Dennis, don't freak out. Hang with us and you will get there. We will help you, just like these folks helped me.
Just take one project at a time.
My #1 recommendation (after SS brake lines) is to get rid of that weak ass oem rear shock and beg, borrow or steal a adjustable Penske. Superior dampening aside, just getting the rear end raised (via adjustment) and loading the front tire is worth the price of admission. Yep, it's expensive to buy, but it's such a simple upgrade and IMHO most effective. This is why (again IMHO) this should be your first mod.
Thanks for the kind words. Cheers! Pat
Quote from: E Double on August 14, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
Well, mine is definitely not as mint as yours (omfg I wish) but I can't kick too hard; http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/99BWGN7JHMbWjEswCzjiRg?feat=directlink. (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/99BWGN7JHMbWjEswCzjiRg?feat=directlink.) I haven't figured out where this forum's photo uploader is yet, so here is a link to the pics of the bike and where I ride/have ridden, starting from today; http://picasaweb.google.com/brwnsoxx/TheMotorcycleChronicles?feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/brwnsoxx/TheMotorcycleChronicles?feat=directlink)
yes the Penske is a modular shock.... the eye on the lower shock mount for the early model FJs can easily be swapped for a clevis mount that will fit whatever swimgarm you may decide to upgrade too in the future :good2:
i agree with Pat..... one of the first things i bought for my FJ was a Penske and it really transformed the handling of the bike..... after a wheel upgrade, add some cartridge forks with blue spot calipers and you will think you are riding a brand new modern motorcycle..... with classic timeless style :good2:
i prefer the Penske to the Ohlins because the Penske has adjustable ride height and the FJ really responds well to raising the rear ride height.... doing business with Traxxion was very pleasant since they will swap springs and revalve the shock until you are satisfied it is perfect.
Kookaloo! :yahoo:
Basic no frills Penske Sport from Traxxion Dynamics, $625: http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx)
Same shock but with remote reservior/compression adjustment (handy) $875: http://traxxion.com/detail-43.aspx (http://traxxion.com/detail-43.aspx)
Same shock at Lindemann Engineering for a bit cheaper $751: http://tinyurl.com/mkkbfb (http://tinyurl.com/mkkbfb)
HTH
Quote from: E Double on August 15, 2009, 09:29:00 AM
As for the Penske shock, which model fits, or are they modular with different fittings available? Ohlins just added the YA441 to the "obsolete" list so unless I can find one when I'll be ready to pull the trigger (around the first of the year hopefully) I'll have to consider the Penske.
Raising the rear ride height = decreasing the rake (and also coincidently slightly decreasing the wheelbase).
Just the ticket for a quicker-handling bike, but you'll trade off a small bit of high-speed stability.
How much higher in the back is good?
the general concensus is raising the rear end until the rear tire just touches when the bike is on the centerstand.
some of us have raised the bike quite a bit further in order to make the FJ a little more suitable for real twisty road fun
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_0793.jpg)
Kookaloo!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on August 15, 2009, 06:45:57 PM
the general concensus is raising the rear end until the rear tire just touches when the bike is on the centerstand.
some of us have raised the bike quite a bit further in order to make the FJ a little more suitable for real twisty road fun
Kookaloo!
Thanks, racerman!
This might be a dumb question as I haven't examined the geometry, but might it be possible to get some lift in the rear with the stock shock and a spacer somewhere?
TIA,
threejagsteve
Steve,
You can easily get more ride height (on the later model FJs) by making shorter "dogbones".
These are just 5 or 6mm flat steel with 12mm holes. Stock is 12.5cm c-to-c. IIRC 0.5cm shorter center to center on the holes = about an inch of ride height.
Cheers,
Arnie
Correctamundo Arnie, this will work on Steve's late model ('91?) FJ but not on the earlier '84/85 FJ's which use a different linkage. The only way to raise the rear the early year 1100's is with a adjustable shock like a Penske.
FYI, on my '92, I use Soupy's adjustable links which allow me to fine tune my exact height.
http://www.soupysperformance.com/homepage.html (http://www.soupysperformance.com/homepage.html)
HTH
Pat
Quote from: Arnie on August 17, 2009, 09:13:48 AM
Steve,
You can easily get more ride height (on the later model FJs) by making shorter "dogbones".
These are just 5 or 6mm flat steel with 12mm holes. Stock is 12.5cm c-to-c. IIRC 0.5cm shorter center to center on the holes = about an inch of ride height.
