I'm not going to be in the US for a couple months, as I'm on a trip on my XJ650 Maxim in Central America for a while and am thinking of settling down for a little bit in Nicaragua and living cheaply. But I've decided, after a few months of mulling over it, that I WILL buy an FJ as my next bike, and possibly the last bike I might ever want. At some point, you don't need any more speed... And I can't imagine wanting a modern sportbike bigger than a 650, MAYBE 750 unless I started going to a track to really learn on a regular basis, which I have no intention of doing soon. And what you might want then is more roll-on power, but the FJ supposedly was the roll-on king in its day and produces a ridiculous amount of torque, even by today's standards. An '08 Hayabusa, at 1300cc, still only beats an FJ12 by half a second to a second on the 1/4mile! And on top of that, comfort is paramount to me--I like long trips. And this bike seems to be that ideal balance of maximum power I'd want, no real weak spots in the powerband (maybe just some 'less powerful but still powerful' spots), and long-term driving comfort.
I'm willing to go a thousand miles or so to get the right one. I am just now deciding what the ideal FJ will look like. First off, I know I like the cosmetics of the Red/White scheme a lot, and am not fond of the black/blue--though some of the less common black schemes are ok. I think the fairing shape on the 90's models aren't nearly as attractive as the earlier fairings--can they be swapped? Also, if I am not mistaken, there were improvements made starting with the '88 model over the earlier yearmodels, right? How hard/expensive/much are the upgrades that were made to put on the earlier models? At what year did the rubber engine mounts all around appear?
Next, according to one review I read, they took them off the market in '87 before trying it out again as a sport-touring instead of superbike sales angle in '88. So why do I sometimes see '87 models?
Also, what are pannier/saddlebag options? Are there aftermarkets that fit well, were there good factory options, etc.?
I'm willing to get one that's a little bit of a project and not in perfect condition, but it does need to be driveable. I want one 1.8k or under as a starting price. And unless the upgrades aren't that substantial or aren't difficult/expensive to adapt to early models, I think i'd like it to be 88 or 89 (I think those are the last years they had the red/white scheme, right?), unless fairings can be swapped between early and late models.
Any comments, advice, etc.?
Also, as far as tranny 2nd gear issue... Does anyone ever go in and fix this? Are there any other internal engine problems that go bad after a certain mileage? (Example: on the XJ shafties, there is a plastic piece in the final drive that goes at this age on some bikes between 30k and 80k miles that you have to split the case to replace.)
I have 2 FJ's a 85 and a 90.The 85 is a better bike i.m.o.
Right off the bigger fairing is i.m.o. worse ergonomically than the smaller one on the 85.My 90 FJ needs more work than my 85 its my beater back up bike and some day it might contend with the 85 but for now the 85 handles stops and accelerates better than my 90 does.It looks better too with the Red and White colours.
Best FJ to me is a 85 with a built motor and some suspension and brake upgrades thats my goal.If I still have the 90 at that time then I will do the same to it and make the comparison again.
1985 FJ 1100 works for me........
I have to admit, bigger just seems better to me. It's harder to really believe an 1100 could be better than a 12. Surely the '90 is just in a worse state of tune?
It seems there were a couple of stock red/white color schemes, but so far I like them all (maybe 3 I've seen?)
Also, it appears that the review I read was wrong and it's the '88 that America didn't get, and that the 89 and 90 had the upgrades and were the last year with the old fairing? But according to flying scotsman, the fairing was different by '90? So am I shooting for an '89 here?
The red and white scheme ended in 87.
It was the 88 year model that wasn't offered in the us.
The 91 was the first year for the rubber mounted engine.
To get the better brakes on the front, you'll need to get at least the 89 model year, or be willing to swap 89-93 forks on to the 84-87 year models.
I'm sure others will be able to help further.
Leon
Fairing sizes grew larger was the year went by.
84-85
86-87
89-90
91-93
The 91 was the year ABS was an option, had the largest fairing, rubber engine mounts and the headlight with the bottom corners more rounded.
