FJowners.com

Just yesterday I was contacted privately by two LONG time FJers - independently of each other I might add - about the posting of eBay links all over the forum.  It was about no one in particular, just the general practice.  For many, many years over on the Yahoo group there was A LOT of respect for each other bidding and publicizing eBay auctions.  There was even a file somewhere in the files section where you could put up your eBay handle (this was before the recent eBay practice of hiding the bidders handles) - so that when someone saw that another member was already bidding on a part - they would know not to bid and back off.  It was kind of a respect thing.  Many of these guys have automated searches set-up for hard to find parts they are looking for - and eBay e-mails them when they pop up.  Apparently some of these guys have been getting snubbed lately because certain links for auctions have been made public here and the price was jacked up pretty high.

So anyway - I was asked my opinion on the whole thing - should I make a policy etc.  I thought about it overnight and was going to post a topic on it this morning.  So when I checked in this morning and saw another random eBay posting by threejagsteve - that is where I impulsively made my comment.
This is it here: http://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=773.0 (http://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=773.0)

I don't want to make rules, policy's, etc.  We have freedom of speech here dammit!  I just wanted to say essentially that hey, chill out a bit - we all know about eBay - posting shitloads of links here is not rocket science - and again - ultimately detrimental to the person you are trying to help.  That's all.  All of the above makes sense to me.  However, I personally am not impacted by this - I rarely buy off of eBay.  But, I suppose I too would get a little pissed off if I found some cool FZR wheel or something that the seller didn't categorize very well and I thought I was going to score on it - and then had the auction publicly released to the whole forum.  FWIW.

Anyway, please chime in with your thoughts on the whole subject.  By no means let me have the last say on this topic.  I hope to start a discussion on this topic where we can see the general consensus of the board.  Maybe I'll make a Poll too!

Easy.

Put a sticky up.  "Shit for sale, third parties"--meaning, the poster saw the ad but isn't involved with the seller.  Could be links to Ebay, Craigslist, etc etc...

Or, and I like this better, make a rule: no posting of that sort of crap EXCEPT in reponse to someone's post in the "looking for a <xxxxx>", an ok reply would be hey, I've got one on ebay atm, link.

I have to admit that I have posted Ebay links with the pure intent of helping a fellow club member out. I buy from Ebay once in a while and have never sold. I did not even think of the potential impact of starting a bidding war between club members. That would have the opposit effect of helping. I would be pissed if I missed an item I needed, or paid more than I would have. Members activaly looking will likely find the offers on the various sights with little outside help, posting them to others not activly looking would potentially have an impulse effect. I voted to allow a PM of the links, I can still help others without flooding the club pages with links.   :blush:

This is a tough one.  :scratch_one-s_head: I am one of those who post ebay links.  I do it to help a member who is looking for a part.  I assumed that not everyone is on ebay like I am, and I might be able to help.  But Marsh has a huge point that I had not thought about.  And I think that it should be thought about a lot.
   
    On one hand, a new member, or some one who is not on the web a lot might find it helpful to see links in the Forum.  Or some one like me who is not fully conversant in the mod area, like what wheel fits for upgrades etc.  And I believe in the full exchange of information.  

    On the other hand, I fully understand the frustration of thinking you have found a deal, only to have a bunch of bidders hop on and bid it up, or my favorite, sniping. :mad:

     After reading Marsh's reasoning, I think that I would fall on the side of not posting individual ebay auctions.  I think that emailing or pm to the searching member would be the proper thing to do.  I also don't like hard and fast rules, as people tend to get very petty on forums, like adult tattle tales, or like some at town halls.  

     I vote for a strong suggestion about not posting ebay links in the main post area, if some one is dense, a moderator can privately take a member to the wood shed.  Marsh, thank you and the members who contacted you about this.  Again as one who did this, I never thought about it in this way. I will stop doing this no matter how this turns out.  

             Murray, Ironically an eBay power seller :crazy:

I definitely agree about keeping the posting of ebay bids to a minimum.  This is also an issue on the coffee-espresso forums I belong to and over there there's basically been a consensus that it should only be posted if you are personally involved in the listing of it.  More importantly you would give the folks on the forum the option of first refusal before listing it on Ebay.  I just noticed the listing this morning and am watching it.   But every time a listing on the coffee forums gets put on blast the irrational exuberance seems to take folks for a ride.   That does not help out bidders who have sense and are looking for a good deal.   I am looking for a replacement for my saddle, and while I have no problems paying for a new Corbin or even a custom saddle (at twice that)  I'd be a fool to not consider a used saddle in good shape for a good price.   But I would also be a fool to take a ride on the bidding war express and end up paying 70, 80 or 90% what a new one would cost.  And while I can appreciate folks who are looking out for others (I honestly can, and cheers for the thought) I hope that people can take the long view and understand that posting links increases traffic for the item, which 9 out of 10 times increases the price of the item, therefore actually hurting bidders.  The only ones who benefit from this are Ebay and the sellers.  Ebay needs no help making money and as an occasional seller myself I'm glad to take a hit if I get what I want out of the item.  That's what reserve pricing is for.  Just my 2 Drachma.

