Ok new member here, already started a thread in the intro section, but figured with the Qs i was asking and help i need it should be time to move the Qs to thisSo section.
So Q #1 cheap points seal/gasket whatever it is, not the one for the cover which i need a new gasket for it as well and cover since its broke but ill proly try n jb weld it and just paint it since it seems to just keep water out. oh and i may need the screws for the cover as well, PO thought that a phillips head is a phillips head and a #1 will work in place of a #2.... so their pretty stripped out. i got them, but i would like new ones.
Q#2 why is the engine taking so long to return to idle after giving it throttle? i only cleaned the jets and lower end of the carbs earlyer, tried to sync the carbs by setting them to 1.5 turns each, got it running and idling and no longer needing starting fluid and holding on the throttle to start. but it still backfires no flames now but still popping and when riding it roars pops roars some more then maybe pops again or maybe not but its deff running better then when i brought it home yester day. oh the throttle cable is returning crisp so i know its not the cable.
Sounds like the carbs need a complete disassembly and cleaning.
I bought a 1 gallon can of Berrymans carb dip. It comes with a basket. You disassemble the carbs (one at a time) and put everything in the basket and drop it into the dip for at least 30 mins or so. Just don't put the floats or any rubber/plastic parts in the dip.
After the dip, clean them off with water. Dry them and using a can of carb cleaner with plastic tube, spray cleaner thru all the holes. There are pics on the internet that show where all the holes go to. Make sure all passages are clear.
Don't forget to remove the emulsion tubes and clean out all the little holes. Same for the pilot jets.
The slides I just clean with carb cleaner (don't dip them). They have to be clean and smooth or they can stick, which will cause the eng to not go back to idle.
Then, set the float levels and put everything back together. You also need to make sure there's no vacuum leaks where the intake boots meet the head. There's an o-ring in there that shrinks over time and can cause a vacuum leak.
You can blow air (with your mouth) into the oval port on the air cleaner side of carbs and make the slides go up and down to verify they aren't sticking.
As for syncing the carbs, you need a set of monometers (or vacuum gauges). The adjustment screws are extremely sensitive. Just the weight of the screwdriver on the adj screws makes a difference. The screws you mentioned turning 1.5 turns were probably the idle mixture screws (on top of carb near intake boot).
The sync screws are within the linkages that connects one carb to another.
If you haven't taken these type of carbs apart before, look for some drawings that break-down what all is in the carbs and where all the internal passages connect to. There's a few very small o-rings, washers and whatnot that you don't wanna loose or reinstall incorrectly. I studied the drawings for a couple of nights before tearing mine down. It helped a lot..
posted in the other thread too......
First thing is you need to figure out which screws are the mixture screws and which screws are the balancing screws.
this is very important.
the mixture screws are on the engine side of the actual carbs.... each one right in the center where the carb body meets the rubber carb joint.
the synchronizing screws are on the actual carb linkages between the carb bodies.
if your carbs are clean and properly synch'd with the engine running smoothly in all speed ranges then a hanging idle is caused by too lean setting on the mixture screws.....when its too rich it will drop below your set idle then recover..... when its just right the idle will settle right to the perfect spot when doing a throttle blip test.
if you are running pod filters and 4/1 exhaust you are gonna want to start about 2 turns out on the mixture screws (from lightly seated)
if adjusting the mixture screws doesnt have any effect then the rubber o rings under the mixture screws may have perished and will need replacing.
first thing though is to get the carbs spotlessly clean and properly synchronized.
Kookaloo!
ok so tuesday the buddy that helped pull the bottom apart is gonna help me tear into the carbs again and were gonna fully pull them apart check o rings and everything. gonna get some carb soak and soak them over night and hit them with some q tips. since i cant ride it again til the oil plug is in, i pulled the front fairing off and i think it looks pretty good all stripped down. i think ill just find some cheap hid fog lights and wire them up for head lights. cheap tac off ebay and a universal speedo. could proly do all that for less then 100 bucks. some krylon rattle can and i think it could be pretty slick.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 21, 2012, 10:59:26 PM
ok so tuesday the buddy that helped pull the bottom apart is gonna help me tear into the carbs again and were gonna fully pull them apart check o rings and everything.
