Hello all.
Need some electrical help as I have reached the limit of my electrical abilities.
Basically My turn signals are not working. I traced the problem down to the relay. When I bang on it it works but it is intermittent. I figured that the relay is not just the flasher relay as it has way too many wires going to it. Wiring diagram doesn't really make it obvious but I am guessing cutoff and starter relay are integrated in same unit. Bike starts OK. Problem is just with turn signals.
Searched forum extensively, no joy. Is there a way to wire in a separate off the shelf relay for the turn signals? I would be surprised that this has not been done yet. (By the way what is a reed switch as indicated in wiring diagram)
Many thanks for any help
Reed switch is used as a counter for the self-cancelling indicators.
Quote from: cm08 on March 03, 2013, 06:59:24 PM
Hello all.
Need some electrical help as I have reached the limit of my electrical abilities.
Basically My turn signals are not working. I traced the problem down to the relay. When I bang on it it works but it is intermittent. I figured that the relay is not just the flasher relay as it has way too many wires going to it. Wiring diagram doesn't really make it obvious but I am guessing cutoff and starter relay are integrated in same unit. Bike starts OK. Problem is just with turn signals.
Searched forum extensively, no joy. Is there a way to wire in a separate off the shelf relay for the turn signals? I would be surprised that this has not been done yet. (By the way what is a reed switch as indicated in wiring diagram)
Many thanks for any help
Hello is there a way you can send me the diagram. I think the reed switch is a one switch,, like a reed valve on a two stroke engine lets air in and closes to restrict the air. Or like dials on electrical. Is there a number on the relay that is bad. Also wiggle the wires around the relay may have a bad connection. Do you think this is a transistor type relay. Open it up and with a pocket screw driver. Gonza
Quote from: cm08 on March 03, 2013, 06:59:24 PM
Hello all.
Need some electrical help as I have reached the limit of my electrical abilities.
Basically My turn signals are not working. I traced the problem down to the relay. When I bang on it it works but it is intermittent. I figured that the relay is not just the flasher relay as it has way too many wires going to it. Wiring diagram doesn't really make it obvious but I am guessing cutoff and starter relay are integrated in same unit. Bike starts OK. Problem is just with turn signals.
Searched forum extensively, no joy. Is there a way to wire in a separate off the shelf relay for the turn signals? I would be surprised that this has not been done yet. (By the way what is a reed switch as indicated in wiring diagram)
Many thanks for any help
this is my full I.D. Gonzajr had a mine laps Thanks
The wiring diagram I referenced is in this forum's Files section / service manuals / 84-85 wiring diagram.
I did open the relay box. It is loose connection as the problem is intemittent but it is not with the connector, it is somewhere on the board or hardware (relays).
This is why I want to bypass this relay box but just for the turn signals. (as I stated in my original post)
Thanks
In case anyone else ever has a flasher relay problem and would also like to add in a cheap off the shelf flasher, I finally figured out how. Remove the chocolate and chocolate/white wires from the connector to the relay (they are next to each other) and connect them to a new 2 pin flasher relay.
Excellent tip that works. I now have turn signals... :good2:
Quote from: Kgip2k on June 24, 2018, 09:54:30 AM
Excellent tip that works. I now have turn signals... :good2:
Your update post couldn't have come at a better time!
I had my turn signals fail on me the other day on my way home from work..........( rush-hour traffic with no turn signals is sketchy and dangerous! No one here recognizes hand-signals )
After some studying of the OEM wiring diagram and some testing, this is exactly what I did. Mine is a 1990 FJ1200.
Located the failed OEM flasher relay (mine is up inside the left side of the fairing) and pull it out along with the harness connector. Luckily I did not have to remove the fairing, only the left inner panel and the air-scoop.
Disconnect the OEM 5-wire Flasher Relay and discard it.
Substitute a standard Automotive-style 2-wire relay (I used a more expensive "Electronic" flasher that doesn't care how many bulbs you have in the circuit)
Slice-open Thumb on the Oil Cooler when the force on the connector finally exceeds the force required to hold it in place........... :mad:
I used one of my terminal-disconnect tools to slip out the wire and connector for both the Brown "Power" and the Brown/White-stripe "Load" wires from the factory connector.
Installed some Heat-shrink tubing over the bare blade connectors, cause that's how I roll.........
Hook them up to the new 2-wire Flasher blades (flasher doesn't care which way you hook them up)
Zip-tie the new flasher out of the way, and leave the original factory connector somewhere nearby.
Turn Signals now work perfectly again. (Note: This replacement mod will disable the original self-canceling function if it still worked to begin with) Mine did not. That function stopped working some time ago...........
Pic of your thumb or it didn't happen.
I'm almost speechless to notice the new relay is "Made in Canada". We still make dinky electronic parts like that and sell them somewhere else?
Nice clear write up. I'm just wondering if a working self cancelling unit can be retained when we're just adapting a new 2 wire part for the actual flashing function.