There's also this black color scheme that I've never seen before, with no year given: http://alabama.freeshopperads.com/motorcycles/yamaha-fj1200-sporttourer.html (http://alabama.freeshopperads.com/motorcycles/yamaha-fj1200-sporttourer.html)
Bummer that the red/white ended in '87. :(
I'd be fine swapping forks. Straightforward swap, I presume, yeah?
What suspension upgrades are available for these bikes in general? Do most of them have fairly saggy suspension by this time when still stock, or do they hold out?
I only thought there were two fairing shapes, that's good to know. Thanks indian. I'm going to have to look more closely between them and see which are best. Could I hear some more opinions on the pre-'91 fairings? (Sorry, I feel like the FJ lost its looks those last 3 years. Personal preference.) Anyone have a straightforward reference to show the different fairing styles?
How much of the upgrades from the last years are backwards compatible? All of them? Are the fairings all interchangeable between different models, or just some with some?
Lot of questions--if anyone feels like just directing me to old threads or giving me terms to search for, I'd be happy to just research on my own as well. Thanks so much for your help.
Ah ok! So I've searched and found them, and will upload them to my imageshack account and add links here for reference. They're uploading now.
I have to say, actually, that the white with very light red trip from the 89 models is also attractive. I was throwing that one in with the red/whites without realizing.
Also, this luggage set looks pretty awesome: http://rka-luggage.com/pages/14gallry/10yam/page3/pics/fj1291bi.jpg (http://rka-luggage.com/pages/14gallry/10yam/page3/pics/fj1291bi.jpg)
(Makes the 91 look pretty good, actually. ;) )
84:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img715/8757/84side.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/84side.jpg/)
86/87:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img839/2093/86front.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/86front.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img145/7327/86front2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/145/86front2.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/960/86sidestand.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/86sidestand.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img23/3687/87front.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/87front.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img684/2307/87rear.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/87rear.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img228/5389/87side.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/87side.jpg/)
89:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/6971/89side.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/89side.jpg/)
90:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/5145/90side.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/90side.jpg/)
Maybe a 90?
(http://imageshack.us/a/img62/253/90blackside.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/90blackside.jpg/)
91:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img198/2308/91sideluggage.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/91sideluggage.jpg/)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img694/9056/91frontl.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/91frontl.jpg/)
Quote from: fintip on September 22, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
There's also this black color scheme that I've never seen before, with no year given: http://alabama.freeshopperads.com/motorcycles/yamaha-fj1200-sporttourer.html (http://alabama.freeshopperads.com/motorcycles/yamaha-fj1200-sporttourer.html)
That's a '90, the color is actually a very dark metallic blue. The only black is the top of the tank, probably done to make touch-ups easy for tankbag users...
Nah, there's more than that. The lower edge of the sidepanels and tailsection, and the grab handles are all black.
It varies from a blue to a purple depending on the light. I'd think it'd be super difficult to photograph well.
It's a '90, and same color scheme as mine.
Everything above the top stripe is black, and everything below the botom stripe is black. The part in the middle changes from a dark blue, to purple depending on the lighting.
Check out Lotsokids bike, black with red, very cool.
Still no answer, though on this: Can the fairings be swapped out between years?
What's the net effect of the fairing changes? Scotsman, why is it worse ergonomically? After all this I've been leaning towards the white 89/90 model because of the suspension upgrades, but I could just find some forks and put them on the older one. How much do the forks alone run for?
How about other forks, though? Is it possible to get forks from other bikes like a (random example of a bike that I know had good handling) 90's gpz900 onto it? I know nothing about fork transplants, I've always only put factory forks back in. Maybe this is a bad idea for some reason, changing height or not being calibrated for the same weight, etc.?
What would a complete list if upgrades that are different between the 84 and 89 be? Could I hear some opinions and/or information on the fairings regarding issues other than cosmetics?
EDIT: Again answering my own question (feel free to add!) I found this mentioned in a favorable review of the 89:
Quote
That excellent stability results in part from replacing the old 2.75 by 16-inch front wheel with a lighter, cast-aluminum hollow-spoke 3.00 by 17-inch wheel and lower-profile tire. The rear is also a hollow-spoke design, but in the same 3.50 by 16-inch size as before.
