Hey all,
Changing out my clutch at the moment. It was slipping pretty bad at about 6500 rpm with full throttle second and third gears. Was even slipping in forth and fifth sometimes. Well, I have it tore down and it appears to be in great shape. There are no burn marks and the disc look like new. I am pretty sure this is the original clutch and the bike has about 50,000 miles. Could it be the spring? I am going to change everything out with new parts, but it really doesn't appear to need to be changed, unless the friction plates have just gotten hard over time. I am going to take the groups advice and add a second diaphragm spring. I am just really surprised at how little wear there is on the disc and friction plates.
Yes, I soaked the friction plates prior to installation.
Later..... :bye2:
A quick question. Will the second diaphragm spring stay in place without moving?
Second spring will move until the inner fingers are offset with each other. Won't hurt anything.
Normally a clutch slips worst in higher gears, not lower gears...? Use OEM clutch stuff and honestly you could just replace the spring instead of doubling it, or shim it slightly. Double springs makes for a pretty manly clutch lever, so a 14mm master may be in your future.
Quote from: andyb on October 02, 2009, 09:30:03 PM
Second spring will move until the inner fingers are offset with each other. Won't hurt anything.
Normally a clutch slips worst in higher gears, not lower gears...? Use OEM clutch stuff and honestly you could just replace the spring instead of doubling it, or shim it slightly. Double springs makes for a pretty manly clutch lever, so a 14mm master may be in your future.
Thanks.
Got r done. The clutch is a little harder to pull, but I think I can handle it. I may go with a Barnett conversion kit some time in the future, but this will work for now. Like you said in an early post, if you have the Barnett set up you can always change the spring rates. I took it out for a short drive and it definitely needed the clutch work done.
I also added a Kerker White Tip full exhaust system. I had to make my own hanger to keep it off the brake, but over all it seems to work nice and it definitely is much better looking than the Vance and Hines.
Later... :bye2:
Quote from: higbonzo on October 03, 2009, 12:23:53 AM
Got r done. The clutch is a little harder to pull, but I think I can handle it. I may go with a Barnett conversion kit some time in the future, but this will work for now. Like you said in an early post, if you have the Barnett set up you can always change the spring rates.
If you do get the Barnett setup in hopes of lightening the pull from the double spring setup, get springs other than those that come with the kit. Honestly, you'd probably be better off to get a 14mm clutch master instead. You might want to consider a braided line while you have it apart.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 03, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: higbonzo on October 03, 2009, 12:23:53 AM
Got r done. The clutch is a little harder to pull, but I think I can handle it. I may go with a Barnett conversion kit some time in the future, but this will work for now. Like you said in an early post, if you have the Barnett set up you can always change the spring rates.
If you do get the Barnett setup in hopes of lightening the pull from the double spring setup, get springs other than those that come with the kit. Honestly, you'd probably be better off to get a 14mm clutch master instead. You might want to consider a braided line while you have it apart.
Randy T
Indy
I am already saving for a complete braided line set up for my bike. I will have to check into the larger reservoir, but theoretically I've been told the restore size shouldn't make a difference on pressure applied to make clutch or brake function. Although fulcrum point makes a big difference.
Thanks.
Later...... :bye2:
mine sliped like hell till i changed the oil to a 20/50 morris ringfree it has never sliped since
Quote from: higbonzo on October 03, 2009, 09:31:54 AM
I am already saving for a complete braided line set up for my bike. I will have to check into the larger reservoir, but theoretically I've been told the restore size shouldn't make a difference on pressure applied to make clutch or brake function. Although fulcrum point makes a big difference.
Higbonzo,
The point of the 14mm m/c is not a larger reservoir but the larger bore diameter (14mm vs. 12mm), thus increasing your mechanical advantage.
Cheers, and Kookaloo! (http://i37.tinypic.com/ztwvpz.gif)
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 03, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
If you do get the Barnett setup in hopes of lightening the pull from the double spring setup, get springs other than those that come with the kit. Honestly, you'd probably be better off to get a 14mm clutch master instead. You might want to consider a braided line while you have it apart.
Why's that, randy? I'm using the Barnett kit and having no problems with it as delivered. Seems like it's someplace between the double springs (too stiff to modulate effectively) and the stock setup (slipped like mad). That's with the 5/8 master, though. A 14mm may be on the shopping list for the next season, for other reasons.
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 04, 2009, 04:52:59 AM
The point of the 14mm m/c is not a larger reservoir but the larger bore diameter (14mm vs. 12mm), thus increasing your mechanical advantage.
No. The 14mm master is smaller than the stock 5/8. The
smaller bore increases your mechanical advantage :bye2:
Quote from: andyb on October 04, 2009, 07:36:02 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 03, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
If you do get the Barnett setup in hopes of lightening the pull from the double spring setup, get springs other than those that come with the kit. Honestly, you'd probably be better off to get a 14mm clutch master instead. You might want to consider a braided line while you have it apart.
Why's that, randy? I'm using the Barnett kit and having no problems with it as delivered. Seems like it's someplace between the double springs (too stiff to modulate effectively) and the stock setup (slipped like mad). That's with the 5/8 master, though. A 14mm may be on the shopping list for the next season, for other reasons.
A couple of people who rode mine with the Barnett kit complained about the stiff pull, and they said it was worse than the double spring setup. YMMV I have no problem with it either, but it definitely is firmer than stock.
Maybe they are just wussies...
I am going to put on a 14mm master at some point, but just to match the brake side in looks. I'm tired of looking at that R1 pudding cup, even if it does have the fancy-schmancy Jon Cain bracket.