Quote from: Charlie-brm on July 02, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
Pic of your thumb or it didn't happen.
Haha. I wasn't going to post the picture of my thumb, but since you asked.......... :sarcastic:
I honestly don't know how you would retain the factory self-cancel function, unless you source a good used original relay.
Sadly my search shows the 1100 relay is no longer available from Yamaha. For the 1988-1990 1200's the flasher is available, but not inexpensive. https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/2UJ-83350-00-00?ref=93b881e6ff215c5125db8e83b6643b9b3fa59961 (https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/2UJ-83350-00-00?ref=93b881e6ff215c5125db8e83b6643b9b3fa59961)
Fred
I suspect that most of the flasher relays are not bad but that the reed switch that sends a signal to them are worn out. The flasher relays count the number of on/off signals sent from the reed switch to determine when to shut off the flasher. The reed switch is activated by a magnet on the tach for every revolution. This means the reed switch is on/off all the time even when not acting as a switch signal for the flasher relay. These reed switches are rated for millions of cycles but that is what they are getting anytime the bike is running. To check the reed switch it would have to be isolated and a magnet applied and measure continuity between the two wires on the reed switch. If no continuity with magnet applied then the reed switch is bad. No idea where the reed switch is but it would have to be extremely close to the tach. Maybe mounted on side or back of tach.
Dave
Dave, I thought the self canceling was connected to the odometer, not the tach.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 02, 2018, 09:09:51 PM
Dave, I thought the self canceling was connected to the odometer, not the tach.
Pat I think you are correct. I have never seen the switch myself. Has anyone got a picture of the backside of the odometer?
Dave
The reed switch is activated by the speedometer input.
It activates every time the cable completes a revolution. The flasher may have a circuit inside that counts these signals and then turns off the flash once a predetermined number is reached.
In the picture, you can see the reed switch mounted just above the speedometer input.
Down inside the slot, you can see the wheel that turns with the speedometer cable input.
Great picture Alan. It appears the reed switch is oriented in the right position for the magnet in the wheel to pull the contacts together from a normally open to a closed circuit for the logic level micro controller in the flasher relay. Seeing how small and delicate this switch is, it is more likely to fail from vibration than use. Clever of them to glue it in place. Securing a voltmeter to the two wires and slowly turning the speedometer to check for continuity would tell you if it was still good. Getting to the back side of the speedometer would be more trouble. The one in the picture appears to still be good. If it was bad would expect to see one or other of the legs loose inside the glass tube. I am still convinced the failure of this reed switch is one probable cause of failure to flash. However I have no proof. The other is the logic level micro controller. I think problems with this system is why Yamaha decided to delete it altogether on later models.
Dave
FWIW, the self cancelling feature on my '86 suddenly started working again after Randy rebuilt my carbs. Go figure. :unknown:
The pictures are of my spare cluster. I didn't test the circuit but it would be easy to do with the cluster out of the bike. The wiring diagram shows that the reed-switch is connected to ground, so whenever the bike is in motion there is a "ground/no-ground" signal from the flasher relay logic circuits.
Since the cluster is rubber-mounted, I would guess the reed-switch is most likely still functioning properly. Yes, Yamaha glues them in place. I would tend to agree with you in that the failure of the cancel feature is most likely inside the logic of the flasher relay. Yamaha must have been concerned with vibration, cause the flasher relay is mounted inside a rubber strap which slides over a tang on the frame up under the fairing.
On my '90 the self-cancel feature quit working years ago. The flasher still worked normally. I just had to manually turn it off. The other day on my way home from work it quit flashing the bulbs altogether. I'm pretty sure something shorted inside the flasher relay, as I could still hear a rapid clicking from inside with the key on. It was no longer sending power to the left/right handlebar switch however.
Back when the self-cancel function still worked, it was very intermittent. Sometimes it would seem to work normal, sometimes it would cancel in the middle of my turn, and sometimes it would not cancel at all.
I was glad when it finally quit canceling, and it just became habit to turn it off manually.
Yesterday after reading what was posted here up to that point, I got more curious and found a thread for a XS650 group and there were some points lifted from the Haynes manual that were interesting.
From the Haynes manual, page 162, (28):
"The purpose of this system is to turn off the turn signal automatically after a period of TIME or DISTANCE. At very low speed, the signal will cancel after a distance of 164 yards has been covered. At high speeds the signal will cancel after a time of 10 seconds has elapsed. When traveling in the lower range of speeds the signal will cancel after a COMBINATION of both time and distance."
Uh huh. Got it. Then my eyes glazed over and I thought, how does anyone come up with this in 1984 terms of design (and before that with the XS650) without an Arduino?
One take away tip: Some guy corrected his signals failure by re-flowing the solder connections of the wires at the junctions with the ends of the reed switch. They were imperceptibly corroded and intermittent. Problem solved for him.