Hi,
I want to change the dog bones on my 93 FJ and I am finding it really hard to find steel flat bar that is 1/4 inch thick. All I can find is 1/8 inch thick. I live in Montreal Quebec Canada. I went to four different hardware stores and they didn't have it and contacted a steel supplier who said that they don't sell to the public and wouldn't give me any more information. Would anyone here know someone who can fabricate them? It would be good to have a finished product but I am very capable of doing the job if I at least can get the proper material to do it.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: chocker on June 22, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
Hi,
I want to change the dog bones on my 93 FJ and I am finding it really hard to find steel flat bar that is 1/4 inch thick. All I can find is 1/8 inch thick. I live in Montreal Quebec Canada. I went to four different hardware stores and they didn't have it and contacted a steel supplier who said that they don't sell to the public and wouldn't give me any more information. Would anyone here know someone who can fabricate them? It would be good to have a finished product but I am very capable of doing the job if I at least can get the proper material to do it.
Thanks,
Mark
Mark, you posted at a good time. I also want to adjust my (future) dog bones... I have access to a material called Domex. We get it in 0.188 thickness, but it is quite tough stuff, look it up. I also have access to a 3000W CO2 laser that cuts this stuff like butter. I have been hoping to get my hands on a pair of stock (OEM) dog bones to measure and design after market bones in Domex... Perhaps we can help each other out... Interested in Monkey made parts for your FJ?
I can say that monkey made parts are freakin awesome. If Mark says he is going to make something, you can be sure that it will be top notch stuff. Big R
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
Quote from: chocker on June 22, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
Hi,
I want to change the dog bones on my 93 FJ and I am finding it really hard to find steel flat bar that is 1/4 inch thick. All I can find is 1/8 inch thick. I live in Montreal Quebec Canada. I went to four different hardware stores and they didn't have it and contacted a steel supplier who said that they don't sell to the public and wouldn't give me any more information. Would anyone here know someone who can fabricate them? It would be good to have a finished product but I am very capable of doing the job if I at least can get the proper material to do it.
Thanks,
Mark
Mark, you posted at a good time. I also want to adjust my (future) dog bones... I have access to a material called Domex. We get it in 0.188 thickness, but it is quite tough stuff, look it up. I also have access to a 3000W CO2 laser that cuts this stuff like butter. I have been hoping to get my hands on a pair of stock (OEM) dog bones to measure and design after market bones in Domex... Perhaps we can help each other out... Interested in Monkey made parts for your FJ?
Mark I have some stock bones if you want to use them for measurement. Or I can measure them for you. They are off my 1990. I made new bars after converting the rear wheel.
George
That's actually good news for me because unfortunately right now the bike is my daily driver and my wife is using the car. I would have no problem sending them to Mark but that's the problem I have. Mark is a great fabricator and he has sold me suspension bearings in the past that were of great help. Thanks again for those. Once you get the specs and are fabricating the dog bones I would definitely like to buy a set from you. The stock length from center hole to center hole is 12.5 cm and the bolt holes are 12mm in diameter I believe and from doing some searches I found that 0.5 cm shorter length = 1/2 inch on the swing arm. I can take some more measurements of width and thickness if needed or Big R probably would have better access because mine are still on my bike right now where as his set is off the bike.
Mark
Then bring on the Dog Bones, or at least some good measurements. I am out for the week but will monitor the posts as I can, my oldest son is turning 18 next week so I will be with my kids in Wonder Lake Ill till the 29th. I will see if I can get some 0.25 thick Domex for the bones, assuming that is the OEM thickness. :drinks:
WTF monkey Mark is coming to Illinois.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on June 22, 2013, 05:42:16 PM
WTF monkey Mark is coming to Illinois.
Twice a year to visit with the younger Monkey Rangers, since it is all family time I don't have much time for FJ visits. However, if given the chance I would love to visit with many members on this side of the FJ world. One day...
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 04:52:55 PM
Then bring on the Dog Bones, or at least some good measurements. I am out for the week but will monitor the posts as I can, my oldest son is turning 18 next week so I will be with my kids in Wonder Lake Ill till the 29th. I will see if I can get some 0.25 thick Domex for the bones, assuming that is the OEM thickness. :drinks:
Monkey,
I just went out to the shop and checked the thickness of the dogbones. OEM bones are .231 thick.
Joe
Quote from: Country Joe on June 22, 2013, 07:41:23 PM
Monkey,
I just went out to the shop and checked the thickness of the dogbones. OEM bones are .231 thick.
Joe
Thanks Joe, that dimension is sorted out. Are they flat like bar stock? The same thickness across the entire part?
