Come to order a HID kit, but a little bit of reading has indicated it won't strictly pass the MOT yearly inspection!! And is technically speaking a bit 'sick buzzard' (ill eagle) Had the wind knocked out of my sails as was gonna do it whilst forks are out to put in Randys valves which have arrived!
Not sure if I should wing it and take the chance or go another way (ie the relay mod?). How much benefit will the relay mod give? Any other people from UK got experiences of HID upgrades on their FJ or even other bikes. How did you get in with MOTs etc?
Any thoughts?
Not sure how much they check on the bike for the MOT. My HID system allows me to unplug the OEM socket from the HID system, remove the HID light, put a standard H4 bulb in and it looks stock again. Just as easy to switch back. Tough to do with the horn in place but easy with the horn lose. But the HID system is still on the bike. If they look for it they will see it. Not sure if that would pass or not.
Quote from: nurse on November 09, 2012, 05:16:30 PM
Come to order a HID kit, but a little bit of reading has indicated it won't strictly pass the MOT yearly inspection!! And is technically speaking a bit 'sick buzzard' (ill eagle) Had the wind knocked out of my sails as was gonna do it whilst forks are out to put in Randys valves which have arrived!
Not sure if I should wing it and take the chance or go another way (ie the relay mod?). How much benefit will the relay mod give? Any other people from UK got experiences of HID upgrades on their FJ or even other bikes. How did you get in with MOTs etc?
Any thoughts?
I did the relay mod, it's worth the effort.
i personally run the stock bulb with the relay mod and use HID driving lights on an independant switch... in heavy traffic i can turn them off to keep from blinding the cagers and when i get back into the open areas i can light up the night as required.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_1110.jpg)
KOokaloo!
Frank
Having done a bit more reading the main issue appears to be more about the spread of the light pattern affecting oncoming traffic. It doesn't appear to be such a concern with later bikes with projector style lamps/reflectors. The main problem seems to be around older style reflectors causing glare!
In the UK part of the MOT uses a light box gizmo to measure strength and spread/pattern of light, if I can get an idea of how folks using the HID have found it maybe I can gauge if I will get away with it. Further reading indicates that the rules around HID retro fits are for cars and simply 'applied' to motorcycles but the wording seems to indicate that there is 'wiggle' room for the testers to use their discretion providing they do not consider it to cause distraction or impedance of oncoming drivers.
So I guess I need to know your experience of pattern & shape and any issues around glare. The glare might be tricky as Its a bit subjective and i don't imagine too many of you have had your own bike coming towards you in the dark!!
Truckers don't like HID, and have started to campaign against them, due to the glare hitting them smack in the eyes whilst driving.
And me personally, even though i only drive a 7 and a half tonne truck at work, find them very annoying for the same reason, and also when i'm driving my Tranny van the glare gets right up there.
I think they should be banned in all types of vehicles, even if fitted as standard. Nasty things. :bomb:
As a truck driver here in Canada I don't have a problem with HID lights. I think that they far superior to standard bulbs. Even better are the new LED lights. They don't draw hardly any current and are very bright. The only draw abck to them is the cost, about 300per side for the small square lights. I think that the people that are using them over there don't have properly adjusted if they shining that high. I am going to do the relay mod and install a HID bulb in my 86 this winter
Well given that most British truckers are in fact polish and are about the worst drivers in the world, I am sold!
I'm sure a lot of truckers in the UK are good drivers but there are a huge number that are arseholes. Driving too fast in built up areas, tailgating cars in front only 6 ft away, rolling on to roundabouts without stopping whilst there are vehicles that haven't yet completed their manoeuvre and left the junction (a pet hate of mine). So anything that slows them up a bit and makes them pay attention is fine by me. I may feel differently if they were all faultless and blameless!
The irony is that there are a number of new trucks with HID fitted from new (I guess these are not retro fits so don't have the same issues of Misaligned beam spread!)
Quote from: big r on November 10, 2012, 07:46:58 AM
. I am going to do the relay mod and install a HID bulb in my 86 this winter
As I understand it if you install HIDs you don't need the relay mod!?!
Someone Feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!
Quote from: nurse on November 10, 2012, 08:00:58 AM
As I understand it if you install HIDs you don't need the relay mod!?!