Randy T
Indy
If you go with replacing the stock spring, get an FJR1300 spring. Same part but a hell of a lot cheaper, for some reason.
Hrm. I went from the double spring to the coil conversion, and the double spring was decidedly tougher at the lever.
Wonder if the conversions have gotten different springs included over the years or something. It's another perk to the coil setup; they're adjustable!
Get 2 more large friction discs, replace the small inner with one of the big ones and then take the other big disc to a machine shop along with the pressure plate and have them machine the ID of the disc so you have about .010" between the disc to pressure plate.
Reinstall the works with the stock spring and presto chango no slippy!!
Quote from: tqmx1 on October 05, 2009, 11:41:14 AM
Get 2 more large friction discs, replace the small inner with one of the big ones and then take the other big disc to a machine shop along with the pressure plate and have them machine the ID of the disc so you have about .010" between the disc to pressure plate.
Reinstall the works with the stock spring and presto chango no slippy!!
With this setup my clutch NEVER slipped. You might think about removing the little wire retaining doohickey that encircles the basket also. You'll have a tiny bit more clutch chatter BUT if that wire retainer comes off in the motor you are Fucked.
What did your friction discs measure. The difference between good and bad is not readily visible to the naked eye. I recently rebuilt Deans clutch and on initial inspection everything looked fine. Once measured all of the friction plates were out of spec and all but 2 of the steels were warped out of spec.
For the record I don't see the point in doubling the spring. Refreshing the spring with a new part (FJ or FJR) is a good idea every now and then but the stock spring is plenty. Dean is a good example of this, he rides as hard or harder than any FJ'er I have met and the stock clutch works just fine for him. The DeanabagoII had around 60,000 miles on it when I went through the clutch after a life of questionable maintenance (prior to Dean, he actually takes very good care of his bikes) most of the parts that were out of spec were only out by a sall margin and there was no "burn" marks on the steels from excessive slippage.
I run stock clutch setups in all my bikes and several of you know how abusive I can be....
Quote from: the fan on October 10, 2009, 08:58:40 AM
What did your friction discs measure. The difference between good and bad is not readily visible to the naked eye. I recently rebuilt Deans clutch and on initial inspection everything looked fine. Once measured all of the friction plates were out of spec and all but 2 of the steels were warped out of spec.
I didn't measure the steel plates. But they were not burned or warped. My bike has about 50,000 miles clock in, and it was just time for things to be replaced.
I got out of it cheap. I purchase a good set of friction plate (ferodo) off e-bay for $55.00 shipped, a complete used clutch set up for $38.00 shipped ( used the spring), and new gasket and Barnett steel plates $68.00 from local dealer. I am using the Dual Spring set up and I am very happy with it. I think because the springs both have about 50,000 miles on them it keeps the clutch pull pressure down. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly increased pressure, but it is nothing I can't deal with.
I am very happy with the work and parts I put into the clutch, and it is nice to crank the throttle at 15-20 mph. and be able to yank the front tire off the ground again. :crazy: It put the excitement back into my bike. :good:
Later..... :bye2:
Yes, the 2nd spring will stay in place. You do, of course, have to put it under the "keeper" with the original spring.
Cheers,
Arnie
It sounds like I also will be needing a couple of clutch parts. In the picture below are the fiber discs #9? During the fiber disc change, is it common to need #10? :unknown:
Also, in the picture below, where is this clutch spring that I should change with a fresh (cheaper) FJR spring for more grabbing power? :mail1:
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/2fast4u2_Photo/Clutchparts.jpg)
#14. Spring, Clutch. :morning1:
Randy T
Indy
Thanks Randy!
Anyone else know in the picture above are the fiber discs #9? During the fiber disc change, is it common to need #10? :unknown:
Quote from: europe50 on October 20, 2009, 08:03:55 AM
It sounds like I also will be needing a couple of clutch parts. In the picture below are the fiber discs #9? During the fiber disc change, is it common to need #10? :unknown:
Also, in the picture below, where is this clutch spring that I should change with a fresh (cheaper) FJR spring for more grabbing power? :mail1:
The spring is #14. As it appears you already know: the FJR spring is IDENTICAL to the FJ spring - just cheaper in price. #10 and #7 are the same. They go in between each of the discs #9. There are small indentions on the metal plates #10 & #7. If they are worn down and smoothed out you should change them too. You would need a quantity of 6 of part #9. A quantity of 7 of part number #10 for a full change out.
Marsh White,
Thanks allot for the info!
Quote from: europe50 on October 20, 2009, 12:19:54 PM
...or is it mandatory I replace all #9, #7 and #10?
That is only a question you can answer. The fiber discs and steel plates have a minimum measurement spec that warrants replacement. The minimum spec for the fibers discs is 2.8mm(.11 in) and the steels can only have 0.1mm (0.004 in) of warpage on a flat surface. The diaphragm spring height minimum tolerance is 6.0mm (0.240 in) at the center to the level surface. Lastly, the spring warpage tolerance is also 0.1mm (0.004 in).
I noted, with a link, in my previous response that there was the procedure of removing the small rear/inner clutch disc and replacing it with the larger one.
If you currently have minor slippage, I would add the second spring and give it a try. If then you still have slipping issues they can be addressed from there.
Let me know directly if I can be assistance with either guidance or parts.
Randy - RPM
rpm@swaybar.com
Hey Randy,
I hope I don't look like a dope asking, but where is the link in your previously responce that there was the procedure of removing the small rear/inner clutch disc and replacing it with the larger one?
Thanks!
I posted it to your "clutch lever pull distance..." thread, sorry they are similar. Here it is again: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1014.msg7367#msg7367 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1014.msg7367#msg7367)
Randy - RPM