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
Quote from: chocker on June 22, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
Hi,
I want to change the dog bones on my 93 FJ and I am finding it really hard to find steel flat bar that is 1/4 inch thick. All I can find is 1/8 inch thick. I live in Montreal Quebec Canada. I went to four different hardware stores and they didn't have it and contacted a steel supplier who said that they don't sell to the public and wouldn't give me any more information. Would anyone here know someone who can fabricate them? It would be good to have a finished product but I am very capable of doing the job if I at least can get the proper material to do it.
Thanks,
Mark
Mark, you posted at a good time. I also want to adjust my (future) dog bones... I have access to a material called Domex. We get it in 0.188 thickness, but it is quite tough stuff, look it up. I also have access to a 3000W CO2 laser that cuts this stuff like butter. I have been hoping to get my hands on a pair of stock (OEM) dog bones to measure and design after market bones in Domex... Perhaps we can help each other out... Interested in Monkey made parts for your FJ?
Mark,
I can send you my stock dog bones from my 89'. I had to fab a new set when I installed the BMW shock. Let me know and I can get them in the mail Monday.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on June 22, 2013, 07:47:47 PM
Mark,
I can send you my stock dog bones from my 89'. I had to fab a new set when I installed the BMW shock. Let me know and I can get them in the mail Monday.
Fred
PM on its way.
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: aviationfred on June 22, 2013, 07:47:47 PM
Mark,
I can send you my stock dog bones from my 89'. I had to fab a new set when I installed the BMW shock. Let me know and I can get them in the mail Monday.
Fred
PM on its way.
OK, I will put mine back in the box :good2:
George
Quote from: movenon on June 22, 2013, 07:58:13 PM
OK, I will put mine back in the box :good2:
George
George, I had the pleasure of steeling your gas cap (for a short time) to solve my fuel problem, and now I have your AM fuel pump to document the upgrade/alternate option for OEM FP solutions... It talks to me as it sits at my desk.... Yes, it speaks to me... I need more time to wrench....
This is kind of related as it is the reason I have a set of spare dog bones.
I did a 350 Mile ride today. 3/4 of the ride was scenic 2 lane roads with your normal bumps and changing asphalt type. The last 1/4 of the ride was on Interstate 35. I am absolutely in awe at the performance of the BMW shock over the OEM shock. Still have not tested the shocks performance in twisty's yet. I will find out how that goes next month at the Colorado Rally.
Fred
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Country Joe on June 22, 2013, 07:41:23 PM
Monkey,
I just went out to the shop and checked the thickness of the dogbones. OEM bones are .231 thick.
Joe
Thanks Joe, that dimension is sorted out. Are they flat like bar stock? The same thickness across the entire part?
Yes, sir. I also checked the bolt protrusion, there is .125 of threads beyond one nut and .100 on the other. An additional thickness of .038 by using .250 stock will make the self locking nuts function questionable. Taking a pass on the eyelets with a mill to reduce the thickness to stock would be a pretty good idea unless slightly longer bolts are used.
Joe
Quote from: Country Joe on June 22, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
Yes, sir. I also checked the bolt protrusion, there is .125 of threads beyond one nut and .100 on the other. An additional thickness of .038 by using .250 stock will make the self locking nuts function questionable. Taking a pass on the eyelets with a mill to reduce the thickness to stock would be a pretty good idea unless slightly longer bolts are used.
Joe
Good to know.... Thanks
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: movenon on June 22, 2013, 07:58:13 PM
OK, I will put mine back in the box :good2:
George
George, I had the pleasure of steeling your gas cap (for a short time) to solve my fuel problem, and now I have your AM fuel pump to document the upgrade/alternate option for OEM FP solutions... It talks to me as it sits at my desk.... Yes, it speaks to me... I need more time to wrench....
That's funny, I noticed that Sat. before I departed that I had a new gas cap.... :rofl2:
No problem I told Randy to feel free to use my bike as a parts bike for the rally if someone needed something to get by with.
Its OK if the pump talks to you, its when you start talking back we have to worry.....
Even though my bike is probably pissed at me I think its wanting to come home. It tired of its "time out" period in the corner of Randy's shop...
George
George, your original cap was returned the same day. It helped me identify my problem and fix my sealed (vapor locked) cap. Thanks.
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 10:31:31 PM
George, your original cap was returned the same day. It helped me identify my problem and fix my sealed (vapor locked) cap. Thanks.
That's no problem Mark. I knew everything was under control. I didn't even give it a second thought. Did you determine the problem?