The diameter of the low-profile, 70-series, 17-inch Dunlop K330 front is within millimeters of that of the 80-series 16-incher it replaces. Rake and trail remain the same at 27.5 degrees and 4.4 inches, as do the Kayaba fork's 41mm stanchion tubes. But the bike feels more stable, at least partly because the 70-series tire has less sidewall to flex.
Tire choice greatly affects a sport-bike's feel. The FJ was originally designed around 16-inch Pirellis purpose-built for Bimota. The front tire, although designated a 120/80, was actually 128mm wide. That tire's width and profile created steering torques that tried to stand the previous FJ up abruptly when braking into corners. It also contributed to the bike's unwillingness to change lines in mid-corner.
The new 17-inch front Dunlop, though also designated a 120, is considerably narrower at 117mm, and helps the FJ's steering considerably. The tendency to stand up under braking while leaned over is much less pronounced, and the bike changes headings in mid-corner more readily, although it still requires more effort than do modern superbikes. Overall, the new tire makes the bike feel more precise, and minimizes its handling quirks at the bargain cost of a minor increase in steering effort.
While fitting those new wheels, Yamaha engineers decided to graft on new front brakes, as well. Larger, 298mm floating discs replace the old 280mm solid-mount rotors, and they're squeezed by four-pot calipers in place of the previous model's twin-piston units. Yamaha's ineffectual anti-dive has been shown the dumpster and is rarely missed; especially now that spring rates are stiffer. The radially vented rear disc is unchanged, and is still one of the best rear brakes around, offering excellent feel and power - especially with a passenger. The brake upgrade doesn't necessarily allow the bike to stop any faster but the '89 does require less effort, and feeds back reliable information.
Some things never change, thankfully. This motor will still leave bruises on your heart from constantly banging it into your spinal column. A regimen of gradual refinement has made it even stronger throughout its rev band. Displacement increased to 1188cc with 3mm-large bores in '86, and the '89 FJ improves or that engine with a more precise, digitally controlled spark-advance unit. A new electric fuel pump satisfies the 36mm Mikuni constant-vacuum carburetors, which have one-size-leaner main jets for fewer nasty emissions.
Only thing that worries me in that last is the addition of a fuel pump; if it fails, are you stranded? Does one notice the difference? As far as the leaner jets, screw emmissions, this model produced one less hp; is that where it went? What is the forum consensus on ideal jetting?
All things being equal, the 89 should handle better than the 84, right? Scotsman, what contributes exactly to your experience riding? Does the front wheel feel less stable, are the forks more spongy, or what? Any chance your wheel is wider than what's intended for it?
my bike as pictured << is an 84 with 89 body work , forks ect ect, , I changed fairings originally because no 84 fairings available when I needed one, , just required front side mounts and the mounts at the lower front under the headlight to make it fit , , guessing any forks with 41mm dia will fit, but different story Making them actually perform , , rpm has fork valves and springs that transform the Fj forks into ones that actually work perfectly
The fuel pump can be bypassed into gravity feed to get home, maybe not full on Kookaloo but not exactly limp home speed either. You will need a small bit O' hose and a fitting to keep in your tool kit but not the end of the world if the pump quits.
Quote from: fintip on September 23, 2012, 07:30:53 PM
Only thing that worries me in that last is the addition of a fuel pump; if it fails, are you stranded? Does one notice the difference? As far as the leaner jets, screw emmissions, this model produced one less hp; is that where it went? What is the forum consensus on ideal jetting?
You could expect to replace a fuel pump maybe once in the life of the bike and they improve the reliability of fuel flow. The forum is full of fuel problems, even today, that are gravity feed specific. The problem is the lack of pressure. With the tank mounted immediately above the motor there is very little head (pressure) and it takes very little to interupt the fuel flow.
I do a lot of work on vintage cars and one of the most common reliability fixes is the addition of a fuel pump to cars built in the 20's and 30's that were originally gravity fed, and the tanks on those generally sit a lot higher than the bike.
