an 'investment' FJ for under 1000, have FUN fixing it, get years of enjoyment out odfit, and sell it at a small profit. Even a total loss FJ will not lose you as much as your 'investment' Harley, you're deluding yourself.
Further, hop on your local craigslist and find some pristine 5 year old CBR's or Hayabusas, and I think you'll be surprised by how much value they hold, when well maintained.
But really, if my argument for 'why buy X bike' rests on 'well, it's a wiser choice for pragmatic reason y', then i've entirely missed the point of owning a motorcycle. Nothing could do better to underscore the lack of passion in a decision making process then to make it about 'wise investing'.
As someone on here once said (Noel?), if you don't have to turn around and look at it every time you walk away, you got the wrong one.
90% of Harley riders are morons.
Probably more like 98%, but anyhow.
Harleys aren't necessarily bad bikes. That said, if anyone owns a Harley and won't ride it in the rain (excluding true classics, etc), odds are they're a 'lifestyle' biker rather than a motorcyclist. And 'lifestyle' bikers are morons, no matter if they're on Harley iron, Ducati, GSXR, or whatever.
My usual rule, in IL, is that I'll wave to anyone who rides with a helmet (which are optional), and I'll wave to anyone who rides in the rain. If they ride in the hail, I'll wince along with them! I don't give a shit what you ride, I give a shit about WHY you ride it.
Here's the original rant by (http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html) Christopher Shields over at American Angst
It's quite a long one.
Extract below.
Quote from: Christopher Shields
What image comes to mind when you think Harley?
Power? Nope. Handling? Nope. Well educated owner? Nope. Member of society riding it? Nope. See one parked outside the Country Club? Nope. See a Harley on the race track? Nope.
These are the images that come to mind when I think of a Harley: Redneck, trailer park, cheap beer, truck stops, bad country music, pickup trucks, tattoos up one arm and down the other, leather wallet on a chain, Rottweilers as pets, German W.W.II helmet with the spike on top, murals on the tank, trailer parks, Grim Reaper, uncut beard, Hell's Angels, Nazis, smoke filled bars, knife hidden in the boot, American flag bandanna, huge belt buckle, leather saddlebags, tassels, wannabe rider. Everything that motorcycles are not supposed to stand for.
Does anything positive come to mind when I think of a Harley? Uh.... Hold on, I'm thinking. I'm really trying to be fair...
No.
The target buyer for Harley Davidson, if I read their ads correctly, are male overweight, middle aged, sexually repressed ex-cons with an abundance of tattoos, body and facial hair, and odious personal habits. They also tend to have a severe leather fetish with a passion for chains, tassels, and metal studs.
Okay, I know this has been posted several times, but I think it tells the story best.
Bad Brad is the perfect stereotypical "new" Harley owner.
Bad Boy Brad Gets A New Bike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpOBgvHmqf4#)
There are cool Harley riders................
I must confess I have often thought it would be cool to own one too................
(http://amaproracing.com/images/content/story/santa-rosa-mile-grand-national-ama-pro-flat-track-harley-davidson-insurance-california.jpg)
Course there are, it's uncommon though.
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg598/kobo53/BikeMeFunny/549525_10151114542418816_49285928_n_zps9022cb35.jpg)
The flat trackers are cool bikes and I love the racing. I sat next to Chris Carr at a supermoto race once!
However, those bikes are to a Harley what the V&H dragbike is to a VROD. :-)
And remember back in the '80s when Ricky Graham and Bubba Shobert were kicking their asses on Hondas? After Graham won the championship, there were suddenly a bunch of new rules that favored the Harley teams.
And let's not forget the TZ750 flat tracker that Kenny Roberts made (in)famous at Indy (and which was immediately banned from competition).
Sorry, went off topic there.
What kind of an organization is proud to beat Japanese 600 cc bikes with their 1000 cc bike. Really?
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on August 09, 2013, 05:56:16 PM
Okay, I know this has been posted several times, but I think it tells the story best.
Bad Brad is the perfect stereotypical "new" Harley owner.
Bad Boy Brad Gets A New Bike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpOBgvHmqf4#)
This one makes me laugh to the point of tears.
"I've been hiding myself...." :lol:
Best South Park episode ever:
Harley Riders Are Fags SOUTH PARK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlZEK4Ah_Cc#ws)
Dan
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 08, 2013, 09:05:37 PM
Quote from: Klavdy on August 08, 2013, 07:12:08 PM
Harleys are what they are,but it seems they are mostly used by people who cant ride very well and have no real intention of putting in the commitment to improving their skills.
