Okay guys, the beginnings of the FJOwners Valve Shim Kit is now in my hands. I need to get some feedback on how we want to handle this kit. I want to thank moellear for making a great deal so this kit can be available to everyone.
I have some expense into this kit that I need to recoup and I also stated that I would add the valve shim tool and add to the shim count as there are several sizes either under or not represented. I am also going to laminate the instructions and adjusting chart that will be included with the kit.
So, with all of that said and done I am going to have $200.00 invested in this kit.
So, with that said and this being the groups kit, we need to work out a couple of things.
1) I need to get reimbursed for my expenditure to get this started.
2) How are we going to keep track of the kit. Is it going to come back to me after every use or is it going from club member to club member?
3) I am going to establish an inventory of the total number of shims how are we going to keep them from disappearing?
4) Is the kit going to come back to me on occasion to restock the shims that are being used the most?
5) Is this going to be a world wide kit?
6) Do we all ante a small fee every time we use the kit?
One thing that I am sure of with this kit is regarding the shipping. Since it will be shipped, possibly, all over the world, USPS Priority Service with a tracking number is going to be required. The tracking number should be posted to the member who is going to be receiving the kit so they can follow it's progress. If you are shipping from your country to another the shipping method must use tracking so that we never loose track of the kit.
I am looking for your thoughts on how we, as a group, are going to be good stewards of this kit and not let it just go to shit.
Randy - RPM
Randy I think that is really great. That you have done this. I won't be using it because my local Yamaha dealer will swap shims for free. At least for now. But I would like to send you $5 just for doing it. How should I go about sending it to you?
I think it should be sent back to you. As soon as they get done with it. Unless someone has put in a request for it. And then they can ship it to the next person on the list. Updating the list with the tracking no. Let me know how to get the $5 to you
Thanks again for all you do for us
Dan McCoy
Randy,
Thanks for getting this kick started. I think the kit ought to go back to you. I assume the cost of shims per service is not costly but having the kit at the time of service is valuable. How much does the kit weigh (shipping cost?)? Cost of set of a shims plus shipping? If by chance one did not need shims after all, just shipping plus some minimum rate. 5$? It could take a while for you to re-coop your $200, unless enough of us simply send a donation. It would interesting to see the demand for it. I have not checked in for awhile, so I could be behind the curve on this topic.
I am ready to use the kit. If that's possible I will coax FJMONKEY to my place with beer.
Mike
Randy
I too think the kit should be sent back to you. I don't miss trust any other member on this forum, but related experience similar to this tells me that the kit would be lost somewere down the way. And we all know that your shipping is reliable so to me it seems the most logical way to do it.
Quote from: Mike 86 in San Dimas on February 28, 2013, 10:05:37 PM
It could take a while for you to re-coop your $200, unless enough of us simply send a donation.
Mike
I agree with Mike here. All though more then enough members probably would pay per usage etc. I do think a donation also would be a good idea. It would reimburse your expenses faster, and after all, we are all dependent on good quality parts for our FJ's and there are not many (in fact non to my knowledge) that supply the FJ with parts like you do. I would gladly donate, and I'm sure others would too.
Cheers Ken
If you have a request list posted on here and it gets updated with the tracking no. We can all keep track of where it is. And gently remind the last person if need be. I know I sometimes need reminding.
Randy,
I think your action in getting this kit and looking to make it available to all is fantastic.
That said, I think that it should probably stay a North American rather than a worldwide kit.
This is due to the cost and time shipping takes as well as the possibility of some super-keen customs ape deciding that duty and taxes have to be paid before it can be released. While I frequently get packages from US to Australia in 5-8 days, I have also waited over 3 weeks for some items, mainly due to customs hold-ups. That means that it could take up to 6 weeks for the kit to get here and back IF I were to use it immediately when it arrived. That's not fair to the other forum members or you.
Cheers,
Arnie
I have been toying with the idea of doing something similar with a carb sync tool I have: Morgan Carbtune II. It is currently loaned to another member here. The tool is being very under-utilized in my possession, so loaning it does not seem like a bad idea (famous last words...). My biggest concern with loaning this out regularly, has been, obviously having it get lost, never to be seen (by me) again.