Cheers,
Arnie
Thanks, Arnie... Exactly the info I was looking for... Although that project ought to wait until I've got my forks sorted out, now is the time to start looking for some appropriate stock. ;)
And thanks, Pat, those adjustable dogbones do look neat! But I noticed that they don't list FJs in their application list - Are yours custom, or did you use the YZF600 parts, or ???
Cheers,
threejagsteve
I'm guessing that the 'dogbones' are # 15 on the fiche below...
(http://i31.tinypic.com/2eznx3t.gif)
Yepper that's them :wacko3:
Steve; Give Soupy a call with your bolt diameters and measurement range you want the links to adjust to. The longest will be your oem length (so you can return to stock anytime) Be sure to tell him that you have a FJ.
He makes his money with the drag racers selling "lowering links" but they (the links) work in the opposite just fine.
These will be just plug and play on your '91, just like they were on my '92, no worries.
My '84 is a different story. To accommodate the YZF1000 Thunder Ace swing arm conversion, I had to convert the linkage over to '89 FJ linkage, therefore I also used Soupy's links on the '84. They are very handy.
HTH
Quote from: threejagsteve on August 17, 2009, 04:30:41 PM
And thanks, Pat, those adjustable dogbones do look neat! But I noticed that they don't list FJs in their application list - Are yours custom, or did you use the YZF600 parts, or ???
Thanks again, Pat... I'll keep that in mind...
Right now, I'm thinking I could just make a nonadjustable pair for nearly nothing - to see if I even like the effect.
Then drop the fork tubes a bit in the triple trees to lower the front, thus amplifying the raised tail?
Since I'm going to have the forks all apart anyway, I just ordered a set of Progressive springs - $57.64 plus S&H from the Powersport Superstore... through Amazon.com! (who'd'a thought? LOL)
Steve, I would do a step at a time. Start with the dog bones.
Give yourself some time to adjust your riding style to the quicker turn in. Get the rear raised so your tire is 1/2" off the level concrete when your bike is on the center stand, that way you can still rotate the rear tire when you apply the chain lube.
Beware, with your new progressive springs you will still get "some" squat when you apply the front binders. Not as bad as the soft oem springs mind you, but you will get some squat, and even with progressives, you will find times when you bottom out your front forks. This is why, over the years, we have moved away from progressive springs in favor of straight rate springs and cartridge emulators.
Therefore, I would not lower your front end until you see how much clearance you end up with the new progressive springs. You will probably find no need to raise your stanchion tubes, just getting the rear end raised will do wonders.
HTH
Pat
Thanks again, Pat! You're probably right about getting used to the already-planned mods before trying to further lower the front end.
I was remembering the '86 FZ750 I had for about a year, many moons ago... and how it felt like it had almost NO rake, and would turn on a dime. 'Course a lot of that was the short wheelbase. It was just a bit too uncomfortable for my 6'3" self. But I'd swear that bike used to whisper to me, "Faster, faster!" :P
Pursuing this notion of making a pair of shorter dogbones, I measured the distance my centerstand holds the back wheel off the ground (32 mm).
Now, this tire is nearly bald in the middle, so if I add a few mm to allow for a tire that actually has tread, the most I can raise the rear and still have a few mm between the tire and the ground on the centerstand is about 1 in.
The wheelbase is just under 59 in., but the rotational axis of this 'system' is (effectively, anyway) the top of the steering head. For the purpose of this calculation, I estimated the horizontal (x-axis) distance between the top of the steering head and the front axle to be 10". An inch or two either way isn't going to make a significant difference anyway, and I didn't feel like going downstairs to measure it.
Unless I erred in my trigonometric calculations, a 1" rear lift will deliver about 1.1 degrees less rake. So now I wonder - is this small of a change even going to be noticeable? Will it be worth the bother?
TIA and cheers,
threejagsteve
Quote from: threejagsteve on August 18, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
Pursuing this notion of making a pair of shorter dogbones, I measured the distance my centerstand holds the back wheel off the ground (32 mm).
Now, this tire is nearly bald in the middle, so if I add a few mm to allow for a tire that actually has tread, the most I can raise the rear and still have a few mm between the tire and the ground on the centerstand is about 1 in.
The wheelbase is just under 59 in., but the rotational axis of this 'system' is (effectively, anyway) the top of the steering head. For the purpose of this calculation, I estimated the horizontal (x-axis) distance between the top of the steering head and the front axle to be 10". An inch or two either way isn't going to make a significant difference anyway, and I didn't feel like going downstairs to measure it.