This is THE best description I have ever read!
I not only agree with this, I have had the misfortune of getting stuck behind a particular HD rider on a charity ride.
He and his wide-load ol' lady could NOT hold a line going around a curve to save their asses, and were such a menace on two wheels, I pulled out of the ridicules rolling road block and let the road clear out.
I have since given up on ANY motorcycling planned events in my area because I know it is all the same, no matter what, and have instead turned my interest in to attending our rallies! Thank God for that!
Leon
From my motorcycling experience (on street bikes), this is exactly what I see! :negative:
It doesn't apply to just Harley riders, but Jap cruiser riders as well.(although the Jap cruisers handle slightly better, and are put together better)
I ride with a couple riding groups from time to time........................I now make it a point to specifically sign up for a ride ONLY if I don't see any cruiser riders signed up.
Sorry, but it's just not my speed.
Riding 10-15mph UNDER the posted speed limit, while weaving all over the lane because you have no idea what to do with a curve in the road, is the most unsafe riding I have ever seen.
Also, why is it that cruiser riders in general ride directly ON the back bumper of whatever vehicle they are following? What's with that?
Sorry CrazyJarmins, but for the most part, Harleys are considered "Overrated Garbage" by the majority of the motorcycling community, ridden by riders who care more about image than about actually riding a motorcycle...............That is just the way it is!
I'm not sure why you expected any different from a Japanese Sport/Touring community....................
You might be an exception? You might actually care about riding motorcycles? Your riding ability might be at a higher level than most cruiser riders?..............But this post wasn't aimed at you, it is merely poking fun at the general stereotype of the average Harley rider.
I don't frequent any Harley forums trying to justify owning a Yamaha, but if I did, maybe there would be someone posting about his adventure to Alaska, with 3 other Harley riders? (we should ask Zwartie how many he saw along the way, compared to the BMWs) It might move my image of their stereotype up a notch...........
I don't speed in traffic, I don't weave in and out of cars....................in fact, I ride WITH traffic(I will pass cars on the double yellow from time to time, but it's not unsafe) and for the most part, wether I'm on my FJ, or in one of my cages, the majority of riders I see weaving in and out of cars are Harley riders..............
Sure there are sport bike riders who do it, but it is NOT the norm, it's merely what you see because they are the ones who stand out.........and in Denver at least, I see alot more Harley riders doing this than Sport bike riders, and in my years of riding/driving experience, this is what I have observed...........
I don't have anything against Harleys, or cruisers in general.............they are just not my speed. They cater to a different crowd, one that I honestly don't care to be a part of........
It's the same thing with me and "Pickup Trucks"................There are people who go absolutely bonkers over lowered, lifted, in general, pickup trucks...............They don't do a damn thing for me! I have never owned one, and I don't care to ever own one...................they are simply not my thing!
The only Harley that even slightly interests me is the XR1200............(But only slightly) The design actually is not all that bad, and it does have a decent enough ground clearance for actually going around corners, but I would never own one....................They are just too F'ing slow for me. I actually LIKE to ride...........(I have ridden one.They suck!)
Their 1200cc is NOT comparable to the rest of the motorcycling world's 1200cc, certainly not comparable to an FJ's.
Their current technology is light-years behind even our 30-year old air-cooled technology...................More comparable to a modern 400cc motorcycle, at least for power output(not in terms of engineering)......
Keep in mind.............You don't Graduate UP to a Harley(I hear people say that from time to time) You don't grow UP and get a Harley(you might grow OLD and get one)
You simply decide "I want to step DOWN to a mortorcycle with far less capability than most, merely for the sake of my image, because this is what I like"
(and nobody better give me that crap about a more comfortable riding position!) It's NOT! You try riding for any length of time with your arms and legs stretched out in front of you........Go ahead!. I've tried it!
I do agree that they are popular however.............They seem to sell like hotcakes...In the way that pickup trucks sell like hotcakes..............
The majority of the riding groups that I see, cater to cruiser or harley riders........I have actually only found two riding groups around Denver that cater to Sport, or Sport/Touring riders............. I actually left a riding group that was mainly cruisers, not because it was mainly cruisers, but because there was way too much drama between it's members.........hard to believe :sarcastic:
For me, owning a Harley would be like.......................well, owning a pickup truck.........(they handle like crap, and both are used for either image, or carrying heavy loads) :sarcastic: Sorry, couldn't resist.