George
Quote from: movenon on June 23, 2013, 05:26:04 AM
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 22, 2013, 10:31:31 PM
George, your original cap was returned the same day. It helped me identify my problem and fix my sealed (vapor locked) cap. Thanks.
That's no problem Mark. I knew everything was under control. I didn't even give it a second thought. Did you determine the problem?
George
Yes, the plastic housing holding the flapper valves was upside down, it is now completely out. No more fule delivery issues.
Mark I should be up in Fox Lake Tuesday for a couple of hours.I will be on the 86 that's for sale.Any way you could take it for a test ride.I could use a 2nd opinion on what its worth.No big deal just throwing it out there.
I used to be a machinist whats this Domex material ?.And what are you making stock length bones or adjustable bones ?.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on June 24, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
Mark I should be up in Fox Lake Tuesday for a couple of hours.I will be on the 86 that's for sale.Any way you could take it for a test ride.I could use a 2nd opinion on what its worth.No big deal just throwing it out there.
I used to be a machinist whats this Domex material ?.And what are you making stock length bones or adjustable bones ?.
http://www.ssab.com/Global/Domex/Datasheets/en/444_Domex%20100%20XF.pdf (http://www.ssab.com/Global/Domex/Datasheets/en/444_Domex%20100%20XF.pdf) Really tough stuff and you can bend it so it is not brittle. I plan to make fixed length bones, not likely stock length as my 86' is no longer stock in the rear. Once the lentgh is right, no need to fiddle with it. Thanks for the offer, but I am spending 100% of my time off with family. Otherwise I would be happy to help you and offer my opinion after riding it. Cheers mate...
No problem enjoy the family.
I am going to try and get the GP1200 and the trailer ready for the water so I plan on being busy too.
I can't wait until we can get some top quality Monkey Made parts. I am so in need. I am having a hell of a time lifting my bike on the center stand. Right now when on the center stand, the rear tire sits approximately at least 1 1/2 inches of the ground. That is a lot compared to my previous FJ 86. The sag is good and the shock is fine but the height definitely needs adjusting. Oh yeah, have a great trip Mark.
Mark
If you want adjustable ones you can try Soupy's
www.soupysperformance.com (http://www.soupysperformance.com)
They have they for Fjs.
Regards,
Jeff
Thanks for the tip but I already know about Soupy's dog bones. They are very expensive and I don't really need the adjustment. I want to get one size that is correct which I am pretty sure of the length I need then put them on and forget about them. I appreciate the input though.
Mark
No worries...good luck putting it together!
First off let me say I hope you had a great vacation Mark. I am actually writing this while I'm on vacation in Maine with the family. Didn't bring the bike unfortunately. So I was wondering if you had the time to do some mock ups for the dog bones. Can't wait to raise my bike.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: chocker on July 08, 2013, 12:59:11 PM
First off let me say I hope you had a great vacation Mark. I am actually writing this while I'm on vacation in Maine with the family. Didn't bring the bike unfortunately. So I was wondering if you had the time to do some mock ups for the dog bones. Can't wait to raise my bike.
Thanks,
Mark
My advise on dogbones is just get some Home Depot/Ace hardware/Lowe's etc flat bar and make your bones. I had to make 3 sets before I found the just right dimension for me and I still might lower my bike just a shade. Make cheap ones, ride and test then make some out of higher grade steel when you get it sorted out. A 1/4 hole to hole center makes a big difference in the rear height. With fixed bones each rider will probably want a different rear end height. I set mine a little high to accommodate box and bag loaded weight.
That's where the adjustable ones shine. But even if I was going to buy the adjustable ones I would get a fixed one set up that I liked then you would have a better idea of the adjustment range you would like to order.
It will also effect your steering.
George
I live in Montreal Quebec Canada and I've tried many different hardware stores and the thickest flat bar they had was 1/8 of an inch. Since I'm I'm Maine now I can look into the stores you mentioned.
Thanks,
Mark
Here is another thought for you, go down to your local spring shop, i.e. a shop the makes leaf springs for your car. They start out with flat bar that is obviously not arced yet. The material is in a condition that is called "half hard" so to speak it can be cut with a hack saw drilled in a drill press and worked they way you need it. Comes in variable thicknesses as you would expect it to, stands up to twist and flex that the FJ might produce. Used it on mine and works fine with no issues, sudden flex or bends to date, I can trust it to work the way it was intended. Just another thought.
Shaun
Quote from: chocker on July 08, 2013, 04:10:57 PM
I live in Montreal Quebec Canada and I've tried many different hardware stores and the thickest flat bar they had was 1/8 of an inch. Since I'm I'm Maine now I can look into the stores you mentioned.
