This question has probably been asked previously but I'll be damned if I could find an answer to my questions, so please be gentle on me.
My Fj1200 has just clocked 160,000 km so while I'm dicking around with the valve seals and cam/ starter chains etc, I'm thinking of replacing the pistons/ rings etc (currently standard original Bore).
The wiseco kits appear to be the only ones readily for sale (I would prefer MTC but?). Anyway if I went with the Wiseco which kit is recommended?.
I have a 1990 3CV, I have Megacycle cams (very mild street), I want the kit to be reliable i.e doesn't have overheating or warping issues and no modifications to cases etc just rebore.
10.25 ratio is my preferred but I do have a replacement head with 0.5mm shaved off. Exhaust is basically standard apart from the tail pipes which are Yami R1 adapted to fit.
If you think other kits are better suited let me know and I'll consider the advice (also where I could buy these from).
I went with the Wiseco 1219cc (78mm piston) kit about 2 years ago. Very happy with the choice. No reliability probs and a noticeable increase in performance. Kits are reasonably priced and only a re-bore is needed to fit. Regards, Pete.
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 02, 2012, 03:26:24 AM
I went with the Wiseco 1219cc (78mm piston) kit about 2 years ago. Very happy with the choice. No reliability probs and a noticeable increase in performance. Kits are reasonably priced and only a re-bore is needed to fit. Regards, Pete.
I also did the Wiseco 1219, I found the biggest improvement in performance came some time later when I installed adjustable cam sprockets to return the timing to original.
I was however disappointed, at 60,000 km's it was starting to use oil and the compressions were dropping off then it blew the base gasket out, I pulled the motor and it's been sitting in the corner of my garage ever since.
When I first did it, I had 175 on all cylinders and it pulled like a freight train.
I didn't know there were alternative kits, I would be very interested in any info.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on November 02, 2012, 04:16:23 AM
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 02, 2012, 03:26:24 AM
I went with the Wiseco 1219cc (78mm piston) kit about 2 years ago. Very happy with the choice. No reliability probs and a noticeable increase in performance. Kits are reasonably priced and only a re-bore is needed to fit. Regards, Pete.
I also did the Wiseco 1219, I found the biggest improvement in performance came some time later when I installed adjustable cam sprockets to return the timing to original.
I was however disappointed, at 60,000 km's it was starting to use oil and the compressions were dropping off then it blew the base gasket out, I pulled the motor and it's been sitting in the corner of my garage ever since.
When I first did it, I had 175 on all cylinders and it pulled like a freight train.
I didn't know there were alternative kits, I would be very interested in any info.
Noel
To be fair I should add that motor always got real hot real fast, before and after the rebuild, it wasn't until I installed the current motor ( with the original oil cooler) that I realised how hot. This may have had some bearing on the wear, but it's hard to find anyone that will give a glowing testimonial for their product. It's more a case of having to use them due to the lack of alternatives.
The place that did the rebore is a second generation, bike specific machine shop, it's all they do and they've been doing it for decades and they are not big fans but concede the lack of choice.
Having said that, I will probably rebuild using Wiseco again.
Noel
And just in case someone's tempted to mention it, it wasn't the oil!
Thanks guys, the 1219 kit was one I was looking at.
I had wiseco's on my Z1R previously but had assembly issues (the second oil scrapper rings were put in upside down = smoke), unfortunately this was the first time I let some-one else assemble my motor. I have to admit the MTC appear (Debatable) to be a better piston (on my Z1R).
Again thankyou for your input, looks like the 1219 is on my xmas card list. :drinks:
Quote from: Bozo on November 01, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
This question has probably been asked previously but I'll be damned if I could find an answer to my questions, so please be gentle on me.
My Fj1200 has just clocked 160,000 km so while I'm dicking around with the valve seals and cam/ starter chains etc, I'm thinking of replacing the pistons/ rings etc (currently standard original Bore).
The wiseco kits appear to be the only ones readily for sale (I would prefer MTC but?). Anyway if I went with the Wiseco which kit is recommended?.
I have a 1990 3CV, I have Megacycle cams (very mild street), I want the kit to be reliable i.e doesn't have overheating or warping issues and no modifications to cases etc just rebore.
10.25 ratio is my preferred but I do have a replacement head with 0.5mm shaved off. Exhaust is basically standard apart from the tail pipes which are Yami R1 adapted to fit.
If you think other kits are better suited let me know and I'll consider the advice (also where I could buy these from).
MTC's are heavy, clunky things with up to .003 skirt difference in a single set of 4 pistons. They are cheap though. A set of the old Cosworth 1250 pistons would be very nice but I do not know if they are available. The last time I spoke to Kelly Roberts he did say he had a couple of sets.
I did a 1219 at one point and it was OK. The 1314 makes a big difference and that 1380 even more I'm sure.
Quote from: ribbert on November 02, 2012, 04:16:23 AM
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 02, 2012, 03:26:24 AM
I went with the Wiseco 1219cc (78mm piston) kit about 2 years ago. Very happy with the choice. No reliability probs and a noticeable increase in performance. Kits are reasonably priced and only a re-bore is needed to fit. Regards, Pete.