PS...........CrazyJarmins, you should spy over on the Harley forum, and see what they are saying about Yamaha owners :drinks:
Quote from: Firehawk068 on August 09, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Also, why is it that cruiser riders in general ride directly ON the back bumper of whatever vehicle they are following? What's with that?
Because they're riding the same way they drive their car. And they don't drive their car particularly well, either.
A motorbike is not a car, and you don't use one in traffic the same way. It also is not a car and doesn't get used in the same way when there's not traffic around.
I've ranted endlessly on about this in the past, so I'll refrain here, but that's the reason why you see people, usually "weekend" riders doing things like not holding a line through a curve, turning in too early, tailgating, and so on. They don't understand the difference between a motorcycle and a car, and it seems that the bulk of the population isn't particularly good in a car either.
That's why so many people wad their bikes up when it "wasn't their fault". They were riding it like it was a car.
Quote from: Klavdy on August 09, 2013, 08:58:18 AM
Harley Bashing?
No, not the bikes, some of the riders that define themselves through having one, do you understand the difference?
If you like your Harley, that's great,ride it,enjoy it and why give a shit what people on a site dedicated to Japanese sports touring bikes think about it or the faithful?
Bite, eh?
Let's de-construct your post a little, eh?
Your premise seems to be based on more than one thing, not "The only reason I can come up with"
For convenience, let's overlook that and look at your "reasons"
Can't handle bikes this size at high speed?
An FJ weighs around 590 pounds,has around a 59" wheelbase, a Dyna Wide Glide, around 680 pounds,about 68" wheelbase, both biggish bikes.
High Speed.
You really suggesting that 80 mph is "High Speed"?
You honestly believe that?
I guess for something that is loud,slow,outdated, overpriced and ridden poorly it probably is, but not for a competent rider on an FJ.
So, no, that first point of yours looks to be incorrect.
n
Investment?
Seriously?
What, you going to get more for a H.D after a few years than what you paid for it?
Because that's what an "Investment (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp)" is.
A different lifestyle, eh?
Guess that's what Jim Jones followers were looking for down at Jonestown, Guyana too,eh? A different lifestyle.
Drink the Kool-Aid, wear the T-Shirt, pretty much the same thing.
For you,riding 80-90 mph ,swerving etc is just stupid.
Yes, for you, it most probably is.
When you were young, you thought going 80 mph was cool.
Then, when you grew up you heard others on this forum saying parts fall off Harleys.
You say you've had many and no parts have fallen off.
Your anecdotal evidence relates to your particular machines, not the ones others have observed.
Your observations don't prove anything other than what has happened to your bikes.
You've been a member here since the delightfully apt date of April 01, 2013,so effectively you are saying that's when you grew up.
(http://culleynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hardly_texting.jpg)
No need to get angry, you guys are the ones that started with the bashing, If you cant take the retaliation, you should chime in on the bashing, Maybe I should have posted that the 80-90 MPH was on surface roads, not freeways, but if you think this is smart living , that is your choose, but getting angry over it, OH, And the picture of the dresser looks just like the one I had
Eh, last week I worked up a good sweat replacing a control arm in my wife's car in the Georgia afternoon August summer heat and humidity. With a bit of daylight left, I decided I'd like to make a nice breeze for myself so I hopped on the FJ wearing just the grimy shorts, sneakers, and t-shirt. I wore a helmet so I wouldn't get pulled over in my extended ride-around-the-block, but if it wasn't mandated by law I probably would have skipped it too.
Felt nice. And I can see why a bike suited to street-clothes speeds (where 40 is nice, 50 is brisk, and 60 mph feels downright fast) can be a nice way to go. The couple of Harley-engined bikes I've ridden felt right at home in the speed range I used last Friday. Not the sort of riding I do normally (or even enough to warrant a bike better-suited for it) but I can see the appeal.
By contrast, girding yourself in boots, gloves, full Aerostich (Andrew) or even just jeans and a Vanson (me) and riding behind a half-fairing as on an FJ or EX500 makes 60 mph feel like you're standing still, and even 80 mph feels largely the same except there's more noise and buffeting. When Andrew and I went out Saturday afternoon, opening the visor was necessary to get any enjoyable sense of motion when among traffic - and when traffic cleared, we needed to step up the pace considerably to amuse ourselves. Completely different kind of fun.
When we waved, it wasn't out of some hope that a bunch of weekend pretend-pirates would wave back and thereby offer us tacit approval or admission to their club - it was just us being polite. And when we passed those two couples on their loud shiny Harleys and they gunned it to show us they had a lot more power than they were using, it's a good thing they were loud because otherwise we never would have known they were trying when we passed them. Afterward, they got to resume riding at the speed they felt was most fun for them, and we got to resume riding at the speed that was most fun for us.
