Hi Everyone. Can somebody please explain to me a few things. I have a 6mth 88 build FJ 1200. I have read on numerous posts that people are putting on 17 inch front wheels. On mine its standard. Is this just for earlier models or what.? Also the changing of brake callipers , brake lines and front forks. Is this something I should be considering or not? Also I am after advice on the rear shock. I think mine might be looking for a change soon. I have been watching the forum posts on Randys unit. Is there also any others worth considering. Also tyres Whats good for a stock FJ with a 17 inch front wheel and 16 inch rear or is the rear wheel an item to change and if so why? REMEMBERING I LIVE IN MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA. Thanks everyone. I am still finding my way around the site and some of the forum posts are a great laugh. I cant make the FJ Rally this year unfortunately but all going well will be there next year. regards Jeff
Your lucky you live in Melb (lol never thort I would say that :lol: ) you have some great FJ moder's down there.
Seek local advice and all will be answered :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
Have you got any good starting points as to who to contact down here.?
paging Arnie and Noel, patient in room 6 (popcorn)
Quote from: FJSpringy on January 14, 2013, 03:32:53 AM
paging Arnie and Noel, patient in room 6 (popcorn)
Yes, I think I can help. I thought it may have been a case of Pink Strip disease or breaking out in red and white blotches but I see from the photo it's only a case of Black fever, quite treatable.
Hi Jeff.
The early model fj's had the 16" wheel with the anti dive fork setup.These are prime candidates for the 17" front end conversion for bigger brakes and better damping/handling.Yours has the 17" wheel already.You might want to look at a 17" rear wheel conversion.
Here's some light reading for ideas....
http://www.fjmods.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.co.uk/)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=12.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=12.0)
Cheers :drinks:
Jeff P
Quote from: Jeff0308 on January 14, 2013, 02:22:30 AM
Have you got any good starting points as to who to contact down here.?
Jeff, I am also in Melbourne (East Ivanhoe) and would be happy to catch up offer what help I can.
Being in Melbourne and a forum member and owning an FJ sounds like sufficient reason for a coffee meet somewhere and a deep and meaningful mod discussion.
Let me know what part of town you're in and when you are generally free and we'll organise something.
Arnie is only about an hour out of Melbourne, has an encyclopedic knowledge of the mighty FJ and is very generous with his advice and time.
To answer you tyre question, there are really no 16" tyres available now that are a safe match for the bike.
There will never be a concensus on the order or importance of mods here but if I had your bike I would do the 17"rear wheel and front brakes first. If you want to keep the cost down, later model 4 piston calipers, which someone would probably give you, EBC HH pads and new braided lines will give you 90% of the improvement you would expect from the full job, that is, Blue Dot calipers and adjustable 14mm m/c. These 2 improvements not only make the bike more enjoyable to ride but a lot safer.
I will expect to hear from you.
Noel
Hi Jeff,
I'll jump in here as well with a G'day and say hello.
More than happy to discuss what and why you'd want to modify your FJ.
Noel is probably giving me more credit than I deserve, but I do know a thing or two about FJs.
I'm pretty sure that with the change to a 17" front, Yamaha also put the 4 pot Aisin brakes on.
Still, the blue (or gold)-spot brakes from R1, R6, FJR, TDM, and a few others fits right on and does improve your braking. Probably more important would be to replace your OEM rubber brake lines with SSbraided lines and change to more aggressive pads.
Have to check, but I think Avon may still be selling a 16" radial rear tire.
If you change to a 17" rear you'll be spoiled for choice.
Most other mods are personal pref and depend on what you want to do with your bike.
Happy to join you and Noel for a coffee somewhere or a ride most any time.
Cheers,
Arnie
Feel free to call 0419 034 225
Oh, I'm about 20kms due west of Little River
Good Morning from the Pacific NorthWest, the land of cold and snow... When you get done using up all the good weather let us know and please send it back up here :)
First mod I would do is a spin on oil filter adapter. I am currently doing the 17 " rear wheel mod. so that's the only one I can speak about.
The rear tire selection for the 16" rim is limited. My tire will need to be replaced next spring anyhow so that's what motivated me into the modification.
The 180 or 170-60-17 tire looks a lot better and gives more patch area on the road. The tire selection is great. Beware that after that mod you will want to upgrade the front wheel, it happens my Friend. There are so many mods so I would just focus on one area at a time.
George
I can play in this game, I have one of the older common as weeds 86' that was 100% stock except for the Corbin seat. I first put on the RPM spin-on oil filter adapter. Then I installed an HID lamp in the front, like sun light shooting out. Then I put on a 92, 750 GSXR rear wheel 5.5" x 17" with underslung caliper and 180/55 tire. Now I have so many choices of brand and performance options my head spins (more than normal). Then during a West Coast Rally Randy installed an RPM fork brace to stiffen up my lousy stock front end. Then I started collecting all the bits to upgrade the front. It was the most costly as it required many more bits. Your front is 17" x 3", I put an FZR1000 88/89' 17" x 3.5" front on. After seeing a 120 tire on a 3" wide rim, then a 120 on a 3.5" wide rim, the 3" rim looks like it is pinching the tire a little. The profile of a 110 on a 3" looks the same as a 120 on a 3.5". You will have to decide that for your self. But to get the FZR rim on I upgraded to 89' FJ forks, RPM fork valves, 0.85 straight rate springs, Blue dot calipers, HH pads, braided lines, new brake master (still stock piston size) with adjustable lever, new bearings and Galfer like wave rotors.
After all the front end changes my FJ felt modern and the front was really well planted in the corners. For my shakedown run I took a road I normally avoid as the pavement is buckling in the corners, I was naturally cautious but was blow away by how the new front end absorbed the bumps without any complaints or harsh feedback. Without realizing it I was riding the road faster that I thought possible and felt comfortable. One work of caution if you make a major front end improvement. Be perpaired to upgrade the rear shock. Now with the front performing so well all I notice in corners is how crappy the rear end is. Can't wait till Randy releases his custom FJ rear shock. I already purchased an 89' rear suspension link to switch over to dog bones on my 86' so I can change the swing arm position and raise the rear a tad more.
If you want radials before you switch out your rear wheel then look for Avons, I ran the AV45/46 combo when I had 16" wheels. Pirelli Diablos are also a good choice but not radial. A few member here run them.
Enjoy your modification addiction.
Hi again everyone. Thanks heeps for the info. Changing the rear wheel? What model wheel? is that the only thing you change or is it the whole swing arm chain, sprockets and brake discs. Also going the bigger rear wheel means that the suspension travel will be reduced as well, so that issue also has to be addressed. Im sort of stuck as I have a few options now. Looks like Im going to have a bit of a wait as I just found out today that I cant get the trusty FJ747 registered with club reg til July as its 25yrs old in june.I tried to get around the system but failed dismally. Unless I go full reg. What a piss off. I dont really want to do that yet but am now thinking how impatient am I going to be. Yeah the trail bike is a quick fi but its REALLY doing my head in that I cant ride it yet. So my dillema is as it needs new tyres, (!) Do I make the change and if so whats involved? (2) What do I really want out of it ? A standard cruiser or ? (3) How much is it going to cost? (4) Do I just get it on the road to begin with, ride it for a bit and then consider all of the changes.That idea has merits but double handling with costs is not really a good option. The oil filter setup as well as the brake lines sounds like a worth while idea as well.Those seem to be a very common comments on the forum.. Is the brake lines a common problem or is it a wear and tear thing. Do the brake lines on there own have any significant change to the bike in anyway other than looks? Arnie and Noel. A coffee sounds great. What suits you both? Weekends? Week nights are a bit hard for me as I start work at 5am and I usually turn in early during the week up around 3.45 am. regards to all. jeff
Hi Jeff, the rear wheel change generally involves wheel, sprocket, caliper and disc and there are a number of wheels that fit or can easily be made to fit. There is a lot information here on that. The increase in wheel diameter is about the same as the reduction in tyre height so you end up with roughly the same OD. It is one of those jobs that can be overwhelming in anticipation but once done seems very simple. Trouble is, you only need to do it once.
My view is all bikes should have good tyres, regardless of how you ride. Many people think good tyres are only necessary if you ride hard and fast but good tyres do much more than just let you scrape the pegs. They are cheap insurance and there are some brilliant tyres out there.
The brake lines are suggested because they are 25 years old, rubber and considered at risk of leaking or bursting and I believe Yamaha originally recommended they be changed every 4 years anyway, although no one ever did and I've actually never heard of a failure. Safety aside, they swell under pressure giving a sponginess at the lever, the new braided lines give a much more solid feel.
I have found (too late for me) a mobile hose man in Melb. who does brake lines to the required standards and is President of the BSA M/C club so loves bikes. The advantage to that is getting the lengths spot on.
As far as what you want out of it, you will have to ride it and find out. Who knows, you might think you want a cruiser now but it might wake the devil in you when you ride it.
Will book a weekend coffee. What part of town are you in?
Noel
Have a quick look at the link in my signature Jeff, has a pictorial on my rear wheel change, theres some notes attached to each photo. But as Monkey says, yep, the Suzuk rear wheel change is certainly worth it. Front brake mod + stainless lines at least, even if you don't do the whole front wheel change, spin on filter kit from RPM http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=spinonfilteradapter&cat=39 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=spinonfilteradapter&cat=39) oil cooler mod also from RPM, theres a heap of very worthwhile things you can do.