Someone Feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!
The DDM HID connects direct to the battery, no need to add a relay. I think other kits are similar.
The further I read the less convinced I am that a HID will be alright in this old style assembly, almost all the bikes i read about seem to run a projector style lamp which means the light is thrown forward with less spread!
If I go the relay route can anyone recommend a good bright bulb? Looking for a clean white colour if possible!
What's the highest wattage you can safely run after the relay mod?
Don't suppose Randy stocks this relay mod as a 'wiring harness' making plug n play so to speak?
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 09:51:32 AM
The further I read the less convinced I am that a HID will be alright in this old style assembly, almost all the bikes i read about seem to run a projector style lamp which means the light is thrown forward with less spread!
If I go the relay route can anyone recommend a good bright bulb? Looking for a clean white colour if possible!
What's the highest wattage you can safely run after the relay mod?
Don't suppose Randy stocks this relay mod as a 'wiring harness' making plug n play so to speak?
Not sure if Randy stocks one or not, but I used this one several years ago,and like it a lot:
http://www.electricalconnection.com/wire-harnesses/hrns_headlight.htm (http://www.electricalconnection.com/wire-harnesses/hrns_headlight.htm)
I've been using Sylvania Silverstar bulbs, but I'm looking for something better, as the failure rate is too high to suit me.
Nurse,
Here ya go. Eastern Beaver has plug and play relay kits.
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Products/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html (http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Products/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html)
I would suggest you see how much brighter the stock 60/55W H4 is with full power getting to it before you start changing bulbs.
If you're going to use high wattage bulbs get the ceramic socket (or find a Hella dealer to buy one from)
80/55W and 100/55W H4 bulbs are available BUT there have been reports of the reflector surface flaking off with the extra heat. I don't know if this is verified or just "urban myth", I used a 80/55 for quite a while with no reflector problems, but I did melt the socket. Then I put relays in, and went back to 60/55W globe.
Arnie
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 09:51:32 AM
The further I read the less convinced I am that a HID will be alright in this old style assembly, almost all the bikes i read about seem to run a projector style lamp which means the light is thrown forward with less spread!
That is what I like about my HID. A lot more light coming out the front. I rarely ride at night in traffic, a few times I was stuck in the hills in the dark with only my dark visor. The HID light up everything making my trip home much safer. I can see your issue with HID if you commute and are concerned about annoying other drivers. With the little that I ride at night I would rather be seen and annoying than polite and blind. When searching for H4 bulbs look for a K rating, like 4500K. It is the color temperature in Kelvin. The 4500 to 5500 looks really White, go higher and the color starts to turn Bluish. Go lower and it gets more Yellow. Another issue to consider is when you get Whiter the bulb tends to have a shorter life. Carry a spare.
(http://www.bravolight.com/images/color_temp.gif)
Cheers Monkey!
I don't commute but as our clocks have gone back it now gets dark by 4pm! So any extra light is very welcome
I really want to put in a HID but don't want it to fail its MOT and be a waste of cash! I am going to have a chat with the guy tomorrow that will be doing the test to see how likely it would be to fail. I may even get him to fit it (that way he knows it will be down to him if it doesn't go through!).
Cheers guys (arnie and lib) I'm gonna have a good look through these options and weigh up the pros and cons before jumping in.
I`ve got 2 bikes with HID and am not happy with the reliability. Often come home of a daytime to discover there not working, so I don`t trust`em of a night at all. (Spread tends to be a bit wide but lighting is generally brilliant -when working) I can sometimes get the light to work temporarily by switching ignition off, then when I turn it back on some seconds later, provided I switch the ignition on with a quick action, it works again. Under "Troubleshooting", one company described intermittencey as a result of voltage drop which I suspect most older bikes have - hence the improvement with the relay Mod. But suspect I also have the cheapies as mentioned here. -
Now you can have HID Xenon technology on your bike
All our motorycle HID kits (including this "standard" kit) utilize digital, AC slimline ballasts. It is important to understand the different between DC (Direct Current) and AC (Alternating Current) when it comes to H.I.D. ballasts. The purpose of the ballast is to take the 12volts DC from your battery, and step it up to 23,000 volts to initially "fire" the bulb. Once the bulb is going, the voltage is regulated around 80volts, but here is the difference...