I find myself a lot less frustrated with slower riders when I just pass 'em wherever I safely can - wave-by or no wave-by, passing zone or no passing zone.
But, with proper gear, somebody riding a cruiser can keep a pace I'm perfectly happy with. I'm never bored riding behind John The Beer Scientist on his Virago 750. Dan, do I remember correctly a Boone rally where you and two friends on a CBR1000, a VFR, and a Shadow rode east out of Damascus on a damp Highway 58 behind me and John? You guys didn't seem bored by his pace either. And John's stepdad Ralph sure had no trouble running away from me through Deal's Gap on his Sportster 1200 the last time I rode with him.
Quote from: Bill_Rockoff on August 10, 2013, 09:43:48 AM
Dan, do I remember correctly a Boone rally where you and two friends on a CBR1000, a VFR, and a Shadow rode east out of Damascus on a damp Highway 58 behind me and John? You guys didn't seem bored by his pace either.
We/I was not bored at the pace John set that day. He's not particularly slow. I really enjoyed that ride. I remember it in detail. The wet twisty Highway 58 had me being particularly cautious as I tend to be on wet roads in general. This is true for roads with patches of gravel or tar and stone roads as well; I slow way down and simply enjoy riding without pushing it. I vary my ride based on conditions as most do I guess. Had that road been dry, John's pace would likely have been too slow for me. Side note: I do remember you telling me that my CBR was running rich, I found out after that rally that my air filter had been clogged for quite a while -oops.
And for the record, I don't 'hate' cruisers, not even Harley's. In fact, I've seen people on Harley's and cruisers that were indeed faster than me, in any conditions. What I rail against is the Harley rider, and the company that purport themselves and their bikes to be something they simply are not. They do this with such attitude and bravado that it begs the sort of negative attention this thread seems to be about.
Dan
Had a friend back in the mid eighties who rode a harley roadster 79 1000. At 13,500 miles the top end was shot. New pistons, rings, valves, cams. He was told that his bike had done well most did not make it that long before this needed to be done. I have owned 2 stroke bikes that had more miles on them before the rings were replaced. He still rides them and we don't ride together any more. To me a motorcycle is about performance and the Harley brand is the opposite of this. You are not about going fast ok. An advantage for the sake of safety, stopping, handling are important for dealing with incidents that arise when ridding. Just the stopping alone are huge, this alone can be the difference between going home or to the hospital. JMO.
Keep the wheels turning.
Kurt
Quote from: crzyjarmans on August 10, 2013, 08:46:55 AMNo need to get angry, you guys are the ones that started with the bashing, If you cant take the retaliation, you should not chime in on the bashing, Maybe I should have posted that the 80-90 MPH was on surface roads, not freeways, but if you think this is smart living , that is your choose, but getting angry over it, OH, And the picture of the dresser looks just like the one I had
FTFY... at least that's what i think you really meant.
You
do realize that this isn't a Hardley-Ableson forum... right? :scratch_one-s_head:
Seems that you're the one that got angry to me.
Quote from: crzyjarmans on August 10, 2013, 08:46:55 AM
No need to get angry, you guys are the ones that started with the bashing, If you cant take the retaliation, you should chime in on the bashing, Maybe I should have posted that the 80-90 MPH was on surface roads, not freeways, but if you think this is smart living , that is your choose, but getting angry over it, OH, And the picture of the dresser looks just like the one I had
Angry?
Retaliation?
Smart living?
Haha!
C'mon Shawn, what do you reckons going to happen when someone comes onto a website dedicated to Japanese sport touring bikes and attempts to inarticulately defend those awful land barges?
We know the truth about Harleys, they just aren't very good motorcycles and the majority of their apologist riders are deluded, doesn't matter what you splutter.
Not working out quite the way you expected,is it,especially when your posts make you look like a near illiterate moron.
Try again.
We've been pecked harder and smarter by ducks.
Man you guys took the worm and ran with. If you ride your alright in my opinion. Some of you speak of Harley riders being moronic assholes, seems we have a few here also! Some of you are bashing Harley riders but in the same voice you have become what you are bashing. Children what have we become?
Hahaha!
Course you'd say that.
You've got a Harley.
Sorry... :sorry:...he started it...My tribe...Not his...(Fags!)