                                             Cheers,

                                                   Dennis

Post away, but not in a general section. That is just annoying....

Marsh,

I empathise with your situation.  You could always have a new section that just coveres eBay or third party ads such as craigslist.  This would let your members know just exactly what they were looking at from the get go.  I am totally sympathetic with those who do not want everyone and their sister to know what is available for sale and wanting to keep it to themselves.  But, the bottom line is, a particular item will only bring market value.  You don't have to pay anymore money for something than you are willing to spend, and I have been around long enough to know something else will come up in the future and most of the time for less than you were expecting to pay.  Has something to do with the ebb and flow of life.   :good2:

I personally think most members are trying to look out for one another.  And the truth of the matter is, not everybody knows about eBay.  I'll admit it has come a long ways, but to assume everyone is aware of that you can get FJ parts on eBay would just be wrong.  That would be like assuming everyone understands that there are particles smaller than quarks.  :shok:

You know my opinion, "It is your sandbox, I am just here to have some fun".  Hell, I'll just play in the corner if you will let me.  :wacko3:

It is a great site, and I am sure this will be a non issue in the future.

Later........   :bye2:

I too have mixed emotions here.  I recently posted an ebay item that was generally available, not FJ parts, and  I thought it was service to anyone that was interested.  But OTOH, I'd be a little annoyed to lose a part I've been pining for for a long time.  So what to do?  Perhaps a gentleman's agreement that we're not going to bid against each other?  Would that work?  The only way to do that might be to 'claim' an item that you're bidding on?  Would this work?

Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

I've been both a buyer and a seller (mostly Jag stuff) on eBay. Nearly 1000 positives and never a negative. I could tell stories... ;)

Both Jags and FJs have a continuing market on eBay for good used parts and occasional tasty bits that are extremely hard to find, so I think I speak from related experience.

I'm currently spending about an hour a day on eBay looking at FJ stuff alone. Many people, I'm sure, don't have the time to do that.

I'm not really looking for anything in particular (except for the "right" set of wheels). But I'm trying to get a sense of the market - what is a "good" price and what is "too high" for this and that. And I know that bargains get snapped up quickly, particularly these days with the prevalence of Buy It Now listings, and there are a few items I'd jump on if the price was right.

And while I understand prospective buyers' desire to get the lowest price, I've also felt the chagrin of having missed a once-in-a-lifetime bargain because I didn't know about it until too late.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I rather had the feeling that most around here pretty much already had their bikes the way they wanted 'em and wouldn't be bidding on stuff they didn't want. In other words, competition would rarely be an issue.

There are merits to both sides, but my inclination is that "Knowledge is power." While I wouldn't want to see endless postings of listings for brake pads and bike covers, I don't see any harm in alerting the group to the availability of rare or unusual stuff.

But as higbonzo said, "It's your sandbox" and I wouldn't be unhappy about a policy or a consensus, either written or unwritten, that FJowners is FJowners and eBay is eBay, and never the twain shall meet.

After all, it's not like I'm an obsessive-compulsive listing poster! :D

IN a HI-FI forum I belong to we have a thread "great buys on e-bay"
I reckon it has more advantages than disadvantages as not only are members made aware of bargains but they are also warned of scams and dud deals.
Yes I know it can push the price up but it is an auction- you just gotta know when to stop bidding!!
Obscure items and hard-to get bits are also a bonus.
My two bobs worth anyway....

 As a member who posted an eBay link in the "bikes for sale yesterday" I must say that after reading Marshes post that I agree with him. I am now of the opinion that FJ related posts about items for sale on eBay should be discouraged. As the saying goes "never argue with someone you agree with"

:praising:

I see it this way,

if you are the ebay  seller then post it. to let everybody know it is available.

if you find it on ebay and you know somebody has been looking for it , send them a pm.

I for one don't have the time to cruise ebay all day and the automatic search dosen't always find everything because the listing might be a little off in the description.

we can still help each other out by letting people know what we are looking for in the parts wanted section.