...DC ballasts output the current like your bike battery - in one direction only. They are cheaper to manufacturer (than AC ballasts) and they don't last as long (usually they die in less than a year, and you're unlikely to find a genuine manufactur's warranty for 12 months or more. We have seen some manufacturers in China only offering 30 days warranty on their cheap crap!! Don't forget eBay sellers only need the product to work for 2 months, after which time you cannot leave (or change) the feedback score you leave them.
Using a DC ballast will shorten the lifespan of your bulb, and will also cause the "flickering" you read some people complaining about. The flickering may be OK to put up with if you're on a bike that already has vibration, but it will drive you nuts on a car.
For the reason we don't sell, nor recommend using DC ballast HID kits. If you go to all that trouble of install a HID kit on your bike (or paying someone to do so) why do you want to have to pull it apart again a few months down the track?
AC ballasts, like the 240 volts in your home, alternate the current through the HID bulb in both directions. That is why HID bulbs do not have a "positive" and "negetive" plug. AC ballasts are more expensive to manufacture, last longer and are the type used in factory (OEM) installed HID headlights in cars.
This kit, like all our HID kits, use AC ballasts.
The globes are available in colours ranging from 4300k to 8,000k (although we only recommend 4300k to 6000k, since over 6000k (blue lights) are illegal to use on-road).
UV-CUT Bulbs (original Philips quartz glass) means they won't discolour your bike lens, and make them go a milky / yellow colour. They are also safer for your eyes being UV filtered.
Electrode & Molybdenum from Sweden - which means high quality components result in a defective rate less than 0.5% in the bulbs
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 10:49:21 AM
Cheers Monkey!
I don't commute but as our clocks have gone back it now gets dark by 4pm! So any extra light is very welcome
I really want to put in a HID but don't want it to fail its MOT and be a waste of cash! I am going to have a chat with the guy tomorrow that will be doing the test to see how likely it would be to fail. I may even get him to fit it (that way he knows it will be down to him if it doesn't go through!).
Cheers guys (arnie and lib) I'm gonna have a good look through these options and weigh up the pros and cons before jumping in.
You only need to ask if you will fail the MOT if you have the HID system installed. You can have a regular bulb in the headlamp during the MOT inspection. Then after you get your MOT cert, put the HID bulb in till next year. I can switch mine out in less than 10 minutes, that includes getting the ratchet to drop the horn.
Here is the post when I put my DDM kit in.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2674.msg58950#msg58950 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2674.msg58950#msg58950)
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 09:51:32 AM
Don't suppose Randy stocks this relay mod as a 'wiring harness' making plug n play so to speak?
I will tomorrow.
I will get a relay and the correct wiring plug for the relay. You will just have to run a wire to the battery and then the head light, and the wire for the headlight will hook to the signal wire and the other side will be grounded.
I will post the link once i have them listed on the website.
Randy - RPM
Crickey now I'm spoilt for choice!!
Randy would it come with the ceramic bulb holder/plug or would that needed to be sourced separately?
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 02:05:36 PM
Crickey now I'm spoilt for choice!!
Randy would it come with the ceramic bulb holder/plug or would that needed to be sourced separately?
No, it will be just the relay and plug. The bulb will still use the factory holder
The relay is just installed to act as a switch for the full 12v power from the battery to the headlight bulb.
Randy - RPM
Gotcha!!
Great job, thanks for the help! As soon as I work out which road to take I will be in touch.
Your website doesnt have HID kits i guess they are not your 'cup of tea'!!
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 02:05:36 PM
Crickey now I'm spoilt for choice!!
Randy would it come with the ceramic bulb holder/plug or would that needed to be sourced separately?
i highly recommend a ceramic headlamp wiring connector if you plan on using higher than stock wattage bulbs....
a 90/100 will melt the stock connector into a blob.
KOokaloo!
Quote from: nurse on November 11, 2012, 02:22:56 PM
Your website doesnt have HID kits i guess they are not your 'cup of tea'!!
No, there is a vendor that was trying to bring them into stock. He was testing the durability, but I have not been able to get an update for quiet sometime.
Hopefully sooner than later...