Unless I erred in my trigonometric calculations, a 1" rear lift will deliver about 1.1 degrees less rake. So now I wonder - is this small of a change even going to be noticeable? Will it be worth the bother?
TIA and cheers,
threejagsteve
I just removed the 'bones, shimmed the r/w where I wanted it to be, then made the new 'bones to fit. HTH
Randy T
Indy
Steve, you may want to stiffen up the preload on your soft oem back shock to get the best turn in feedback from the shorter dog bones. Go ahead and do the bones, it's easy, you can get the steel stock at Lowe's/Home Depot. Cut the strap iron to length and drill the holes. Easy peesey. I did have to special order a metric drill bit for the holes (sorry, I can't remember the size) Hint: when you drill the holes, clamp both pieces together in a vise and drill both pieces at the same time. That way your holes will line up dead nuts with both pieces. *A important point*
Don't over think the mod, it's sooo easy, try it, me thinks you'll like it...Also, no worries about sacrificing high speed stability. I've had both my FJ's to 140++ on open desert roads and they're rock stable, nary a twitch.
Gotta blow the carbon out once and awhile don't 'cha know, flow some gas through those main jets, etc, etc..
BTW, I am also 6'3", it's nice to have a comfortable ride like the FJ huh? I spent a weekend on a GSXR, nice bike, easy to go waaaaay beyond my capabilities, and I needed a chiropractor on Monday....Not so on my FJ...
Enjoy! Pat
Quote from: threejagsteve on August 18, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
Unless I erred in my trigonometric calculations, a 1" rear lift will deliver about 1.1 degrees less rake. So now I wonder - is this small of a change even going to be noticeable? Will it be worth the bother?
threejagsteve
Quote from: threejagsteve on August 18, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
Unless I erred in my trigonometric calculations, a 1" rear lift will deliver about 1.1 degrees less rake. So now I wonder - is this small of a change even going to be noticeable? Will it be worth the bother?
TIA and cheers,
threejagsteve
there have been so many FJ'ers do this mod that the evidence is way more than hearsay.... the mod works.
even as much as i have raised the ride height on my FJ there is no hint of instability at any speed.
KOokaloo!
Steve,
Its surprising how little a change is necessary for it to be noticable. You should make only a single change at a time so you'll know which changes make what feel different.
Cheers,
Arnie
Quote from: threejagsteve on August 18, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
Unless I erred in my trigonometric calculations, a 1" rear lift will deliver about 1.1 degrees less rake. So now I wonder - is this small of a change even going to be noticeable? Will it be worth the bother?
TIA and cheers,
threejagsteve
The rake number is deceiving. Its the decrease in trail that allows for a more nimble chassis. Also you might want to keep in mind that the FJ has a rake of 27.5 degrees and a trail of 112mm stock. A 95 YZF600r has a rake of 25 degrees and 97mm of trail, The 05 R6 has 24.5 degrees and 94mm. see a trend here...
If you reduce the rake of your FJ to 26.4 degrees and the trail to appx 100-105mm (too lazy to measure) the end result will be a much quicker handling machine but not so much so that you lose a significant amount of stability.
The biggest stumbling block I see with the FJ is the spring rates that Yamaha specified for the machine. Installing fork springs is a great mod and easy to do, but unless you raise the tail you will tend to run wide on corner exits due to the overly soft shock spring. This is still a problem when the tail is raised, but is less so due to the quicker geometry. The problem is that you need special tools to safely swap out the stock shock spring.
I will measure a stock spring tonight and see if a replacement is available or even cost effective. If I remember correctly the Penske shock is shipped from Traxxion with a 900lb (16.0kg/mm) so this should be a good match for the 1.0kg/mm fork springs. If I can locate a spring I can change them out (for a very modest fee) in a few minutes if someone were to ship the shock to me. The FJ shock is not serviceable nor is it even close to the performance level of a Penske, but a spring swap would go a long way toward improving the handling of the bike.
Bill,
by raising the rear ride height (via dogbone swap) you are also changing the angle at which the linkage works against the shock spring. in my experience raising the rea ride height also makes the shock spring feel stiffer due to the difference in leverage..... with my extremely raised ride height we actually went with a way softer spring than what Max thought we were going to have to use..
Kookaloo!
Thanks for all the useful comments - ok, ok, I'm sold!
Yes, Pat, I'd already figured on doing both at the same time for the very reason you mentioned - a vise and a drill press, and a nice, sharp bit! (12 mm, I think somebody mentioned earlier; I'll double-check when I get the old ones off, though.)
the fan, I agree about the stock shock - I've had it on the highest preload setting since Day 1. If the special tools you're talking about are spring compressors, I have a set I got for changing the struts on my car. I doubt they'd handle much more than a couple inches at 900 lb/in., but if that's all the compression that's needed, I could accomplish the swap myself. But where to find an appropriate spring?