Thanks,
Mark
I have found the flat bar at home depot. So that is taken care of. All I need now is the 12mm drill bit. Does anyone have any idea of where I can pick one up on the United States or Canada hopefully not online because I would want to get it as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Mark
12mm is only .028" smaller than 1/2".
Drill them 1/2" and you will be fine.
Randy - RPM
Thanks for the info Randy, I appreciate it. Would you happen to know what the torque setting is for the dog bone bolts?
I want to know what amount everyone has shortened their bones from stock is. I want to make some sets for my 86 to 89 conversion. Inches/MM anyone...????
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 11, 2013, 08:50:30 PM
I want to know what amount everyone has shortened their bones from stock is. I want to make some sets for my 86 to 89 conversion. Inches/MM anyone...????
I can't believe it, I went looking for my stock dog bones to give you their measurements and I can't find them.
I'll keep looking!
Leon
I have my '84 converted to '89 linkage.... Randy, can you measure my links for Mark?
Quote from: chocker on July 11, 2013, 08:41:28 PM
Thanks for the info Randy, I appreciate it. Would you happen to know what the torque setting is for the dog bone bolts?
I do not know the Yamaha torque spec, I recommend GnT since they seat against the inner bearings.
GnT = good-N-tight
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 11, 2013, 09:05:21 PM
I have my '84 converted to '89 linkage.... Randy, can you measure my links for Mark?
Sure, but does the different swing arm affect the dog bone length?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 11, 2013, 08:50:30 PM
I want to know what amount everyone has shortened their bones from stock is. I want to make some sets for my 86 to 89 conversion. Inches/MM anyone...????
From memory (always a dodgy source), when I had the OEM shock in my '91 I shortened the dogbones to 12.5cm (aka 125mm, 4.9x inches)
Arnie
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 11, 2013, 09:26:50 PM
Sure, but does the different swing arm affect the dog bone length?
Good catch...I forgot about that.... It might or might not...dunno.
Mark, you're gonna have to do it the old fashioned way...
Get your '89/90/91 relay arm installed, with your bike on the centerstand, shim the tire up to where you want it, then measure. I used 1/2 inch plywood under the tire for mine...
Comes with the territory of being the first modifier (first 84-87 to convert to dogbones with oem swing arm)
Cheers laddie. Pat
Grrrr, I have some OEM bones on my desk, but I am not ready to switch over to make an actual measurement. I am looking for something like -2 MM. -6MM etc... Or SAE -.125 and the like. I can make up a few sets to help the budget wise members....
Hey Mark. 91 FJ: stock dogbones c-c is 125mm. I shortened that length to 108mm. My rear tire (180 55 17 size) is just slightly clear of the ground when on the centerstand. This is as short as I could go without taking metal away from the linkage as the shock is just touching when on the centerstand, it clears when there is weight on it.
Hope this helps.
Derek
Quote from: Derek Young on July 12, 2013, 01:26:04 AM
Hey Mark. 91 FJ: stock dogbones c-c is 125mm. I shortened that length to 108mm. My rear tire (180 55 17 size) is just slightly clear of the ground when on the centerstand. This is as short as I could go without taking metal away from the linkage as the shock is just touching when on the centerstand, it clears when there is weight on it.
Hope this helps.
Derek
Yes Derek, that is a great starting point for me, thanks. I am going to double check the CC distance, 125mm seems long for the samples at my desk. I will let everyone know what I find.
Pats adjustable dog bones are 5 1/8"
Baldy's Stock dog bones 4 7/8"
Randy - RPM
Just throwing out a WAG. :shok: :shok:
Could the 91' and newer steel swing arms have a slightly different dog bone attach point, and that the stock 91' and newer dog bone length be different than the 89'/90' dog bone length???
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on July 12, 2013, 02:39:59 PM
Just throwing out a WAG. :shok: :shok:
Could the 91' and newer steel swing arms have a slightly different dog bone attach point, and that the stock 91' and newer dog bone length be different than the 89'/90' dog bone length???
Fred
This man is on to something... I have a stock set of bones marked 3CV and they have a C to C distance of 105mm (or 4.133in). I think my efforts all for naught... :cray: I need to fit up the new link and measure.... Thanks everyone....
Just wondering ,is it possible to use the early shock linkage, spaced out to fit onto the original swingarm linkage , like an 88/89 fz1 style arm, or will I just have to try , :biggrin:
Hi,
if anyone is interested, the torque setting for the dog bones is 47 ft/lbs. I have the 1/4 inch flat bar from Home depot and some other flat bar that a friend gave me which is just a little less thick. That may work better. I have the 1/2 inch drill bit but since I am pretty anal and it annoys me that there is 0.7 mm difference I am going to order a 12mm drill bit to be exact. So Mark (FJMonkey), how's it coming along?