When was the last time you car left you stranded on the side of the road with a dead fuel pump?
If I had an early model bike I would fit a fuel pump to it.
In terms of model/year hunting, the rubber mounted engine on the later bikes alone would seal the deal for me.
The FJ is as smooth as my previously owned Goldwing and CBX1000 (6 cyl) and I do a lot of trips so this appeals to me.
Noel
A fuel pump FJ can have routing troubles as well, though I gather it's a little less sensitive.
One solution may be the early (carb'd) YZF-R6 pump's right-angle outlets, which would let you run the fuel lines well away from potential trouble. Other than the pump and wiring/relay for it, the float needle seats are a different size on the pump-equipped models. Not a big deal, but be aware of it.
To limp home with your dysfunctional pump out of the loop doesn't even require spare tubing, if you carry a knife to modify the hose lengths and have the tools to move things around. A leatherman would probably suffice if you were desperate.
The fairings will interchange if you do some work with the mountings, I understand. At worst, a matching stay will be needed.
If you're swapping forks around, the later forks will bolt right up, but the calipers and brakes won't fit unless you swap the entire assembly, wheel and all. That nets you a 17x3.0 wheel as well as the ability to go to monoblock brakes (upgrading your upgrade, yes). If you're really into it, nearly anything will fit if you're willing to make clamps, but pay attention to retaining the speedometer drive if you'd like to keep it.
Of course, once you're looking at swapping forks, you may as well start looking more carefully still and try to figure a 17x3.5 wheel into the mix as well. There's a couple options that aren't too horrific. Search a bit, there's a big listing of available options.
Ok. That's all good info. And while that makes the fuel pump sound lovely, at least for this model, I have never heard of problems with gravity-fed XJ's. And as far as being stuck because of a fuel pump, a friend had a truck that had to be towed home instead of being driven home from halfway across Texas to work on it--only problem was the fuel pump.
But if a gravity-fed solution is available, then it's no concern and only a boon. :good2:
ribbert, the CBX1000 is one bike I would love to see in person one day. I have done a lot of reading on that bike. A real piece of history. When you say the FJ is 'as smooth', are you referring to power/transmission, or handling, or... ?
Or maybe vibration, and thus the placement of your rubber mount comment? You mention the rubber mounts on the 'later models'; are they only on the 91 and later models? I know discarding the later bikes because of the fairing appearance sounds shallow... But like with women: if she doesn't turn you on, is it even really worth it? From what I understand, the vibration certainly isn't *bad* on the earlier models, just not as severe... And aren't rubber mounts available/being made available for the earlier years from RPM?
As far as attaching fairings, I'm not averse to almost any amount of modification or learning, but I don't know what you mean by 'clamps' in this context, though I am making something up in my mind. Not too hard, I'd imagine? I've never had a faired bike--only naked. Anyways, fairing swap sounds definitely doable... Anyone have an idea of how difficult retro-mounting an earlier fairing onto a 91 bike would be? Are we talking 2 to 4 hours of work, or 10?
Do the 91 series have any negatives? Were they ever down-tuned to suit their 'sport touring' angle?
Thanks guys, this is incredibly helpful.
Andyb, I imagine that's the route I'd go, just finding a whole front end set-up. How hard is that?
Quote from: fintip on September 24, 2012, 12:11:20 AM
ribbert, the CBX1000 is one bike I would love to see in person one day. I have done a lot of reading on that bike. A real piece of history. When you say the FJ is 'as smooth', are you referring to power/transmission, or handling, or... ?
quote][/color][/color]
I was referring to engine vibration at cruising speeds.
Of the 30 or so bikes I've owned, that is the only bike I desperately wish I still had, it was the Prolink model.
Other than being very smooth there was nothing outstanding about it to ride but I could sit down with a drink and just stare at that motor.
I found some redeeming feature, something to like in every bike I've owned, and there were some nice ones, ( except one, a Yamaha XS 650, what a dog of a machine )but happy to have enjoyed them and move on to something else, but I'd love to still have the CBX sitting in the garage.