Cheers, and thanks again to all!
Hello, there is a rear spring from Progressive Suspension for $80 and free shipping on ebay. It is new.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270430551377&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270430551377&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
Murray
Thanks for thinking of me, Murray!
Checked it out - Sad to say, it only fits up to an '87 (I have a '91)... But maybe somebody else can use it!
Cheers,
threejagsteve
Just what the doctor ordered!
I will be removing the rear wheel to paint it so I will raise the rear while I'm at it!!
3 Jag -
The free length of the 'up to' 87 spring is only 6.5mm shorter than the free length of the later bikes. The late model bikes were also much softer sprung than the early bikes, which were still too soft.
To fit this onto your late model FJ all you'd need to do is add a 6.5mm spacer between the spring and the seat.
Cheers,
Arnie
The ID appears to be different between the early and late springs. the late model bikes use a 58mm ID spring while the earlier models have a 62mm ID (numbers appx, based on measuring 2 shocks I have disassembled on my workbench)
What numbers do you have for the free length and I.D. (curious)
Regarding the Progressive spring on eBay, I later noticed that the same seller also has a complete Progressive shock-and-spring unit, also for '87-and-before FJs. The spring by itself looks identical to the spring in the complete unit, so it's also possible that the spring offered by itself is actually a replacement spring for the Progressive shock unit, and might be different from one that'd fit a stock shock.
Quote from: the fan on August 19, 2009, 10:48:05 AM
The ID appears to be different between the early and late springs. the late model bikes use a 58mm ID spring while the earlier models have a 62mm ID (numbers appx, based on measuring 2 shocks I have disassembled on my workbench)
What numbers do you have for the free length and I.D. (curious)
From the Clymer manual: free length of early springs is 174.5mm and later models 181mm. I'll check and report back later about ID from the various springs and shocks I have.
Cheers,
Arnie
don't forget you'll also need to carry around a block of wood or other device with a leather shoelace drilled through, to put your kickstand on. after you put on the shorter dogbones, your bike will lean significantly, and that block will help.
you will also want to have handy a wood board that you can put under the centerstand when you want to get the rear tire off the ground. with the shorter d/b's, the c/s alone won't get the tire off the ground.
hth.
Thanks, Dean,
I already carry an old metal coaster to put under my sidestand on gravel or dirt. Maybe I'll have to look for a thicker one. ;)
But unless I get the holes wrong, I'm figuring on barely enough clearance to lube the chain without a board under the centerstand.
Since this is just a cheap, quick and easy experiment, if I like the effect I can always go more radical later...
Cheers,
threejagsteve
Shouldn't be a hassle to increase the side and center stand heights so two or three inches of increase is easy.
What would be the ideal height (leaving the front standard) and raising the stands as necessary?
No one answer is right.
Taken from <some famous guy>'s article on suspension setup:
QuoteA common example of where riders improperly change their bikes comes when the bike steers in too slowly. Many confused riders and tuners will raise the back of the bike. This makes the nose steeper, and the bike will steer more sharply. But remember, in order to get an effect of "1" on the front of the bike, you have now make an effect of "5" on the rear. Your bike may now turn in better, but you will get less traction, more wheelspin, and more tendency to high-side. This is not what you wanted... The correct change is to lower the nose of the bike. This affects the turn in "5 (front)" and the exit "1 (rear)". Much better!!!!
QuoteSwingarm angle....tunes the way the bike reacts to acceleration. Your motorcycle wants to "squat" under acceleration due to the rearward weight transfer.
If the swingarm is too flat, the bike will squat too much, and the bike will sit back and the front will extend like a chopper. This will make the bike want to run wide or run off the edge of the track. The front end will feel light and dance about as you are leaving a turn. The result is that you have to wait to get on the throttle. You should raise the rear of the bike to correct this.
If the swingarm angle is too steep, then the bike will not squat enough, and the result will be poor traction. This is wheelspin If you can whack the gas, and the wheel spins up, then you need to lower the back of the bike.
One of these days i should post the lot of that someplace.