Distraught over what people are saying, the bikers realize what they must do ta stop the "F" word..
We're Turning Some Heads! (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/254814)
Meh!...Child?....am not.
I've got an excellent update to this thread................
My co-worker at the county fleet shop owns a 100th anniversary model..............I think it's a 1340cc but I'm not entirely sure..........
He tells me today that on his way home yesterday(he has the 6:00-2:30 shift), his bike started making all sorts of clanging noises coming from the bottom end, then just as the noises started, the bike dies on the freeway.
He has it towed to Mile High Harley, and upon inspection, it turns out that the flywheel decided to exit the crankshaft.............Now keep in mind, his Harley has 4500 miles on it!
And the best part about it.................Get this........................The Harley shop tells him "This is a common problem, it happens all the time" :mocking:
When he got the Harley, he traded in a Suzuki Boulevard (I think) cruiser...........which he never had any trouble with..........
I had a buddy, Chris some years back that owned a similar sailboat on the same dock as I did and through that, we became pretty good friends. At some point he started asking about my FJ and said he had been thinking about getting a bike, but wasn't on board with the Japanese stuff. I wasn't offended...I even encouraged it...It'd be great to have a riding buddy!
Well, fast forward a month and he knocked on the cabin of my boat like a kid on Christmas morning!!! He walked me out to the parking lot to show me his brand new bike. A Harley Sportster!!! WHAT? Ug. I tried to be positive even though it was a Harley...AND the *little* Harley that a girl I dated in college rode. Well, nevertheless I was encouraging as he told me about the "deal" he got on it at the Harley shop. I nodded endlessly as he driveled on about the extras he bought with it...The chrome gas cap...the chrome belt cover...the chrome kickstand...it seemed to go on forever and I was thinking to myself, "who the eff cares if your kickstand is chrome??" He told me he ran out of money and had to stop, but there were lots more chrome parts he had on his list! I was slackjaw over the amount of money he dropped on that bike!
Over the next few days, he kept poking me about how much better his bike was than my JAPANESE bike! No worries...that weekend we went on a first ride and I had no idea what to expect. He was actually a decent rider! We were riding around the SoCal beach towns of Redondo, Hermosa and Manhattan on our way to a burger joint for some lunch. We pulled up to a stop light and over the roar of his Harley, I loudly asked if he needed to stop for gas on the next corner. He unscrewed his gas cap, looked down into the tank, shook the bike left to right and said, "Nope...I'm good." I lost it! I was STUNNED! I started cracking up and through the laughter asked, "That fawking thing doesn't even have a fuel guage???!!!" For the money they get for those bikes, I couldn't believe it!
He just flipped me off and we rode on. At the next light, he pulled up along side me again...With my best acting, I shook my head, gestured to the guages on my FJ and barked, "SON of a BITCH!" He got a big grin on his face and said, "Ahhhh...what's wrong with YOUR bike???" I said angrily, "The digital clock didn't automatically reset for daylight savings time!!!!" He flipped me off again and we proceded to The Shack in Playa del Rey to get some burgers.
In the parking lot when we pulled up there were two full-dress seriously custom Harleys...I mean the stuff even I look at and say...WOW...The amount of effort, money and time they put into those bikes...and the obvious passion for a hobby is something I admire. He was BEAMING!! He proceded to explain all the bits and bobs on these two amazing bikes. I have a short span of attention for these things beyond the initial glance so I gestured towards the open door of the bar.
When we got inside, there were two patrons seated near the end of the bar who were obviously the owners of those Harleys. One bearded guy all in leathers and tatoos and a very large, rough-looking woman sitting next to him who was very preoccupied with a bacon cheeseburger. My buddy Chris strikes up a conversation..."Say, are those your two (something I don't remember) Glides out there? I see you have the chrome whozit and the extra wide whatzit on those!!" The guy replies, "Wow, you really know your Harleys...what do you ride?" Chris says rather sheepishly..."Well, I got a starter bike...uh...y'know, something I could afford...uh...I got me a new Sporty 883!" The woman dropped her cheeseburger, looked at my buddy and said, "I'm sorry...I thought you were a MAN!"
I couldn't say a word...I actually felt bad for him. The following week he rode it out to Phoenix to get some overly loud exhaust installed that the
California dealers weren't allowed to sell. Apparently, he need to repair his ego with even more noise and shiny bits. About halfway through the Arizona desert (in July) the entire wiring harness fried on his bike leaving him stranded. This was a bike that was less than a month old! He had to get it towed to the nearest Harley shop to get it fixed. That took two weeks and two rental cars back and forth. A month later, he sued the original Harley dealer to take the bike back and was riding a metric cruiser...a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 at much less than he had into his Sporty!
