FJowners.com

General Category => Maintenance => Topic started by: crzyjarmans on April 11, 2013, 04:38:36 PM

Title: oil level
Post by: crzyjarmans on April 11, 2013, 04:38:36 PM
This may be a  :crazy: question, But here goes, is The oil level in the sight glass to be at the top of the sight glass?, Is this correct?
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: aviationfred on April 11, 2013, 04:51:09 PM
There is a little raised line molded into the clutch cover at the site glass. That is the full indicator mark. Oil at that level will leave a slight bit of glass not covered by oil.

Fred
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: crzyjarmans on April 11, 2013, 05:12:05 PM
Thanks so much, didn't see the line, will look closer
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: flips on April 11, 2013, 05:15:21 PM
Hi crzyjarmans  :hi:

According to the owners manual.....

A.Place motorcycle on centrestand (on a level surface) and warm up the engine for several minutes.
B.With the engine stopped check the oil level through the sight glass window (after allowing oil to settle for a few minutes)
C.The engine oil should be between the maximum & minimum marks.


On the sight glass there are two small marks adjacent to the window about 3/4 of the way up towards the top of the glass.This would be the indication for maximum oil level.The lower level is a line just below the bottom of the glass.

Owners/service manuals can be found for download here.....(has pictures  :yes:)

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=34.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=34.0)

Hope this helps.

Cheers :drinks:

Jeff P
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: fj11.5 on April 11, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
but if you put in enough oil to cover the window, the oil light dousnt come on as much under hard exceleration
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 11, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
With bike on centerstand, fill with oil until it just fills the window. 
Start the motor and run for about a minute to fill the oil filter.
Shut the motor off and place the bike on the side stand for about 5 minutes to allow excess oil in the top end to drain to the sump.
Back on the centerstand to top off and just fill to the top of the window.

If you top off without ever taking the bike off the centerstand to let the top end drain, you'll overfill it.

DavidR.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: 1tinindian on April 11, 2013, 10:18:38 PM
With the RPM oil filter spin adapter, and larger than stock filter, I put a full 4 quarts of oil in the motor and it is just above the sight glass.
This also helps keep that pesky "Oil Level" light off during spirited rides.

Leon
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: crzyjarmans on April 11, 2013, 11:55:52 PM
Thanks to all for the help :good2:, Found the marks that show the oil level, I noticed the oil light flicker for a second while on the freeway, will try adding just a bit, to see if this helps, I've also been thinking of switching to the spin on filter adapter, seems to get great reviews, thanks again for all the help
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 12, 2013, 06:50:46 AM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 11, 2013, 07:39:46 PM

Shut the motor off and place the bike on the side stand for about 5 minutes to allow excess oil in the top end to drain to the sump.

DavidR.

How does this help the oil drain from the head?

Noel
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 12, 2013, 06:57:31 AM
Quote from: crzyjarmans on April 11, 2013, 11:55:52 PM

...noticed the oil light flicker for a second while on the freeway...


This made me panic once or twice, out on long rides. Top the oil up and you should be fine.

Verify that your valve cover gasket and bolt seals aren't leaking. I discovered that some of mine were when I took the tank off.

Steve

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 12, 2013, 10:18:02 AM
Noel,
I "think" it helps the oil pools around the cams to drain back.

All I know for sure is the following sequence:
I fill the oil on the centerstand and leave some of the window uncovered,
Start it up and fill the filter then stop motor,
Top off the oil level, still leaving some of the window uncovered,
Go for a short ride,
Let bike sit on sidestand for a few minutes then place on centerstand,
Oil level is now completely covering the window.

I just assumed the additional oil was coming from the top end, but it could be from somewhere else (oil cooler, filter housing???).  But, I do know if I fill it on the centerstand, it will be overfull after a ride.

So, I add oil, run motor (to fill filter), top off, run motor again, place on sidestand, then back to centerstand and fill to final level to avoid overfilling.

DavidR.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Dan Filetti on April 12, 2013, 10:58:44 AM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 12, 2013, 10:18:02 AM

 But, I do know if I fill it on the centerstand, it will be overfull after a ride.