The other part that I think a lot of people miss is the rider. A tall bike may be intimidating for some riders, particularly those with short inseams and/or less experience, causing the rider to feel less in control and dislike the setup. Especially true on the street.
andyb,
i'm a near average 5'9", but i have a shorter 29" inseam. i've not had any mental problems (ahem!) while the bike is in motion. it has been a problem trying to maneuver the bike now that it's taller, and even stopping when on crowned roads and such, however. in fact, i think i did a dismount when i put my foot down in a non-existent piece of grass at a previous fj rally, that earned 9.5's from the group.
Dean, you're a little bastard such as myself, and as such you should save your points-earning displays of acrobatics for more important occasions.
I'm comfortable on ridiculously tall bikes (hello, 36" seat on dirtbikes/motards meets mister 29" inseam!), but I know a lot of my friends when learning to ride were quick to freeze up and freak out if they couldn't control the bike easily at a stop. Something about being unable to control the bike easily at a standstill translated into some twitchiness when at speed, nevermind that they're different completely, it was a definite mental block.
Then again I understand many people are not quite as psychotic as I am when I ride, so power to them. :)
Increase the rider height?
Cuban Heeled riding boots :smile: ????
Regarding that Progressive rear spring: I asked the seller, and he just replied that the dimensions are: ID is 61.5 mm, OD is 91.5 mm, free length is 179 mm.
Since I've never had my shock off the bike, much less apart, I'll leave it to the more experienced to advise whether it might work as a replacement spring on a '91 shock...
That spring will only work with the earlier bikes unless you make a sleeve/spacer to fit. the late model shock spring measures 58mm I.D. and the free legnth is appx 181mm. installed the stock late model spring is 170mm.
I found an eibach spring at lindemann engineering that measures 58mm I.D. and has a free length of 7" (177.8mm) that should work well on the late model bikes. possibly with a custom 3.2mm spacer but I can probably work around the legnth.
http://www.le-suspension.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=37 (http://www.le-suspension.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=37)
What I now need to know is what the stock spring rate. I mentioned earlier that I thought that the Traxxion Penske was specified with a 900in/lb spring (16.0kg/mm) but have also seen a post where Chris Murphy went with a 1300lb spring on his penske. I suspect that the 900 is closer to what you need, but I would really like to know what the stock spring is so that I can calculate the difference using the stock shock which is not nearly as adjustable as the Penske for adapting to different spring legnths. Anything we do will be a compromise.
Thanks, the fan,
I was mostly just wanting to toss out the numbers on the Progressive spring in case anybody was interested - I'd figured the diameter difference meant I couldn't use it, but I'd've been happy to be wrong in that assumption. ;)
Yes, I'd seen the Eibach spring. I have their struts on my Toyota so they were one of the first sites I checked.
And yes, it'd be interesting to know the stock spring rate. Surely that datum is around somewhere...
But for the present, my main concern is getting my forks and front brakes sorted out... and wouldn't you know it, the brake kits arrive today and the weatherman is saying the next three days are going to be the hottest yet this year!
Wishing I had an air-conditioned garage...
Cheers,
threejagsteve
3Jags,
I've dug out my old notes on rear springs for the '91+ and I have some info for you.
The OEM spring is approx 700lb/in rate. A rate of 900 to 1000 would be much better.
IMO, a rate much higher than this would not be good for general street use unless you are much fatter than I am, @ 220lbs.
We did have some springs made that were ~1100 lb/in as well as a bit too long and they were not very comfortable even two up. They also overpowered the damping the OEM spring had.
Do you happen to know the spring rate of that progressive spring?
While the OEM ID is 58mm a spring with an ID of 61.5mm would be no problem as long as you put a centering lip on the spring seat. Remember that you set preload with the ramped adjuster and if you don't have enough preload via the adjustment, you can add some additional with a thicker seat. This is NOT a critical spec, but you do need to get your preload correct.
Cheeers,
Arnie
Thanks, Arnie!
Valuable information and good to know!
Yes, 900 lbs/in. is probably about right. I wouldn't be close to 220 even soaking wet with a case of beer under each arm. And I don't want to go so extreme that the bike is miserable around town.
Cheers,
threejagsteve
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 15, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
Basic no frills Penske Sport from Traxxion Dynamics, $625: http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx)
Old linky no worky heres the new one http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx)
That is all :sarcastic:
Quote from: TRoy on November 24, 2009, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 15, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
Basic no frills Penske Sport from Traxxion Dynamics, $625: http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx)
Old linky no worky heres the new one http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx)
That is all :sarcastic:
That's the same link!
Quote from: Dan Filetti on November 25, 2009, 06:18:17 AM
Quote from: TRoy on November 24, 2009, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 15, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
Basic no frills Penske Sport from Traxxion Dynamics, $625: http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxion.com/detail-57.aspx)
Old linky no worky heres the new one http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx)
That is all :sarcastic:
That's the same link!
