I purchased a low mileage FJ, 13,000 miles. The bike has an FZ1 swing arm installed by the P O . What could go wrong? Well I would like to chronicle my findings so far.
It was mentioned to me by the PO that a new set of wishbones and a Penske or RPM shock would b all it needs
So I put her up on the lift and had a look. Now all you people who have done a swing arm conversion already know where this is going, but I will continue. The shock linkage of a 90 FJ is roughly 20 mm wider than the attachment point on the 02 FZ 1 swing arm . Rather than mill down the suspension linkage the stock FJ collar was used, which cantilevered out 10 mm on each side. Since the bearing diameter is the same on both, I had the linkage milled down 10 mm on each side and the bearing race? Or bore? Increased 10mm as well to allow for stock FJ bearings to be installed.
This was all done and a new Penske shock wa ordered. However, when doing this work I took a closer look at the swing arm and noticed that it move side to side approx 3mm. Hmmmmm, better take that apart since the shock is already off. As far as I know the swing arm needs to be made narrower to fit on the FJ. Well it is also important to reduce the size of the bearing collar by the same amount as the swing arm. The side to side movement was due to the collar being too long. So well that was made narrower so it was only slightly longer than the swing arm is wide. Perfect right.? Wrong the spacers that normally reside inside the caps, or dust seals were missing. As I have a spare complete bike I took the spacers from donor bike and installed them. Now it is perfect. No movement side to side and smooth operation
So I thought great once my shock arrived all I neede to do was bolt it on and go. But one day I was reading a thread on this great forum regarding fitting wider wheels. So I followed the thread, and noticed a certain bike with the same swing arm as mine.(racerman). So I asked him a few questions about my bikes conversion. I was wanting to know some details regarding the sprocket. He said the bets thing to do was takeoff the sprocket cover and have a look. So back to the garage . Remove the cover. Oh wow the inside of the sprocket cover has material removed by the chain! That can't be good. Also upon further inspection the sprocket was loose! It is difficult to find a socket that fits inside an offset sprocket. So I messaged racerman and his advice was " call Randy". Or email more specifically. Which I did and now am waiting for XJR sprocket cover, longer clutch pushrod , longer shift shaft, bearings for shift shaft, dust seals etc,etc,etc.
So the moral of the story is don't buy a bike modded by someone else if you don't know what to look for. Although when done I will have a fabulous machine, I must say Thanks for the advice from Racerman. If had ridden that bike as it was who knows what would have happened. if there was no forum there is no way I would even have known what to look for or what to check.
Another person on this site told me about the 3.5 inch 88FZR rim conversion . As I knew of one I purchased it and it has been powder coated and is ready for install when the bearings come in .
KOkaloo
thats all great info mate, thanks for sharing , as im going to be fitting an xjr wwing arm to my modified 84, wont have any problems mounting the fj shock or should i say honda shock, as yet it has no mounting point for one ,,
"Restored" cars are the same way. Always figure that what was done is questionable unless you know who did the work and understand what to look for. I am glad you took the time and money to make your bike a safe ride. It is always reassuring to know that you have done the inspections and maintenance yourself. That's why I never let a dealer/mechanic ever work on mine unless its absolutely necessary. good on you for doing your own work.
George
Quote from: fj johnnie on February 16, 2013, 06:53:04 PM
If there was no forum there is no way I would even have known what to look for or what to check.
Good on you!
Sounds like it's time to make a "nominal" donation in order to "prove your love". There's a convenient DONATE button at the bottom of the page, just for this purpose. Marsh (our wizard-behind-the-curtain) can't provide this site for us for free, y'know.
I, for one, really appreciate reading the posts and advice on this site.
Long live our FJ's!
Steve
Hey Johnnie, you may be in luck.
On my T-Ace swing arm conversions, under the grease cups, I used the Torrington needle bearings (thrust bearings) from the YZF750.
Check them out.
(http://www.fjmods.co.uk/Pictures/MarcRittner/3SwingarmPartsA.jpg)
3) SWING ARM PIVOT AREA – The swingarm pivot area needs to be narrowed in order to fit into the FJ frame. 'FJ Tom' Slocum told me that the Yamaha YZF750 used a 3-piece needle thrust bearing on its swingarm to handle side thrust loads. I thought that would be great on the FJ, as I could machine the pivot for minimum clearance but still have zero friction with no binding. These thrust bearings are composed of (2) 1mm hardened races, with a 2mm radial needle bearing sandwiched in between.
Discussed here: http://www.fjmods.co.uk/MarcRittner.htm (http://www.fjmods.co.uk/MarcRittner.htm) Cheers! Pat
I will make a donation but have no idea what is considered appropriate. I am certainly aware of the value of the information this site has given me. If anyone can suggest to me what is considered appropriate please message me. Any input will help.
Quote from: fj johnnie on February 16, 2013, 08:12:20 PM
I will make a donation but have no idea what is considered appropriate. I am certainly aware of the value of the information this site has given me. If anyone can suggest to me what is considered appropriate please message me. Any input will help.
Well, I wasn't trying to be annoying, but it's been a while since I've seen anyone post a "Jerry Lewis".
Whatever you can afford is appropriate. There is no set minimum (that I'm aware of...), and I have never seen Marsh publicly ridicule anyone for the amount they donated.
Of course, I've not yet been to any of the rallies, so there's NO TELLING just what gets brought up over beers around the campfire!
Think of it as buying the administrator a drink or ten! :drinks:
Now *I* feel guilty as it's been a while since I last donated!
Steve
Don't worry about the amount, we will send you the paperwork to sign up for payroll deduction.....
We will figure out the amount....Trust us.......heh, heh heh....
Quote from: fj johnnie on February 16, 2013, 08:12:20 PM
I will make a donation but have no idea what is considered appropriate. I am certainly aware of the value of the information this site has given me. If anyone can suggest to me what is considered appropriate please message me. Any input will help.
You could come along to the Aussie Rally at Bellingen in a couple of weeks to discuss donation amounts
Darran
Pat that set up looks awesome. I had to think about the whole setup to visualize how it really works, how to have a tight swingarm, with no movemnet side to side, without friction causing the swingarm to bind. The bearing you are describing is similar to the bearing used on some shocks to make spring pre-load adjustment easier? Torrington I think? YZF 750? Hmm , reminds me I need to do some repairs to my FZ 750 as well. It never ends. There are other things that were done by PO. Blue dots, wave rotors, better brake master cylinder, corbin gunfighter. supertrapp stainless 4 into1, and a slightly higher windscreen.
Also I will post a few pics of my Givi trunk mount installation on the tail section of herr FJ.
Also to Steve, you are in no way annoying. I needed a subtle kick in the ass.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 16, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
Hey Johnnie, you may be in luck.
On my T-Ace swing arm conversions, under the grease cups, I used the Torrington needle bearings (thrust bearings) from the YZF750.
Check them out.
(http://www.fjmods.co.uk/Pictures/MarcRittner/3SwingarmPartsA.jpg)
3) SWING ARM PIVOT AREA – The swingarm pivot area needs to be narrowed in order to fit into the FJ frame. 'FJ Tom' Slocum told me that the Yamaha YZF750 used a 3-piece needle thrust bearing on its swingarm to handle side thrust loads. I thought that would be great on the FJ, as I could machine the pivot for minimum clearance but still have zero friction with no binding. These thrust bearings are composed of (2) 1mm hardened races, with a 2mm radial needle bearing sandwiched in between.
Discussed here: http://www.fjmods.co.uk/MarcRittner.htm (http://www.fjmods.co.uk/MarcRittner.htm) Cheers! Pat
This has been nagging at me for a few days now. While these bearings appear to be standard on some bikes I don't understand why you need them and what forces are applied to the swing arm that the inner bearings don't deal with.
The standard thrust washers are thin and soft and barely show a mark which would suggest they don't take any significant load.
Unless of course this is your corner entry style:
(http://blog.derestricted.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/stoner_drift_sepang.jpg)
Could someone please explain.
Noel
Noel, You asked for an explaination......
Well, that was the only way that Casey could get the Ducati through the corner. :-)
Shame Rossi couldn't learn how.
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on February 20, 2013, 08:00:52 AM
Noel, You asked for an explaination......
Well, that was the only way that Casey could get the Ducati through the corner. :-)
Shame Rossi couldn't learn how.
Arnie
(http://blog.derestricted.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/rossi+ducati_drift.jpg)
Quote from: ribbert on February 20, 2013, 08:15:25 AM
Quote from: Arnie on February 20, 2013, 08:00:52 AM
Shame Rossi couldn't learn how.
Arnie
(http://blog.derestricted.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/rossi+ducati_drift.jpg)
Look closely at the picture...
Ducati's, making mechanic's out of perfectly good riders since 1950.... Couldn't resist..... :sarcastic:
George
Don't forget, dry clutches saves lives.... :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: ribbert on February 20, 2013, 07:42:22 AM
This has been nagging at me for a few days now. While these bearings appear to be standard on some bikes I don't understand why you need them and what forces are applied to the swing arm that the inner bearings don't deal with.
The standard thrust washers are thin and soft and barely show a mark which would suggest they don't take any significant load.
Hey Noel, Do FJ's need the YZF750 thrust bearings?
Of course not, but, when cutting down the YZF1000 (Thunder Ace) swing arm, why the hell not include them? When I think of our heavy loaded FJ's in a right hand sweeper, I can envision where the left side thrust bearing would take *some* loads, and the opposite side on a left hand sweeper.