Noel
I like the smaller fairing because it creates less drag than the bigger ones it also seems to put the wind on my helmet at a better position that makes less wind noise.my 90 should have better brakes than my 85 but the front brake on my 90 needs a little work,the disks are worn in a strange patern and when I brake they grab in spots.Easy to lock up and limits how much I can use it.My 90 also has a slow leak in the rear tyre so if I take it out i need to air it up.Handling gets crap as the air presure drops.Both my bikes have undercut transmision's but the 85 shifts easy and smooth.The 90 has a shift shaft that sticks a little.All these little things make the 90 less fun to ride.
The bottom line is ALL years are good I just like the older bike because it looks great and still does evrything good.I dont have suspensio upgrades but will in time.Both the 85 and the 90 will go like stink and when the 85 is getting worked on I have no problem wheeling the 90 out and giving her a thrashing.
My analasis of your situation is unless your stuck on a particular year then look at all available FJ's and pick the best one.
I like the smaller fairing 84-85 bikes and I like the Red White and Red Silver colours they come in.
Hope this helps you understand where im coming from.
Scott.......
Out of curiousity, how tall are you, Scotsman? Do you wear a fullface?
Thanks for that answer, that helps a lot.
Im short 180 lb 5'6".Full face and a Go pro on it on occasion.
Found this page: http://fjclub.co.uk/#/buying-a-fj/4546920434 (http://fjclub.co.uk/#/buying-a-fj/4546920434)
I really wish I could test drive the different models so I could get a feel myself for which is better. I'm totally baffled by some people saying the FJ11 feels better than the 12's as far as performance. The fairing thing is also a bit difficult to decide without trying out for myself. :dash2:
I'm banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what is best. Right now I think I'd go for any of the first three generations. I *think* the ideal right now sounds like:
-One of the first two generations for fairing--the original FJ11 sounds like it had the most attractive 'sporty' fairing, but 2nd gen fairing had a lot of functional upgrades: the mirrors, the clock, the movement of the choke location, the fuel reserve switch... The third generation might also be fine, I just need to see in person. Vastly prefer the white/white+red color schemes in whatever generation. How hard would repainting the fairing of a different color to a factory scheme be? Looks a lot trickier than doing one color.
-Undecided on which engine of the first 3 generations for performance, as I find contradictory opinions and am just baffled. Anyone have some good dyno graphs they can point me to?
-Fuel pump from the 3rd generation (can this be installed onto the first two generations? Does it make a difference when you do so?)
-Front end (shocks, no anti-dive, calipers, 17in narrow wheel) from the 3rd generation
-Gas tank from the first generation (largest, size decreased from second generation on apparently; does this just fit without any mod onto the later generations? Does it look at all out of place?); however, the 2nd generation introduced a flat gas cap, for fitting on tankbags. Will the gascap from later generations fit into the gastank for the FJ11?
-Aftermarket rubber mounts for the earlier generations (do these exist? in the first three generations the engine was a 'stressed member', not so in the last gen; does that matter?)
:wacko1:
How does this sound?
Quote from: fintip on September 25, 2012, 03:58:26 PM
I'm banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what is best. Right now I think I'd go for any of the first three generations.
Mate, welcome to the club, but seriously, just buy an FJ any year any model that looks good, and runs ok. Personalise it from there. You won't regret it. I have a '92 and I think it's the best bike in the world. FJ Monkey has a ambulence, and he thinks it's the best bike in the world. Once you have ridden yours, what ever model you love will it too and be convinced it is the best bike in the world and contract incurable moditis immediately.
Good luck in your hunt!
James
Haha, an ambulance? Is that a nickname for the Red/White models?
Really, just buy any of them, and it will be the best bike you've had.
I have an 86 with an 89 suspension to eliminate the anti-dive (previous owner did the swap), and it's the nicest bike I've ridden. Originally bought it to pull the motor and parts the bike out, but after riding it, just couldn't do it.
My $.02
How hard was that suspension swap? Are swaps from FZ's of the era bolt on, or is even that one? That's pretty crucial to me, I have 0 desire to have an anti-dive fork system.
I think at this point I'll just consider all of the first 3 generations equally and go from there. None of them are perfect, all of them look pretty great.
Quote from: fintip on September 25, 2012, 07:07:49 PM
Haha, an ambulance? Is that a nickname for the Red/White models?
Yes...
Quote from: fintip on September 25, 2012, 07:59:09 PM
How hard was that suspension swap? Are swaps from FZ's of the era bolt on, or is even that one? That's pretty crucial to me, I have 0 desire to have an anti-dive fork system.
89' and up are best as they accept the Blue Dot calipers as bolt on.... I have 89' forks and the much sought after 3.5" x 17" front wheel.
The '84 to '87 model will need an upgrade to a 17 inch front wheel. Could be a later model 3 inch or other model 3.5 inch wheel. After that it's personal preference.
I have an '85 and by far the most amazing mod was the front wheel upgrade. I also love my '93. Wouldn't ever sell either one.
DavidR.
Sorry, just to clarify... I am thinking you mean: '89 and up FZ forks are best, as they will accept Blue Dot calipers bolt on. (What are blue dot calipers?)
Or are you saying '89 FJ's accept the FZ caliper as bolt-on? (And are the forks bolt on to the 89 and later, or even to the earlier ones?)
How hard is it to find the 17" wheel with forks (or both separately)? Are there any other options other than 89 and later bikes being parted out? How much do they run for?
What are you referring to by 3", OldGuy? Is that width of the tire? I wasn't aware that the tire had more than one change, I thought they just switched in '89 to narrower, taller tires, and left it at that. Or are you talking about something else?
Any chance you can comment on the difference in feel between those two bikes? Both in regards to performance as well as fairing effect.
Quote from: fintip on September 25, 2012, 09:17:04 PM
Sorry, just to clarify... I am thinking you mean: '89 and up FZ forks are best, as they will accept Blue Dot calipers bolt on. (What are blue dot calipers?)
Or are you saying '89 FJ's accept the FZ caliper as bolt-on? (And are the forks bolt on to the 89 and later, or even to the earlier ones?)
How hard is it to find the 17" wheel with forks (or both separately)? Are there any other options other than 89 and later bikes being parted out? How much do they run for?
What are you referring to by 3", OldGuy? Is that width of the tire? I wasn't aware that the tire had more than one change, I thought they just switched in '89 to narrower, taller tires, and left it at that. Or are you talking about something else?
Any chance you can comment on the difference in feel between those two bikes? Both in regards to performance as well as fairing effect.
89' and up means FJ year forks, blue Dots are more modern era brake calipers (also bolt on are nearly identical Gold Dots, slightly better). FJ (sport touring) parts, 3" wide were offered as standard wheel (rim) width, Sport bikes like FZR had 3.5", 87/88 years are bolt on. Wider tire gets more rubber on the road, better traction. As far as feel..... like the first time....... :good:
Here you go...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3295989428.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3295989428.html)
Nice looking, good running '89 for $2,150 obo.
Frank
Quote from: Flynt on September 25, 2012, 09:51:57 PM
Here you go...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3295989428.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3295989428.html)
Nice looking, good running '89 for $2,150 obo.
Frank
And the hits just keep coming..... Good find Frank...
The '89+ front wheel can be used on the early FJs. You will need the wheel and brake discs, axle, and lower fork sliders. This will allow (require) you to use the monoblock calipers from an R1, R6, FZ1, Warrier, FJR.
3 inch is the width of the FJ wheel. Later FZ wheels are 3.5 inch. The 3 inch wheel is a good enough upgrade to start with on an early model. The overall diameter of the old 16 inch wheel/tire combo is practically identical to the newer 17 inch wheel/tire.
My '85 1100 is stronger than my '93 1200, but it's got some enhancements (Wiseco 1188 pistons, degreed cams). Both bikes are fun to ride, it a toss up as to which bike I choose on a given day. The '93 fairing has a little more coverage. Nothing radical, not worth excluding the later models from consideration.
There's no such thing as a bad FJ, just a bad owner.