Read them again... :crazy:
Randy T
Indy
Thanks Randy!
Quote from: TRoy on November 24, 2009, 10:29:39 AM
Old linky no worky heres the new one http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx (http://traxxionstore.com/detail-57.aspx)
That is all :sarcastic:
Order Confirmation
Thank you for your order, Troy Suiter.
Your order number is: 18648
Date of order: 2/18/2010 8:50 AM
Product Information
Penske Sport Shock by Traxxion Dynamics SPORT 1 $625.00 $625.00
Fork Spring Kits by Traxxion Dynamics TDFS 1 $109.95 $109.95
Vented Shock Sock by Traxxion Dynamics VSS 1 $16.95 $16.95
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Order Total: $751.90
Whoo hoo tRoy :good2: ...you gonna love what that shock will do to your bike. Whats with the "vented" shock sock. Sumthin new?? Don't think mine has vents...;)..
Cheers...Jake
Yo TRoy!
Thanks for including the Order Number!!
I just called them and"corrected" the shipping address. It should arrive in a few days. :-)
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 19, 2010, 09:39:10 AM
Yo TRoy!
Thanks for including the Order Number!!
I just called them and"corrected" the shipping address. It should arrive in a few days. :-)
DavidR.
*snork* :biggrin:
tRoy,
What fork springs did you get? I went with .95 Progressives and didn't like 'em. Ended up with 1.0 Sonics...much better for me.
Traxxion shipped my Sport Shock with the wrong lower mount - clevis instead of eye - but they made it right and didn't even want the "wrong" one back. Nice folks to do business with.
Rossi
Steve, my Penske is cranked up pretty far. My rear wheel is ~1/2" from the ground on the centerstand. Further my stock fork springs are tired too, so the rake is "pretty steep" for a FJ, and stability IS NOT AN ISSUE, at least at any speeds I've ridden.
My2ยข.
I'm so excited :yahoo:
hehe, I did change the order # before posting..
I don't know what rate spring(s) I will get .. I ordered them for 1986 FJ1200 + 370lbs
Quote from: TRoy on February 19, 2010, 11:15:46 AM
I'm so excited :yahoo:
hehe, I did change the order # before posting..
Oh yeah, .... well I changed it back!
What spring are you getting on the shock? Jeff had me get 950# springs on both of my Sport Shocks. But Chris Murphy took his FJ into Traxxion and they wound up putting a 1200# spring on his. Just curious
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 19, 2010, 03:28:24 PM
What spring are you getting on the shock? Jef me 950# Chris Murphy 1200#
Quote from: TRoy on February 19, 2010, 11:15:46 AM
I don't know what rate spring(s) I will get .. I ordered them for 1986 FJ1200 + 370lbs
I'll let you know when they get here, or you let me know when they get there :sarcastic:
I have the 1200# spring on my 86 as well. I requested that spring after reading Chris M's report of his trip to Traxxion to fine tune his suspension. I don't know if that is the standard spring rate for our FJ's now, but I have been more than pleased with the performance of my shock, in tandem with the 1.0kg rate springs and emulators in the front end. All I had to compare to though was the stock shock and springs. The only other FJ's I have ridden have been stock. All I know is that she handles sooo much nicer... :good2:
Cheers...Jake
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 19, 2010, 03:28:24 PM
What spring are you getting on the shock?
I got my shock Friday! came with a 1400lb spring! 86FJ1200 + 370lbs (me + 150 misc lbs) ... set ride height, eyeballed the sag, turned the clicker to 10 clicks off full hard.. then went and rode the shit out of it. :good2:
Just FYI "The Triple Nickel" (Ohio rt 555) is totally covered with sand! (I can't imagine why :sarcastic:)
..fork springs are on backorder probably get them next week.
Wheres the best place to get cartridge emulators?
PS sorry Fred :empathy3:
TRoy...keep your eye open on any SV board. The early SV use the same emulator as our FJ. Check racetechs website for the part numbers to cross reference. I know there are lots of them on the track up here as we have an SV cup series. I managed to pick mine up on fleabay for 60 bucks...had been sitining on some guys shelf for so long the plastic packaging was gone yellow. Let me know if ya needs the inst's.
Cheers...Jake
Quote from: TRoy on March 08, 2010, 06:42:57 AM
I got my shock Friday! came with a 1400lb spring! 86FJ1200 + 370lbs (me + 150 misc lbs) ...