If a cruiser bike is your style...go for it...but at least do it on a bike that's engineered well...not something that's WAY over priced for what you get and is marketed (and priced) on image alone.
Cap'n Ron. . .
I traded a 2000 sportster for my 92fj, best horse trade I ever made. rewind 10 years...traded a 98st1100
for a 20ft boat. had the boat for 9 years and had it for sale when a guy offered to trade for the sportster, thought what the hell, never owned a Harley before. biggest piece of junk ever thru a leg over(besides my first wife) however, this has a happy ending because when I was trying to sell the Harley a guy approached me with a trade for a cherry 92FJ....aaah true love at last. the st was a good bike too, but I give the nod to the FJ.
Scott
i've avoided this thread for a while.
anyone watch the UFC? i love it. but it really bugs the shit out of me, one of their sponsors is H/D, which is fine. but their slogan is:
"harley davidson. the only motorcycle worthy to be in the octagon".
that whole elitist attitude. clueless sheeple following marketing b.s. reminds me of bose. did i just say that?
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 11, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
i've avoided this thread for a while.
That whole elitist attitude. clueless sheeple following marketing b.s. reminds me of bose. did i just say that?
No highs, no lows, must be BOSE! :shok:
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 11, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
i've avoided this thread for a while.
anyone watch the UFC? i love it. but it really bugs the shit out of me, one of their sponsors is H/D, which is fine. but their slogan is:
"harley davidson. the only motorcycle worthy to be in the octagon".
that whole elitist attitude. clueless sheeple following marketing b.s. reminds me of bose. did i just say that?
You love the U.F.C,eh?
Bet you could watch it for hours and hours, eh?
That'd explain a lot. (http://www.theonion.com/articles/insecure-frustrated-bully-with-something-to-prove,33427/)
We're still having that Pikes Peak race too, don't think you can weasel out of it this time either.
Quote from: jamesearthdrum on August 13, 2013, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 11, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
i've avoided this thread for a while.
That whole elitist attitude. clueless sheeple following marketing b.s. reminds me of bose. did i just say that?
No highs, no lows, must be BOSE! :shok quote]
+1 to That!!!!!
Man did this thread get hot for a while! I leave for a few days, come back, and you guys put me in stitches. I'm going to make an assumption here, (and you know the saying about those), but: I think the thing that really gets under my, (our), skin is the fact that Harley has become a triumph of form over function. I HATE, abhor, and despise that!
Bike are a tool, meant to be ridden and to do a good a job of that as their designers could manage. Harleys quit decades ago. I admired the V-rod when it came out, and I've seriously thought that a Buell Ulysses would be a great bike. I've spent my life working with airplanes, and nowhere will you find shiny trinkets replacing necessary capabilities. It's heretical to the entire underlying philosophy of the operation.
That is the Rubicon that Harley crossed. Their old bikes are really cool, (don't start, you need to take that literally), in their time and place they did a great job, but THE WORLD HAS MOVED ON! If you wish to be an ignorant, dumb-ass reprobate, fine, but my wife's scooter can do 80% of what your Harley can do, at 1/20 of the price. (But it's rice.) I know some great people with Harleys, but it's about the life, not the ride.
I'll slip back into my 'stich now, and get back on the road, alone.
Sorry, end of rant.
(Klavdy, where the hell do you find all those great er, "illustrations"?)
Quote from: Klavdy on August 13, 2013, 04:30:57 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 11, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
i've avoided this thread for a while.
anyone watch the UFC? i love it. but it really bugs the shit out of me, one of their sponsors is H/D, which is fine. but their slogan is:
"harley davidson. the only motorcycle worthy to be in the octagon".
that whole elitist attitude. clueless sheeple following marketing b.s. reminds me of bose. did i just say that?
You love the U.F.C,eh?
Bet you could watch it for hours and hours, eh?
That'd explain a lot. (http://www.theonion.com/articles/insecure-frustrated-bully-with-something-to-prove,33427/)
We're still having that Pikes Peak race too, don't think you can weasel out of it this time either.
don't you mean the "klowny pulls his hamstring in the first 10 yards of the foot race" race?
Did you go to Pikes Peak?
I'll meet you there after next Memorial day or you could come to the West Coast Rally and I'll ride back part of the way with you.
We'll ride around Colorado and other places.
Go on, what else have you got to do these days?