Mark
15/32 drill bit works just fine. I have made at least 4 sets with no problems. While I have to say that H.D. steel is not the best, I have used used it. I just put it on my "watch / inspection" list. I have had no problems so far. I increased the width of bar to have more meat around the bolt holes which is where it would probably fail first. I think I used 1 1/4 inch wide bar. :good2:
George
Quote from: movenon on September 04, 2013, 07:03:23 PM
I increased the width of bar to have more meat around the bolt holes which is where it would probably fail first.
George
It may be overkill but I did the same. There is plenty of room down there.
These are mine which have been in service for about 50,000 km's, unpainted.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5442/9677188578_eeecfbe42b_c.jpg)
Noel
Noel, it's not over kill. The only ones that we have see pictures of that failed were around the bolt holes..
George
The bar I have is 1 inch wide. Would that be enough? That would leave approximately 1/4 steel on either side of the bolt hole. It's 1/4 thick.
Mark
Quote from: chocker on September 05, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
The bar I have is 1 inch wide. Would that be enough? That would leave approximately 1/4 steel on either side of the bolt hole. It's 1/4 thick.
Mark
Here is some reading on the subject. I can't tell you what is right or wrong.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.msg22472#msg22472 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.msg22472#msg22472)
Scroll down and look where these failed at.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2936.msg45856#msg45856 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2936.msg45856#msg45856)
I would go 1 1/4 wide and you can go a little longer on one end. IMO the more steel the better and radius all the corners.......
George
I started my dog bones modification.
I used stainless steel 5mm thick, very strong. Cut the bars and drill first hole was nightmare..... I don't even try to make those bars end round......
So just want to ask: Will be this material good for my FJ?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_22_01_15_6_55_29.jpeg)
I don't have an answer to the strength question but when you mount the bars you will probably have to radius or round off the corners as I remember.
George :good2:
Yes , steel is good ... you will have to round them off a bit so they will fit without interference . If you use a grinding wheel as the metal gets too hot to hold cool it down with oil not water . This will prevent weakening the metal.
With time the holes may become wallowed out after thousands of miles of use , so check them once a year at least as part of your annual maint.
Stainless dogbones will be slightly softer than steel ones but won't rust. I would watch the holes for wallowing out over time because it is softer. AS far as drilling you should buy some cobalt drill bits as steel bits get hot and dull extremely fast drilling stainless. When it gets hot cool off with water, won't weaken like steel. Just my 2 cents worth. I have drilled hundreds of stainless holes. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on January 22, 2015, 03:58:52 PM
Stainless dogbones will be slightly softer than steel ones but won't rust. I would watch the holes for wallowing out over time because it is softer. AS far as drilling you should buy some cobalt drill bits as steel bits get hot and dull extremely fast drilling stainless. When it gets hot cool off with water, won't weaken like steel. Just my 2 cents worth. I have drilled hundreds of stainless holes. Dave
Good point on the drill bits Dave. :good:
Yes with stainless steel, water can be used I just prefer oil. Very old habit of mine.
I have some personal experience with 304 and 304L SST as well as 1008 HRPO and 1018 CRS. 304 SST will behave much like any 1008 HRPO, but the SST will have more resistance in shear, not relevant if used for dog bones. The 1018 CRS is common bar stock and will be harder than HRPO and 304 SST. But not by large margins. When drilling or machining SST you want to go slow and hard. Don't break the chip as it does work harden and eats the tool. The bar stock is a better choice and easy to find for making dog bones. A little rust protection and the bar stock should work quite well for a set of bones...
for those that want something ready made finished,
Lust Racing in the UK have them at 98mm and 102mm centres with 12mm holes that should fit. I've ordered a pair.
I got a pair of Soupy's Hayabusa adjustables but the turnshackle is 19mm AF hex bar and fouls the bottom shock mount, plus the shortest they go without modifying is 125mm crs.
So I have a brand new unused pair if anyone wants some.
These arrived in the post today.....
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010045_zpsgp551yxf.jpg~original) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010045_zpsgp551yxf.jpg.html)
as did the largest downpour this year - it aint stopped since yesterday !
Looks professional.
But 102 mm is more than 20 mm less than original length (12,5Cm). You will need ladder to jump in on saddle :blum1:
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on January 27, 2015, 07:09:46 AM
Looks professional.
But 102 mm is more than 20 mm less than original length (12,5Cm). You will need ladder to jump in on saddle :blum1:
I have the Thunderace mod, plus an R6 front transplant so these are just what I need.