Remember we have heavy bikes, and carry passengers/luggage..and now many of us are running modern tires which grip better.
A well lubed washer under the dust cap would do the same thing as the needle bearings...no biggie.
No need for nagging thoughts on this subject....However, keep a eye on the big picture...I keep telling you... this moditis is some serious shit....
Cheers! Pat
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 20, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: ribbert on February 20, 2013, 07:42:22 AM
This has been nagging at me for a few days now. While these bearings appear to be standard on some bikes I don't understand why you need them and what forces are applied to the swing arm that the inner bearings don't deal with.
The standard thrust washers are thin and soft and barely show a mark which would suggest they don't take any significant load.
Hey Noel, Do FJ's need the YZF750 thrust bearings?
Of course not, but, when cutting down the YZF1000 (Thunder Ace) swing arm, why the hell not include them? When I think of our heavy loaded FJ's in a right hand sweeper, I can envision where the left side thrust bearing would take *some* loads, and the opposite side on a left hand sweeper.
Remember we have heavy bikes, and carry passengers/luggage..and now many of us are running modern tires which grip better.
A well lubed washer under the dust cap would do the same thing as the needle bearings...no biggie.
No need for nagging thoughts on this subject....However, keep a eye on the big picture...I keep telling you... this moditis is some serious shit....
Cheers! Pat
Pat, "Because I could" sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me.
Noel
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 20, 2013, 10:14:29 AM
Don't forget, dry clutches saves lives.... :biggrin: :biggrin:
Anybody happen to remember the link for that YouTube clip of the Firestorm with the tambourine "emulating" a dry clutch?
Arnie
Japanese Ducati - yes, they did it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KooABbX0lQA#) Is this it ?
George
When I removed the swingarm there were no bushings inside the dust seal. If I did not have a parts bike, to dismantle the swingarm from, I would not have even known there were supposed to be bushings in there. The real issue was of course the length of the collar (race) being so long the bushing could not be installed . With two bushings the swingarm would not fit within the frame. So removing three mm of bushing (race) allowed bushings and removed side to side movement. I made sure that there would be enough surface (of the race or bushing) left for the bearing to ride on. A torrington bearing would obviously help reduce friction under load of a sideways force. But since a motorcycle leans into a corner most of the load is directly on the bearings. Side to side is not that relevant. That is how I see it. Am I wrong?
Rossie's back on a Yamaha again :good2:! Hopefully it won't get to ugly with Lorenz :mad: :ireful: :empathy2:o.
Quote from: FJ12PD on February 21, 2013, 01:45:30 PM
Rossie's back on a Yamaha again :good2:! Hopefully it won't get to ugly with Lorenz :mad: :ireful: :empathy2:o.
Rossi is sure pumped to be back on a competitive bike again.....He my even sneak a few wins.... but i believe he knows Jorge is the man now and will probably be really happy just having a chance to get podium finishes in the dry.
KOokaloo!
proves beyond doubt that even a doctor cant fix a ducati..... chuckles.....
There is a motogp race in Austin TX in april :scratch_one-s_head: :scratch_one-s_head:I think. Anybody going? sorry for thread jack BTW. I must say the info on this forum is very helpfu :good2: :good2:l and it looks like you put it to good use. It is too bad the previous owner kind of did a hack job though :crazy:. Good job checking it over smart move :good: :good:.
To summarize the project to this point. I modified the clutch as per Randy's advice on the clutch files. He delivered all the goods. Thanks Randy. The new cover, pushrod, shift shaft etc. were installed. Safety check done, insurance on. Plates transferred from the FZR. Ready to ride? No the dang clutch slave cylinder started to leak. This is on a Tuesday and no one has one in stock. Most bike stores have nothing in inventory except stuff someone didn't pick up. So Paul Wagar express shipped me a spare and after that was fixed I was ready to go. Oops wait the friggen master cylinder starts to leak. After it was removed and cleaned it works fine.
Finally I could go for a ride. Well holy crap!! A standard FJ is an awesome bike but after all the mods? I have a mint condition low mileage FZR1000 with only 3000 k's on it so it rides nice, but I will take the FJZ1 any day. What a revelation. When guys spend hours and weeks modding their bikes, I now know why. I just had to use the word KOklaoo. My bike has blue dots.FZ1 master cylinder. Emulators. Wider FZR rim. Corbin seat. Penske shock. FZ1 swingarm, wheel and brake. Supertrapp stainless four into one. All these little things make a world of difference. I am absolutely going to do a complete bike following the mods here that have been tried. I am a convert. I have had 5 FJ1200's with zero mods. This is my first and it rocks.
Bwhaaaahaaahaaa the virus is spreading...... Johnnie's got it bad...... :wacko2:
The only cure is more cowbell, Pat!!!!!