So one of the ideas I had was to only consider loaning it to someone who has at least X number (50?) of posts here, and perhaps also be a forum contributor. To me this demonstrates a certain level of forum citizenship, which, I speculate, lends itself towards a higher likelihood of getting it back in one piece.
Perhaps these standards could also be applied to the shim kit?
Just a thought,
Dan
Quote from: Dan Filetti on March 01, 2013, 09:18:18 AM
So one of the ideas I had was to only consider loaning it to someone who has at least X number (50?) of posts here, and perhaps also be a forum contributor. To me this demonstrates a certain level of forum citizenship, which, I speculate, lends itself towards a higher likelihood of getting it back in one piece.
Dan
Dan, it seems like I qualify based on your criteria (more than 50 posts, contributor, active member) and also the fact that I am the member currently in possesion of your sync tool. If you want to do this then I would be happy to follow any rules you establish for your loaner sync tool. As a bonus, when I ship from my work I get a killer discount from UPS. I recently shipped a 4lb package back East 3 day select, retail cost is about $57, my cost $13. It is your sync tool so it is your call. I am thankful for the loan, and will be using it shortly as I am rebuilding my carbs.
Randy , how bout you put a place on your RPM fj parts site for shim kit donation. That would make it easy for everyone to send you 10.00 to cover your cost.
After 20 people have donated you turn it into a 5.00 pay as you loan it deal.
The kit should be returned to you after each use and inventoried so it dosen't end up a bunch of big ass shims.
get your shipping costs up front before sending out, so when you ship it out ,you can provide a return shipping label so the recipient can simply send it back all pre-paid .
let everyone know who has it so we can flip them shit if they sit on it for more than a week.
hold credit card info and charge the 200.00 if kit is lost by borrower .
perhaps , there will be valve adjust partys where fj' owners can gather when the kit is in their area.
Back in the yahoo days , there was a group shim kit that was" lost "by some asshole who kept it for himself . the 200.00 penalty should prevent that.
Anyway , that's what I see as the best way to handle it.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on March 01, 2013, 09:18:18 AM
So one of the ideas I had was to only consider loaning it to someone who has at least X number (50?) of posts here, and perhaps also be a forum contributor. To me this demonstrates a certain level of forum citizenship, which, I speculate, lends itself towards a higher likelihood of getting it back in one piece.
Dan
My local dealer also exchanges shims one for one but that could change anytime. I agree with Dan and Mark. The borrower needs to be financially on the hook to replace the whole kit plus misc charges if not returned. I just don't see it working any other way in the long term. I am not opposed to putting a 250.00 temporary/deposit credit card charge on with a daily rental fee to be adjusted upon return of the kit. The 250.00 or what ever, would cover the kit cost plus the shipping and insurance out cost. Put a max time of 2 weeks after that they own it. :).
My local plumbing dealer has about the same program "renting" there PEX crimping tool. You buy it for 120.00. If you return it with in 5 days they will refund you 110.00. After 5 days you bought the tool.
George
What Mark O and George said makes sense to me. I'd be open to a higher loan fee to make it worth Randy's time to monitor, stock, receive and ship the kit.
Mark M
Quote from: markmartin on March 01, 2013, 04:23:16 PM
What Mark O and George said makes sense to me. I'd be open to a higher loan fee to make it worth Randy's time to monitor, stock, receive and ship the kit.
Mark M
Yep, I agree. I think $20 plus shipping...I agree with it staying in the US...no telling what customs will do...
Randy if you can come up with a flat fee for USA shipping, that would make it easy.
First, let's get Randy made whole...Randy give us your PayPal info and when you get $200 collected, the kit will become ready to ship....and not before.
Now, what to do about security...? I think a way to handle it is for the user to enter his credit card info on Randy's RPM site (as a security deposit) the amount should be $200 (or the replacement value of the kit) and then the transaction should go thru the credit card approval process and remain open and * not be charged* unless the kit is not returned. When the kit is returned to Randy (with no bent tools or missing shims) Randy then clears off the credit card charge.
No harm, no foul...
That way our new folks can use the kit....(not that we don't trust you... We just don't know you)
We should also consider a time limit so someone does not have the kit too long..30 days? 60 days?
Just my ideas...subject to change....yada yada yada
I like Pat's plan. It's going to be a lot of work for Randy to keep track, etc. He should make something for his effort.
$20 is basically 2 shims from the dealer. And don't count on the dealers swapping shims forever. They will eventually stop.
Another option, if you don't mind waiting, is to determine what shims you need and have Randy mail them to you and you mail your old ones back to him. There need to be some nominal fee for this action (+ mail fees).
The only way for the above to work efficiently is if you have a list of your current installed shims. You have that list, don't you? Everyone has this information, of course.
(Que for Dan response)
DavidR.
Security deposit - Yes.
Time Limit - Yes.
Charge per use - Yes.
Return to Randy - Yes but with possible exceptions. Maybe ship to other trusted users? what if three people on the East coast would like to use it?
What is the replacement value of each shim and or tool if damaged?
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on March 01, 2013, 05:38:53 PM
Another option, if you don't mind waiting, is to determine what shims you need and have Randy mail them to you and you mail your old ones back to him. There need to be some nominal fee for this action (+ mail fees).
That's a good option for those of us who have to park our bikes for 6 months and aren't trying to get it done on the weekend.
Quote from: racerrad8 on February 28, 2013, 08:18:37 PM
... add to the shim count as there are several sizes either under or not represented.
Randy,
Not sure which sizes you're missing, but I've got extra 268, 270 and 275 shims if the kit needs them. If you've got an over abundance of other sizes I'll swap you some. If you don't have an over abundance of other sizes, I'll give you some. All shipping would be on me, either way.
GT
Well, this is timely!
Personally, I have two (2) FJ engines whose valves badly in need of adjustment. I'm certain that NancyK and her man Jeff wouldn't mind having theirs checked, either. Don is a recent addition who's just up the road, and Brook is just down the road.
I sense the makings for a Florida FJ "Shim-Dig" day. Maybe we could even get a T-shirt to commemorate the event! (Surplus 2012 NorthEast Rally shirts with "Florida Shim-Dig" written in Sharpie marker)
I hereby commit to a contribution via whatever means you deem fit. (Paypal is convenient, so is a check. Blood, not so much) Put my name on the list!!!
Also, since you bring it up, I have an *EXTRA* Motion Pro carb sync tool (Old-Skool; uses Mercury) that I could donate to go with the shim kit. I can even scare up some extra Mercury to go with it. This way, many of the final tuning needs can be handled in one easy procedure.
Now, if someone could donate a Mighty-Vac for brake/clutch bleeding and a sonic carb cleaner, we'd be all set!
Randy, PM me, or I'll call you on Monday to get your feedback on the carb sync tool.
Cheers!
Steve
I'm in for a donation.
I will donate even if I already have the hold down tool, having a selection of shims would have prevented my #1 intake from becoming a tappy valve. It tells to fix it at every stop light...Tap, tap, tap....
Sorry guys, I have been off to work until late yesterday.
I thank everyone for wanting to make the donation. If you want to donate to the kit, send me a PayPal as a "gift" to randy@rpmracingca.com.
I do think that Pat is correct that the cost of the kit needs to be full filled before sending it out for rental.
Now, back to how the FJowners Shim Kit is going to work out. I have read all of your suggestions and had a conversation with my son who is a member of several Miata forums. There are many guys over there who loan/rent tools and after reading how they are done and the recommendations here, this is the program I have come up with.
At this time the shim kit is going to be for the the US. If this kit takes off then I might build kits, designate a international responsible steward for the international kit(s) and see if they can;t be a world wide offering.
1) The shim kit & tool will be rented via PayPal for a value of $225.00 which includes the shipping to you. There will be a specific inventory of each applicable shim.
2) The name, shipping address, email FJowners ID will need to be either;
a) Attached to the PayPal payment
b) Sent to me via an email with the PayPal transaction ID number.
3) The kit will be shipped to the renter via USPS priority mail service with an associated tracking number.
4) The member will have the tool for a pre-determined amount of days based on the delivery date via the tracking information. (I am thinking 10 days. That way if you get it mid week you are able to have a weekend to get it done, and possibly two)
4) Once the renter has completed their adjustment they document the shims used, add their old shims to the kit.
5) The kit needs to be returned to me via USPS priority mail shipment, medium flat rate is going to be the cheapest based on the weight of the kit at the current 2013 price of $12.35 which includes the tracking number. Once the priority shipment a tracking number is received by the renter, this number needs to be forwarded to me via email so that I can track the package.
6) Once the package is received, inventoried and the tool inspected for damage, you will be credited back via your PayPal account in the amount of $200.00.
** If you decide to keep your old shims you removed, you will be charged for re-stocking the inventory.
This restocking will be done with new shims at the cost of new shims listed on my website and deducted from
deposit.
** If the tool is damaged due to bending or breakage to due contact with the camshaft, a replacement tool will be
added to the kit and the price of the tool deducted from the deposit.
Now, if you go over the amount of days allotted for the use of the kit, a late fee will be deducted in the amount of $20.00 per week based receipt of the kit via the tracking number.
I would like your feedback on the amount of acceptable days the kit should be in the renters hand to compete the job. We need to make sure we don't end up having the kit sitting on someones bench while they are trying to get around to doing the work. This will keep the kit out of the hands of those who could be using it.
Also, in order to rent the kit, does the member have to have a minimum number of past on the forum or be a member for the forum for a specified amount of time? I don't know you guys need to make that call.
Let me know what you guys think. I have thought this out pretty thoroughly, but I might be missing something.
If this is a go, once I am made whole on the kit then it will be available for use.
If that is the case, Pat I need you to create a post or section for the shim kit on the forum. I will post up who I send the kit to and the estimated time it is to be returned. That way people can have their name on a reservation list so I can send the kit to those in the order it has been received via the forum. Once I get to your name on the reservation list I will send a message to the post, a pm and email letting you know it is your turn to rent the kit.
If this becomes to tedious on my end over time I might be looking for someone to take of the care & custody of the kit. Hopefully the process will be nailed down by then. I am not doing this to make money, and really I doubt I will make any. The total profit after shipping is $12.50. If I have to keep supplying replacement shims due to usage, then that profit will hopefully wash the cost of the shims for replacement. If not and it is costing me money, I will be adjusting the prices.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: cyclenutk75 on March 01, 2013, 07:03:01 PM
Randy,
Not sure which sizes you're missing, but I've got extra 268, 270 and 275 shims if the kit needs them. If you've got an over abundance of other sizes I'll swap you some. If you don't have an over abundance of other sizes, I'll give you some. All shipping would be on me, either way.
GT
GT,
While I have an abundance of shims for my personal use and I am willing to add to the kit to get it started, I am sure any additional shims would be great to add to the kit.
The issue I have personally is that I use all of my shims on a regular basis at my shop and the track for the race cars. I have never really kept and accurate track of how many engines I adjust annually, but I would say it is probably close to 200. So, while I have shims on top of shims in cases here, I use them regularly. I am willing to use some of my inventory to start this kit, but it is not going to be something I can continually do for years to come.
If you would like to donate to the cause for the FJowners kit, I will gladly add them to the inventory of the kit.
Thanks, Randy - RPM
I believe the pay pal deposit should be enough, if we require a minimum post count people will just post garbage just to reach that number, and the integrity would be lost. .02
sounds good to me Randy . lets do it.
An update...
To date I have receive a total of $19.41 towards the reimbursement of the kit.
If there is no interest in this, I will absorb the shims into my stock and this topic will be closed as it is not a viable thing to be done.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 14, 2013, 04:13:50 PM
An update...
To date I have receive a total of $19.41 towards the reimbursement of the kit.
If there is no interest in this, I will absorb the shims into my stock and this topic will be closed as it is not a viable thing to be done.
Randy - RPM
Come on boys! Hell I don't even OWN an FJ anymore and I sent him a 10 spot. What the hell is wrong with you folks?
Dan
As soon as I get some extra cash I will send you 20. On another topic, I just received my package from Randy today :yahoo: :yahoo: Thanks Randy I will be ordering some more parts in the near future. What I like about this is that I don't have to pay duty on anything. If it was to come via Fedex or UPS I would have to pay a brokers fee plus all the applicable taxes. Thanks Randy for such great service :i_am_so_happy: :i_am_so_happy:
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 14, 2013, 04:13:50 PM
To date I have receive a total of $19.41 towards the reimbursement of the kit.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on March 14, 2013, 06:39:09 PM
Come on boys! Hell I don't even OWN an FJ anymore and I sent him a 10 spot. What the hell is wrong with you folks?
Dan
Umm, that doesn't add up. I sent in $10 too.
Quote from: markmartin on March 14, 2013, 07:59:00 PM
Umm, that doesn't add up. I sent in $10 too.
Yep, one of the two payments wasn't sent as a gift and fees were taken out of the payment...
Also, if you did send me a payment and this does not work out, I will send your money back.
Randy - RPM
Check the balance again.
Quote from: Dads_FJ on March 14, 2013, 08:28:55 PM
Check the balance again.
Thank you.
So far I have received donations from:
Dan Filetti
Mark martin
Dads FJ
The current balance is: $34.41
I will update the balance as additional payments are made. Again, if there is not enough interested in the club kit to satisfy payment, I will refund all monies donated at the time of the cut-off date.
Is giving it until the end of March enough time to get this thing paid off or longer?
Randy - RPM
$30 sent. No worries about any refund, credit it to my upcoming shop time.
I do hope this works out, it would be a great service for the DIY'ers...
Donations to date:
Dan Filetti
Mark martin
Dads FJ
Pat Conlon
Winddancer
Steve_in_Florida
Donation total to date: $106.41
Randy - RPM
$10 sent.
Love the idea, my shims need done badly.
thanks
andrew
I just sent a donation too.. I know at the moment it will be only a North American offer, but what the heck! It's fore a good cause!
Need a boost i karma anyway :good2:
Cheers
Ken
Finally got around to sending a $10 donation. Even though I was the first to say I was going to. Like I said I won't be using it. But I think it's great that you are doing it Randy.
Donations to date:
Dan Filetti
Mark Martin
Dads FJ
Pat Conlon
Winddancer
Steve_in_Florida
Candieandy
Not a lib
Keand3
Giantkiller
Donation total to date: $156.41
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 16, 2013, 10:35:10 AM
Donations to date:
Dan Filetti
Mark Martin
Dads FJ
Pat Conlon
Winddancer
Steve_in_Florida
Candieandy
Not a lib
Keand3
Giantkiller
Donation total to date: $156.41
I just sent you $10 Randy.
Hey Bud I added to the cause as well :good2:
Sent you a 10.
Randy donation sent. Hope this helps. Thanks for all you do for the FJ community.
Kurt
Guys, I am at work until Friday. I do not have the totals at this point, but I will update it when I get back to the shop.
Randy - RPM
Donations to date:
Dan Filetti
Mark Martin
Dads FJ
Pat Conlon
Winddancer
Steve_in_Florida
Candieandy
Not a lib
Keand3
Giantkiller
FJmonkey
Mike 86 in San Dimas
Baldy3853
jamesearthdrum
yamaha fj rider
aviationfred
Total donations; $246.41.
I want to thank everyone who donated. I will be getting with Pat to get the shim kit page/file/or whatever we are going to make for reservations/rental.
I will be making up the instructions pages over the weekend and hopefully we can have this in place next week.
Thanks again, Randy
Thanks for all of your effort Randy. Once again, we'll all be able to hit the easy button when the time comes to maintain, modify, or repair our bikes.
Mark M
If Mike donated then that means I am doing his next valve adjustment.... I don't work for cheep beer Mike.... Just thought you might want to know that.... :ireful:
Sweet. Glad to see we were able to pull thru and make this happen.
Andrew
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 22, 2013, 07:50:49 PM
If Mike donated then that means I am doing his next valve adjustment.... I don't work for cheep beer Mike.... Just thought you might want to know that.... :ireful:
Slut :drinks:
PS we riding sat or not ? :crazy:
Quote from: Mike 86 in San Dimas on March 28, 2013, 10:55:34 PM
Slut :drinks:
PS we riding sat or not ? :crazy:
Yes, we ride tomorrow with DJFrank and his tricked out 84.