So, I add oil, run motor (to fill filter), top off, run motor again, place on sidestand, then back to centerstand and fill to final level to avoid overfilling.

DavidR.

I am so glad you posted this little nugget.  I have seen exactly this sequence of events on my Gixxer.  I thought I was crazy or had been more careless than I thought I was capable with this.

Thanks David!

Dan 
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 12, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
You're welcome Dan.

I expected to hear something from you during this discussion.
Although I have to admit I was expecting a comment on the OCD nature of the process rather than a thank you.  :-)

DavidR.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 12, 2013, 08:05:41 PM
David, the sequence you describe I believe has more to do with the short ride than sitting on the sidestand.

The ride is warming the oil which means more of it will fall back to the sump giving a higher level.

I don't think the head retains enough oil to affect the level and not sure how being on the sidestand facilitates its draining.  Starting a motor ( to fill the filter ) with fresh cold oil then turning it off is going to leave oil at its thickest all around the motor rather than falling to the sump, giving a low reading.

Any way you look at the FJ design is pretty forgiving however you check the levels with not much risk of serious overfilling, unlike some other engine designs.

Noel
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
I glanced through my records tonight.  I've done over 60 oil changes on my FJs.  I already admitted that I don't know where the oil comes from, but I sure as fuck know that if you top it off on the centerstand it will be over filled.

Talk to me when you've done that many oil changes.

DavidR.

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 01:49:00 AM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
I glanced through my records tonight.  I've done over 60 oil changes on my FJs.  I already admitted that I don't know where the oil comes from, but I sure as fuck know that if you top it off on the centerstand it will be over filled.

Talk to me when you've done that many oil changes.

DavidR.



David, it's probably unfortunate you picked me to say that to.

I generally don't qualify any of my views or suggestions with this, but I'm a formally trained mechanic on bikes and cars. 4 years of trade school and many post apprenticeship courses and certificates and many years experience.
I have probably done 600 or 6000 oil changes, who knows, I never kept records. I think that entitles me to at least an opinion on how oil behaves.

My response to your post (and most others) was specifically worded in such a way as to not sound opinionated and I rarely mention my mechanical credentials for the same reason.

You said you didn't know where the oil was coming from, I suggested a possibility.

If it didn't come across as simply suggesting there may be another reason for what you're seeing, then I failed.

Noel

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 02:11:44 AM
Well Noel,
I think I have a pretty good "opinion" on how oil behaves in an FJ oil change given my 28 years of experience with it. As I said, it might not come from the top end, that was just a guess. 

From what I've observed numerous times is that if you fill the oil exclusively on the centerstand, it will be overfilled.  I don't give a shit why or how it is such, or where it comes from, or how it happens , it's just an observation I've made over 28 years of maintenance on my Fjs.

If you don't believe it then do it your own way.  I'm just trying to pass on my experience to others.  If you have a differing "opinion" or "experience", then by all means please share it.

DavidR.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 05:52:27 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)



I think I've thrown a bit too much wood on my corner of the campfire.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: baldy3853 on April 13, 2013, 05:57:21 AM
Quote from: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 05:52:27 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)



I think I've thrown a bit too much wood on my corner of the campfire.
:rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: The General on April 13, 2013, 06:34:19 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)
Well, what I learned is, if there is a bubble at tha top of my oil indicator window when I get up in tha morn. (and I `ve left it on tha centrestand overnight without first putting it on the sidestand for five minutes) It is overfilled. However if I did tha sidestand bit and there is a similar small bubble in tha morn it is underfilled...depending wether ya downunder and over it or not.   :rofl2:
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: FJSpringy on April 13, 2013, 07:48:32 AM
Quote from: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 05:52:27 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)



I think I've thrown a bit too much wood on my corner of the campfire.

I wouldn't worry Noel after all we are talking oil not petrol  :drinks:
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Dan Filetti on April 13, 2013, 08:03:10 AM
I have no idea where the oil is coming from, but I have seen the behavior David is talking about -on a different bike even.  As I said, I was relieved to read it. Vexingly, on more than one occasion, I'm ashamed to admit, I've actually had to siphon off a bit of oil that I somehow overfilled, despite watching carefully.  Without knowing why, I will certainly try David's method next time. 