DavidR.
I thought the narrower wheel conveyed an advantage to the FJ? From the reviews I read, the problem with the 16 in wheels is that they were quite wide, and the 17 inch wheels were much narrower, which solved its tendency to want to right itself coming up out of corners.
QuoteThat excellent stability results in part from replacing the old 2.75 by 16-inch front wheel with a lighter, cast-aluminum hollow-spoke 3.00 by 17-inch wheel and lower-profile tire. The rear is also a hollow-spoke design, but in the same 3.50 by 16-inch size as before.
The diameter of the low-profile, 70-series, 17-inch Dunlop K330 front is within millimeters of that of the 80-series 16-incher it replaces. Rake and trail remain the same at 27.5 degrees and 4.4 inches, as do the Kayaba fork's 41mm stanchion tubes. But the bike feels more stable, at least partly because the 70-series tire has less sidewall to flex.
Tire choice greatly affects a sport-bike's feel. The FJ was originally designed around 16-inch Pirellis purpose-built for Bimota. The front tire, although designated a 120/80, was actually 128mm wide. That tire's width and profile created steering torques that tried to stand the previous FJ up abruptly when braking into corners. It also contributed to the bike's unwillingness to change lines in mid-corner.
The new 17-inch front Dunlop, though also designated a 120, is considerably narrower at 117mm, and helps the FJ's steering considerably. The tendency to stand up under braking while leaned over is much less pronounced, and the bike changes headings in mid-corner more readily, although it still requires more effort than do modern superbikes. Overall, the new tire makes the bike feel more precise, and minimizes its handling quirks at the bargain cost of a minor increase in steering effort.
So I'm confused. I see 3.00 by 17 in tires, but I also see 117mm width (which equals 4.5 inches). Is the 117 actually a measurement of sidewall width, and I was getting that confused?
That would make sense, actually, and would explain everything. I think I just answered my own question again.
The problem with the later fairings is the shape looks bad to me--large and unsporting--and I dislike all of the color schemes. Also, I wonder about the sporting effects of making the engine no longer a stressed member, though I haven't ridden either so it's just speculation. The steel frame instead of aluminum. It just seems like Yamaha had finally completely given up the sport side and gone further and further to the touring side. They just all look kind of dorky to me. It's really just a matter of me not being able to fall in love with those bikes; it's gotta be the inside
and the outside, you know? To each their own. I'm sure they're still wonderful bikes, since they're 95+% the same. Just not what I'm in love with.
Right, so, the ideal front end setup is 89/later forks, blue dot/gold dot brakes (just, modern brakes off an R1/R6/FZ1/FJR/Warrier) (can I not use the brakes off an 89/later FJ? Aren't those fine? If/when I start taking the bike to a track, I could understand the need for higher grade brakes, but with three discs I can't imagine finding the upgraded from previous year stock brakes inadequate or anything), and either a 3in 89/later wheel (better) or a 3.5in later FZ wheel (best)
As for me, I'm banging myself over the head... Found a great choice at an amazing price from all three gen's tonight:
85 for $1500: http://boulder.craigslist.org/mcy/3251931313.html (http://boulder.craigslist.org/mcy/3251931313.html)
86 for $1800: http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/3238384496.html (http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/3238384496.html)
90 for $1300: http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/mcy/3292035695.html (http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/mcy/3292035695.html) (silver, unfortunately, and not straight white... Wonder if I could just paint the silver parts red easily enough...)
All within 1.25k miles of Austin.
Quote from: fintip on September 25, 2012, 03:58:26 PM
Found this page: http://fjclub.co.uk/#/buying-a-fj/4546920434 (http://fjclub.co.uk/#/buying-a-fj/4546920434)
I really wish I could test drive the different models so I could get a feel myself for which is better. I'm totally baffled by some people saying the FJ11 feels better than the 12's as far as performance. The fairing thing is also a bit difficult to decide without trying out for myself. :dash2:
I'm banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what is best. Right now I think I'd go for any of the first three generations. I *think* the ideal right now sounds like:
-One of the first two generations for fairing--the original FJ11 sounds like it had the most attractive 'sporty' fairing, but 2nd gen fairing had a lot of functional upgrades: the mirrors, the clock, the movement of the choke location, the fuel reserve switch... The third generation might also be fine, I just need to see in person. Vastly prefer the white/white+red color schemes in whatever generation. How hard would repainting the fairing of a different color to a factory scheme be? Looks a lot trickier than doing one color.