Randy - RPM
Guys I don't know about the FJ but on my FJR I've plugged my HID kit straight into the original wire harness where the standard ligh goes and have no difficulty, the lights are great and light up the road, don't have people flashing me to say my lights are too high, you may have to adjust your headlight.
The other thing about the HID kit is the amount of power they DON"T use compared to the Standard bulb
Standard bulb- 55w/60w = 115w
perfomance -90W/100W = 190w
HID = 35w/35w = 70W which equals less power being sucked out of the system...... equals brighter lights see more been SEEN by more
Baldy
Had a chat with the MOT guy and he says that he never had a HID retrofit come in for testing :unknown: (wink wink nudge nudge), he also said that lots of bike headlights seem to get brighter the older they get (strange phenomenom he reckons!!) and they all pass their MOTs fine. He reckons even if he did come across one which is never ever likly to happen :rofl: he said he would be sure it would be fine!
So thats one bit of good news! :yahoo:
Its a bit like those builders you have in that never find bats nesting in your loft/attic (bats are a protected species in the UK and if disturbed will land you in court with hug fines etc!!).
Now i just need to choose which road to go down, the 'well illuminated' route (relay mod) or the 'say goodbye to your retinas' route (HID).
Quote from: nurse on November 12, 2012, 08:16:50 AM
Now i just need to choose which road to go down, the 'well illuminated' route (relay mod) or the 'say goodbye to your retinas' route (HID).
If it burns
your retinas, you're using it all wrong. :biggrin:
Maybe this will help with the legal side for the UK..
http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/tp/hid-kits-new-legislation-2012/ (http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/tp/hid-kits-new-legislation-2012/)
John.
Quote from: John Hopkins on November 12, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
Maybe this will help with the legal side for the UK..
http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/tp/hid-kits-new-legislation-2012/ (http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/tp/hid-kits-new-legislation-2012/)
John.
Yeah I read all that on the DOT website. However much
Of this applies to cars not specifically bikes, although the under lying principles still remain. Until yesterday afternoon I had completely forgotten that my neighbour who is a very quiet but pleasant enough chap works for VOSA (the department that ensures and enforces MOT standards by spot checks and road side inspections). As a lead inspector he is as good as it gets in my eyes (he also rides - a firestorm but don't hold that against him!!). He told me tonight that in his opinion as long as the beam is set up correctly and the beam does not cause glare or distraction to oncoming vehicle then it will not be a problem!
So that's 2 yes's in 24hrs from 2 different people who should know!
I'd would call that a result and a green light! Or white with the smallest hint of blue in this case!!
Better make sure I point them the right way, don't want to burn out my retinas!
Quote from: baldy3853 on November 12, 2012, 12:14:49 AM
Guys I don't know about the FJ but on my FJR I've plugged my HID kit straight into the original wire harness where the standard ligh goes and have no difficulty, the lights are great and light up the road, don't have people flashing me to say my lights are too high, you may have to adjust your headlight.
The other thing about the HID kit is the amount of power they DON"T use compared to the Standard bulb
Standard bulb- 55w/60w = 115w
perfomance -90W/100W = 190w
HID = 35w/35w = 70W which equals less power being sucked out of the system...... equals brighter lights see more been SEEN by more
Baldy
It doesn't work that way..... You are only using one filament at a time, so it would be one or the other. The power figures do NOT add...
55W/60W=60W max
90W/100W= 100W max, etc.
Quote from: RichBaker on November 12, 2012, 08:23:47 PM
It doesn't work that way..... You are only using one filament at a time, so it would be one or the other. The power figures do NOT add...
55W/60W=60W max
90W/100W= 100W max, etc.
What he said.
Quote from: RichBaker on November 12, 2012, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: baldy3853 on November 12, 2012, 12:14:49 AM
Guys I don't know about the FJ but on my FJR I've plugged my HID kit straight into the original wire harness where the standard ligh goes and have no difficulty, the lights are great and light up the road, don't have people flashing me to say my lights are too high, you may have to adjust your headlight.
The other thing about the HID kit is the amount of power they DON"T use compared to the Standard bulb
Standard bulb- 55w/60w = 115w
perfomance -90W/100W = 190w
HID = 35w/35w = 70W which equals less power being sucked out of the system...... equals brighter lights see more been SEEN by more
Baldy
It doesn't work that way..... You are only using one filament at a time, so it would be one or the other. The power figures do NOT add...
55W/60W=60W max
90W/100W= 100W max, etc.
OOPs my maths is out the FJR runs 2 lights up front
55 x 2 = 110...... 35 x 2 = 70
60 x 2 = 120...... 35 x 2 = 70
90 x 2 = 180...... 35 x 2 = 70
100 x 2 = 200 ... 35 x 2 = 70
HID less power sucked out of the bike more available for othe electronic gysmos
baldy
Sorry I was a day late, yesterday was a holiday...
I have added the relay and connector pigtail to inventory.
Relay, 30amp (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=5PinRelay)
Connector, Relay (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RelaySocket)
Randy - RPM
my vans...
(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313563_10150403022220827_1390610822_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385034_10150403022780827_506482002_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294265_10150288427335827_5012901_n.jpg)
someone who hates HID's is someone that hasnt had HID's
Quote from: baldy3853 on November 13, 2012, 07:34:32 AM
Quote from: RichBaker on November 12, 2012, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: baldy3853 on November 12, 2012, 12:14:49 AM
Guys I don't know about the FJ but on my FJR I've plugged my HID kit straight into the original wire harness where the standard ligh goes and have no difficulty, the lights are great and light up the road, don't have people flashing me to say my lights are too high, you may have to adjust your headlight.
The other thing about the HID kit is the amount of power they DON"T use compared to the Standard bulb
Standard bulb- 55w/60w = 115w
perfomance -90W/100W = 190w
HID = 35w/35w = 70W which equals less power being sucked out of the system...... equals brighter lights see more been SEEN by more
Baldy
It doesn't work that way..... You are only using one filament at a time, so it would be one or the other. The power figures do NOT add...
55W/60W=60W max
90W/100W= 100W max, etc.
OOPs my maths is out the FJR runs 2 lights up front
55 x 2 = 110...... 35 x 2 = 70
60 x 2 = 120...... 35 x 2 = 70
90 x 2 = 180...... 35 x 2 = 70
100 x 2 = 200 ... 35 x 2 = 70
HID less power sucked out of the bike more available for othe electronic gysmos
baldy
OK.... with 2 lamps, they would add......
Hid lights are awesome, , I'm so impressed will be fitting a twin set up , but keeping the single headlight unit , just twin hid in the shell , hopefully I won't melt everything :biggrin: , , will post pics once fitted ,,
I fitted a HID bulb in my FJ12 back in 2009 and it passed two MOTs that way, I even pointed out to the MOT bloke that it was a HID - he wasn't interested in the bulb type as long as the beam spread is legal.
On night rides in the countryside my mates would make me ride in front so they could see :i_am_so_happy:
Sadly, the bulb went this summer so I slipped the old H4 bulb back in just to get me home.
Quote from: Lamric on November 17, 2012, 05:38:56 AM
I fitted a HID bulb in my FJ12 back in 2009 and it passed two MOTs that way, I even pointed out to the MOT bloke that it was a HID - he wasn't interested in the bulb type as long as the beam spread is legal.
On night rides in the countryside my mates would make me ride in front so they could see :i_am_so_happy:
Sadly, the bulb went this summer so I slipped the old H4 bulb back in just to get me home.
Welcome Lamric to the FJowner's club. The HID on my FJ at night is just like having the Sun shooting out front and lighting the way home. After my FJ got HID, my truck got them soon after. Now my wife is tired of the weak ass standard H4 bulbs in her vehicle. One more HID convert...
Well finally made my mind up, went with this one in the end. The uk market seem to be full of kits that vary wildly in both quality and price! I was very tempted to go with the DDM kit as it seem to be the only one that has consistant positive feedback, but they dont honour warranties abroad, and i will get stung for import duties and UK sales tax. So i had to gamble on something from the UK. I even emailed them and offered to distibute in the UK for them, but they are not interested!
So this is what i settled on:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW-/170572956337?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item27b6f0c2b1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW-/170572956337?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item27b6f0c2b1)
I have that same kit and it seemed ok while I had it fitted, only took it off as I had electrical problems (turned out to be a duff battery!!) Will be refitting it for next year.