Noel, your experience and input is welcome and appreciated, from where I sit.

Dan 
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Dan Filetti on April 13, 2013, 08:08:15 AM
Quote from: The General on April 13, 2013, 06:34:19 AM
...depending wether ya downunder and over it or not. 

I'm reasonably certain the coriolis effect has nothing to do with this -let's not get crazy now...

Dan
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 08:37:48 AM
Quote from: The General on April 13, 2013, 06:34:19 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 05:23:47 AM

So, is this "joyful" banter one of the reasons that the subject of "oil" is taboo on the forum?

(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)
Well, what I learned is, if there is a bubble at tha top of my oil indicator window when I get up in tha morn. (and I `ve left it on tha centrestand overnight without first putting it on the sidestand for five minutes) It is overfilled. However if I did tha sidestand bit and there is a similar small bubble in tha morn it is underfilled...depending wether ya downunder and over it or not.   :rofl2:

But the question remains, does synthetic oil overfill at the same rate as dino oil? Does the viscosity matter? Will my clutch slip? Does the oil drain from the head clock-wise, or counter-clock-wise? What of the oil in the cooler? Can we (somehow) blame Randy's spin-on filter mod and SUE???

Just kidding on the last one.

I'll bet Randy's upgraded oil cooler drains clock-wise, but only with a dino-synthetic blend (and a dash of Sea-Foam)!

:wacko3:

Me head's spinnin'!

Steve

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: crzyjarmans on April 13, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
I didn't mean to start a "OIL WAR" :flag_of_truce:, Just new to this type of bike, and didn't see the marks on the sight glass, Guess my eyes are not what they use to be, I always appreciate all comments and advise anyone shares, thanks to all for suggestion on doing the oil service
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 09:19:36 AM
Quote from: crzyjarmans on April 13, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
I didn't mean to start a "OIL WAR" :flag_of_truce:, Just new to this type of bike, and didn't see the marks on the sight glass, Guess my eyes are not what they use to be, I always appreciate all comments and advise anyone shares, thanks to all for suggestion on doing the oil service

Sawn, you didn't start anything, it's always brewing just under the surface. I suspect when things get a little dull around here some people say the --- word just to liven things up.

Dan, you are a true diplomat.

To the rest of you, glad to have provided some material for the closet comedians to work with.

Noel
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 13, 2013, 09:33:57 AM
Quote from: ribbert on April 13, 2013, 09:19:36 AM

...glad to have provided some material for the closet comedians to work with.


Oh, WHATEVER!  <rolls eyes>

On a serious note, I check and fill mine consistently while on the center stand. I'll top it up (after a warm-up) just before a long ride, and check it the next day, after sitting all night on the center stand. Haven't had the oil light come on in a very long time. As long as the oil level doesn't go near the bottom line, I sleep easy.

Better to have oil in the engine, than to have none.  :yes:

Steve

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
The oil light comes on under hard acceleration, ignore it. It isn't a pressure light it's a level light and it's down to surge and the lack of any substantial baffles in the sump.

All that rigmarole about going for rides and such in nonsense. All that does is give the oil a greater volume as it emulsifies slightly when hot. That will give you a false reading.

Replace the filter, fill with oil to the middle of the sight glass start your bike, run it for about a minute don't rev it you don't need to a good FJ engine is running at full oil pressure near enough straight away.

Switch it off, go for a cuppa, and a smoke if you're so inclined or a biccie.

Come back, check the level on the main stand, top up to just below the top level line.

Bloody simple..........
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: rktmanfj on April 13, 2013, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM

All that does is give the oil a greater volume as it emulsifies slightly when hot.


:scratch_one-s_head:     Do tell.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
All that rigmarole about going for rides and such is nonsense.

All I was trying to do was explain my technique for not overfilling the oil level.  If you don't like it then don't do it.

I won't make the mistake of sharing anything else.

