I have been burning time searching for some in depth answers or pics on how guys have installed the R1 front brake system on a FJ. Specifically a late model (93). I understand the callipers bolt directly on but I'm curious if I should be using the R1 stock brake lines (not stainless) that run a single line directly to the calliper or use my existing single stainless from the master to the splitter and then a single for each calliper. I do believe I did read that it was better to use the R1 master and I also found a picture showing how someone mounted the urine cup. Anyone know of any threads that would be of use or advice?
Quote from: Persistant on May 26, 2013, 12:50:29 PM
I have been burning time searching for some in depth answers or pics on how guys have installed the R1 front brake system on a FJ. Specifically a late model (93). I understand the callipers bolt directly on but I'm curious if I should be using the R1 stock brake lines (not stainless) that run a single line directly to the calliper or use my existing single stainless from the master to the splitter and then a single for each calliper. I do believe I did read that it was better to use the R1 master and I also found a picture showing how someone mounted the urine cup. Anyone know of any threads that would be of use or advice?
A question, I can see where upgrading the caliper's on early FJ's is an improvement but on the later FJ's is there really that much of an improvement ? They do look good I admit....
George
Persistant 93 is yours an ABS model? Front break line, most use two lines from master cylinder one going to caliper. The R1 calipers and master cylinder give better performance, other than smaller rotors you now have the same brakes as the early model R1. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Quote from: movenon on May 26, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
A question, I can see where upgrading the caliper's on early FJ's is an improvement but on the later FJ's is there really that much of an improvement ? They do look good I admit....
George
Yes, there is a noticeable improvement with replacing even the late model 2 piece calipers with the 1 piece monoblock R-1 calipers.
They are flat out more powerful, they absorb more force from the rotor without case deflection, and with the accompanying 14mm m/c the modulation is more precise.
True, the difference with the early FJ conversions is more dramatic, than the late model FJ's, but there is still no comparison between the oem calipers and the R-1 monoblocks. They are that good.
OK, I'll buy that ! :good2:. Now I just need to buy the rest ! :rofl2: :rofl2:
I thought my list was getting shorter,.......NOT..... :dash2: :drinks:
George
Quote from: movenon on May 26, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
OK, I'll buy that ! :good2:. Now I just need to buy the rest ! :rofl2: :rofl2:
I thought my list was getting shorter,.......NOT..... :dash2: :drinks:
George
Love the A-10 Warthog avatar George.....
Quote from: movenon on May 26, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
OK, I'll buy that ! :good2:. Now I just need to buy the rest ! :rofl2: :rofl2:
I thought my list was getting shorter,.......NOT..... :dash2: :drinks:
George
Is the A-10 a clue to your next mod? Did you pick up a surplus cannon? No wonder you were concerned about overloading the suspension. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Kurt
No but I have some empty shell's on the shelf from the sand box. :rofl2: They are impressive to see fire. They get a few of them together and orbit in what they call a "wheel" , one rolls in on a target and when he (or she) pulls out off the run the next one in rolling in, and then the next.... A continuous stream of depleted uranium bullets.
I can tell you this "if you know anybody that drives or operates in a tank, then for god's sake tell them to get another job"... These things don't miss and cut through a tank like its a peace of cheese.
On the FJ, yes its a bit over weight but she will do fine. Probably better than me :lol:. They are calling for a 60% of rain on Tuesday so that might slow me down a little but my plan is push through it. Wish you were going Kurt...
George
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 26, 2013, 01:37:38 PM
Persistant 93 is yours an ABS model? Front break line, most use two lines from master cylinder one going to caliper. The R1 calipers and master cylinder give better performance, other than smaller rotors you now have the same brakes as the early model R1. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Hi Kurt, No mine is not a ABS model. On mine there is a single brake line running to the steering head where a joint is located that has 2 single lines leaving it to each of the callipers.
Hi Andrew. The blue/gold spot calipers are very nice. Make sure you don't get the radial mount models though. The stock R1 brake lines will most likely be too short. Individual brake lines to each caliper gives less chance for leaks but stainless lines using the splitter work well also.
Derek
Quote from: movenon on May 26, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
A question, I can see where upgrading the caliper's on early FJ's is an improvement but on the later FJ's is there really that much of an improvement ? They do look good I admit....
George
No and yes.
No, there isn't much, if any, difference and yes, they look good.
I think many people here do the brake upgrade all at once. This makes it difficult to tell just what, made how much difference.
The advantages of monoblock over split calipers is true in theory but in the real world makes very little, if any difference. If there was any difference it would only be noticeable under extreme conditions, ones unlikely to be experienced with an FJ on the road.
If you had the 14mm adjustable M/C, braided SS lines (2 or 3 line setup, doesn't matter) and EBC HH pads with your stock late model calipers and then switched over to the R1 blue spots, I doubt you would find any difference.
Of all the components in the brake upgrade, the calipers themselves offer the least improvement.