-Undecided on which engine of the first 3 generations for performance, as I find contradictory opinions and am just baffled. Anyone have some good dyno graphs they can point me to?
-Fuel pump from the 3rd generation (can this be installed onto the first two generations? Does it make a difference when you do so?)
-Front end (shocks, no anti-dive, calipers, 17in narrow wheel) from the 3rd generation
-Gas tank from the first generation (largest, size decreased from second generation on apparently; does this just fit without any mod onto the later generations? Does it look at all out of place?); however, the 2nd generation introduced a flat gas cap, for fitting on tankbags. Will the gascap from later generations fit into the gastank for the FJ11?
-Aftermarket rubber mounts for the earlier generations (do these exist? in the first three generations the engine was a 'stressed member', not so in the last gen; does that matter?)
:wacko1:
How does this sound?
It sounds like you're over thinking it a bit. What minor differences there were when new no longer apply as these bikes are all now around a quarter of a century old and have been subjected to all sorts of treatment, servicing, tinkering and tuning. As I said the other day, there is an endless list of variables that effects how each bike now runs, and unlike when they were new, every FJ out there would now feel different in some respect to ride, and that includes power delivery.
Like any vehicle with a decade long production run, improvements are picked up along the way and the later model you buy the less you will have to upgrade.
You do sound a little like someone choosing a new bike from a catalogue and deciding on options.
Given the age of these machines, finding a good clean example with the right credentials of any model will be challlenge enough, locking yourself into a particular year is only going to make the search that much harder.
If you want a nice bike, that will probably decide the year model.
As someone said today, they're 95% the same, don't ovet think it, just go out and find the best one you can and enjoy it.
Noel
Haha. I'm the one who just said they're 95% the same.
And yeah, I completely agree with you. This is my way of handling the long wait to 'christmas'. I'm FJ obsessed and I've got no outlet. I spent the better part of yesterday researching it. (I get kind of crazy into researching things when I'm hooked; I didn't know anything about motorcycle mechanics until I started late last spring. Now I feel comfortable considering putting a motorcycle together from pieces, and tuning it to boot. If that's any indicator of obsessive research...)
But anyways, I feel like I can be a smart buyer now when I finally get around to it. I think I've finally kicked the horse until it died. I just need to figure out what the price and difficulty of adding a fuel pump & front fork set up would be, what putting a different year's fairing would actually entail (I read that actually none of the gens bolt on to each other),
But I think I understand the balance between the three generations I'm looking at to consider them with their pros and cons pretty fairly at this point. Thanks so much for answering my questions, guys. Promise it'll pay off when I have the bike and am answering the questions for the other newbies, as I will surely become a wealth of information, haha. :)
Best,
Kyle
Though, as an interesting closing: Which of those three I listed would you (anyone here) buy/consider the best deal/think was best for me?
If that '90 has been run for long without the scoop on the side, it is possible the engine has been cooked a bit... those scoops send most of the cooing air to the center of the head. Even if the engine is OK, the lack of understanding that the scoop should be there casts doubt on the owner. I'd look elsewhere and have seen much nicer '90s. :negative:
The '85 is a big project... every mod you can find here will need to be done to get it up to snuff most likely. It may be a challenge getting it to even run decent, so no immediate Kookaloo for you on this path. Unless you want to restore and perfect an original (talk to Pat), I'd run from this one. :dash1:
The '86 looks well cared for and has several hundred $$ of newer parts... I think you'd get a chance to ride and fall in love with it before needing to do much of anything mod wise. Then the stuff Monkey has done can be worked on piece by piece for years of modding fun (maybe months for us obsessive types). I know what I'd pick. :good:
Frank