Quote from: Mark Olson on August 23, 2009, 11:58:29 AM
I see it this way,
if you are the ebay  seller then post it. to let everybody know it is available.
if you find it on ebay and you know somebody has been looking for it , send them a pm.
I for one don't have the time to cruise ebay all day and the automatic search dosen't always find everything because the listing might be a little off in the description.
we can still help each other out by letting people know what we are looking for in the parts wanted section.

I like that Mark - well said.

I find "bumps" far more annoying than ebay postings. I may be the only one who gets annoyed if sellers or those with questions that could be answered with a simple search constantly bump their posts back to the top, but I doubt it.

To date it has not been an issue here, but on many forums...

I just figgure if were are gonna bitch about the little things that annoy us...

On the ebay listings, I say post em all and let god sort 'em out (or none at all and don't worry about it.)

     How about this perspective -- What if I am selling something on Ebay? I would hope to get the best dollar amount for what I am selling, I mean, a bidding war is what every seller dreams of right? If someone is willing to spend $120 on my crappy stock mirrors...by all means they're yours buddy!
     If someone is getting beat out on their bid for FZR wheels, maybe those wheels are worth more than they were willing to spend, and that's too damn bad for someone only willing to spend under fifty bucks.
     If you got an FJ because you thought parts were gonna be cheap, guess what bucko, you're outta luck.
     I rarely sell motorcycle items on Ebay, especially FJ parts as I give you guys first crack at them. In fact I've given more parts away than sold them.  I guess I'm just ok with the way the forum is right now and limiting egay postings seems kinda petty especially if they're posted in the right category and with the right intent.
     

QuoteIf someone is getting beat out on their bid for FZR wheels, maybe those wheels are worth more than they were willing to spend, and that's too damn bad for someone only willing to spend under fifty bucks.
     If you got an FJ because you thought parts were gonna be cheap, guess what bucko, you're outta luck.

Ratchet_72, Sorry, have to respond to you.  I am glad that you can afford to pay top dollar on everything.  I can't.  I survive on social security disability.  I could barely afford to buy my fj.  It took three years to save the money.  It sounds like you may think that I should not even have bought it, if I cant afford to pay top prices for parts.  When I bought the fj, it needed tires.  I searched and bought a Bridgestone for the rear when I could afford it.  I mounted it my self along with installing fork seals and redoing the carbs.  I could not afford to send it out.  I rode for a couple of weeks, but I needed a new front tire to get the bike inspected.  I found a new matching tire on ebay for $40 including shipping.  If I did not get that tire for that price, bike would be collecting dust for the past 6 weeks.  I thought people in groups like this one look out for one another.  I think that most do here.  I know that I am being rude about this, but your comment hit home with me.

QuoteIf you got an FJ because you thought parts were gonna be cheap, guess what bucko, you're outta luck.

I bought my fj to enjoy, so I feel lucky to have it.  Bucko.

  Again, an eBay powerseller.

Maybe you should have read my other postings where I'M GIVING PARTS AWAY FOR FREE.  Money is also tight with me, hell I'm out of work. Your tire situation sounds JUST like mine, I've got a $40 Shinko on the front that I love, and if I had the money to spend on a more expensive tire I may never have given it a shot.  But to prohibit ebay postings to protect a buyer may hurt a seller who may also be a member of this same forum.
Parts for this bike can border on the ridiculous and I don't believe its the fault of this forum. It just happens to be a great bike that  A LOT of people want to keep on the road.

This would probably be a good reason to perhaps have an FJ FAQ area, where, along with introductions, etc, new members would be encouraged to read. Other forums use this to help eliminate the question with obvious answers.  It could have, among other things, Marsh's general semi-policy about the posting of ebay links, prefaced with a statement like "if you're looking for parts, check ebay - and check it often".  If someone is really looking hard for a part, they need to make an effort.  Post a request for the part, if someone in the group has the part, they are usually willing to let it go for a reasonable price.  If no one responds, its up to you to do some searching. 

Myself, I hate getting into a bidding war.  It would suck to find out two members screwed each other over and a seller is laughing all the way to his paypal account.

Quote from: FJ Flyer on August 24, 2009, 12:51:08 PM
It would suck to find out two members screwed each other over and a seller is laughing all the way to his paypal account.

Boy, you said it. I don't necessarily think everybody should "check in" when they want to bid on something, but I'd hate to be going to war over a set of used carbs or some plastic bits if it's not absolutely necessary.

My $.27

The best way to avoid getting screwed is to sut down and ask yourself just how much you are willing to pay for the item, wait until the last minute on the item and bid the full amount by proxy. If it goes for more than you were willing to pay, then someone else wanted it more. simple really.