..fork springs are on backorder probably get them next week.
Wheres the best place to get cartridge emulators?
PS sorry Fred :empathy3:
(Finally) got another box from TraxxionD today! Fork springs 1.10!, & they had the emulators for $150!
..probably be a week or 2 before I can get them installed.......
Mike at SoupysPerformance sent me the following link:
http://www.soupysperformance.com/catalog/item/4408900/7936748.htm (http://www.soupysperformance.com/catalog/item/4408900/7936748.htm)
and is now selling adjustable dogbones for the later FJ1200.
I know most of us after a set of raising links. Soupy says: "if you would like them, place an order for the above lowering links and include a note in the comments on the right prior to adding to cart that says: 'raising links needed, per soupy'. Those raising links will be capable of raising the tail about 1.5 inches".
I ordered a set.
Bill.
Quote from: rlucas on February 19, 2010, 10:28:58 AM
Traxxion shipped my Sport Shock with the wrong lower mount - clevis instead of eye - but they made it right and didn't even want the "wrong" one back. Nice folks to do business with.
... so would it be accurate to say that the sport shock I have for sale (86) will fit all years, just gotta change the lower mount?
... hey Rock you still got that mount? :biggrin:
Quote from: TRoy on November 17, 2010, 03:42:28 PM
... so would it be accurate to say that the sport shock I have for sale (86) will fit all years, just gotta change the lower mount?
Not necessarily. I found this out on my '84.
To fit the YZF Thunder Ace swing arm on my '84, I had to convert over to a dogbone style rear linkage and install a '89 relay arm.
I already had a Penske shock I was using on my '84 and wanted to keep it, so I had to change out the lower eye over to a clevis to fit the '89 relay arm.
When I bolted it all together I found out that the shock length is different between the '84 and the '89 FJ's. i.e. the relay arm should hang at about the 8-9 o'clock position but with the longer shock the relay arm hangs at the 7 o'clock position. IOW the relay arm hangs lower with the longer '84 length shock.
I had to use longer dog bones to make it work, but technically with the long '84 Penske used with the '89 relay arm, the relay arm is in the wrong position.
I don't know what length shock the '86 uses, but I do know that my '84's shock (Penske or oem) is longer than the shocks on the 89+ FJ's
Can someone measure the length of the different shocks? I'll put the info. in the files. Cheers! Pat
thanks for the input Pat, hell who knows.... Traxxion says the length spec on the late model shock is actually longer but with less stroke :flag_of_truce:
...at any rate I got a really good shock for sale thats probably gonna fit 84-87 FJ's :sarcastic:
peace out!
on the contrary.... my stock '86 shock, this non-adjustable '86 progressive 420, and an oem clevis mount shock all measure the same... roughly 11 1/2", about 1/8" shorter than the penske I just took off.
I'm not sure what year the clevis shock came off of, Frank gave it to me for misc spare parts projects.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/medium_23_19_11_10_6_51_57.jpeg)
Quote from: TRoy on November 19, 2010, 06:58:08 AM
on the contrary.... my stock '86 shock, this non-adjustable '86 progressive 420, and an oem clevis mount shock all measure the same... roughly 11 1/2", about 1/8" shorter than the penske I just took off.
I'm not sure what year the clevis shock came off of, Frank gave it to me for misc spare parts projects.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/medium_23_19_11_10_6_51_57.jpeg)
Troy,
that shock was off a 89 model FJ
KOokaloo!
Ok that's good to know. The '86 shock is (roughly) the same length as the '89. Which then means that my '84 shock is longer than the '86 and '89 shocks.
Quote from: TRoy on November 19, 2010, 06:58:08 AM
on the contrary.... my stock '86 shock, this non-adjustable '86 progressive 420, and an oem clevis mount shock all measure the same... roughly 11 1/2", about 1/8" shorter than the penske I just took off.
I'm not sure what year the clevis shock came off of, Frank gave it to me for misc spare parts projects.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/medium_23_19_11_10_6_51_57.jpeg)
Excuse me for resurrecting an old thread but Id like to get some clarifications please
If I shorten the dogbones (either with the adjustable ones or with a single length) will I have to adjust the chain?
Am I better off adjustign the dogbones or getting a new shockie?
Can I achieve the same raising of the ride height through the use of just the adjustable shock or do I need both new shock and dogbones?
Is there anywhere in Australia (or Brisbane) I can get the dogbones or the Penske adjustable shock absorber
Im also a short legged fellow (5'8"ish) and Im a bit concerned about increasing seat height too much!