But definatley catch up with Noel and Arnie, remember to take a tape recorder to harness the knowledge! :drinks:
Jeff,
17" wheel is SMALLER in diameter than the 16" wheel once you have a tire on it.
Most bike makers recommend replacing brake lines at 4 yrs old. If yours are original they are way past due to be replaced.
The SSbraided lines cost no more than the OEM rubber lines, but they don't swell with pressure so the brakes have a MUCH firmer feeling. IMO, they are the major source of improvement in braking.
I'll be glad to discuss rear wheel changes, (I started it) OR look in the archives on this list. To lazy to type it all out (again).
In my OPINION the spin-on oil filter mod is overrated by many here. I change my oil every 5,000kms and the filter every 10,000kms. I don't find the OEM cartridge filter that much hassle to deal with once or maybe twice a year.
As for coffee, send Noel (ribbert) and me a PM with a suggested time/place and include some idea of where you are located.
Cheers,
Arnie
For my rear wheel I used a 92' GSXR 750. Get the wheel and all the bits that are on the axle except the swing arm and chain. You wont need the axle but it holds all bits on for shipping. Get the brake caliper, caliper mount and link arm that secures it. Get them all from one bike, if you mix them you may have a hard time fitting them together as not all sellers are accurate in the years and models of their their parts. There are plenty of write ups for this mod. When you are serious, read up on them and start shopping.
The brake line issue is an age item, rubber brake lines are not recommended to last more than 5 years or so. If you lines are original then there is risk of them failing. Not a good thing to say the least. Also due to age and use the original lines will swell more than when new when under pressure. Making the brakes feel soft. Braided lines don't swell enough to feel and really improve the feel of braking.
My own post got me thinking as I was typing, why will rubber brake lines on a car do a million k's over thirty odd years and still be considered serviceable while the bike's have a scheduled replacement.
The bike's get a bit of UV but are better protected than car's.
Anyone want to venture and opinion?
Noel
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)
Here ya go. My GSXR Wheel Conversion. There are others that I used to do mine, but as I did my conversion, I took pics. This is for the 3CV and a 1990 GSXR wheel pack. As the monkey said, best to get all the parts from the same donor bike. Otherwise, you'll be playing with a lot of unknowns and end up looking like this:
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/630590784/lucy_van_pelt_drinking_glass.jpg?height=160&width=160&padToSquare=true)
On another note, someone here told me (Arnie?) that I was overthinking this mod. It really is not that difficult.
CraigO
Noel,
As to automotive brake lines vs bike brake lines, I don't know what the difference is. However, there sure is a lot more risk involved if you bike's brake line fails vs the cars. I have seen cars brake lines fail and they do give some warning that not all is well with the brakes. The bike, not so much. And the last thing you want is a ruptured brake line while braking hard.
I seem to remember reading someone's post here where their brakelines failed. It didn't end well...
CraigO
I thought most cars only had rubber brake lines at the wheel end/s only, with copper , stainless , ect going from the mc to the wheel area
Quote from: ribbert on January 15, 2013, 08:50:31 AM
My own post got me thinking as I was typing, why will rubber brake lines on a car do a million k's over thirty odd years and still be considered serviceable while the bike's have a scheduled replacement.
The bike's get a bit of UV but are better protected than car's.
Anyone want to venture and opinion?
Noel
Sure, cars made in the US after 1957 have a dual master cylinder system. The floor pedal activates 2 master cylinders. One master cylinder activates the right front wheel and left rear wheel, and the other master cylinder activates the opposite left front and right rear wheels.
Failure happens in cars where the rubber lines split, just as on motorcycles, however the loss of line pressure will only affect 1/2 of the system (2 wheels) you will still have brake line pressure in one front wheel and one rear wheel.
We know on motorcycles, ~80% of our stopping power comes from our front brakes. We know that (most often) the rubber line failures, splits, happen where the rubber line is connected to the banjo fitting.
So lets count the potential failure points on a early FJ with anti dive forks...
What do you get? 11 potential failure points? Any split will cause loss of pressure on a front brake system that supplies 80% of your braking power?
So the question posed: What's wrong with 25 year old rubber lines? My answer is: Are you feeling lucky today?
Clever system for cars, even back then ,, anti dive was one of the first things I replaced completely , with 89 forks :biggrin:,, and ss brake lines, , the 88 rubber brake lines were that bad they were almost crunchy , Oi had even taped them up as the rubber was splitting :shok: , now has newish xjr lines for now,,
might be a dumb question but what exactly is the antidrive is that the things on the bottom of the forks and also most cars are diagonoly split some are front rear and cars much like bikes the front do 75% ish of the braking , ads copper should never be used as brake lines seeing how the run over 300psi and over 2000psi on abs cars (just my 2 cents)
You may have a question or three in that amazing run-on sentence. Want to try re-writing it in standard english (or american) ?
Arnie
Quote from: moonrunnah on January 15, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
might be a dumb question but what exactly is the antidrive is that the things on the bottom of the forks and also most cars are diagonoly split some are front rear and cars much like bikes the front do 75% ish of the braking , ads copper should never be used as brake lines seeing how the run over 300psi and over 2000psi on abs cars (just my 2 cents)
Quote from: Arnie on January 15, 2013, 05:29:49 PM
You may have a question or three in that amazing run-on sentence. Want to try re-writing it in standard english (or american) ?
Arnie
Quote from: moonrunnah on January 15, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
might be a dumb question but what exactly is the antidrive is that the things on the bottom of the forks and also most cars are diagonoly split some are front rear and cars much like bikes the front do 75% ish of the braking , ads copper should never be used as brake lines seeing how the run over 300psi and over 2000psi on abs cars (just my 2 cents)
never been good in english
what is an anitdrive system......how does it work
The Anti-Dive was on 84 to 87 years and many claim it never worked. It was an attempt to restrict fork dive by using pressure in the brake lines to affect a valve that controls fork oil flow. They add weight and only looked cool in 84 because it was new technology. It can be bypassed a few different ways.
how can i bypass it i dont think it works because under hard braking it still dives a lot
Moonrunnah asked, "what is an anitdrive system......how does it work? "
An anti-dive system is intended to increase the damping and/or spring rate of the forks when you are braking. This is intended to keep the bike on a more even keel and prevent the steering head angle and trail from changing when you brake, which does change handling characteristics. Several anti-dive systems were used by racing bikes and the Yam system looked like them.
The system Yamaha put on the early FJs restricted the flow of fork oil in the forks when there was pressure in the brake system. It was supposed to allow soft(ish) fork action at most times while maintaining handling while braking.
It never did much. This is probably due to Yamaha not wanting to upset IN-expert riders with drastic changes in fork feel.
(read possible lawsuits and liability)
Removing the Yam system and replacing with blanking plates is no real loss. It also allows you to use 2 or 3 brake lines instead of 5. This saves you $$ on brake lines while getting more feedback at the lever.
Arnie
thank you arnie
where would i get these blocking plates or do i need to make them
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 15, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
So the question posed: What's wrong with 25 year old rubber lines? My answer is: Are you feeling lucky today?
A little Dirty Harry going on there, I like it Pat.... Did I fire 5 shots or 6?
Quote from: fj11.5 on January 15, 2013, 02:34:30 PM
I thought most cars only had rubber brake lines at the wheel end/s only, with copper , stainless , ect going from the mc to the wheel area
They do, between the front rail and the wheel, that's the bit I was referring to.
On the front as mentioned it's well worth running a separate line from the master to each calliper, simpler and IMHO a nicer level of feedback.
Oem brake lines black and boring , Braided lines shiney :drinks:
Well.....im back again. Read all the posts. Having had 3 of these FJs......My last one was 10 years ago before now.,,,,.... My other FJs were bog stock all the way to the exhaust system. I am cringing at the thought as to how much all this will cost. I have not had the pleasure of getting on this FJ and giving it a run as its not registered and knowing my luck I will take it out for a blast and I will get my chops busted big time. The only way is to get a permit. Having said all that I lied. I have given it a run or rather got given a taste of it during a real quick trip around the block. 2km. (1.5 miles.) Scared the buggery out of myself . Forgot how quick they are . This bike has been a highway bike all its life. Its trip around the block from the previous owner of 12 years was average of 200km(120)miles. I wanted to take it out again but just before I did my wife and I were on a walk around the block and who idled past. HIGHWAY PATROL. literally idled past. Needless to say I gave the idea away, Unregistered fine is $700 plus $249 for unroadworthy so I got to give it serious thought.............NO...Anyway I think the spring is a bit sad but I need to investigate it a bit. I am only going on feel. Bit bouncy.The bike is very tidy but just needs a serious going over. I rang a few places for prices and one guy who recos bike bits( SUSPENSION rebuilds them, he quoted me $980 for spring, shocker front forks full rebuild and a few other bits including labour which I thought was quite reasonable. I enquired as to if he heard about the wheel upgrade,brakes etc as he said he had the same model bike a few tears ago, Hadnt heard of the wheel but has the rest. Did strongly advise of the brake lines to. . Basically its a personal choice as was mentioned to me in the forum. Now the only thing stopping all this...........money..........The other is I have to consider the STOCK look or TO MODIFY it. I think I will wait till Ive met up with some of the guys. By the way Arnie and Noel. I live in Hampton Park. Near Dandenong. Anybody who wishes to join for a coffee is more than welcome. Where is the best spot to meet up? regards jeff
Is the speedo run off the front wheel or gearbox.?
Speedo has a drive on the front wheel