I also did the Wiseco 1219, I found the biggest improvement in performance came some time later when I installed adjustable cam sprockets to return the timing to original.
I was however disappointed, at 60,000 km's it was starting to use oil and the compressions were dropping off then it blew the base gasket out, I pulled the motor and it's been sitting in the corner of my garage ever since.
When I first did it, I had 175 on all cylinders and it pulled like a freight train.
I didn't know there were alternative kits, I would be very interested in any info.
Noel
Did you do a leakdown to see if it was the valves or the rings?
Quote from: Bozo on November 02, 2012, 06:40:50 AM
I had wiseco's on my Z1R previously but had assembly issues (the second oil scrapper rings were put in upside down = smoke),
Huh? It's been awhile since I did pistons, but I've never known that the oil scraper rings were directional. I recall that the compression rings had a mark on them as to which direction is up, but don't remember that being the case for the scrapers.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on November 02, 2012, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Bozo on November 02, 2012, 06:40:50 AM
I had wiseco's on my Z1R previously but had assembly issues (the second oil scrapper rings were put in upside down = smoke),
Huh? It's been awhile since I did pistons, but I've never known that the oil scraper rings were directional. I recall that the compression rings had a mark on them as to which direction is up, but don't remember that being the case for the scrapers.
DavidR.
I've never seen that either.
Trust me I found out the hard way, the second ring from the top has a slight taper, two strokes obviously don't need this.
Because some dummy didn't read the Wiseco instructions he just put the rings in any way thinking - no problems. It took me two engine strip downs to realise the second rings were not the correct way up (it smoked hard badly under acceleration), at that time I didn't think it was a problem until a kawasaki drag racer pointed out that the taper. By then the rings were bedded in (incorrectly- at 10,000km) but still using 500ml (1/2 pint) of oil for a 300k run and some smoke under hard acceleration. We tried a slight hone and new rings, that stopped the oil smoke but When I had some spare cash I went to the MTC pistons and they now have over 45,000kms and I never looked back.
Note: the mistake was in the assembly and in no way am I blaming Wiseco pistons.
Just one more question re:pistons, would the 1219 kit cause the sleeve wall thickness to be too thin on the fj1200?? (Oz summers can be hot) or is the difference negligible between it and standard??. Just as I ordered the 1219 kit one of the suppliers mentioned it might mean the wall thickness might be thin creating problems in the heat, he suggested the 1202 - ANY FEEDBACK please
Okay, you appear to be talking about the second COMPRESSION ring, not the oil scraper ring.
The top 2 rings are for compression and, yes, they have a taper and must be installed with the correct side up.
The "oil ring" is the thrid ring and is an assembly of two scraper rings separated by a "separator" ring. The oil scraper rings are not directional.
Clear communication is necessary, otherwise everything gets AFU.
DavidR.
you are correct, my mistake.
Quote from: Bozo on November 01, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
This question has probably been asked previously but I'll be damned if I could find an answer to my questions, so please be gentle on me.
My Fj1200 has just clocked 160,000 km so while I'm dicking around with the valve seals and cam/ starter chains etc, I'm thinking of replacing the pistons/ rings etc (currently standard original Bore).
The wiseco kits appear to be the only ones readily for sale (I would prefer MTC but?). Anyway if I went with the Wiseco which kit is recommended?.
I have a 1990 3CV, I have Megacycle cams (very mild street), I want the kit to be reliable i.e doesn't have overheating or warping issues and no modifications to cases etc just rebore.
10.25 ratio is my preferred but I do have a replacement head with 0.5mm shaved off. Exhaust is basically standard apart from the tail pipes which are Yami R1 adapted to fit.
If you think other kits are better suited let me know and I'll consider the advice (also where I could buy these from).
Bozo
Just an opinion from down under, have a M8 here who did this when he 1st bought his 95 model brand new, pulled the motor installed an 1178 kit, race cams, 60tho oversize valves porcelin coated valve guides, seats etc, the head was ported and polished, a 5 bolt steel crank, 40 mil makuni smooth bore carbies.
He was of the opinion the motor on the FJ is more then capable of doing balistic speeds with out the need to rebore, his bike has been clocked @ over 330k's (about 210mph)an hr down the back str8 @ Barbagello race track in Western Australia.
Have seen this bike towing a trailer 2 up doing a wheel stand in 1st, 2nd & 3rd!!
Baldy
Baldy, that bike you described is something I'd like to see, was that originally an FJ1100 bore? because my cylinder has 1188 on the standard cylinder. I did eventually order the 1219 kit.
Unfortunately my Megacycle cams have started pitting so my cams will be standard after this rebuild.
Quote from: Bozo on November 02, 2012, 05:23:06 PM
Trust me I found out the hard way, the second ring from the top has a slight taper, two strokes obviously don't need this.
Because some dummy didn't read the Wiseco instructions he just put the rings in any way thinking - no problems. It took me two engine strip downs to realise the second rings were not the correct way up (it smoked hard badly under acceleration), at that time I didn't think it was a problem until a kawasaki drag racer pointed out that the taper. By then the rings were bedded in (incorrectly- at 10,000km) but still using 500ml (1/2 pint) of oil for a 300k run and some smoke under hard acceleration. We tried a slight hone and new rings, that stopped the oil smoke but When I had some spare cash I went to the MTC pistons and they now have over 45,000kms and I never looked back.