I went with a Hagon shock ('92 FJ), which is a fraction longer that OEM, and a lot cheaper than a Penske.
I also fitted Soupy's adjustable dogbones. If I had to do it again, I would fabricate my own dogbones, and drill holes accordingly.
Bill.
thanks Bill...
do you mean you would "only" do the dogbones?
I have the skill and access to the gear to manufacture my own dogbones... but what material?
It was worth my replacing the OEM shock - it was past its use-by date.
Got it here:
http://www.hagonoz.com.au/HagApps8.htm (http://www.hagonoz.com.au/HagApps8.htm)
Much better handling than the OEM - transformed the bike.
Dogbones - I had them on before the new shock, and it did the trick. Made cornering so much nicer.
Material - perhaps a galvanized steel, or even stainless, so that corrosion won't come in to it, and give you a nasty surprise one day.
When you drill them, drill both at once, so everything lines up nicely.
Bill.
Quote from: Tengu on August 21, 2011, 04:08:52 AM
If I shorten the dogbones (either with the adjustable ones or with a single length) will I have to adjust the chain?
Yes. It will be a bit tight. Back it off, adjust/swap dogbones, then set it as appropriate.
Quote
Am I better off adjustign the dogbones or getting a new shockie?
Depends on your budget. Changing the dogbones is definitely the easy way to play with ride height. Changing their length does alter the effective shock rate slightly, though right now I'm tired and not willing to figure out by how much :) The linkage is a rising rate the farther it's compressed, so a quick thinkthrough says it'll functionally soften the spring a bit on you.
QuoteCan I achieve the same raising of the ride height through the use of just the adjustable shock or do I need both new shock and dogbones?
Dogbones will adjust the height without much problem, and unless you're really pushing on a racetrack or the like it won't be hugely different than what you have as far as spring rate (theoretically if it's effectively softer, the damping will be working a bit differently, but it's going to be a mild change for sane street riding). A shock on the other hand would give you the ability to adjust preload, compression, and rebound to a huge degree compared to the stocker, nevermind likely being in much better shape than your current shock. Dogbones certainly aren't going to give you a hugely improved ride quality or feedback like a shock would! If you're really wanting it dialed in exactly for a vintage race class or the like, you'd want adjustability on both fronts, but it'd likely be overkill on the street.
Quote
Is there anywhere in Australia (or Brisbane) I can get the dogbones or the Penske adjustable shock absorber?
You can make dogbones from steel bar stock. 1/4 x 1.5" bars, a drill press, some measuring, and some patience is all that's necessary to make them. Maybe some paint. You can use aluminum if you'd like, but it may be the difference between riding home and walking if you have a wreck that overstresses them.
My ZX9R is wearing homemade links with two positions in them (two holes at one end) so that I can lower it to race. My FJ has a set of Soupy (http://www.soupysperformance.com/catalog/item/4408900/7936748.htm) links, which were stupidly expensive and are turning to rust slowly, but they're infinitely adjustable to exactly the height I want. If you go that route, email him before you order and tell him what adjustment range you want, as he usually makes them to only go lower. Mine go from +1/2" to -2.5" overall height so that I can lower the bike to race and raise it slightly on the street, but I had to specifically ask for them that way.
Quote
Im also a short legged fellow (5'8"ish) and Im a bit concerned about increasing seat height too much!
You can cut the foam of the seat down and recover it to keep seat height down a bit. More importantly, you can narrow the foam slightly, which will make a bigger difference. It's okay, I'm short too.
Just depends on your budget and your goals. Swapping dogbones is a really cheap way to make the bike a lot more responsive on turn-in, but a good shock is obviously going to do better things to the way it rides. At about 100 times the price, it'd better!
Quote from: Arnie on August 17, 2009, 09:13:48 AM
You can easily get more ride height (on the later model FJs) by making shorter "dogbones".
These are just 5 or 6mm flat steel with 12mm holes. Stock is 12.5cm c-to-c. IIRC 0.5cm shorter center to center on the holes = about an inch of ride height.
Cheers,
Arnie
Arnie, these numbers are spot on... I've been reading up on making dogbones for awhile now and finally fabricated some yesterday evening. I decided to go extreme my c-to-c measurement was 11cm, I figured that i didn't want to make a very little change that was barely noticeable, rather I made a very noticeable change....In fact tooo much!!! the fj feels like a big dirt bike now haha. its fun and looks great but i will have to make some more for a slight adjustment. Thanks Arnie and all those who helped.
2008 Yamaha Warrior and a 2002 Corvettte, Z51