They seem to have taken on a life of their own here as the magic bullet for better brakes, it is all the bits that go with them that make the improvement. (assuming you have late model calipers)
The EBC HH pads are a must. If you do the upgrade and don't use these you are getting nowhere near the best from your brakes.
Many will disagree with me on this but it is my experience from having done it one bit at a time, the calipers being the last item to install. I initially installed them with standard pads and found them worse than the old ones with the EBC pads.
Noel
Noel, that's what I am leading up to. I am not saying that that they are not any better, only that you might not gain to much in the real world with a newer FJ (if things are in good shape). If you were upgrading a newer FJ on a budget then that money might be better spent initially in another area. Just thowing out priority's and "bang for the buck". Now if the stock FJ front brakes are in bad condition it might not be worth while to dump money into them, blue spots do come up at inexpensive prices at times.
All that said I will probably install some blue/gold spots on my bike bike because I do need to get new pads (mine are crappy) and they do look good..... Besides why should Pat get all the chicks with his USD forks... Maybe some Blue spots will attract a few of his throw offs :rofl:
George
I think we look at brakes in the wrong way. What happens in that O SHIT moment, when you need to stop really fast. Just a few feet could mean the difference between, that was close or a ride in a red and white. I think brakes are a super important upgrade for this reason. Also remember my FJ was an ABS model and those brakes were a joke. Never worker well even when it was new. Just a different perspective for what it's worth.
Kurt
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 27, 2013, 09:14:55 AM
I think we look at brakes in the wrong way. What happens in that O SHIT moment, when you need to stop really fast. Just a few feet could mean the difference between, that was close or a ride in a red and white. I think brakes are a super important upgrade for this reason. Also remember my FJ was an ABS model and those brakes were a joke. Never worker well even when it was new. Just a different perspective for what it's worth.
Kurt
I keep forgetting about the ABS deal :hang1:. My brakes have some unknown pads in them from the PO and they are most likely cheap ones... They work OK for normal riding but I would definitely upgrade the pads to the HH's if I was an aggressive rider.
I do plan on new pads shortly so I am considering the blue spots because while its apart and I am dumping money into them its a good time to step it up a little with better looking units since the calipers don't seem to be that expensive. More work on the horizon...... When will it end ?? :dash2: :lol:
George
Quote from: movenon on May 27, 2013, 09:42:24 AM
They work OK for normal riding but I would definitely upgrade the pads to the HH's if I was an aggressive rider.
George
George, good brakes are not a performance accessory, they're a safety item.
The time you are most likely to need maximum braking is to avoid an accident, not braking late into a corner at speed.
Also, all HH pads are not created equal as some of the members have posted previously.
Noel
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 27, 2013, 09:14:55 AM
I think we look at brakes in the wrong way. What happens in that O SHIT moment, when you need to stop really fast. Just a few feet could mean the difference between, that was close or a ride in a red and white. I think brakes are a super important upgrade for this reason. Also remember my FJ was an ABS model and those brakes were a joke. Never worker well even when it was new. Just a different perspective for what it's worth.
Kurt
I agree entirely but the difference in those few feet is never going to be whether you run monoblocks or split calipers.
Hell, I could lock my front wheel in the dry with standard everything and EBC HH pads with just two fingers. I had to pull harder and they certainly didn't have the same feel to them, but they worked.
Everyone that didn't learn to ride on a late model ABS equipped bike, has to fight the fear of a front wheel lock up, even in an emergency. This is why I practice it often so that in an emergency I hope it will be instinct to use maximum braking.
The Govt. accident stats suggest that 80% of motorcyclists that run into something could have stopped before impact had they used their brakes at their maximum efficiency, in many cases way before. ABS bikes are on the road in sufficient numbers now to confirm this trend.
I reckon a lot of riders would be amazed at just how fast their bikes are capable of stopping.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on May 27, 2013, 09:55:27 AM
Quote from: movenon on May 27, 2013, 09:42:24 AM
They work OK for normal riding but I would definitely upgrade the pads to the HH's if I was an aggressive rider.
George
George, good brakes are not a performance accessory, they're a safety item.
The time you are most likely to need maximum braking is to avoid an accident, not braking late into a corner at speed.
Also, all HH pads are not created equal as some of the members have posted previously.
Noel
TNX Noel I will do some reading when I get back from the rally. I will just have to ride accordingly until they are up to snuff. Well, they work, just not as good as I know they should. By the time I get next two or 3 mod's done it will be time for Colorado......
George
I upgraded the front brakes on my '92 in March 2012.
Original Calipers
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/551548_10150607212506615_559112351_n.jpg)
New (to me) Calipers
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524269_10150607204386615_2146530771_n.jpg)
Brake Lever and Urine Cup Reservoir
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306124_10150607204611615_996894169_n.jpg)
The "new" calipers and front lever/master assembly were from an R6 but I believe it is the same as the R1. I had to get a longer brake line that ran from the Y connector at near the triple tree to the master cylinder.
The upgrade made a HUGE difference in braking. Well worth it!
Zwartie
A little known fact.....
The FZR600 from about 1994 to around 2000 use the same callipers as the R1 bluespots - I assume the master cylinder will be similar.
The only difference I noted in using FZR as opposed to R1 sourced items is about £40.
This question is most likely obvious to you guys but it's unclear to me, if and when you upgrade your M/C to a 14mm and decide to add SS braided lines are the brake lines coming from a stock newer model bike or do you have to have something custom made up? Also, there is so much info on this topic it can sometimes get confusing, it would be really useful if someone could just say which 14mm M/C is the best choice when upgrading, recognizing there may be pros and cons to various options.
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Ben,
Could you send a pic of how you mounted the urine cup? We just mounted one (from '97 YZF600 TC) on my son's 92, but I have to admit it looks pretty crude.
Noticable improvement over the old M/C....really likes the adjustable lever. He is running braided lines and original calipers.
Thanks Jeff
PS how is the trip plan coming?
Jeff,
I'll take a couple pics and post them tonight. As far as the trip is concerned, everything seems to be coming together nicely. Not sure the exact date that we will be in the Calgary area but I think I may take you up on your offer. I will post pics on this site as we go along on the trip and will be sure to keep in touch.
Zwartie
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 30, 2013, 01:12:39 PM
Hi Ben,
Could you send a pic of how you mounted the urine cup? We just mounted one (from '97 YZF600 TC) on my son's 92, but I have to admit it looks pretty crude.
Noticable improvement over the old M/C....really likes the adjustable lever. He is running braided lines and original calipers.
Thanks Jeff
PS how is the trip plan coming?
I have tried just about every combination of mastercylinders and calipers on my Yamahas and the R1 Sumotomo monoblocks with fresh stock G-G pads and either a Nissin in line 14mm master or a Nissin 19mm radial master are much better then the stock 4 pots on my 89 FJ, my 96 YZF600, and my wife's 92 TDM.
The key to getting the best results for me has been glass bead blasting the rotors. The friction surfaces of the rotors get contaminated with pad material as they are used so every time I replace the pads, I also remove the rotors and give them a blast. Some of my road race friends do this every race weekend. This cleaning is very important if you are changing pad materials, like going from the stock Sumotomo G-G pads to EBC H-H pads. If you try a set of the R1 monoblocks please take the time and bead blast your rotors. I have the R1 monoblocks on 11 of our motorcycles, they are very good calipers.
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 30, 2013, 01:12:39 PM
Hi Ben,
Could you send a pic of how you mounted the urine cup? We just mounted one (from '97 YZF600 TC) on my son's 92, but I have to admit it looks pretty crude.
Noticable improvement over the old M/C....really likes the adjustable lever. He is running braided lines and original calipers. Check out the monkey made parts post,he made some cool urine cup mounts out of stainless steel,,
Thanks Jeff
PS how is the trip plan coming?
Here are a few pictures of the urine cup mount:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/931189_10151411647211615_1593719503_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/942467_10151411647241615_242401802_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/933899_10151411647261615_1377918258_n.jpg)
If you want to know where I got the mounting bracket, it was at a specialty shop...Canadian Tire! I went to the shelving hardware aisle and picked up an L bracket, painted it black and there you go!
Zwartie
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 30, 2013, 01:12:39 PM
Hi Ben,
Could you send a pic of how you mounted the urine cup? We just mounted one (from '97 YZF600 TC) on my son's 92, but I have to admit it looks pretty crude.
Noticable improvement over the old M/C....really likes the adjustable lever. He is running braided lines and original calipers.
Thanks Jeff
PS how is the trip plan coming?
Another option is to use a 2004 FZ6 M/C and avoid the urine cup all together and mount it normally.
You still get the adjustable lever.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/2004FZ6MC_zpsf5e25f3c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/1tinindian/media/2004FZ6MC_zpsf5e25f3c.jpg.html)
Leon
Leon,
Is that FZ6 master a 14mm? Anything unusual about the brake lite switch?
Thanks,
CraigO
Quote from: craigo on May 30, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
Leon,
Is that FZ6 master a 14mm? Anything unusual about the brake lite switch?
Thanks,
CraigO
I believe it is, and the switch wiring is pretty straight forward.
Leon
IMO the SS brake lines make the biggest difference, but the pads AND the calipers certainly add to the improvement.
I rode Ribbert's bike and was very impressed with how well it stopped with the OEM 4pot calipers.
His was the best stopping OEM braked FJ I've ridden.
It may be the EBC HH pads he used or the magic spell he recited, but they did work very well.
(Almost as well as my blue-spot brakes with OEM Yamaha pads).
We both had SS brake lines on our bikes at the time.
Ribbert has now changed to blue-spot calipers and says the further improvement is minimal.
When I wear out these pads, I'll give the EBC HH pads a try and see what I find is the difference.
Arnie
Arnie, you are correct, when I fitted the blue spots I expected a big difference but that didn't come till I purchased a set of EBC HH pads, now my brakes are magic (with EBC rotors). I also have braided brake lines. My master cylinder is from a ZZR1100 kawasaki (as is my clutch master cylinder)