DavidR.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: fj11.5 on April 13, 2013, 06:42:17 PM
whatever works for checking the level is fine by me,, i used to have a 1980 gsx 750 ,, had a majic sight  window  :i_am_so_happy: oil  wouldnt show in the glass no matter how much it had in it ,i even changed clutch covers , made  no difference ,, had to check the level with a thin strip of stainless wire , just did an oil change ,warmed her up and filled as per  the manual , marked it on the wire and went  off that , , then after havin her 7 years one day the oil showed  in the window , , that bike  had the weirdest habits
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: The General on April 13, 2013, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: crzyjarmans on April 13, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
I didn't mean to start a "OIL WAR" :flag_of_truce:, Just new to this type of bike, and didn't see the marks on the sight glass, Guess my eyes are not what they use to be, I always appreciate all comments and advise anyone shares, thanks to all for suggestion on doing the oil service
Luv`n ya more everyday Shawn.  :drinks: I had a similar prob about a month ago with FJ1. Wasn`t till I put on my glasses and used a magnifying glass before I found the problem....I had prettied up the beast for the Rally tha week before and the oil glass was the only spot I had left on some masking tape...Oil seemed a nice shiney black colour but no bubble on tha sidestand...according ta Google it`s called tha rattlecanaholic effect!
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: rktmanfj on April 13, 2013, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
All that rigmarole about going for rides and such is nonsense.

All I was trying to do was explain my technique for not overfilling the oil level.  If you don't like it then don't do it.

I won't make the mistake of sharing anything else.

DavidR.

Eh, come on David.

I still want petem explain this 'emulsification' that occurs...      (popcorn)

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 11:30:55 PM
You Know, Randy, this thread is a good example of what I really hate about this forum.

I try to post what is potentially useful information (notice I said potentially).  Stuff that I've learned over the years that might help someone who is new to the FJ.

So I post.  I happen to throw out an (admitably questionable) assumption and it is immediately refuted.  Okay, my bad, I was just guessing anyway.  That obscure point had nothing to do with the information I was trying to relate; however, it did provide an opportunity for someone to grab onto and let everyone know how smart they are.  So now, let's run this trivial informational piece of crap into the ground which adds no value to the original topic but let's us continue to spout smart stuff.

Then someone wants to be funny.  It was never an oil thread, but please feel free to chime in with absolutely NOTHING useful and run the thread off-topic.

Yeah, but everyone likes to laugh.  In the meantime, useful information gets totally obscured by the noise from people that obviously have nothing better to do.  I don't really need to be here.  I think I've contributed far more than I've taken from this forum.  I've got better things to do with my time.

Thank you Dan for actually reading and COMPREHENDING the post and getting some value out of it.

There, I'm sure this is going to make me some new friends but I'm getting very tired of sorting through the chaff.

DavidR.

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 14, 2013, 01:12:54 AM
David, I offer two types of advice here, my opinion and what I know to be fact. My opinion is just that but I have on many occasions had the latter summarily dismissed in favour of advice from someone else who has no idea what they are talking about. Big deal, I offered, it wasn't taken, I tried. move on.

Unlike you, I have been on the receiving end of some particularly nasty and unwarranted sarcasm when trying to help.



"it did provide an opportunity for someone to grab onto and let everyone know how smart they are"
was merely an ill advised kneejerk response to your taunt of "talk to me when you've done over 60 oil changes"

The forum is more than just an exchange of technical information and hijacked threads are a bit of fun and still interesting and when they cease to be so will die a natural death. You have just done it yourself, turning an oil level post into what you hate about the forum post.

David, you are one of a core of regular contributors from long before I was here and I would be first in line to acknowledge your contribution.

Lighten up a bit.

You will always be my hero ( I think "All hail DavidR" was the phrase I used) for the discovering and sharing the single biggest improvement I have made to my bike, the engine mount fix.
Not something that even a smart bloke like me would likely have found by himself.

Noel
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 14, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
Noel, FYI, David is also the originator of the stainless steel cap screw and o ring kit for our carbs.

RPM now sells the kit, but David first put them together. Before RPM Randy joined our forum, David's efforts with these kits singlehandedly kept dozens of FJ's on the road. Dozens.

David will always be affectionately known as our FJ carb guru. His articles (see the Files) on carb cleaning and diagnostics removed the fear many of us had on working on our carbs. The voodoo mechanics of CV carbs is easily understood when he explains it....He has been indispensable to us.