I never understood the point of bidding early myself.

If you are not willing, or can not afford an Item move on. (I have been unemployed since February so I know what it means to be a little tight)

Quote from: the fan on August 24, 2009, 06:32:20 PM
The best way to avoid getting screwed is to sut down and ask yourself just how much you are willing to pay for the item, wait until the last minute on the item and bid the full amount by proxy. If it goes for more than you were willing to pay, then someone else wanted it more. simple really.

I never understood the point of bidding early myself.

If you are not willing, or can not afford an Item move on. (I have been unemployed since February so I know what it means to be a little tight)

Here Here! 

Bid what your willing to pay for an item, if it goes for more, then yup, someone else wanted it more.  My philosophy exactly.  I use bidnip and I do not even check in until after the auction is over, keeping me from being tempted to get emotional about an item and paying too much. 

I am of the school of thought that indicates that interesting parts etc. should be posted here.  It may be that someone may see it and say, "yeah hey -I'd like one of those!" 

Alternatively, if you want a part, or know someone that is specifically interested in a particular part you have just spotted, then private message them, or quietly bid on the item as above without posting.  Translation: post an interesting part out if your not interested or do not know of someone who is. 

The alternative is, it may go to some non-forum puke, when in fact someone here, who may have bought it, but does not actively troll ebay, did not look for it...  That's the fellowship nature of it -seems to me.

I would not be offended if I was mildly interested in a part, that was posted out here, and someone chimed in that they have dire need for the thing, and would really not get into a bidding war fellow listers.  I'd back off.  If I was really interested, I figure I'd post out a 'may the best man win' post to give someone a heads up -someone will win it -hopefully it's one of us...

My $0.02

Dan

I don't know if this will put things into perspective, but there are 349 registered member on this site, the highest amount of members ever on at one time was 22, which was nearly broken today with 21 members on at one time.  Now, there are thousands of FJ's out there and running around.  The truth is, yes you may end up bidding against another member, but if you can't handle some clean competition with your buddies then you have your own set of issues.  Furthermore,  the likely hood this group has the only people bidding on FJ or FZR parts are slim and none.  I understand many of us do not have the same means as others, and we may not be able to improve our situation by no fault of our own, but the bottom line we live in a free enterprise system, and an item will bring what the market will bare on any given day.  Life is not fair, and we can not all be winners, but without losers there would be winners.

Just make a 3rd party topic for Ebay, craiglist, motorcycle trader, etc...  Obviously if I am watching something on ebay that I am going to bid on, I won't post it the topic, and I expect the same from the members around me.  But if it should come up in the topic section, I can always make it known that I was really interested in the item and let you all know.  From there I can't do much.  There may be a member that has been as desperately seeking the item as myself and from there may the best man/woman win.  Oh, and don't be surprised if neither of us win because there are, like I said, thousands of other FJ riders.

Later.......   :bye2:

Well said.  :good:

Quote from: higbonzo on August 24, 2009, 08:47:06 PM
  Life is not fair, and we can not all be winners, but without losers there would be winners.

......Which brings us to Rally Rule # 3 ~ there are no winners here, we are all losers   :drinks:

Quote from: TRoy on August 25, 2009, 06:10:38 AM

Quote from: higbonzo on August 24, 2009, 08:47:06 PM
  Life is not fair, and we can not all be winners, but without losers there would be winners.

......Which brings us to Rally Rule # 3 ~ there are no winners here, we are all losers   :drinks:

Amen!

Crikey - what a juicy topic. I go with Mark O and Higbonzo.
1) U sell, u can advertise because u know, we know, what it's worth.
2) A PM to those really in need of a bit is right neighbourly as well. Especially if the members bike is off the road without the particular bit.

But for some bits the market is just going to decide and that's the capitalist pig system we all live in with out exception or choice. Yes brothers and sisters unite and march unto the capitol and smash the fascist regime etc etc etc. But really the systems not so bad - it's made all these lovely stretches of tarmac on which our wheels roll free (ish). It's probably already occurred that to members from the group have been in competition over a part.

Anywho besides the point - with regard to posting links, Mark has the best reasoning I think. If you have heartfelt purpose in helping, then surely this is in line with the core ethos of the group.

Andy French

OK folks, here's a prime example of Dan's philosophy at work, eBay auction 190329987071> I've been looking for a set of flat-slides for about 2.5 years.  But still, this went way over my budget, and no matter who got them, it's outta my price range, period.  No FCR's today, but tomorrow's another day ...

Is this thing now dead?  After several days, it's a dead heat in the polling. 
My 2¢

Hello all.  I think that we need to start a new post that will generate less controversy and emotion.  :ireful: :mad: I suggest: Obama's health care, the stimulus bill, pros and cons of republicans vs democrats, or the 2000 presidential election to name a few.  What say you, members? :bad:

Nah...I'll pass on those topics myself!!!

I wanted to start a discussion on the topic...and it has been a GOOD discussion with MANY valid points from all sides.  Now that the topic has been formally addressed - I'm confident everything will work itself out in the end.  This is a self-policing forum for the most part; I like that.  No policies or rules needed.  I'm a firm believer that everything works out in the end!

There is, and never was going to be, any formal resolution.  The fact that we had a discussion IS the resolution!  Deep...I know...

Quote from: Marsh White on August 27, 2009, 12:18:20 AM
Nah...I'll pass on those topics myself!!!

I wanted to start a discussion on the topic...and it has been a GOOD discussion with MANY valid points from all sides.  Now that the topic has been formally addressed - I'm confident everything will work itself out in the end.  This is a self-policing forum for the most part; I like that.  No policies or rules needed.  I'm a firm believer that everything works out in the end!

There is, and never was going to be, any formal resolution.  The fact that we had a discussion IS the resolution!  Deep...I know...

So by that little comment we can assume Republican?

Quote from: ssuv93 on August 27, 2009, 12:06:19 AM

Hello all.  I think that we need to start a new post that will generate less controversy and emotion.  :ireful: :mad: I suggest: Obama's health care, the stimulus bill, pros and cons of republicans vs democrats, or the 2000 presidential election to name a few.  What say you, members? :bad:

Nah, none of the above. Too mainstream...

But if you really want to get people posting, how 'bout an OIL thread?  :rofl2:

(I use the generic Motor Oil available at my local supermarket... nyah! nyah! nyah!) :P

But if you really want to get people posting, how 'bout an OIL thread?  :rofl2:

(I use the generic Motor Oil available at my local supermarket... nyah! nyah! nyah!) :P

---------------------------------------

I prefer vegetable oil, used is best.

Quote from: Ratchet_72 on August 27, 2009, 01:11:33 PM

I prefer vegetable oil, used is best.

I bet your bike smells like a fat girl!  (http://i28.tinypic.com/3582bh0.gif)

Quote from: the fan on August 27, 2009, 09:22:37 AM

Quote from: Marsh White on August 27, 2009, 12:18:20 AM
Nah...I'll pass on those topics myself!!!

I wanted to start a discussion on the topic...and it has been a GOOD discussion with MANY valid points from all sides.  Now that the topic has been formally addressed - I'm confident everything will work itself out in the end.  This is a self-policing forum for the most part; I like that.  No policies or rules needed.  I'm a firm believer that everything works out in the end!

There is, and never was going to be, any formal resolution.  The fact that we had a discussion IS the resolution!  Deep...I know...

So by that little comment we can assume Republican?

I'm pretty hard to pigeonhole actually.  I share many core beliefs with both sides...fuck me...what's a guy to do?

I think the best answer (and if you don't agree, you're a @#$%# and wrong) is that I don't have problems with someone posting ebay links to something that isn't their auction.

Oh, you were looking for xxxx, here's a link to one for sale right now!


Fine.

I'm NOT cool with posting links to their own stuff for sale (vendors excluded, i.e., Randy et al).

Hi I've got crap for sale and I think I should advertise and drive the price up, instead of selling it to the guy who was asking about it a week ago...


See the difference?  I'm ok with it if it's someone who has like 10 spin-on oil filter adapters, say, here's the auction, they're $xxx and i'm obviously not trying to pit friends/aquaintances against one another.


Summary:  Helping someone by sourcing parts for him/her, good.  Screwing folks by trying to get as many bids as possible -> bad.

The internet provides an awsome resource to find parts.  It's the sign of the times and not going away anytime soon.

I would suggest that there be a seperate category area added just for ebay and craiglist postings.  Anyone selling or interested in buying from the internet could look/post there.

Continue the 'For Sale by FJ Member" and "Looking For Parts" categorys to FJ members as it is currently.

Of course if a member is looking for a part, then by all means help them out and send them the link to ebay.  In the past I was told of a part listed on ebay and it was very helpful.

I feel that just a random posting of ebay links is annoying, like a pop up ad.

Ozz
(Glen)

I like that idea Ozz. It would shorten the ammount of time I spend searching for parts  :good2:  and give me more time to ride.