Note: the mistake was in the assembly and in no way am I blaming Wiseco pistons.
Just one more question re:pistons, would the 1219 kit cause the sleeve wall thickness to be too thin on the fj1200?? (Oz summers can be hot) or is the difference negligible between it and standard??. Just as I ordered the 1219 kit one of the suppliers mentioned it might mean the wall thickness might be thin creating problems in the heat, he suggested the 1202 - ANY FEEDBACK please
Sorry....I thought you were referring to the 3 piece oil ring and its 2 rings. Yes...the second ring can certainly be directional. Interesting about the Megacycle cams as they do a pretty good job with the hardweld. I have used many of their cams with rocker arm and bucket engines with no failures. Maybe a zinc additive will help you in the future.
JMR, I didn't explain myself properly with the rings, so not your fault.
Just curious - On the topic of the megacycle cams, do you know if they re-weld and re-gring pitted cams?.
Quote from: Bozo on November 03, 2012, 09:51:15 AM
JMR, I didn't explain myself properly with the rings, so not your fault.
Just curious - On the topic of the megacycle cams, do you know if they re-weld and re-gring pitted cams?.
I will call Barbara Monday and see if they can do a "touch up". I have sent many Honda CB cams to them to be hardwelded and some of the lobes have been wasted..... no problem. They can also repair damaged journals. I have also sent them some pretty wiped out Suzuki and CB rocker arms....they come back mint.
JMR, any help I can get would be appreciated (with the cams), I have another member (WestOzXJR) who offered to contact webcam also on my behalf but please don't let that stop you. I tried phoning them but the hours are weird compared to Western Australia and I always seem to get the answering service.
I like the cams a lot and have a similar build camshaft (unknown speedway brand) in my Z1R and it has been fantastic (no pitting or even a scratch) for 70,000kms now. That is why I thought the webcams would do the same for the FJ1200.
If I can't get this fixed I'll put my standard cams back in but it would be a backward step for me.
Please let me know how you go with my enquiry. If you are ever in Oz I'll extend my hospitality to you in return.
Quote from: Bozo on November 02, 2012, 05:23:06 PM
Just one more question re:pistons, would the 1219 kit cause the sleeve wall thickness to be too thin on the fj1200?? (Oz summers can be hot) or is the difference negligible between it and standard??. Just as I ordered the 1219 kit one of the suppliers mentioned it might mean the wall thickness might be thin creating problems in the heat, he suggested the 1202 - ANY FEEDBACK please
I've never heard that suggested, even by the machine shop that did my re-bore. My personal view is it's bullshit, there's plenty of meat there and I never noticed any difference in mine, even in 44 deg. heat.
Noel
Believe it or not it was suggested by one of the ebay sellers, so I needed to make sure, as I stated I did end up buying the 1219 because as far as I'm concerned 1mm dia extra is not a huge overbore. Thanks for your input
Quote from: Bozo on November 03, 2012, 08:50:06 AM
Baldy, that bike you described is something I'd like to see, was that originally an FJ1100 bore? because my cylinder has 1188 on the standard cylinder. I did eventually order the 1219 kit.
Unfortunately my Megacycle cams have started pitting so my cams will be standard after this rebuild.
Bozo
It was a 95 model (only 40 of them imported to Australia, were only meant to go to Europe) so no it was already 1188cc he didn't change the bore he left it standard, I also forgot to mention it has a Barnett clutch with double springs, It also has done 160thousand K's and as our esteemed XRay and Klav can say with a fair amount of conviction its faster then a speeding bullet and twice as deadly!
Baldy
Baldy, is this bike going to be at the Bellingen Rally, come to think of it will you be there?, I'd like to talk more about his bike.
SORRY SORRY MY STUFF UP, my previous cams were WEBCAMS. The cams I should be referring to are MEGA CYCLE, don't ask I was so peeved when I took them out I wasn't thinking straight - MY sincere apologises.
Sorry to all who offered to help me out of this predicament, I would still need help contacting Mega- cycle please.
Please no taking the piss out of me I feel bad enough for this mistake already. I have made an apology in a new message to all who read my previous message.
:dash2: Bozo as I'm suppose to be organizing the rides for said weekend I think I'll be there :rofl2: dont know about the big fella still working on that.
Baldy
Quote from: Bozo on November 04, 2012, 04:40:56 PM
Baldy, is this bike going to be at the Bellingen Rally, come to think of it will you be there?, I'd like to talk more about his bike.
G`day Bozo. There`s a thread underneath "DownUnder Topics" that Harvy started ta see who`s going. Like you, a lot haven`t noticed it. Check it out and add ya John Henry"
Looks like this:-
Re: March 9th 2013 - Who's in
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 12:58:37 PM »
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Quote from: Harvy on November 01, 2012, 12:34:09 PM
OK... just starting a list.... Add your name to the bottom.
Harvy & Peta.........