David is a engineer by profession, and thus meticulous (just look at his bikes) so he does not like posts with a high 'signal to noise ratio'. He suffers no fools.


Title: Re: oil level
Post by: baldy3853 on April 14, 2013, 02:56:27 AM

You will always be my hero ( I think "All hail DavidR" was the phrase I used) for the discovering and sharing the single biggest improvement I have made to my bike, the engine mount fix.


Noel
I like the way you have answered this post I have a lot of time for David he was and is someone who has contributed heaps to this and the previous Yahoo forum but to say that David was the discoverer of the engine mount fix is incorrect, that is something I will lay claim to as it was something I posted on the old forum 8yrs ago, David took it to the next level and was the one who developed the bolt and spacer means of getting it out.

Sorry for taking this away from the main topic, I also experimented with using Nolethene as replacement bushes for the one that go in the engine mounts

Baldy
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Alf on April 14, 2013, 03:52:15 AM
Maybe my english is not very good, so I don´t understand the discussion: both of you, Noel and DavidR, have added your experience and feelings, and your opinions are very valuable. So where is it the problem?

DavidR and me have a pending issue with 16 & 17 rims. One day we will ride side to side (or face to face)... maybe in OK Corral?  :blum1:

From my experience the fact is that following the Yamaha manual about oil level measurement you overfill the crankcase and the excess go directly to the air filter.

So I watch the oil level with cool engine, tooped to the window mark. And better with the centerstand off and me with both feet in the ground, and a friend watching the level. In my summer travels, (i.e. with a friend of mine last year with another FJ and covering 500 to 700 km each day for 12 days), we didin´t added a drop of oil

So you can start to shot me if you like
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: flips on April 14, 2013, 04:13:58 AM
This is what I love about this forum!.The ultimate digital campfire.A question is asked....answers are given from differing aspects/opininions/backgrounds/expertise etc and solutions are provided.I try to offer answers if I feel I have sufficient knowledge that can be of help,often to find that I am just plain wrong or have come to the wrong conclusions based on the limited knowledge of my own experience.I appreciate all opininons and advice given on this site by everyone even if it contradicts my own or I disagree.It gives me perspective and helps me to learn so thanks everyone!  :good2:.At the end of the day we will all keep our own council but I always appreciate diverse input.

Cheers  :drinks:

Jeff P   
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: baldy3853 on April 14, 2013, 04:58:34 AM
Bravo Jeff well said  (popcorn) :good:
Baldy
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: ribbert on April 14, 2013, 06:53:15 AM
All hail DavidR AND Baldy


My final word on the subject.

Noel
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Arnie on April 14, 2013, 09:01:52 AM
The 'problem', as I see it, is not the range of information or even opinions provided here.  Rather, it is the number of folks with little of no knowledge who feel that they must "contribute" to the discussion.
This can take a number of forms.  Some refute facts with no theory or experience, some try and add humor (or humour) to a serious technical discussion, and some just try and show off how witty they can be.
The problem that then develops is that with 3,000 members some don't feel they can contribute or they'll be attacked, and others feel that they have to put their 2 cents in on everything.
All of this makes for a time commitment to read the list each day that is excessive for many.
I doubt many will be upset at a serious discussion with differing opinions. 
I expect most will be less than amused when it becomes needless pedantic nit-picking.
I don't read all the topics, and I log in most every day and it does take a fair amount of time (and I'm retired so have more free time than most)
Still, I read a topic and generally ask myself if I have anything of value to add to the discussion.  If not, I will rarely post a comment.  And, if the information has already been posted, there's no need to be a cheer squad.  I also try to stay out of arguments, I state my point and leave it there.
I would expect that one of the most difficult decisions a newby with limited technical knowledge has is deciding which of the posters actually knows what they are talking about.