You should get the
S/S carb screw & o-ring kit (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit). It has all of the replacement o-rings and stainless steel allen head screws for the carbs as well as intake manifold o-rings.
After you strip several of the soft screws, or try and find metric o-rings locally you will be glad you did.
Randy - RPM
yeah i when i was playing with the idle mixture screws, the ones on top of the carbs toward the jugs, i noticed there was some fuel seepage comming out of them. i would imagine the seals are shot. i have a buddy that owns a hydro shop so im sure i can get the o rings for the screws for cheap if not free if he has a bunch laying around. if not ill proly be ordering them. geeze i was trying not to spend money on this thing right now... but after playing with it... i want it running right...
hey randy, you wouldnt happen to sell gas tank lids and just not have them on the site as well would you ??? (fingers crossed please say yes)
If you're doing carb work of any kind, get the carb kit from Randy.
I forgot whether it includes the Intake O-rings. If it doesn't then get them also. Your high idle problem may be caused by air leaking into the intakes. Replacing the intake o-rings is probably way overdue.
Good luck on the gas cap. They've been obsolete for over 10 years and are a rare find when they show up.
DavidR.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 22, 2012, 12:48:36 AM
hey randy, you wouldnt happen to sell gas tank lids and just not have them on the site as well would you ??? (fingers crossed please say yes)
Nope, they have been discontinued for many years as mentioned by David.
Randy - RPM
I've sold or given away my last few 84- fuel caps , , will see if I have another , can't promise anything, , well unless I paint a later tank for the 84 :lol:,, but I've done that with effie :scratch_one-s_head:
ok so some free updates for the day, free as in it cost me nothing but some time because i already had the jb weld and q tips. lol
first the oil plug with the welds over the hole.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0465_zps77b0d550.jpg)
and if i woulda thought about it i would have taken pics to show the chunk that was missing first but i didnt so here it is filled in with cold weld and a duct tape backing to keep it flush on the inside.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0468_zpsa4c150ae.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0469_zps5007d277.jpg)
now once its try ill proly get some sand paper on it to smooth it down to flush on both sides but the tape helped for the most part.
and the plug jb welded up, well for now i have a new plug in the mail but want to work on the carbs between now and then so jb weld will have to hold for now.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0473_zpsa731b4c6.jpg)
and a dab on the inside hole to be extra sure.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0475_zps71cc9c17.jpg)
well thats it for today, tomorrow pull the carbs off again and see how bad they really are...
Quote from: fj11.5 on October 22, 2012, 04:01:04 PM
I've sold or given away my last few 84- fuel caps , , will see if I have another , can't promise anything, , well unless I paint a later tank for the 84 :lol:,, but I've done that with effie :scratch_one-s_head:
i would be more than happy to buy it from you. if not im going to have to figure something out. was thinking about buying something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Cap-With-Cover-Key-For-SUZUKI-GSXR-600-750-1000-2000-2003-/251145840144?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a79756610&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Cap-With-Cover-Key-For-SUZUKI-GSXR-600-750-1000-2000-2003-/251145840144?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a79756610&vxp=mtr)
and figuring a way to mount it in place... maybe some self tapping screws with some jb weld to keep them sealed and wash the take real well to get all the metal shavings from the screws... i dunno ill figure something out.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 22, 2012, 10:42:05 PM
i would be more than happy to buy it from you. if not im going to have to figure something out. was thinking about buying something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Cap-With-Cover-Key-For-SUZUKI-GSXR-600-750-1000-2000-2003-/251145840144?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a79756610&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Cap-With-Cover-Key-For-SUZUKI-GSXR-600-750-1000-2000-2003-/251145840144?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a79756610&vxp=mtr)
and figuring a way to mount it in place... maybe some self tapping screws with some jb weld to keep them sealed and wash the take real well to get all the metal shavings from the screws... i dunno ill figure something out.
Surely you jest. :shok:
Why not just pick up a tank from one of the later 1st gen FJs (that had the more readily available cap), instead of trying to jackleg something that is probably going to end up setting your bike (and maybe you, in the process) afire? :unknown:
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 22, 2012, 10:26:15 PM
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0465_zps77b0d550.jpg)
Is this the plug out of the oil pan or the galley just below the cover you are repairing?
Randy - RPM
it was on the right side of the engine, very bottom and when i pulled it all the oil came out with it, it kinda smelled like it had gas in the oil as well it was very thin oil. the cover i was repairing is on the left. oh and what is the points looking things?(ya know under the cover i was repairing) the buddy that was helping me with the carbs said they were electronic points???
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 23, 2012, 12:02:22 PM
it was on the right side of the engine, very bottom and when i pulled it all the oil came out with it, it kinda smelled like it had gas in the oil as well it was very thin oil. the cover i was repairing is on the left. oh and what is the points looking things?(ya know under the cover i was repairing) the buddy that was helping me with the carbs said they were electronic points???
That is not the oil drain plug but an oil galley plug. The oil drain plug is located at the bottom of the engine in the oil pan, almost centered and towards the front.
That is the electronic ignition pick-up coil under the cover your repaired.
Randy - RPM
oh... well i bought the wrong plug....lol poo... well then. hummm.... i guess jb weld is gonna have to work then!lol well the skies cleared up for a few and i got the carbs pulled off and mostly apart. i fear pulling them off the rack. but needless to say they looked mostly clean still but the ports that were nasty before are gunked up again. were soaking everything now. ill post some pics and some more questions.
1st Q how can i tell if these gaskets are bad
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0476_zpsabfea71e.jpg)
2nd Q can you see the melted peaces in these pics? in between the carbs? what are they? where should they be connected to? one is compleatly gone, the other is just melted real bad. where do i get replacements? Do you have them randy?
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0479_zps11bad483.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0480_zps7bfac37f.jpg)
3rd Q 2 parter the small screws on top of the carbs are the idle mixture screws correct? if so how many turns is a good starting place? and the larger screws that there are only three of between the carbs, are they the sync screws? i should run them down and back them off to 2.5 to start with right? every setting has been played with on this carb, nothing is set where it should be.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0485_zps48653961.jpg)
4th Q these jets, all say 11.5 but one is different, different color, different size, well the head larger but smaller washer but they are overall the same they look like. is that gonna make a big difference? should i order new jets?
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0507_zps5de3a152.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0508_zpsac0256fb.jpg)
and some random pics of the nasty carbs, altho every thing looked pretty clean and clear. but here
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0501_zps14ea8e2e.jpg)
i think this is where the needles sit that control the float. all of them had gunk in them again. i think something is in the tank... wouldnt surprise me since it has no gas lid! ill have to clean the tank out and put a filter between the tank and carb. shouldnt it have one anyways?
anyways pics of nasty carbs with over spray from a dumb PO
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0481_zpscb387691.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0484_zpsdd4fb9eb.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0487_zpsc88a37fe.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0486_zpsf20b90ce.jpg)
hopefully the gas and carb cleaner will strip some of that paint off and i can just wipe every thing down and clean it up... thanks for the help so far guys most of the rubbers seem to be fine so i hope a good cleaning and reassembly and the proper tuning will get this thing running right.
jscgdunn just posted the link to a wonderful Mikuni Carb rebuild document. This should answer all your carb related questions even though the carbs are slightly different than the BS36's used on the FJ.
http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/Mikuni_BS-CV_Carburetor_Rebuild_Tutorial.pdf (http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/Mikuni_BS-CV_Carburetor_Rebuild_Tutorial.pdf)
You should also get the allen screw and O-ring kit from Randy. It will save you $$ and LOTS of frustration.
BTW was this bike burnt before?
Arnie
so got the carbs back together. i got a filter between the tank and the carbs now so i shouldnt have the problem of nasty carbs again. i think i have a vacuum line not hooked up. can anyone tell me where these lines go? and why there are two lines and the other two are plugged?
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0517_zps0975fed6.jpg)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/MotherOfAGem/FJ%201100/DSC_0516_zps2d4cd05a.jpg)
any ideas guys? i got my tail lights bobbed, they look much better. now tomorrow ill work on the front and hiding all the wiring. anyone got any idea how to hook a set of fog lights up as headlights?
Quote from: Arnie on October 23, 2012, 08:23:49 PM
BTW was this bike burnt before?
Arnie
I dont know but it really looks that way. it wouldnt surprise me... its running better but still poor throttle response and comming down from rev slowly but better over all then when i brought it home. the carbs werent that bad. all the o rings seemed to be in alright shape. same with the jets and diaframs. but i really think its vacuum related now. i read somewhere on here if the vacuum lines were goofed then it would run like crap. still poppin. but idles way better.
The melted fittings are the vent lines. Melted is a red flag, need some serious heat to melt that. If they were already missing the rubber tubing then less heat. But heat to melt them.... Abuse.
Not sure if this is what you wanted.Pulse line off #1 goes to petcock in the gas tank pulse line off #2 goes to the ignition box.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 23, 2012, 08:30:30 PM
Quote from: Arnie on October 23, 2012, 08:23:49 PM
BTW was this bike burnt before?
Arnie
I dont know but it really looks that way. it wouldnt surprise me... its running better but still poor throttle response and comming down from rev slowly but better over all then when i brought it home. the carbs werent that bad. all the o rings seemed to be in alright shape. same with the jets and diaframs. but i really think its vacuum related now. i read somewhere on here if the vacuum lines were goofed then it would run like crap. still poppin. but idles way better.
I think you also mentioned that you added a fuel filter.
IIRC, that can cause problems with non-fuel pump FJs.
ok so if the pulse lines arnt hooked up will it cause it to not run right? and the tank looks like it has a fuel pump... why else would there be wires coming from the petcock? but yeah i put a fuel filter inline. but it seems to be having the same problems as before just getting a little better... im about stumped. my buddy says new plugs and wires.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 23, 2012, 08:43:25 PM
ok so if the pulse lines arnt hooked up will it cause it to not run right? and the tank looks like it has a fuel pump... why else would there be wires coming from the petcock? but yeah i put a fuel filter inline. but it seems to be having the same problems as before just getting a little better... im about stumped. my buddy says new plugs and wires.
Wires coming from the petcock are for the electronically 'simulated reserve'.
If you don't have enough fuel in it, and the switch is not on reserve, that would cause it to act like it's out of gas.
Unless it's been added, early models didn't have fuel pumps.
Many filters are too restrictive for gravity feed.
the bike will never run right if the carbs are not synchronized properly.... you cant just set the balancing screws without some type of manometer.... either home made or store bought but you cannot skip this step!.
KOokaloo!
thanks guys! i under stand it wont run right without a manometer, but it should run better than it does. ill try and remove the filter tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. oh also i moved these Qs to the right section of the forum. There are so many areas... geeze...lol sorry ill get used to this place soon. im sure ill be here a lot. this bike needs lots of attention.
Quote from: minitruckeratheart on October 23, 2012, 08:43:25 PM
ok so if the pulse lines arnt hooked up will it cause it to not run right? and the tank looks like it has a fuel pump... why else would there be wires coming from the petcock? but yeah i put a fuel filter inline. but it seems to be having the same problems as before just getting a little better... im about stumped. my buddy says new plugs and wires.
1985 should not have pump or inline filter.Or wires from petcock.Regardless if the pulse lines arn't hooked up it will run like crap.1985 should have ignition box on the side of the battery box,Left side of your bike.If it has the right box it will have a curved vacume fitting coming out of the front end of it.It runs to the #2 pulse fiting on the carb intake boot.Your other pulse line on #2 carb intake boot connects to the fuel petcock.You have wires coming from your petcock so its not like mine if it has wires it most likely is for a fuel pump and I think that had some thing up under the fairing by the headlight it connected to.I would need to go look some boost control or something.If you cap it you should be fine as long as you have a fuel pump.