Arnie

 
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Thmsdoyle on April 14, 2013, 09:25:34 AM
Well stated Arnie
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Zwartie on April 14, 2013, 09:41:01 AM
Fellas,

I've been watching this thread as a bystander and when I first read Noel's post I thought it was pretty benign and in no way offensive. That's the beauty of the written word, it is up to the reader to determine what the author's intent and tone was. I think the same words could have been exchanged in person and everything would have been fine. When David dropped an F-bomb in the response it was easy to see he was pissed. From there we got to, well, where we are now. In the past I have been the pisser-offer and the pissed-offie in email exchanges. Again, it's usually been a misunderstanding of the intended tone. I respect both points of view on this topic. In my 30 years of riding I've never put the bike back on the side stand after running it for a few minutes and then back on the centre (or center) stand to recheck the level. I've never had a fellow motorcyclist or mechanic ever tell me to do it that way either. I've been a CSC certified motorcycle riding instructor for 12 years and we always tell new riders to check the oil level with the bike on the centre stand or in the upright position. We also tell them to check the owner's manual. That being said, out of sheer curiosity I will actually try David's method the next time I check the level to see if it makes a difference. Of course my problem is that I have no centre stand on this FJ because the FZR swing-arm and linkage won't allow it. It also doesn't allow me to install the new-to-me stock mufflers either, but that's another thread (See Alaska 2013). No worries, I have a rear swing-arm stand. To keep my post in perspective, just remember that I'm the nut job who uses a plastic bottle with a hole in the side for the crankcase breather so don't listen to me!

David & Noel, I respect both your opinions and your contributions to this forum and hope we can get through this rough spot.

Zwartie
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Derek Young on April 14, 2013, 10:21:28 AM
When I have a problem with my FJ and ask a technical question, there is a very short list of people I am looking to for answers.  You are at or near the top of that list David.  Thank you for your contributions.
I hope that doesn't change. 

Derek
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 14, 2013, 01:37:53 PM

Shawn,
The evolution of this thread is an example as to WHY we don't bring up the "O_L" subject.

It's like pissing on the campfire!

Steve

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: movenon on April 14, 2013, 03:23:06 PM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 14, 2013, 01:37:53 PM

Shawn,
The evolution of this thread is an example as to WHY we don't bring up the "O_L" subject.

It's like pissing on the campfire!

Steve



:good2: :good2:  (popcorn)
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: fintip on April 14, 2013, 03:36:38 PM
QuoteThe 'problem', as I see it, is not the range of information or even opinions provided here.  Rather, it is the number of folks with little of no knowledge who feel that they must "contribute" to the discussion.
This can take a number of forms.  Some refute facts with no theory or experience, some try and add humor (or humour) to a serious technical discussion, and some just try and show off how witty they can be.
The problem that then develops is that with 3,000 members some don't feel they can contribute or they'll be attacked, and others feel that they have to put their 2 cents in on everything.
All of this makes for a time commitment to read the list each day that is excessive for many.
I doubt many will be upset at a serious discussion with differing opinions.
I expect most will be less than amused when it becomes needless pedantic nit-picking.
I don't read all the topics, and I log in most every day and it does take a fair amount of time (and I'm retired so have more free time than most)
Still, I read a topic and generally ask myself if I have anything of value to add to the discussion.  If not, I will rarely post a comment.  And, if the information has already been posted, there's no need to be a cheer squad.  I also try to stay out of arguments, I state my point and leave it there.
I would expect that one of the most difficult decisions a newby with limited technical knowledge has is deciding which of the posters actually knows what they are talking about.

Arnie

+1

I know if I were David, I'd be more annoyed that everyone want to play the role of moderator right now.

Noel, David, Pat and Arnie (among others) are all at the top of my list. I think they all know that, and don't need us cheerleading them--everyone's different, but the idea that someone would think I need their pat on the back if I were in their position would probably annoy the piss out of me.

And I think if I were a moderator, I'd probably lock this thread, because there isn't anything of value really left to be said.

I've never had problems with my oil level, but if I ever do, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be using the search feature to find this thread.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: pete m on April 14, 2013, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
All that rigmarole about going for rides and such is nonsense.

All I was trying to do was explain my technique for not overfilling the oil level.  If you don't like it then don't do it.

I won't make the mistake of sharing anything else.

DavidR.

Steady on there Pal, I didn't mean to cause offence there, It's just my opinion and It's something I've never needed to do in 150,000 miles with FJs.

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: pete m on April 14, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
Quote from: not a lib on April 13, 2013, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 13, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: pete m on April 13, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
All that rigmarole about going for rides and such is nonsense.

All I was trying to do was explain my technique for not overfilling the oil level.  If you don't like it then don't do it.

I won't make the mistake of sharing anything else.

DavidR.

Eh, come on David.

I still want petem explain this 'emulsification' that occurs...      (popcorn)

Your getting one (explanation) now, I'm a polymer engineer, that's how I make my living. Through rapid intermediate heating, shear, abrasion, compression and stretching the polymer chains become highly ductile and as no crank case is totally 100% air tight as it has to breathe, emulsification takes place (air and water vapour get in between the polymer chains)increasing the volume of the liquid only slightly but it does occur.

I do apologise as I didn't explain my self correctly in the previous thread, when I mean the oil gets hot I mean after running the engine for perhaps five minutes.

If you were going to go for a ride I'd suggest a good 100 miler!

Seems to me that anyone new on here airing an opinion is not a welcome thing????  


Title: Re: oil level
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 14, 2013, 05:36:13 PM
Pete don't let this get to you. Give it some time, let people get to know you. There are a lot of new members that think they know everything about motorcycles and Yamaha FJs. Then find out how little they really know. Hope this explanation helps. Someone with your knowledge could make great contributions.

Kurt     
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: pete m on April 14, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on April 14, 2013, 05:36:13 PM
Pete don't let this get to you. Give it some time, let people get to know you. There are a lot of new members that think they know everything about motorcycles and Yamaha FJs. Then find out how little they really know. Hope this explanation helps. Someone with your knowledge could make great contributions.

Kurt     

Cheers Kurt, admittedly I can be a little abrupt at times, I don't mean anything by it at all, It's just the way I am. I've been around FJs in one form or another for nearly 30 years I don't profess to know everything myself but I am a quick learner!

Again, thanks Kurt.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 30, 2013, 06:34:42 PM

I hate to touch this thread again, but I'd like to address an issue that I discovered while adjusting my valves, that supports SlowOldGuy's method of filling the oil to the proper level.

Earlier this afternoon, I removed the valve cover on my 1992 FJ to expose the camshaft and valve shims. The area I needed to work in was surrounded by puddles of oil.

I rarely use my side stand, and prefer to store the bike on the center stand.

There was so much oil in my way, I couldn't easily remove the shims, as they were UNDER the puddle of oil!

Reluctantly, I replaced the valve cover, fuel tank, and seat so I could take the bike OFF THE CENTER STAND, and let it rest on the side stand so the excess oil could drain back into the sump.

Needless to say, I got distracted by another task (rotating tires on my car), and it's now raining. Grrr...

Anyway, I am now a believer in the process that DavidR (SlowOldGuy) discussed earlier in this thread. I'm man enough to admit to being humbled by someone who knows far more than I do.

Steve

Title: Re: oil level
Post by: oldktmdude on May 02, 2013, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 30, 2013, 06:34:42 PM

I hate to touch this thread again, but I'd like to address an issue that I discovered while adjusting my valves, that supports SlowOldGuy's method of filling the oil to the proper level.

Earlier this afternoon, I removed the valve cover on my 1992 FJ to expose the camshaft and valve shims. The area I needed to work in was surrounded by puddles of oil.

I rarely use my side stand, and prefer to store the bike on the center stand.

There was so much oil in my way, I couldn't easily remove the shims, as they were UNDER the puddle of oil!

Reluctantly, I replaced the valve cover, fuel tank, and seat so I could take the bike OFF THE CENTER STAND, and let it rest on the side stand so the excess oil could drain back into the sump.

Needless to say, I got distracted by another task (rotating tires on my car), and it's now raining. Grrr...

Anyway, I am now a believer in the process that DavidR (SlowOldGuy) discussed earlier in this thread. I'm man enough to admit to being humbled by someone who knows far more than I do.

Steve


Think about this. Nobody that I know rides their bike on their side-stand so; the oil that is captured in the lower sections of the valve gear is always going to be there whilst riding, therefore increasing oil capacity. Surely Yamaha took this into consideration when they wrote the instructions on how to check the oil level.
    Please don't take this as me arguing that anyone is right or wrong about how the oil level should be checked but just something else to consider whilst deciding which method you choose to use.   Regards, Pete.
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: oz.fj on May 02, 2013, 04:24:45 PM
Quote from: oldktmdude on May 02, 2013, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 30, 2013, 06:34:42 PM

I hate to touch this thread again, but I'd like to address an issue that I discovered while adjusting my valves, that supports SlowOldGuy's method of filling the oil to the proper level.

Earlier this afternoon, I removed the valve cover on my 1992 FJ to expose the camshaft and valve shims. The area I needed to work in was surrounded by puddles of oil.

I rarely use my side stand, and prefer to store the bike on the center stand.

There was so much oil in my way, I couldn't easily remove the shims, as they were UNDER the puddle of oil!

Reluctantly, I replaced the valve cover, fuel tank, and seat so I could take the bike OFF THE CENTER STAND, and let it rest on the side stand so the excess oil could drain back into the sump.

Needless to say, I got distracted by another task (rotating tires on my car), and it's now raining. Grrr...

Anyway, I am now a believer in the process that DavidR (SlowOldGuy) discussed earlier in this thread. I'm man enough to admit to being humbled by someone who knows far more than I do.

Steve


Think about this. Nobody that I know rides their bike on their side-stand so; the oil that is captured in the lower sections of the valve gear is always going to be there whilst riding, therefore increasing oil capacity. Surely Yamaha took this into consideration when they wrote the instructions on how to check the oil level.
    Please don't take this as me arguing that anyone is right or wrong about how the oil level should be checked but just something else to consider whilst deciding which method you choose to use.   Regards, Pete.

Maybe not on the side stand
But I've seen your bike leaned out futher than that
While you've been riding :mocking:

Darran
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: mr blackstock on May 03, 2013, 03:34:52 AM
While I do not wish to get anyone further inflamed...for a long time my oil level seemed to be guess work, some days it would look damn near empty, other days mostly full.  It got to the point where I was carrying spare oil in case the light came on!

Today I tried David's technique, park on side stand for a few minutes and then on full stand....bugger me if it did not work great, no more waiting for an hour for the bloody oil to work it's way down to the sump.

While the argument stating Yamaha would have allowed for that may be valid, but I have never came across this oil level issue before, nor the petcock popping out while riding etc...

Thanks David, it works for me, and it reinforces why I come to this forum, advice, tips, and tech info.

cheers, Gareth
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: jvb_ca on May 03, 2013, 07:41:44 AM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 11, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
With bike on centerstand, fill with oil until it just fills the window. 
Start the motor and run for about a minute to fill the oil filter.
Shut the motor off and place the bike on the side stand for about 5 minutes to allow excess oil in the top end to drain to the sump.
Back on the centerstand to top off and just fill to the top of the window.

If you top off without ever taking the bike off the centerstand to let the top end drain, you'll overfill it.

DavidR.

Hmmm..never noticed this before. This is interesting. I just did my out of storage oil change the other day and I topped it up to just below the top line on the sight window like I always do.  I don't have a centre stand so I use a pit stand. This probably jacks the ass up more than the centre stand does but at least it is level side to side. I have never given it any more thought. I keep an eye on it, and it always goes down a bit after a good extended spirited ride, but I always think this is normal for an older air cooled motor with a few miles on it.
Now with this info, I have probably been over filling since day one. I am going to check this when I get home as I haven't gone for a ride yet.
Thanks David. :good2:

Cheers...Jake
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: Woodsman on May 05, 2013, 12:59:10 AM
Great. :good2: I knew there would be some advantage in not having a centre stand. :biggrin:
Title: Re: oil level
Post by: crzyjarmans on May 05, 2013, 09:03:05 AM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on April 14, 2013, 01:37:53 PM

Shawn,
The evolution of this thread is an example as to WHY we don't bring up the "O_L" subject.

It's like pissing on the campfire!

Steve


Lesson learned, I promise I wont bring p that word again :nea: