Well, I have, in my hands the first RPM rear shock to start testing.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/Rear%20Shock%20001_zps1a3fc0fb.jpg)
Fitment will be started today and then testing should start this weekend. This is the early model shock and the late model is supposed to be be shipped by the end of the week. If so, that one will be fitted by next weekend and the testing will begin on that one as well.
There will be several thousand miles put on the shocks with changes to valving completed, spring rates tested and settings fine tuned.
Since we still have a couple of months of good weather before winter really hits, we should not have much trouble getting the testing completed, the changes made and the production started.
It has been a long time waiting and I believe the results will be worth the wait.
Randy - RPM
Awesome Randy, thanks for the update. Wish I lived close enough to be one of your test subjects. You could then state that your shock was monkey tested and Power Ranger approved.
Looks like a damn fine christmas present suggestion!
Whos with me ?
Leon
Where is the remote gas charge thingy? (Jargon)
I anticipated it to have a gas charged can hanging off, no? [asks the guy without an FJ]
Dan
^ Piggyback reservoir
Quote from: Dan Filetti on September 19, 2012, 01:30:28 PM
Where is the remote gas charge thingy? (Jargon)
I anticipated it to have a gas charged can hanging off, no? [asks the guy without an FJ]
Dan
Not required and should not be required unless drastic changes must be made to the shock body. The shock body is large enough to get all of the required oil volume and valving requires completed in the unit and not have to rely on the remote type reservoir.
The reservoir is only required for universal shocks that are
not specifically designed your the FJ and additional valving must be added due to the weight of the bike.
I had a shock that is designed and going to be specifically manufactured to fit the FJ. It is not a universal application that will be able to change the ends and it will fit any other bike like the other shock options on the market.
Randy - RPM
Just started to twitch a little in excitement and started looking for a buy now button. Gonna have to get that item for my 86 and get the buy impulse looked at by trained professionals. :)
I don't see any ride height or compression/rebound damping adjustments? :-(
DavidR.
There is a coil over adjuster on it
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 02:19:10 PM
I don't see any ride height or compression/rebound damping adjustments?
DavidR.
The sag will be controlled by the coil over adjustment at the spring, what else are you looking for regarding "ride height" adjustment?
Plus every shock will have the bearing at the coil over adjustment nut for ease of adjustment. (it is there too if you look closely)
No, there are no compression or rebound adjustments. We have moved past the 80's technology and they are no longer required with the valving of the RPM shock and/or the RPM fork valves. This shock is going to be going through several thousand miles of testing, multiple different riders & bikes, single and dual riders, with & without luggage and will be set to be the best overall combination for performance and comfort.
Just like the RPM fork valves it can be tuned on an individual basis, but the RPM shock you get right off the shelf is going to be a wildly significant improvement over the stock shock as well as any other shock currently. Based on the dyno testing the RPM shock is superior to the other shocks on the market with the benefit of the inertia bypass valve for better comfort. The reason no one else has this valving is that is is patented in multiple design versions and no other shock manufacture, Penske, Ohlin or anyone else for that matter has anything comparable.
This shock, just like the RPM fork valves, has taken the next step past the dated technology you get when you buy any other universal suspension product that had been adapted to fit the FJ. That is why they have to include the adjustments so that you can make it work for the FJ.
RPM suspension products are designed, tested and tuned specifically for the FJ; not a universal product adapted to fit and work on the FJ.
Didn't we have the same discussion when I introduced the RPM fork valves :scratch_one-s_head:
Randy - RPM
Since the 84 to 87 years don't have dog bones, the shock length is used to raise and lower the rear wheel. Will the RPM shock have the function to raise and or lower the rear wheel?
Hummana Hummana Hummana! Sorry momentarily lost the power of speech. Andy u sexy beast, an eibach coil! I have had these on numerous high performance vehicles and they rock! Loads of eibach gear about in europe and the uk! Very well respected. Is there more eibach wizardry or just the spring.
I love the fit and forget ethos! I can't be doing with all the fafing about! Infinite adjustment is a Stayed tech from the early nineties, look at all the new springs on the open access rear ends of new Hondas, suzukis and yams, no reservoirs (I will admit many seem to be gas of some description as they have a yellow explosion warning triangle on them but just as many are oil based)
Did panic for :biggrin:a moment when i saw the pic that it was not for the late model, but I was comforted as I read on!
Don't suppose the spring comes in blue?
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 19, 2012, 02:50:12 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 02:19:10 PM
I don't see any ride height or compression/rebound damping adjustments?
DavidR.
Just like the RPM fork valves it can be tuned on an individual basis, but the RPM shock you get right off the shelf is going to be a wildly significant improvement over the stock shock as well as any other shock currently. Based on the dyno testing the RPM shock is superior to the other shocks on the market with the benefit of the inertia bypass valve for better comfort. The reason no one else has this valving is that is is patented in multiple design versions and no other shock manufacture, Penske, Ohlin or anyone else for that matter has anything comparable.
So who does own/control the patent? I guess you or your
Manufacturer?
Is the manufacturer eibach? Oh dear god let it be eibach!!!!
Any ball park on price for early and late models?
Quote from: nurse on September 19, 2012, 03:23:48 PM
So who does own/control the patent? I guess you or your
Manufacturer?
The manufacture does, if I owned it I would be making shocks not selling FJ parts...
Fortunately they are willing to work with me to bring the FJ suspension components to FJ enthusiast.
It is really hard to get companies to work with me manufacturing items for a bike that was last sold on the U.S. Yamaha sales floor in 1993, almost 20 years ago.
Randy - RPM
Its like an addiction: we´re still considering and saving to buy the fork valves and there is another gadget on the way...
MMMMmmmmmmm Randy, do you know that there is an economic crisis and that you could be the guilty of lots of divorces? :sarcastic:
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 19, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Well, I have, in my hands the first RPM rear shock to start testing.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/Rear%20Shock%20001_zps1a3fc0fb.jpg)
Fitment will be started today and then testing should start this weekend. This is the early model shock and the late model is supposed to be be shipped by the end of the week. If so, that one will be fitted by next weekend and the testing will begin on that one as well.
There will be several thousand miles put on the shocks with changes to valving completed, spring rates tested and settings fine tuned.
Since we still have a couple of months of good weather before winter really hits, we should not have much trouble getting the testing completed, the changes made and the production started.
It has been a long time waiting and I believe the results will be worth the wait.
Randy - RPM
Randy that shock looks to fit, the years of the best looking FJs. :biggrin: Your not bias are you, just funny how it happens to fit BOTH your bikes. :shok: :rofl:
If you need NE roads tested let me know, I have one it will fit too. :shok:
Bob W
Quote from: Alf on September 19, 2012, 04:13:02 PM
Its like an addiction: we´re still considering and saving to buy the fork valves and there is another gadget on the way...
MMMMmmmmmmm Randy, do you know that there is an economic crisis and that you could be the guilty of lots of divorces? :sarcastic:
I just heard a classic understatement by a country bloke west of here. "SHED HAPPENS"
bring it oooonnnnnnnnn, Randy :yahoo:
Randy,
Sorry if I struck a nerve. It was not my intent to question the technology. Since I haven't had the opportunity to install my fork valves yet, my old school brain is still trying to comprehend the one-size-fits-all capability that the inertia valve offers.
Ride height would be nice to have on the early model unit.
DavidR.
dam, , starting a new list now , , fork valves , fork brace , more pods, annnnnd a rear shock so Im not using a Honda part :lol:
I WANT ONE!!!!!! Please hurry up and get it tested, I need badly mine is bagged and isn't much better than a pogo stick. Big R
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
Randy,
Sorry if I struck a nerve. It was not my intent to question the technology. Since I haven't had the opportunity to install my fork valves yet, my old school brain is still trying to comprehend the one-size-fits-all capability that the inertia valve offers.
Ride height would be nice to have on the early model unit.
DavidR.
No nerves hit here and I apologize if I came off crossed in my reply. It is just the same questions when the fork valves came out, but since it is a different product, maybe they need to be covered again. So, here is the descriptions I gave regarding the way the valving with the IAT circuit works;
RPM suspension valving explained (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6114.msg53971#msg53971) If the shock needed the reservoir, It would be standard issue on all models of the shock, not a accessory to add on.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
Ride height would be nice to have on the early model unit.
DavidR.
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 19, 2012, 03:11:48 PM
Since the 84 to 87 years don't have dog bones, the shock length is used to raise and lower the rear wheel. Will the RPM shock have the function to raise and or lower the rear wheel?
Okay, here is what we came up with the design of this shock as compared to the O.E. design compared to the other shocks on the market. I was able to send the manufacture an O.E. shock as well as a Penske so they could make the best product possible.
One thing the Penske does have that seems to be useful for the FJ owner is a longer shaft length. The reason it is long is because it is a universal shock that has adapted to fit to the FJ. The benefit of the longer shock has been the raising of the rear suspension. One thing that we found on the early version was the significant change of the swing arm cantilever the shock uses to control the ride height. This change in arm angle repositions the shock location to the point where the spring was interfering with the swing arm.
This problem was really amplified as the replacement aftermarket springs are a larger diameter wire resulting in a coil spring that is about 1/4" larger in outside diameter.
The other issue of the longer shaft of the Penske results is the shock body is smaller resulting in less compression travel. The smaller shock body of the Penske requires the remote reservoir to function at its maximum efficiency. Sure uit works better than the O.E. shock without one, but for the optimum performance you have to have a reservoir.
Now since the shaft is longer on the Penske, and it changes the cantilever geometry, it requires a much heavier spring to keep the ride height up at the raised position. So, now you have to have a compression adjustment to reduce the harshness of the stiffer spring required to keep the ride height.
So, as you can see when one aspect changes at least one other thing is affected by the change and that must be addressed exposing other issues.
The RPM shock is designed pretty close to the O.E. stroke length which does not have any interference issues on the early models. I have had a couple different versions of the RPM shock body in my hands to check for clearance issues regarding the overall stroke of the shock travel. This also allowed us to have a large enough body to contain all of the valving as well as enough oil to operate for many, many years of service.
Now, the dog bones are easily modified on the late model bikes, but the early models are going to require a specific manufactured piece. I have one sitting here, and if there seems to be a large enough request for raising the rear of the 84-88 models I will start looking into the options for that request.
The rider sag is going to be very crucial on the RPM shock and the coil over adjustment is going to be means of getting it correct. The shock, just like the fork valves use lighter springs that the old school shocks use to allow the IAT (inertia) valve to work over the high speed shock travel and absorb all of the sharp bumps, offering a much more comfortable ride than the Penske could ever offer.
Quote from: weymouth399 on September 19, 2012, 04:39:11 PM
Randy that shock looks to fit, the years of the best looking FJs. :biggrin: Your not bias are you, just funny how it happens to fit BOTH your bikes. :shok: :rofl:
If you need NE roads tested let me know, I have one it will fit too. :shok:
Bob W
I have to start the testing somewhere...
Since I don't have a late model sitting in my shop, I figured it was better to start putting miles on it. I am ready to get these this bolted on a enjoy the ride. The valving is going to be real close based on the dyno numbers as compared to the Penske, but the spring rate is going to be the biggest thing we have to get figured out.
If anyone has any further questions let me know, I am glad to answer them. I understand we have progressed into new technology and the old way of thinking is hard to get past. Heck, there has been more than one guy that bought the RPM fork valves and installed heavier than recommended springs or
way to much preload and they have not been happy with the fork valve performance. But after they get things set up the proper way as I have recommended they cannot believe the performance improvement.
I will end this with the question I ask myself when I start a project like this,
"Does the value of the item equal the performance?" I don't sell too many "shiny" items that do not offer any benefit other that just looks. Heck, David know this as he was the one who started the
Carb S/S screw & o-ring kit. (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit) I added a few more items to be a full kit including the intake o-rings, but the majority of the kit is the same kit he sold. That kit not only replaces the crappy screws and old o-rings, it uses bitchen S/S for improved performance & looks.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: VMS on September 19, 2012, 02:37:13 PM
There is a coil over adjuster on it
Ride height is adjusted separately from sag. The preload ("coil over adjuster") adj. is for sag. Ride height on the Penske is adjusted using a threaded shaft between the mount (top or bottom) and the frame (or linkage).....
A ride height adjustable shock is better than using different length dogbones, because it won't affect linkage "rates". Most shock linkages incorporate a "rising rate" geometry that mimics progressive springs, but better.
Quote from: RichBaker on September 19, 2012, 09:14:46 PM
A ride height adjustable shock is better than using different length dogbones, because it won't affect linkage "rates". Most shock linkages incorporate a "rising rate" geometry that mimics progressive springs, but better.
If the shock length is changed over the O.E. setting then the linkage rate will change due to the angle changing. Anytime the linkage angles are changed, the linkage rate will change and the spring rate must be change to compensate.
If the ride height adjustment is made after the shock linkage via dog bones, the linkage rates operate in their designed perimeters.
I can tell you the Penske I borrowed to design from did not have any adjustment for length. The top shock mount is one piece aluminum and the lower mount was removable but not adjustable due to the adjustment knob for valving adjustment.
I even borrowed Ed's complete shock book at the WCR so we could get Baldy's shock set up for him and do not recall a height adjustment, only the coil over for sag.
Maybe I had the basic Penske and the adjustable length is on the high dollar ones...
Randy
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 19, 2012, 09:35:13 PM
Maybe I had the basic Penske and the adjustable length is on the high dollar ones...
Randy
this..... i dont believe the Penske sport shock has ride height or compression damping adjustment.
i am curious how resistant to fade the new RPM shock is... looks good keep us up to date on how the testing goes.
KOokaloo!
Frank
I have Penske Sport Shocks for my '85 and '93. The both have shock length (ride height) adjustment. The lower mount threads into the shock piston shaft. There is a maximum length for the adjustment (12mm if I recall). The Sport Shock does not have compression damping adjustment, only length, rebound damping, and preload.
Randy, sorry to ask the same old questions. I'll trust the technology until I get my fork valves installed.
What I do have questions with is the testing process. Will the testers have experience with more advanced suspension than the FJ. It's not too hard to improve on the stock FJ components (that's not meant as a knock on your stuff). For instance, with RT fork valves and a Penske both my FJs are INCREDIBLY FAR BETTER than stock. However, they still SUCK compared to the STOCK suspension on my FZ1.
As the Race Tech guy likes to say: "The best you've ridden is the best you know."
There's a lot of "what feels right" involved in suspension setup (after getting the basics down). I'm sure not everyone on the MotoGP grid has the exact same setup. What concerns me is there appears to be no fine tuning. What the "testers" felt was right might not be what I like. It's a trade off of comfort versus performance. I might prefer more on the sport side. It would be nice to be able to "fine tune" the final product for personal preference. However, I can underrtand that the valve might not be "adjustable."
I'm just not sure I trust someone elses opinion on what I want my suspension to feel like. Again, I'm not trying to be confrontational, just truthful. Suspension "comfort" and "control" are two vastly different beings. My brother's BWM is nice and comfy when the electronically adjustable suspension is on Comfort mode. But it's a PIG in the twisties with this setting. It does much better on the Sport mode, but even that mode can stand a little tweaking for my tastes. But that's not possible, "someone" at BMW decided what the "best" settings for the different modes are.
This brings up a question about the fork valves. When I finally get around to installing my fork valves, the rebound circuit is still active, true? If not, how do the RPM fork valves bypass the stock rebound circuit?
DavidR.
Randy looking at your new shock makes me feel like a little kid on xmass morning. I cant wait. Thank you and keep up the good work. :good2:
Kurt
Hey randy , great job , I would be willing to be a test mule for the 86 shock and compare it to my penske ride height adjustable ,rebound adjustable , compression adjustable ,remote reservoir old technology shock.
it was such a pain in the ass to set it up I think a good to go replacement would be welcome by all.
Craig and I were talking about a trip to your shop anyway,
so if you dare , I promise a fair trial.
you have seen me ride. :shok:
Craig would like one for his 90 as well.
I´m not a particular fast rider but I´m a "sensitive" one: i.e., if a tyre have lost 0,2 bar I´m able to feel it. And usually my friends ask me about to tune their suspensions
Getting a "do all everything" for a suspension is a very difficult task. In my own bikes I only get an optimum setting after 3 or 4 ownership months, riding in a lot of roads and a lot of kms. My friends feel surprised when ride my bike and have the best of 2 worlds: comfortable to ride all day long and control for a sport ride
People usually dial too hard the suspension leaving the bikes difficult and harsh to ride except on the most perfect pavement roads, something very unusual in the real world. When the suspension is too hard you have the feeling of going fast... then a softly and properly suspended bike pass you and go away
So the Randy approach to tune the shock I think is the correct way... and the most difficult. The shock could be excellent.
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 19, 2012, 09:10:17 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
Now, the dog bones are easily modified on the late model bikes, but the early models are going to require a specific manufactured piece. I have one sitting here, and if there seems to be a large enough request for raising the rear of the 84-88 models I will start looking into the options for that request.
Two quick questions:
1) will the shock come with a recomended dog bone length for the late models?, or is it a case of do for yourself, what you are happiest with (given we all have different rear end set ups)?
2)What rider weights will the set up be based on? Anecdotaly having read different threads on here, most of us (optimistically!?! - me included) put ourselves around the 100kg mark - give or take a kilo or 2 or 3 or 4 ..... :blush:
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 19, 2012, 12:24:55 PM
Awesome Randy, thanks for the update. Wish I lived close enough to be one of your test subjects. You could then state that your shock was monkey tested and Power Ranger approved.
That is quite an endorsement! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Kurt
Okay, since there has been several questions about how testing is done, so here is the way I go about it.
When I test something like the rear shock, just like the fork valves, I have to use the 80% percent rule. There the top 10% who will be able to tune and/or adjust anything and get more performance out of it. Then there are the bottom 10% that will never reach the performance potential of the product.
Then there is the 80% in the middle that will install the product and they will never give it another thought, because it does satisfy their requirements. These are the majority of the forum members and customers I have. They install a product and the performance achieved will satisfy there ability until they either step up their game and become better riders/drivers or the move on to another thing to play with.
This is a standard criteria for testing & designing any performance items for bike, car, truck, dune buggy, etc. Sure we all want to design a product that will make 100% of the customers 100% satisfied, but just like it is listed here, everyone is an individual. What works for that guy might not work for the next. I get that, but there has to be a majority rules, thus the 80% rule comes into play.
So, I have to build for the 80%. Sure a some of you might get my shock and tell me I need a little more of this or less of that, but then again you might bolt it on and it is within the range satisfied.
When I sent the Penske to the manufacture for rating, I sent them a shock with a reservoir that had all of the adjustments as well as the adjustable detent on the shaft and they ran dyno tests on the shock throughout the various adjustments of shock that could be completed. The reason I was able to get this shock was because it had just been sent in for rebuilding and I was able to get it before it went back on that bike. They then dyno'ed several O.E. shocks I sent them for the other end or the performance spectrum. All of these dyno tests are completed without the spring installed, but the spring rates were noted.
My shock is within a range of the Penske, and with all of their adjustments it has a larger adjustment range, but that is because it really is a universal shock that has been adapted to fit as many bikes as possible; not a specific product for the FJ like I have designed. Since we had the basic curb weight of the FJ, we set the standard rider weight at 190-210lbs and built the shock to perform similar to the Penske, with one big exception.
On my shock the IAT circuit allows the compression valving to be much more aggressive and offer much greater stability & control without the need of a stiff spring during low speed suspension movement (performance riding in the twisties). The soft spring and IAT allow the shock to be able to absorb the high speed suspension movement (sharp bumps & potholes) providing a comfortable ride.
The Penske, Ohlin and any other shock must compromise their performance for ride comfort or they will never sell a shock. Sure they want to adjust the shim stack for optimum performance, but if their valving is that stiff, the bike is not comfortable or even safe for that matter on the roadway as it will be too stiff and skip across the surface. So to compromise for the lighter compression valving they have to incorporate a heavy spring to control the movement.
I can tell you the Penske, Ohlin or any other aftermarket shock you have on your FJ would be laughed at if you were to take it out to the track and let a true racer ride the bike on the track only. They would say the spring is too stiff, then when the spring is lightened, the valving would be too soft. Since the race track is smooth and they do not have to deal with road hazards & potholes (high speed), they can tune the shim stack in the shock for performance only because they only have the suspension compression of the cornering (low speed). They would be adjusting the shim stack to a range much closer the the shim stack we have in my shock.
The company I have manufacturing the front & rear suspension products for me have the patented IAT circuit with allows the bypass to happen for road comfort (high speed), but then IAT does not come into play when they are in the performance mode of the twisties (low speed). But if you really go back and watch some of the videos Mike Ramos has posted documenting the front fork movement, if during the slow speed movement, you encounter a pothole the forks are able to react and absorb the hole and continue to keep the tire patch in contact with the road.
The best thing about all of this technology is you hardly ever feel a thing in the handlebars, but when you start really looking at the videos you can see how much the forks are cycling to keep the contact patch of the tire on the asphalt, but since the spring rates are soft that movement is not transferred into the handlebars or bike.
Look I understand, that everyone has held the Penske as the highest standard for the FJ shock, just like the Race-Tech forks valves as well. But to be honest, those are two major companies that build products they can generate high volumes of product sales because they are a universal item that can be adapted to many other bikes regardless of manufacture, size or weight. Just change the mounting eye, or this spring and put it in your FJ and it is the best thing since sliced bread and your FJ can't get any better. Just like David said, it doesn't take much to make the FJ handle better and to date that is what you have had to choose from; universal products that are a vast improvement over the stock suspension.
But now I have contracted with a company, that has patented technology with the latest shock valving design, manufacturing suspension product specifically for your FJ. This shock will not fit any other make or size of bike. Each of these products was designed and now will be tested by many different persons to hone the performance into the 80% range before I will have it available for sale. For as much as I would like to say I can do all of the testing myself, that is not good business. I would be limiting the product to what I feel and experience, thus the reason there will be many testers on this rear shock just as there was on the front fork valves.
We will not be comparing the suspension characteristics to any other model or make of bike, that is comparing apples & oranges. The testing is to make changes to the product(s) to improve the FJ not compare it to an FZ1, CBR or BMW. Sure during the testing someone might say, that the turn in is like the XXX bike they ride, or the compression feels like a YYY bike they rode at a riding school, but at the end of the day my goal is to offer the best product available for the FJ and nothing else.
So since the race tech website say "the best you have ridden is the best you know", it is time to open the mind to understand there is now technology that is better than you currently know and,
"RPM is going to expand your knowledge" by offering you the next level of performance and comfort combined with a product specifically designed, manufactured, tested and soon to be available for your FJ only.
If there is any other question that I can answer please post it up here and I will answer it or get the information to answer it. I am here you you guys.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 19, 2012, 10:15:20 PM
This brings up a question about the fork valves. When I finally get around to installing my fork valves, the rebound circuit is still active, true? If not, how do the RPM fork valves bypass the stock rebound circuit?
DavidR.
David, the fork valve has the rebound valving built into it, now quit procrastinating and get those valves installed you have had them for months...
Okay,
I'm convinced!
I'm going to stop asking stupid questions and get my butt in gear and install the fork valves this weekend
DavidR.
Two quick questions:
1) will the shock come with a recomended dog bone length for the late models?, or is it a case of 'do for yourself, what you are happiest with' (given we all have different rear end set ups)?
2)What rider weights will the set up be based on? Anecdotaly having read different threads on here, most of us (optimistically!?! - me included) put ourselves around the 100kg mark - give or take a kilo or 2 or 3 or 4 ..... :blush:
Dog bones are kind of a personal thing. Whatever it takes to touch the rear tire ont eh ground when the bike is on the centerstand is usually the desire.
This is where an adjustable ride height shock comes in handy. It's not an adjustment you'd need to make frequently, but different beands of tires have slightly differing radii.
Hey Pat,
Can you capture the information that Randy has generously supplied in this post and either "sticky" it or comglomerate it in the Files section somewhere?
DavidR.
Quote from: nurse on September 21, 2012, 03:51:04 AM
2)What rider weights will the set up be based on? Anecdotaly having read different threads on here, most of us (optimistically!?! - me included) put ourselves around the 100kg mark - give or take a kilo or 2 or 3 or 4 ..... :blush:
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 20, 2012, 12:06:35 PM
Since we had the basic curb weight of the FJ, we set the standard rider weight at 190-210lbs and built the shock to perform similar to the Penske, with one big exception.
Randy helps those, who help themselves...
Dan
Very well said Randy. I will order one when it becomes available.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 21, 2012, 09:40:39 AM
Hey Pat,
Can you capture the information that Randy has generously supplied in this post and either "sticky" it or comglomerate it in the Files section somewhere?
DavidR.
Will do. I'll also capture Randy's info he posted earlier on the fork valves and put it in the Suspension Files.
Randy thanks for the updates and education. Just waiting for you to tell us it's ready to order. Please keep us posted. THANK YOU again Randy.
Kurt
Ball park pricing?
Andrew
Randy different subject, case guards? Renntec? any news? Thank you Randy.
Kurt
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on September 23, 2012, 12:13:30 AM
Randy different subject, case guards? Renntec? any news? Thank you Randy.
Kurt
Yes & no...
The other guy is out of business, they were supposed to send dealer documentation, but they have not replied to any of my other emails.
I am working on it.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 23, 2012, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on September 23, 2012, 12:13:30 AM
Randy different subject, case guards? Renntec? any news? Thank you Randy.
Kurt
Yes & no...
The other guy is out of business, they were supposed to send dealer documentation, but they have not replied to any of my other emails.
I am working on it.
Randy - RPM
You are awesome!!!! Renntec is unbelievable. Thanks again for looking into this with everything else on you plate.
Kurt
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on September 23, 2012, 08:48:36 AM
You are awesome!!!! Renntec is unbelievable.
[/quote]
Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about the 2 sets of Renntec bars I bought for $95 each a bunch of years ago.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 23, 2012, 09:06:17 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on September 23, 2012, 08:48:36 AM
You are awesome!!!! Renntec is unbelievable.
Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about the 2 sets of Renntec bars I bought for $95 each a bunch of years ago.
DavidR.
[/quote]Do you want to part with one of those?
Kurt
Want want want! Gimmie! Randy comes out with new stuff faster then I can save for it. I just bought the spin on oil filter converter and the.... (in reverent whisper) oil cooler! (thank you Randy for this oil cooler, you're my hero.) I already have the fork brace, uni pods, clutch mods and a few little things. Randy is the kind of motorcycle friend I wish I was.
Once the cold weather sets in, about the middle of November. I am planning on doing the GSXR wheel mod. Hopefully the new shock will be completely tested and available by then, so I can stand in line with everyone else drooling in anticipation.
Fred
Testing on the rear shock is going well. I am currently testing different sag heights and air pressure to see the effects on the rear suspension. I can tell you the rear of the bike is much more stable. Even though we are using a light spring, compared to the other aftermarket shocks, the valving of the shock allows the rear suspension to work well without much suspension travel, but the high speed travel (bumps) is great as the IAT valve allows the shock to fully adsorb the bumps. The rear of the bike sits higher all the time because the valving is controlling the suspension movement, not just the spring. I guess I was really not aware of how often my stock shock would bottom out and that has not happened with the new shock yet.
I am also playing with the fork valves as well. The improved rear suspension has caused the front to be too stiff and I am working with the preload there as well. I guess the front suspension was carrying more of the rear suspension than originally thought and now that the rear is carrying its own weight, the front is now a little too stiff.
The install of the late model shock should be happening in a couple more weeks so that phase can begin.
Testing continues and the initial set-up is real close to right. Being able to dyno the other shocks as well as using the specs of the bike allowed the initial set-up to be in the ball park and minor changes are the testing phase at this point. Spring changes will come after we get the data logged based on the minor changes. The data will indicate whether a lighter or softer spring might benefit the bike. We need to get some more miles logged documenting the changes, then the shocks will move on to other riders for their input before the final stamp of approval can be applied and ready for sale.
Thanks for your support, Randy - RPM
Is the new rear spring Going to affect the spring weight requirements of the front end or are the adjustments needed that you mention, going to be managed more superficially (ie pre-load adjustment)?
Quote from: nurse on September 30, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
Is the new rear spring Going to affect the spring weight requirements of the front end or are the adjustments needed that you mention, going to be managed more superficially (ie pre-load adjustment)?
Based on conversations with the manufacture the rates are going to stay the same, but the preload of the springs and fork oil level will be the fine tune of the front forks.
Randy - RPM
So I can safely order my .85 springs but shall await final fine tuning advice for my 93 3xw before getting on with fitment?
Quote from: nurse on September 30, 2012, 04:25:34 PM
So I can safely order my .85 springs but shall await final fine tuning advice for my 93 3xw before getting on with fitment?
Yes, as long as your weight is in the range for that spring listed on the website. I will admit in my ongoing testing of the fork valves, I bumped up to .90 springs and that is what I currently have. I have not found the sweet spot with these springs as I did with my .85 and I weigh 200 lbs.
But I want to keep testing different combinations to make sure I can give educated advice when asked. I am going to ride the Renegade Rally next week with the .90 springs and then will be dropping back to .85.
Randy - RPM
Well, testing continues...
I put almost 200 miles on the rear shock commuting back & forth to work, and the shock worked flawlessly. Great ride, much more stable, rear of the bike maintains ride height and the bumps are soaked right up by the IAT circuit without a hint of bottoming out. As I stated earlier, I never fully understood how much the stock shock was bottoming out and now that the swing arm travel is within a controlled range, the bike is much more enjoyable and sporty.
I then took it to Napa last weekend for the Nor-Cal Renegade rally and we rode a wide variety of roads, from bumpy, tight & twisty, moderate to high speed sweepers and then we got to Skaggs road. The one trip west was the whole rally wrapped up in one stretch of road with the exclusion of the bumpy surface. The trip back to the east was hampered but still enjoyable... :bomb:
I guess I never really noticed, but after the WCR & Colorado rallies I have warped the front & rear brake rotors and the more I used them, the hotter they got, the worse the pulsation became. So, the brakes were my limiting factor, but that tells me the RPM fork valves and rear shock have allowed far superior handling to the point I have now exceeded the performance capabilities of the stock 86 calipers & rotors with EBC HH pads.
While Andy and Craig stretched it out on me on Skaggs Rd, I was able to find a good rhythm with only moderate braking required and I can tell you the RPM rear shock has once again transformed my bike. The bike is much more stable on the acceleration and the control swing arm travel provides much more confidence.
I did find the rebound circuit of the shock a little too light as if I really climbed all over the brakes it would kick the tail up right away and make the back of the bike twitchy under heavy braking.
The shock is already back in the manufactures hands for valving adjustments and I should be back to testing next week.
Based on the initial testing the shock has already exceeded my expectations and with the changes being made, the improvement will be even greater. Once I get the shock to my satisfaction it will start being tested by other riders and the late model shock will also include the valving changes for testing as well.
Randy - RPM
:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
Not a real post but it is how I feel right now. I rarely saw your tail light in Napa so if it works for you on an almost bone stock 86' running with the fast dogs then it will do my FJ Kookaloo good......
This is great news, Randy.
So when do you expect to place the shock on the market? Any idea as to a price point?
If this does not happen soon, I will be forced to buy a Penske. The ride on my bike is now at God Awful and I worry any time I start to push it. It wallows all over and just kinda bounces over any rough roads. I really have to be careful on setting the bike up going into any corners, and any fast directional changes makes the bike very unsettled.
I really am ready to pull the trigger on this. Let me know.
Thanks a bunch for the update,
CraigO
Quote from: craigo on October 13, 2012, 05:38:14 PM
This is great news, Randy.
So when do you expect to place the shock on the market? Any idea as to a price point?
I really am ready to pull the trigger on this. Let me know.
Thanks a bunch for the update,
CraigO
I am testing as fast as I can...
Once I get the shock re-valved it will be installed and the next phase of testing will begin. I should be receiving the late model shock at the same time as the reconfigured early shock and I will be getting that installed for testing. From there, I have to determine what other or additional changes need to be made.
At that point other test model shocks will be sent out for testing with those who ride two up and carry a lot of weight. I have a track guy that is planning on taking my bike out for some track laps as well.
I really hope to have all of the testing complete by the end of November and the shock to be available at the first of the year, at the latest.
I do have a price point in mind, but I am holding off until all of the testing is complete in the event we have to make changes to the shock that will raise the price. I have also started the manufacturing of the shock protector boot that will come with the shock to protect it from the elements as well.
Unfortunately, there are ton of people who are and have been ready to purchase this shock, and just like the front fork valves, the process has taken much longer than I anticipated. But now that the testing is underway, I want to make sure the shock is the best product available for your FJ. With that said if we need to extend the testing time to ensure that, that is what is going to happen. I need to make sure I get plenty of feedback on the shock before it is on the shelf, that way everyone that buys one is satisfied when they get it.
Randy - RPM
Put me down for one when they are ready. :good2:
Waiting to replace the original equipment. Price point only dictates the when! :good:
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on October 25, 2012, 01:34:20 PM
Waiting to replace the original equipment. Price point only dictates the when! :good:
+1 :good2:
This is all sounding good to me. If I can't get my present shock woes sorted, I'll be very interested in one of the RPM shocks that'll be set up for two-up riding. For an '86
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on October 25, 2012, 01:34:20 PM
Waiting to replace the original equipment. Price point only dictates the when! :good:
Erich?
How is the mistress these days?
I'm down to the valve seals. A few more days of cleaning and should be able to start on reassembly of the lump. But, let's not thread-jack this very important thread on rear shockers! We need another update, we're in November and I am thinking of starting my xmas wish list!! BUMP! :i_am_so_happy:
Randy Any update on progress of testing new rear shock? Any ideas on price point? I'm thinking in relation to the later models specifically!
Any news or updates?
Yes,
I believe the valving package is finalized. They sent me today, hopefully for the last time, the early model shock with the correct upper mounting eye. If the mounting is correct, it will be heading out on Monday for a final riders evaluation for a couple of weeks before production is implemented.
The late model shock lower mounting clevis is being addressed at this time as well, but that correction is much easier than the other shock.
The spring rates are being set based on weight as well and I hope every thing can come together by March 1st.
The shock socks and adjusting wrenches are on the shelf waiting for the shock to be done. After the final changes to the clevis are completed, I will be able to get the price nailed down.
Randy - RPM
This is great news Randy.
One more item ticked of on the "to do list" next winter! :good2:
Cheers
Ken
Sounds like I need to get my 86' and assorted parts ready to convert to dogbones. I have the important part, the rest is bolts, washers and picking the length of the bones I want. I will start with 1/2 off the ground on the center stand. And there is plenty of time before the WCR... :dance2:
Well, I think forward progress is finally being made on the rear shocks. It has been a difficult process but I got this yesterday.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/RicorBuild_zpsd5d69f69.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/RicorBuild_zpsd5d69f69.jpg.html)
That is the first batch, five (5) of each version of the shock on the bench being built.
Randy - RPM
Looking sweeeeet Randy! I swear a little bit of wee came out when I saw the eibachs photo bombing the top of the picture!!
Quote from: nurse on May 16, 2013, 01:44:23 PM
Looking sweeeeet Randy! I swear a little bit of wee came out when I saw the eibachs photo bombing the top of the picture!!
+1 :good2:
Good news Randy!!! Great to see all your work coming to fruition.
Kurt
Any idea when these will become available and what pricing or can we assume price will be similar the $550 that Ricor is selling their shocks for since it appears to be a Ricor shock along with the fork valves being Ricors Intiminators?
http://store.ricorshocks.com/default.asp/]<a href="[url]http://store.ricorshocks.com/default.asp/ (http://<a%20href="[url)">Ricor</a>[/url]
Quote from: p51bombay on May 18, 2013, 11:26:30 AM
Any idea when these will become available and what pricing or can we assume price will be similar the $550 that Ricor is selling their shocks for since it appears to be a Ricor shock along with the fork valves being Ricors Intiminators?
Well, as I posted last on Thursday they are on the bench being manufactured and I hope to see them shortly, it is only a few posts back in the thread.
You are correct, they are being made by Ricor but that is where everything regarding Ricor stops. They are manufacturing the shock and fork valves for RPM as am RPM product.
I do not assume anything and I will not have a price until I get the first batch and I know the full actual cost of the shock. While you have listed the shock they currently have on sale for $550.00 with a list price of $889.99, but it cannot be compared to the FJ shock.
The FJ products that they manufacture for me/RPM are for bikes that have been out of product since 1995 and longer. The products they make for me are also specifically designed and manufactured for the FJ1100/1200 and no other bike. I contacted them about the suspension components for the FJ and they agreed to design a fork valve and rear shock for the FJ. While the fork valves might be similar in design the internal valving of the valve is exclusively for the FJ. When I contacted them we started with an off the shelf valve for the V-Max 41mm forks, but they would not work. That was the start of the testing of the valving required for the FJ only. It would have been great and cheaper to buy right off the shelf, but they do not have a stock item that will work on the FJ, so I pay for a specific FJ product to offer to you.
Now, the rear shock has been in the design & testing process for over two years. We are finally at a point where I am happy with the product for the FJ. I started with sending them stock shocks as well as a Penske for design. We started testing with a product they valved to be acceptable for the FJ in a shock they were already producing. That shock lasted less than a weekend as the seal started leaking after less that two days of riding. After they received the shock back, they determine the shock shaft size was too small and had bent. So, to the drawing board to make a more substantial product for the FJ and now the product has been put through its paces and is in the manufacturing process.
Now, Ricor agreed to manufacture these items for me/RPM at my expense in the design and development because they know it is an old bike and the market is limited. They do not want to try and market for the FJ and send all customers inquiring with them to me as they are RPM exclusive products.
The FJ products are a limited number production run compared to other items they make. There are tens of thousands of Suzuki SV650 on the road and they are sill being made today so that is a current bike that they can produce product for and continue to produce for many years to come and they will sell tens of thousands of them. The FJ is a limited market and I might be lucky to sell 1000 over the next 10-15 years. I can tell you if I get lucky and sell that many in a year the price will definitely be able to be lowered because of the higher production numbers, but if I only sell 20 a year obviously the production costs are higher and the price is reflected on the production cost.
So, when someone else steps up, spends their money and time to have another manufacture design and market an FJ specific suspension product that is comparable in operation, quality and equal to the RPM complete package, the price can never be compared.
I am not going to bring lower quality or universal products made to fit the FJ to the FJ owner, I will bring FJ specific designed and tested product or it will not have my name on it.
Even current Penske owners are in line to replace the vaulted shock as my product works better since the Penske is a universal product that is adapted to the FJ, not a specific product made for it.
Comparing any other shock or fork valve to the products I have brought to the market is like comparing coal to diamonds.
Randy - RPM
Fair enough, been reading about them in a number of threads and when I saw a photo they looked entirely the same (externally) I had been familiar with the product since installing a set of their 49mm versions in my Harley and can attest to the fact that they do work quite well. I know there was been some discussion between HD forum members and Brian where he had made up some soft stack versions for those who felt they were a bit firmer than they would like - and they are firm but I never found them excessively so. Do you know if they will offer you the same options of modifying the shim stack up or down as requested - post purchase? Can't say much one way or another about the shocks, I know many of the HD members bought the twin shock versions and liked them a lot, i guess if they work as well as the IAT valves then it should be pretty good. Back in 89 I got a new FJ from the dealer and first thing was fitting an Ohlins, it needed a slightly softer spring from what it came with but after that it delivered both plush yet controlled ride, interstate or curves, low or high speed, city or back roads - that's what I'm after. Going to look at a 90 FJ Monday.
p51 Bombay,
If you review Randy's post explaining how the Fork Valves & rear shock were developed SPECIFIALLY for the FJ then any "logic" that you are using to justify your statements comparing a H-D to the FJ's is sheer, well just say it is comparing apples to oranges.
I suggest you find a previous video posting from last years Rally in Tellico Plains; there on the "fabled" Tail of the Dragon your "super" H-D aka Buell is (oh hell) passed on the right... several times (a day or so later) but not on film he was bested again. And some where on this Forum is Jarhead with his piss pot helmet who states that his H-D boasts 135 hp...! Well, there is a reason why the old FJ's continue to perform well (with their measly 100 hp), and it is certainly not from living in the past. It is because of people such as the creator of this Forum, the gentleman referred to as Preacher & others who contribute to its continuing success AND to the gentleman from R.P.M. who has put forth a considerable amount of time, energy & financial resources into products which we all profit from...!
Prior to the rear shock entering into production, I was offered the opportunity to purchase a pre-production version of the rear shock. All that was asked of me by Randy was that I e-mail him my impressions of the shock's performance. And so I did, several of which have been shared with the members of this Forum.
I have not corresponded with Randy re: the shock since it was finalized & into production. However, yesterday I was at the R.P.M. shop to have the motorcycle serviced prior to the West Coast Rally.
After I left the RPM shop I had the opportunity to encounter and answer a challenge under the most unusual conditions. I felt that it merited comment that I related to Randy because the performance of the suspension units developed and refined by the gentleman from RPM was taken to a new level; certainly not encountered previously. And it was the first time where the weather was dry and I had new upgraded tires to exploit the suspension to its' full potential. Well at least it was all I could do at the time...
Anyway, below is an e-mail I sent to R.P.M. last night sometime after my arrival and immediately after I realized I had arrived in without incident and in one piece, if not yet sound of mind...!
Good evening Randy,
Well, I cannot really explain what transpired so I will just go in chronological order.
I left your place [ ]. So I motored on my way up 99 and over 120 to the 580 going over the Altamont Pass. The wind was horrible, very strong yet more steady than gusty and fortunately at an oblique from the front, not directly from the side. If not the worst I have experienced there, then close to it.
Bear in mind that at speed I usually go by "feel" but I have had to re-acclimate myself, and it has proved rather difficult & problematic because of the uniqueness of your suspension. However, this afternoon's ride was all by "feel", something which I am quite pleased to note because it allows me to concentrate more on the riding by understanding & acknowledging my limitations without having to check the rpm & mph. It is a plateau for which I have strived but which has been difficult to achieve.
I also recall initial trepidation about a lack of experience with the new type of tire, [Michelin Power 3 2CT] but it soon evolved into respect as the tires did very well; actually allowing full use of the suspension components.
As usual I was in the low 70's in the #3 lane when a small Ford motored by in the #1 lane a bit faster, quite a distance before the Pass and again when at just the beginning of the incline. It did not really mean much.
However, a Pontiac WS6 with a vanity plate (FAST_ _ _ _) came along side braking hard & then speeding up. I recall thinking "shall I take a chance?" and down shifted to 4th but under hard acceleration I could not out pull him; he really had some power! Thus down to 3rd and nearly to redline (which takes the motorcycle into the 90's) and hard into 4th also nearly to redline which I believe is well into triple digits & then into 5th. However, because of the wind & incline and banking through the turns, I am forced to slam back down to 4th until I crest the grade. The road surface is in terrible shape, but the suspension is absolutely unbelievable...!
I am of the belief that the car was unable to keep up because the road was just too rough. He did have a lot of power, at least initially and it was I, not he who did not have an open road; the lanes which I traversed had cars & trucks well spaced which I rode around, not signaling lane changes as my speed was perhaps twice theirs. I did keep track of the Pontiac when I was able. I did not slow down to highway speed until just after the crest of the pass and it took until the flats on the Pleasanton side before he pulled along side and with a wide grin he waved & I returned his wave as well. This is when I noticed the rear spoiler & vanity plate.
I cannot emphasize the performance of your suspension and anyone who says there is anything better for street use is foolish. Penske shock or USD forks just cannot compete nor compensate for all the differences in road conditions; it is impossible to set either to optimum settings outside of a track setting.
I will even state that your suspension is "active" which is attained without electronics. I have ridden the gamut of types of road surfaces [with your suspension over these 9,000 plus miles] and road conditions and every reaction of the suspension has been instantaneous. I cannot fathom how a rider is supposed to toggle from "sport" to "highway" to ''[take your choice of vernacular]'' when street riding changes literally from moment to moment.
In closing, I am quite certain that the episode was as I describe because after he waved I actually allowed myself to say out loud to myself "Whew" although it was said quietly.
Take care,
Mike
Quote from: Mike Ramos on May 18, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
p51 Bombay,
If you review Randy's post explaining how the Fork Valves & rear shock were developed SPECIFIALLY for the FJ then any "logic" that you are using to justify your statements comparing a H-D to the FJ's is sheer, well just say it is comparing apples to oranges.
I did read it, my point was not to compare a HD to an FJ because you really can't- in fact I just sold this one yesterday and will be replacing it (so to speak) as my main street bike with another FJ1200, most likely a 90 model that I am looking at Monday. Why?.........because despite the fact that I spent nearly three years making it what I thought it should look and perform like, over this last winter it occurred to me that I had done about all I could in making it into a cafe styled bike, if an admittedly heavy one. While the look is right where I wanted it, the fact remains that in spite of suspension changes to improve things, it has very limited ground clearance on even the most mundane corner and I could never get my feet into a rearset position due to the placement of the rather large primary. What WAS my point then?...........only that before I even knew the RPM valve was essentially a reworked Ricor unit, I had prior experience with the concept and can verify that they do actually work. FYI - I don't get into the one bike is better than the other bike, aka: Harley's suck, or are better than everything else depending on which side of the barn you stand on - a HD is a well built machine well suited to its purpose as is an FJ and many other bikes. I sold mine because it didn't suit the kind of riding I like to do, simple as that.
(http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/dyna-glide-models/266103d1344656991-new-super-fat-photos-new02.jpg)
p51 Bombay
forgive us if we are a little loyal to Randy, you obviously have no clue to how much he has contributed to helping us all enjoy our FJs more than we ever envisioned....his total FJ knowledge that he shares, his superior developed FJ parts and a sincere desire to provide help is very valuable to all us, including you.. which he immediately did this Sat afternoon when I emailed him a question and got an immediate answer...good luck on getting another manf/distributor to do that
Best regards,
Louie
hey Mikey , he likes it. :good2:
REALLY I WANTED TO BUY ONE BUT YA KNOW ....they are not free but, the tutorial you posted on this site and all the little goodies you sell at rpm seem almost free, i built my own carbs using your info and when i mounted em up (fought like a pro wrestler on crack till i pulled out the heat gun the it happened in less than ten seconds they just popped right on andi had to sneak to the river to go fishin cause i told my girl it would take all night!) the carbs already had a dynojet kit in em and with your fastner kit and oring kit and just one needle and seat and YOUR DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS my bike runs sweet, even starts easy cold. the best part is i understand whats goin on~thank you very much for your help, if you ever know anyone needing spare carb bodies the fj1100nc carbs a couple were unusable but i found some fj1100n and tossed the canisters in a drawer with the two spare carb bodies rails and assorted hardware find some body needy they can have what they need for shipping, stuffs not new but then it really dosnt need to be! rebuilt my clutch master and slave so once i paint im riding this old girl down the road mainly because of you and fjowners.com~ you guys are great...
I can only guess Randy's frustration in getting the RPM shock out to those who wait with baited breath....my question is: Was there any talk at the WCR regarding progress in getting it out to the public?
Cheers,
Andrew
Quote from: Persistant on June 06, 2013, 05:41:26 PM
....my question is: Was there any talk at the WCR regarding progress in getting it out to the public?
Andrew
Well, a lot of people got to hold one at the WCR, someone even had a chance to ride my bike with one installed but unfortunately it sat all weekend.
I have spoken to the manufacture and as of yesterday they are re-manufacturing the bottom end of the shock as they forgot about my email telling them of the interference issue I was having. After I forwarded the original email it was soon recalled...
The shocks were here, at RPM and much to my frustration they all arrived wrong and had to be sent back
They got them back on Tuesday and hoped to be able to change out all of the lower ends and get them ready to send back by Friday. I will be calling in the morning again to see if they were successful.
I also told them yesterday after the feedback at the WCR that they should start on the second batch as well, because I think the first one will sell pretty quickly.
Believe me this is on the front burner and I am working on it daily, pushing firmly to get these things done. I have already spent a ton of money on springs, shock covers, & tools which are sitting here everyday costing me money as they cannot be used on anything...
When and if I get any further news I will pass it along, but until I know something I really do not want to keep repeating myself with the same bad news...
Randy - RPM
And while I'm at it no new news on the exhaust either...
Randy, I was very happy to hear that the 84/87 shock that you are releasing will be upgradeable to the length adjustable shock for the second generation. This makes it easy for me to decide to make a grab at your first shock and upgrade when it becomes available. Tell me I am not dreaming.....
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 06, 2013, 07:01:39 PM
Randy, I was very happy to hear that the 84/87 shock that you are releasing will be upgradeable to the length adjustable shock for the second generation. This makes it easy for me to decide to make a grab at your first shock and upgrade when it becomes available. Tell me I am not dreaming.....
That is the plan, I am going to try and get them to build an adjustable end for both version to offer height adjustment.
The biggest issue for them is the changing to the swingarm linkage angles and how that can affect the shock and spring rates.
For instance, I notice on the BMW shock that a few have done, the relay arm is almost at full extension and that has a drastic effect on the spring rate & shock valving compare to the stock position.
It is in the drawing board/thought phase and if I am able to make it work, then it will be something to come out down the road sometime in the future, but right now we are only talking about it.
Now, Mark I have to ask...
Why do you need to have adjustable length on the shock?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on June 06, 2013, 07:30:33 PM
Now, Mark I have to ask...
Why do you need to have adjustable length on the shock?
Randy - RPM
I am asking because ride height in the rear (geometry issues) seems to affect our enjoyment in the corners... I am not that fast in the corners so I am open to opinion.
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 06, 2013, 08:40:55 PM
I am asking because ride height in the rear (geometry issues) seems to affect our enjoyment in the corners
How and in what way?
Randy - RPM
Ride height and sag is very important to proper set up. Especially for the early FJ's, no dog bones. Changing them + or - 10mm makes a huge difference. The shorter raises the back end of the bike and makes the spring feel stronger (stiffer). Shortened my bones 10mm, huge improvement in my bikes handling. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 06, 2013, 08:40:55 PM
I am open to opinion.
Raising rear = Improved turn-in. to the point that it can become unstable, so you don't want to go nuts. You can also drop the front.
Frank
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on June 06, 2013, 09:51:19 PM
Ride height and sag is very important to proper set up.
The shorter raises the back end of the bike and makes the spring feel stronger (stiffer).
Kurt
Thank Kurt, I agree that sag is very important, but not sure why the ride height needs to change. This is the debate the shock manufacture and I are currently having and I would like to understand more.
If the shock and spring are the proper set up for the bike and the correct sag is maintained when the rider is mounted, then how does changing the ride height affect the ride.
Is it just because it makes the spring feel stiffer?
If so, then the correct rate spring should be installed to compensate for the weak spring which increased the sag and lowered the ride height.
Here is where it get cloudy...
The early model bikes have the aluminum relay are & linkage that are non-adjustable. So, when I bolted my new shock on my bike for testing, I used the shock that is the same length as the stock shock to maintain swingarm linkage geometry. I installed the correct rate spring to control the sag, which in turn maintains the ride height and swing arm angles the bike was designed with.
The late model bikes can have the dog bone changed to affect the ride weight without affecting the swingarm linkage geometry. That shock is also the stock length, but a couple of riders had adjustable dog bones.
Now, are all of these changes done because of the poor rear shock/spring assy?
Now, if you have one of the other aftermarket shocks on the market that are a shim stack design they are set up pretty soft on the shim stack to maintain ride quality. Since the shim stack is so light, they have to put a heavy rate spring on it to control the swingarm movement, ride height & sag. So, they give you a weak shock and a stiff spring.
I would like to hear more as I need to be able to convey why changing the ride height does anything for the handling.
I understand things like it makes slight changes the steering head angle steeper, it shortens the wheel base slightly, but I need to understand why the raising of the rear of the bike effects the handling other than changing the relay arm angles and changing the effective spring rate.
The only concern from any of the test riders was the fact the he has a YZF wheel on his early model bike and the static height of the wheel is lower. He would have liked to raise the rear slightly and I understand that. He did have concern when installing the shock that the pegs would drag, but they did not.
That concern and only that concern will be the only reason the early model shock might end up being adjustable...Unless other reasons are made clear to me and I can present them to the manufacture as a reason for change.
The late model shock can maintain the stock swingarm geometry and the dog bones can the change the ride height so it does not need to be length adjustable.
Like I stated earlier, the BMW shock is much too long and severely alters the swing arm geometry to the point the center stand has to be removed. The acute angle of the linkages in the photo below demonstrate the maximum length of the shock and how it affects the ride height, spring rate and sag.
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/aviationfred/IMAG0214_zps0bd81601.jpg) (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/aviationfred/media/IMAG0214_zps0bd81601.jpg.html)
I am not knocking those who have it installed and are happy with the results, but as I person bringing a product to market, that alteration to the geometry is not acceptable.
The other thing that I need everyone to take into consideration, the new RPM shock will not compare with anything currently on the market. It is not a universal shock that is shimmed and sold with all kinds of adjustments to make your bike handle with a gigantic spring.
The RPM shock uses the same light spring technology the front of the bike uses to allow the patented bypass circuit to function and give you a superior ride. The final two test riders are current Penske owners and both of them are patiently waiting for the shock to be available as well, because you cannot compare one to the other.
The bike feels lighter, turns in quicker, brakes and accelerates better because the package has been designed for the FJ specifically. I think once they hit and everyone gets them dialed into their liking, the results will look just like the front fork reviews.
But with that said, I still need to be able to understand more clearly why raising the rear of the bike affects the handling and fully understand and be able to explain to the manufacture why it is needed because they are currently against it as it will effect the shock shim package and spring rate.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Flynt on June 06, 2013, 10:10:53 PM
Raising rear = Improved turn-in. to the point that it can become unstable, so you don't want to go nuts. You can also drop the front.
Frank
[/quote]
True but if you raise the back, this improves ground clearance and will allow you to lean the bike over farther in a turn. It also raises the center of gravity making the bike less stable. The FJ is so solid this would take a huge change to make it unstable. JMO
Kurt
Quote from: Flynt on June 06, 2013, 10:10:53 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 06, 2013, 08:40:55 PM
I am open to opinion.
Raising rear = Improved turn-in. to the point that it can become unstable, so you don't want to go nuts. You can also drop the front.
Frank
How much lower from stock can we lower the triple trees on the forks?
Quote from: Flynt on June 06, 2013, 10:10:53 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 06, 2013, 08:40:55 PM
I am open to opinion.
Raising rear = Improved turn-in. to the point that it can become unstable, so you don't want to go nuts. You can also drop the front.
Frank
That was very noticeable when I raised mine.
That and the RPM fork valves were the two biggest improvements that I could have done to make the FJ a lot lighter on her feet.
Leon
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on June 06, 2013, 10:40:16 PM
True but if you raise the back, this improves ground clearance and will allow you to lean the bike over farther in a turn.
It also raises the center of gravity making the bike less stable. The FJ is so solid this would take a huge change to make it unstable. JMO
Kurt
But if the shock/spring do the proper job of maintaining the ride height while in compression in the corner and not let it completely compress the spring/shock, would there be a need to raise the bike?
Randy - RPM
"Well, a lot of people got to hold one at the WCR, someone even had a chance to ride my bike with one installed but unfortunately it sat all weekend."
Hey Randy thanks for the update, I figured it would have been a topic of discussion at the WCR. Although my choice (ok, more life circumstances) that I did not attend the WCR I sure would have loved to and felt a little left out of the loop.....sniff sniff....
Cheers,
Andrew
Quote from: Persistant on June 06, 2013, 10:47:53 PM
Although my choice (ok, more life circumstances) that I did not attend the WCR I sure would have loved to and felt a little left out of the loop.....sniff sniff....
Cheers,
Andrew
Andrew and everyone else for that matter, start planning now for 2014 and saving your nickels and dimes now...I think it is going to be fun.
30 year anniversary of the birth of the FJ and hopefully a proper way to celebrate the Legendary status of the FJ.
Randy - RPM
Randy just a small change in steering heat angle will make a big change in the handling. Raising the back end will do this. As to your question about a proper shock set up and spring. The goal is to bring all the pieces together to make the bike handle as well it can. Yamaha may have not setup our bikes to handle as well as they can. The shock you are working on is an example of this. Set up from the factory, they need to fit a large spectrum of riders. So there is room for improvement. This one of the things I have been waiting to see. What will need to be done to tune the shock for my bike and riding style.
Your fork valves are a huge improvement. I was running progressive springs and synthetic fork oil which made the front much better than stock. When I installed your fork valves and new springs. I would say this was double the improvement of the first change. Very impressive and if you were stock before WOW.
Kurt
I think you'll need to read up on steering angles (rake, trail, etc) to see what you're causing to happen dynamically when you raise the back. The clearance point is a good one as well and I have never dragged a peg on the FJ (or any other bits).
I don't know exactly why raising the back and/or lowering the front works, but my intuition on physics would say that raising the rear and/or lowering the front decreases rake angle and puts more of the weight of the bike through the forks... less on the forks from the side = easier pivoting of the forks and less tendency to self center. This combination makes for light, quick steering.
If you get to the point where the self centering is too weak to hold the bike up, it will tip into corners and you'll need to counter steer to keep it upright... that means you've gone too far. Up to that point I think you're in a "season to taste" situation. Lowering my front end 1/2" made a huge difference in turn in and cornering stability.
Frank
In my experience if you take to much rake out of the bike it will make the bike head shake. Head shake is when the bars pivot from side to side uncontrollably at speed. This is why you see steering dampers on bikes.
Kurt
Quote from: racerrad8 on June 06, 2013, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: Persistant on June 06, 2013, 10:47:53 PM
Although my choice (ok, more life circumstances) that I did not attend the WCR I sure would have loved to and felt a little left out of the loop.....sniff sniff....
Cheers,
Andrew
Andrew and everyone else for that matter, start planning now for 2014 and saving your nickels and dimes now...I think it is going to be fun.
30 year anniversary of the birth of the FJ and hopefully a proper way to celebrate the Legendary status of the FJ.
Randy - RPM
+ 1..Same for the Snowy Ride - It indeed will be Epic, Legendary and Global. ...Oh, also the spot on long range forcast providers for the Aussie Bellingen Rally, already have early March 2014, as absolutely perfect riding conditions... Hoping to get attendees from NZ and Europe as well as those saving their U.S. Dollars. (Some are including Phillip Island WSB +) :drinks:
Quote from: The General on June 07, 2013, 01:05:13 AM
+ 1..Same for the Snowy Ride - It indeed will be Epic, Legendary and Global. ...Oh, also the spot on long range forcast providers for the Aussie Bellingen Rally, already have early March 2014, as absolutely perfect riding conditions... Hoping to get attendees from NZ and Europe as well as those saving their U.S. Dollars. (Some are including Phillip Island WSB +) :drinks:
The way the Aussie dollar is falling at the moment, our overseas Rally attendee's will almost have a free holiday. :drinks:
Hello everyone,
I would like to chime in with my impressions of the rear shock from R.P.M. This will be as it pertains to my 1991 FJ. As mentioned in a previous post, I had the opportunity to purchase a pre-production unit from the gentleman from RPM. I currently have over 10,000 miles on the shock over a wide variety of road conditions.
Re: the comment that "Yamaha may not have had it right - thus the shock from R.P.M." and other discussions about the proper linkage ratios... well yes & no.
After I installed the Fork Valves (and brace) I blew out the stock rear shock so I modified and installed a late model shock from a Yamaha sport bike. It is the same shock which I rode with for the Colorado Rally and it performed well (having 3 rebound & compression damping adjustments).
However it did change ride height which I compensated for by adjusting the dog bone length, thus changing the linkage ratios which at the time I had reservations doing but with no other option.
Enter the shock from R.P.M. - It must be understood that the shock operates on a different principle (that I do not claim to understand) all the while the full travel of the shock is indeed utilized. Just as is the full fork travel utilized with the Fork Valves (review the video from the Colorado Rally and you will see the fork operate throughout its' full range) but never is there bottoming - a question I was specifically asked at the time.
Re: sport riding... As far as when entering a turn under hard braking and then releasing the brakes at a desired point during the turn, these suspension components all but eliminate the chassis 'upset' or spring back that is encountered while cornering and which has been discussed previously. While my riding ability may be limited, my experience with this phenomena is very real.
Returning to linkage geometry, ride height & sag etc. - I have long had adjustable dog bones and have experimented with a variety of adjustments. I do not believe there is benefit in raising the ride height (lowering the rear wheel) - sure the bike will turn in a bit quicker but AS IT PERTAINS TO STREET USE so will putting on a tire with a different profile. And I have yet to find a road which would have been traversed quicker with the increase in rake. And as someone else noted it may decrease high speed stability.
I also believe that Yamaha came pretty close to all an all around compromise with regard to the linkage geometry and having changed it to accommodate a very competent shock, using the new shock from RPM allows the linkage to return to normal lengths and thus ratios. Having changed the ratios to accommodate the modified Yamaha shock, I would just as soon return this aspect of the suspension to stock (and I have).
Now, as far as increased ground clearance: The peg ends and the chin cowl are indeed scrapped up HOWEVER since installing the suspension components I not scraped anything with the recommended spring rates and sag settings provided by Randy. The settings may not be 'traditional' and admittedly it seems counterintuitive to get improved sport performance from softer spring settings, but the evidence is empirical. I believe it was mr. happy himself DavidR who first mentioned the excellent ride quality of the rear shock from RPM as it compared to his Penske. While I have never had a Penske shock I had one comparable to it.
As with other items I have purchased from RPM, and only after many miles under a wide variety of weather & road conditions, I can without reservation recommend the rear shock from RPM.
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on June 07, 2013, 04:39:37 AM
I do not believe there is benefit in raising the ride height (lowering the rear wheel) - sure the bike will turn in a bit quicker but AS IT PERTAINS TO STREET USE so will putting on a tire with a different profile. And I have yet to find a road which would have been traversed quicker with the increase in rake. And as someone else noted it may decrease high speed stability.
Now, as far as increased ground clearance: The peg ends and the chin cowl are indeed scrapped up HOWEVER since installing the suspension components I not scraped anything with the recommended spring rates and sag settings provided by Randy.
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
I have raised the rear, but not as much as most (about an inch off the ground) dropped the front a little and it made a noticeable difference. Then I started using a front tyre that has a rounded profile similar to a racing tyre and it was better again.
The aim is not to be quicker from A to B but doing it easier, not having to wrestle the bike into turns. I get to ride a number of new bikes and the FJ still feels surprisingly nimble when cornering hard.
There is certainly no loss of high speed stability, even with luggage. I imagine there would be if you over did it though.
I have a standard bike of the same model also, a quick ride on that confirms the improvement these changes make.
I'm not sure how you attribute no longer scraping things to the shock. In my case I am expecting the opposite by having a shock I can run softer. I have my rear set uncomfortably hard to stop wallowing and I doubt it compresses much in corners and it's a long way over to the chin fairing bolts.
Noel
Its not the rake of the front end that gives stability its the positive trail. By raising the backend of the bike you obviously reduce the effective rake but the key result is reduced trail which makes the steering both lighter and quicker.There are a multitude ways of changing trail. To decrease trail you can raise the backend or lower the forks through the triple trees both will decrease the rake and more importantly decrease the trail.Both will change the ride height. A more radical approach would be to cut the neck off and weld back with reduced rake and trail which would not effect ride height. A more common method not requiring this kind of metal surgery is to increase the offset of the triple trees. By increasing the offset between the steering stem and the fork tubes you maintain the same rake but reduce the trail.
Raising the back or lowering the front is obviously the easiest and cheapest solution. An adjutable lenght shock allows you to change the ride height and thus change the trail. It does not affect spring sag or preload nor will it affect damping.
Changing the links will also do this but an adjustable lenght shock will allow for more tuning without making up an assortment of links to play with.
Hein.
(popcorn)
Good evening,
"I'm not sure how you attribute no longer scraping things to the shock. In my case I am expecting the opposite by having a shock I can run softer. I have my rear set uncomfortably hard to stop wallowing and I doubt it compresses much in corners and it's a long way over to the chin fairing bolts." a quote from Noel
As I stated in the previous post it is counter intuitive. With the RPM suspension components softer springs are used, however the problems such as wallowing are compensated for (as I understand it) through the valves. And that is the impressive aspect, a soft ride when not under sporting conditions such as cross country riding but the very same shock settings do very well under actual sporting rides.
I am not easily swayed by individual claims as to a particular product's performance (e.g. the oil pressure & temperature gauges to verify the performance of the oil cooler from R.P.M.). There is a whole lot video & notes of various suspension settings that do indeed verify the veracity of the suspension components. Empirical experience is not easily compromised.
Recently I posted a copy of an e-mail sent to Randy following a high speed encounter with an automobile over a very rough & unforgiving surface. Previously, I have on a video [which I have shown to Randy] a high speed entry into a Bay Area tunnel where the surface undulated rapidly, the full length of travel on both the forks & shock were in play. My reservation in that instance was that the motorcycle would become airborne and throw me into the wall of the tunnel. Fortunately the wheels never left the ground.
In the first instance with the automobile I was traveling light without luggage. The second was at the beginning of a cross country with moderately loaded luggage, a full tank of fuel and about two gallons in the auxiliary fuel tank. The point is that the road conditions and loading are diametrically opposite. Not to mention the recent WCR where I arrived with full luggage but went on the daily ride sans the luggage. HOWEVER the suspension setting were exactly the same in all of these situations and the suspension components performed flawlessly.
Such has been my experience over a considerable length of time and a lot of miles. There is not a lot more to say...!
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on June 08, 2013, 02:26:20 AM
Not to mention the recent WCR where I arrived with full luggage but went on the daily ride sans the luggage. HOWEVER the suspension setting were exactly the same in all of these situations and the suspension components performed flawlessly.
This statement to me sums up exactly how a quality rear suspension system would ideally work, and sounds like it does. That being the case, it will be the perfect upgrade to most, if not all rear ends of our beloved FJs'. :good2:
Mike,
What you describe at length is simply what any good suspension should do and my expectation is the RPM shocker should be better because it is tailored to the FJ. I have said previously I will be elbowing my way to the head of the queue when they are released.
It was no slight on Randy's unit, but, you said it yourself, the full length of travel on both the forks & shock were in play. I simply commented that with the shocker compressed by either centrifugal force, brakes or bumps, the bike will be closer to the road and that effects clearance.
The more irregularities the wheel soaks up without the bike rising and falling, the more the clearance is going to change. This is a good thing for general riding. But, if you are leaned over in a corner and hit a bump and this is absorbed entirely into the suspension you are more likely to ground out.
Yes the shocker can no doubt be set to suit sportier riding as it could be for high speed, pillion or comfort but the fact is most people don't because a ride can involve all of that and most of us can't be bothered and settle on a good all round setting and leave it there.
I look forward to the improved ride I expect from the RPM unit but still maintain that in my case (on my current settings) it will be at the expense of some clearance, a compromise I am happy to make in order to get a better all round ride. If you have your bike currently set to mushy this will not be the case.
I am not easily swayed by individual claims as to a particular product's performance/ Empirical experience is not easily compromised.
[/u]
I agree, and to be fair, your findings are only relative to the previous set up on your bike and will be different to mine which will be different to someone else's and so on.
Just so I'm not misquoted, again (think gun section)
My comment would apply to any shocker that allowed good performance with softer springs and has NOTHING to do with Randy's item specifically and I think the RPM unit will be the best thing you can do for your rear end.
BTW, I regularly ride a modern 1200 with 3 mode electronic suspension adjustment. This is way more than bling and makes a huge difference being able to adjust it on the fly as conditions demand. Randy?
Noel
Good morning,
Well, reread the post I made dated May 18th (which was in an email I sent originally to Randy right after the ride ended). It closes with the following:
"I cannot emphasize the performance of your suspension and anyone who says there is anything better for street use is foolish. Penske shock or USD forks just cannot compete nor compensate for all the differences in road conditions; it is impossible to set either to optimum settings outside of a track setting.
I will even state that your suspension is "active" which is attained without electronics. I have ridden the gamut of types of road surfaces [with your suspension over these 9,000 plus miles] and road conditions and every reaction of the suspension has been instantaneous. I cannot fathom how a rider is supposed to toggle from "sport" to "highway" to ''[take your choice of vernacular]'' when street riding changes literally from moment to moment."
There would not have been time to change between settings as the road conditions were changing so quickly. Go wind your bike up to near red line in 4th with the tallest gearing available to determine what speeds were encountered, I do not know as I was busy riding. As it was not in a track setting there were a myriad of other factors to consider at the moment.
Also refer to a previous posting of a video where with the camera pointed backwards there is an exit in a right hand sweeper that is very rough. The wheel is very active and the road is initially smooth and then the rough surfaced turn is entered. Returning to smooth again. It may be the same posting where I caught up to a late model Yamaha sport bike on an open road and the road is smooth.
The changes in road conditions are instantaneous but the suspension compensates very nicely.
I have noted my findings & experience and expressed them as well as I am able. That is about all I can say.
Have a good day,
Mike Ramos.
So, before we get to far off topic, I want to reaffirm the question asked regarding raising the rear ride height.
The primary reason seems to be to reduce the rack/caster to allow quicker lighter steering.
The secondary reason should be due to later model wheel/tire combination with a shorter static height reducing the ground clearance.
Is there any other reason for a shock with height adjustment?
Randy - RPM
Being the one that kicked the hornets nest I can say that sums up why I was interested in the adjustment. It is not an adjustment I would be changing all the time, I want to find the sweet spot and leave it.
Quote from: hein on June 07, 2013, 01:09:30 PM
Raising the back or lowering the front is obviously the easiest and cheapest solution. An adjutable lenght shock allows you to change the ride height and thus change the trail. It does not affect spring sag or preload nor will it affect damping.
Changing the links will also do this but an adjustable length shock will allow for more tuning without making up an assortment of links to play with.
Hein.
Hein,
Thank you for the reply, but after doing all of the testing I have done and conversed with the manufacture, the above statement is incorrect.
The changing of the fulcrum points due to a longer shock drastically affect the dampening and slightly affect the sag & preload. The leverage change of the fulcrum points regarding the swing arm linkage by changing the shock length has a lot of considerations.
When the shock length changes the angle correction factor must be taken into consideration. Not only does it modify the actual rate the spring will produce, it changes the leverage that the shock sees. When calculating the spring rates the angle correction calculations must be used for a difference of 5* of shock angle.
That is why the adjustment of the dog bone on the late model bikes is better. It does not affect the fulcrum of the shock linkage. Yes, it does affect the leverage the shock linkage feels from the swingarm, but that change is much less critical because of the overall leverage of the swing arm as compared to the short leverage of the relay arm that the shock is connected to.
That is why the adjustable links like those made by Soupy's are a great addition for the late model FJ, the early model does not offer this adjustment with the aluminum swingarm linkage.
The shock length should reaming as close to stock as possible. The allows the suspension to operate in the range the linkage was designed to function in. By changing the shock length, the linkage range is compromised in one direction, changing the leverage & load to the shock which is directly related the spring rate & internal shock valving.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 08, 2013, 10:07:49 AM
Being the one that kicked the hornets nest I can say that sums up why I was interested in the adjustment. It is not an adjustment I would be changing all the time, I want to find the sweet spot and leave it.
I bought a Penske with the adjustable ride height option. I found it great for adjusting the ride height to match the various tire profiles. I currently run a 170-60/17 which has a smaller profile than the stock 150-80/16. I plan on a 180-55/17 for my next rear which has an even smaller profile than the 170. The adjustment made up for the reduced rear height.
CraigO
Is it a possibility to change the ride height by changing the shackles on the end of the shock? You'd not gain any travel, and the shock would remain in the same position in the stroke (minor changes from the weight moving forwards, I suppose). I'd think within reason this would be an acceptable way to do it? That would mean that you'd just have to have a removable yoke on one end, and swap to a different one as needed, probably for a minor cost of the replacement, yes?
Quote from: andyb on June 08, 2013, 12:56:27 PM
Is it a possibility to change the ride height by changing the shackles on the end of the shock? You'd not gain any travel, and the shock would remain in the same position in the stroke (minor changes from the weight moving forwards, I suppose). I'd think within reason this would be an acceptable way to do it? That would mean that you'd just have to have a removable yoke on one end, and swap to a different one as needed, probably for a minor cost of the replacement, yes?
Yes, that is where the adjustability of the shock length would occur. But, that length does change the fulcrum angles of the swingarm linkage and that is the compromise that I have to be able to justify and compensate for.
I have been asking for it because people keep telling me they "want it", but the manufacture needs to have a justifiable reason to have it like the two listed.
Rear tire/wheel height & steering head angle.
They are experience much more than I am in the design, function and tuning of their product and their concern is having adjustments of the shock that cannot be compensated for without re-valving the shock.
I want to thank everyone for their input and I will be in conversation about the changes in possible design over the future production runs. But at this point, when the shock are bolted on now, I believe most people will not need to adjust the ride height with the proper spring rate and sag. You just cannot compare the stock shock and the issue with it to the new RPM shock.
Keep them coming, it is all information I can educate myself with and work together with the manufacture to make the product better.
I strive to continue to improve all products as time goes on, it is not my intention to make it and just leave it forever. Any changes that are made will be able to added to the shock at the rebuild interval if required/requested.
Randy - RPM
Alright boys, here is the dealio .
I had the opportunity to follow Mike Ramos at the WCR on the hwy 20 rip and grip . He was able to hang with the Nor cal Renegades . Known at the Wcr as the "fast five".
I purposely followed Mike R. so I could see his bike in action with the RPM front and rear set up in action. It performed flawlessly , no unsettled wiggle or big ass bouncy
wiggyness . We were flying and even with the last second quick downshifts to 2nd gear and throttle up reducing corner surprises the suspension took it.
So, to sum it up the RPM stuff works as advertised.
I believe adjustable dog bones would be better than an adjustable length shock. The raising of the rear is necessary just to bring back to stock when you put a low profile 17" wheel on the rear. Those of you who want a better turn in ratio can raise it a little more for your liking.
Monkey Mark has a plan to use the shock linkage from a 89-90 on the earlier 84-87 fj's and says it matches so you can use the later model shock.
I have the race-tech springs and emulators on the front and the penske 3-way adjustable rear on My 86 . I have spent a bazillion hours and thousands of miles getting my fj just the way I like it.
With RPM Randy offering a one size fits all Rear shock I am thrilled . I will be doing a straight up comparison to how it works right out of the box as opposed to literally years of dicking around with the penske. Look for the Muppet Labs report when I am finished.
MarkO
Quote from: Mark Olson on June 08, 2013, 01:55:24 PM
Alright boys, here is the dealio .
I had the opportunity to follow Mike Ramos at the WCR on the hwy 20 rip and grip . He was able to hang with the Nor cal Renegades . Known at the Wcr as the "fast five".
I purposely followed Mike R. so I could see his bike in action with the RPM front and rear set up in action. It performed flawlessly , no unsettled wiggle or big ass bouncy
wiggyness . We were flying and even with the last second quick downshifts to 2nd gear and throttle up reducing corner surprises the suspension took it.
So, to sum it up the RPM stuff works as advertised.
I believe adjustable dog bones would be better than an adjustable length shock. The raising of the rear is necessary just to bring back to stock when you put a low profile 17" wheel on the rear. Those of you who want a better turn in ratio can raise it a little more for your liking.
Monkey Mark has a plan to use the shock linkage from a 89-90 on the earlier 84-87 fj's and says it matches so you can use the later model shock.
I have the race-tech springs and emulators on the front and the penske 3-way adjustable rear on My 86 . I have spent a bazillion hours and thousands of miles getting my fj just the way I like it.
With RPM Randy offering a one size fits all Rear shock I am thrilled . I will be doing a straight up comparison to how it works right out of the box as opposed to literally years of dicking around with the penske. Look for the Muppet Labs report when I am finished.
MarkO
:good2:
(popcorn)
Hi Randy.
Your comments regarding shock length changes changing geometry are correct. My use and preference for adjustable length shocks are not to make radical changes but to allow for fine tuning. In other words get close with the links and fine tune with the shock length.
Hein.
Marko, I fitted the RPM emulators a few weeks ago, before I fitted them the bike was reasonable in the front and not bad in the back (I have a Hagon shock with a hydraulic adjuster).
As I emailed to Randy I think his emulators are totally crap, because the acceptable rear end has now turned into a Mack truck while the front end feels fantastic. I have tried the lot to make the rear behave but the front end always makes the rear "feel" lacking.
All I can say is that Randy better pull his digit out and get that shock on the market (remember Randy, the 1989 model is first)
Quote from: Bozo on June 09, 2013, 05:28:45 AM
Marko, I fitted the RPM emulators a few weeks ago, before I fitted them the bike was reasonable in the front and not bad in the back (I have a Hagon shock with a hydraulic adjuster).
As I emailed to Randy I think his emulators are totally crap, because the acceptable rear end has now turned into a Mack truck while the front end feels fantastic. I have tried the lot to make the rear behave but the front end always makes the rear "feel" lacking.
All I can say is that Randy better pull his digit out and get that shock on the market (remember Randy, the 1989 model is first)
well if we could all just agree to adj the ride height with dog bones I think the shock will go into production. :dance2:
Might it be easier/cheaper to just sell a dogbone kit and a non adjustable shock than to worry about making the shock itself adjustable? I don't understand exactly how dogbones work, I have to admit, since I've never had a bike that had them and this is my first monoshock bike... So am I missing something?
Quote from: fintip on June 10, 2013, 02:39:33 PM
I don't understand exactly how dogbones work, I have to admit...
Neither did I -I kept reading that you need to LENGTHEN the dog bones to LOWER seat height... I was trying to visualize it, until I saw this pic:
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/aviationfred/IMAG0214_zps0bd81601.jpg)
This is a BMW shock, but it illustrated the mechanics of it well.
Dan
Alright guys, guess what showed up today...
:yahoo: that's right the first batch of the RPM rear shocks have landed. :yahoo:
I will be working on getting them online by tomorrow with pictures, description and pricing. All of the other components are also here and I will be assembling the spring onto the shock at the time of order.
I will post up the links as soon as I get them completed and posted on the website.
Randy - RPM
Oh yeah, I got another cool part today as well. I will post that up too.
Quote from: racerrad8 on June 21, 2013, 08:35:43 PM
Alright guys, guess what showed up today...
Really? About time. What you got? :yahoo:
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 21, 2013, 08:39:59 PM
Really? About time. What you got? :yahoo:
RPM shocks...
I thought I already covered that...
Randy - RPM
Heh Heh Heh heh :lol:
Okay, I have the shocks listed on the RPM website:
RPM Coil Over Shock - Early Version (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMShock%28E%29)
RPM Coil Over Shock - Late Version (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMShock%28L%29)
I have not been able to get the photos posted on the website. I bought a new camera and the photos are too large to upload. The should be up tomorrow. You can see the early version of the shock below.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/Rear%20Shock%20001_zps1a3fc0fb.jpg)
The shock is sold as a complete kit that will include everything you need and no additional purchases are required. I have thought long and hard about the pricing of the shock and following the two years of design & testing, the quality of the RPM shock as a specifically designed product for your FJ1100/1200.
This is not a Penske, Ohlin or Lindemann universal shock that has been adapted to fit the FJ. This is a specific shock that was designed for the FJ only. The above brand of shocks cannot ever perform to the level of this specifically designed shock with the patented IVT bypass technology. The reason they cannot compare is the patented technology is not available to them, but it is an integral part of the RPM shock.
I know there are three tiers of the Penske shock on the market and the price of the RPM shock is in line with the middle level twin clicker shock. But the RPM shock will out perform the top tier Penske shock hands down. That is what the patented dual valving allows with the RPM shock that makes it superior to anything else on the market.
Sure, the products I make are not a high profile name brand, but that is only a benefit to you the FJ owner. Do you really think anyone at Penske, Ohlin or Hagon have ever ridden an FJ, let alone an FJ to test and refine their product, I say; I doubt it.
The RPM shock will be sold as a package unit which includes, the RPM shock, an Eibach coil spring, the Torrington bearing to ease pre-load adjustment, a RPM shock sock and adjusting wrench. You will not need to purchase anything else for your RPM shock.
There is no external reservoir to find a location to mount or cutting the side panel to fit because they are not needed on a FJ specifically designed RPM shock. Why do the other manufactures use them, because they have to put valving in them to adapt the universal shock to the FJ, no other reason.
At this point and time I am going to make an introductory offer of $50.00 off of the first ten shocks sold. This offer is good for a total time of thirty days and only for the first ten purchasers. In fact if you order a shock, send me an email and I will include an RPM t-shirt as well.
The quality ride & performance has been well documented by several tester including Mike Ramos and David Raforth.
An Actual Authorized RPM Shock.... (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8800.0)
Totally Unauthorized Teaser for the RPM Shock (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8658.0)
This shock should really sell for the level of the top tier Penske as it outperforms their "top of the line" shock they offer for the FJ. I have chosen to bring you this shock at a cost that is fair for the product which makes it affordable to all.
If you have any question, please post them.
Randy - RPM
This is excellent news Randy! And the shock look awsome. :good2:
Now i need to save up some more money....
I have said this for years, and I will keep saying it;
#1 on my list of 'significant' modifications on the FJ is replacing that sacked out oem rear shock. The oem shock was weak the day it left Japan.
Yes, it is the single most expensive modification you will do, but it is the most effective.
For you early '84-'87 FJ owners who want to raise the back end (a good thing) buy the shorter RPM shock for the '89+ FJ, then get the relay arm off the '89-'91 FJ and convert your swing arm linkage over to the dog bone style. Then you can dial in the height based of the length of your dog bones.
The '89-'91 relay arm bolts right up to the hard points on your '84-'87 frame.
I did this (years ago) on my '84 and it works like a charm.
You late adopters will get the latest technology unlike many of us who have had to struggle (not really) with Penske/Hagon/Fox/Ohlin shocks.
Lucky bastards.
Thank you Randy.
Among the same line. If you buy an early model version of the shock and decided later to convert over to the later model dog bone swingarm linkage, the lower mounting of the shock can be changed out.
The shock itself is the same, so there is no reason to have to wait for the complete package to change over, it is something you can do in phases.
I am still not set against having some adjustability for ride height added to the RPM shock, but at this point the manufacture is not wanting to do it as it changes the linkage geometry and changes the valving of the shock.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 23, 2013, 12:03:09 PM
You late adopters will get the latest technology unlike many of us who have had to struggle (not really) with Penske/Hagon/Fox/Ohlin shocks.
Lucky bastards.
Thank you Randy.
Thanks Pat. I never said you guys struggled, but from the words of another wise member, just like you stated, today's technology is making the other brands obsolete...
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on March 17, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
Bottom line: Start Saving Your Money, NOW!!
The RPM shock and fork valves are a night and day difference over stock suspension components, not even in the same hemisphere. Start skipping meals, cutting down on the beer, even buy Harbor Fright tools if you have to to save money.
This shock is going to be worth whatever Randy is going to charge. It's that good.
Compared to my Penske, the RPM shock seems more compliant with excellent control and works great with the fork valves. The Penske can be a little harsh on the big bumps. This is going to be a required item for anyone upgrading their stock suspension.
Thanks to Randy for letting me play and for doing so much to make our obsolete dinosaurs so much fun.
DavidR.
If there is still one here when I get your engine done, I might have to bolt it on for you to give it a try.
Randy - RPM
So Randy, the only difference between the early shock (eye mount) and the late model shock (clevis) is the lower mount?
The *overall* length of the early and late shocks are the same?
Overall, meaning the measured distance between the shock top eye and the lower (eye or clevis) mounting point.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 23, 2013, 04:01:38 PM
So Randy, the only difference between the early shock (eye mount) and the late model shock (clevis) is the lower mount?
The *overall* length of the early and late shocks are the same?
Overall, meaning the measured distance between the shock top eye and the lower (eye or clevis) mounting point.
Yes, the shock is overall the same, but the lower mounting point is the difference in the overall center to center mounting length.
So, if someone buys an early version shock and then upgrades to late model dog bone linkage, the lower mount can be exchanged.
All overall lengths, shock travels and other dimensions were taken directly from O.E. Yamaha shocks sent to the manufacture when all of this started.
Randy - RPM
Ok, very cool indeed. That makes it too simple.
Kudos Randy
The shock pictures have now been added to the website so you can see the shock and complete pacakge.
Randy - RPM
Randy,
We are really fortunate to have you and your business supporting our love affair with these old bikes. Investments in R&D, and taking other risks in developing new products are way over and above a normal retailers activities. Not to mention fantastic technical support and service second to none.
Talk about fj porn, the shock looks way to nice to stick it under a seat and subject it to road grime.
Well done,
Jeff
Quote from: jscgdunn on June 25, 2013, 02:02:15 PM
Randy,
We are really fortunate to have you and your business supporting our love affair with these old bikes. Investments in R&D, and taking other risks in developing new products are way over and above a normal retailers activities. Not to mention fantastic technical support and service second to none.
Talk about fj porn, the shock looks way to nice to stick it under a seat and subject it to road grime.
Well done,
Jeff
+1 Couldn't have said it any better!
Joe
Slip a snazzy RPM sock over it....no worries.
Ah yes....now we have FJ porn and FJ designer fashion. I guess Randy is the Ralph Lauren of the FJ world....I can see the commercials on PBS.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 25, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
Slip a snazzy RPM sock over it....no worries.
That is why it is included.
It is provided to protect your investment protects your investment.
Randy - RPM
I'm with you guys,shock looks to good to use :good2:
I'm in in the new shock! Just redeemed the proceeds from selling my Radian over at RPM for the new shock and a rebuild kit for the front forks. I put the RPM valves in last year, can't wait to feel the difference with the new shock and refreshed forks :yahoo:
Thanks for making all this available for us Randy!
Good evening everyone,
Well with everyone lining up for the new shock from RPM, I have to say that I am removing the shock from my FJ. I just cannot take it anymore! Following this years WCR and all the denigrating remarks about pink stripes, it was just too, too much. While Baldy seems to enjoy, participate & even bask in the effeminate & ribald nature of the remarks I will no longer be subject to such behavior.
Thank goodness the Klavdy was in attendance to offer support for the other proud owners of the 1991 Pink Stripers (there is a photo of Leon receiving consolation from Klavdy). He and he alone was able to keep Baldy in his place...!
Anyway, I am going to remove the RPM shock, despite that fact that it looks good, performs way beyond expectations, and the pricing is reasonable as well. Shoot, it cost less than my riding gear and unlike my riding gear it is a one time, lifetime investment. Approaching 15,000 miles and not one iota of wear or degradation in performance...
And I am removing the Fork Valves as well. When the Fork Valves are tuned with the rear shock there is a 'harmonic window' that is very impressive. Difficult to describe however once experienced, there in nothing quite like it.
But at any rate, I am removing both of those items from the 1991 and installing them in my new (to me) LOW mileage 1992 FJ 1200. So long pink stripe jokes and hello to the soon to be best handling 1992 FJ 1200...! Thank you Randy and the rest of the crew at RPM....!
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Mike, I love my '92. You will really notice the difference with those rubber engine mounts.
Feeling lonely? All alone in the world? Unloved?
Remember, the USD forks gets the chicks.... :good:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 30, 2013, 12:38:06 AM
Mike, I love my '92. You will really notice the difference with those rubber engine mounts.
Feeling lonely? All alone in the world? Unloved?
Remember, the USD forks gets the chicks.... :good:
eh Pat, the 91s use the rubber engine mounts too.
And like I told you, it's the Pink stripe that attracts the ladys!
Carry on!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on June 30, 2013, 01:01:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 30, 2013, 12:38:06 AM
Mike, I love my '92. You will really notice the difference with those rubber engine mounts.
Feeling lonely? All alone in the world? Unloved?
Remember, the USD forks gets the chicks.... :good:
eh Pat, the 91s use the rubber engine mounts too.
And like I told you, it's the Pink stripe that attracts the ladys!
Carry on!
Leon
:biggrin: Right on Leon !!! :good2:
There are ways to work around the pink stripe. Just repaint.... doesn't take long..... :sarcastic:
Derek
Ok, thanks Leon... I stand corrected....
Hi Randy,
Got the shock mounted up last weekend. The ride quality and comfort improvement from the shock was dramatic. Very pleased!
I had swapped in the Honda f4i shock last year and it was better than the 19 year old stocker, but your shock is miles better than the f4i, not surprisingly.
Just a little snip it from the first reviews I received via email from one of the first RPM shock owners.
He was even happy that he got to put the center stand bike on the bike too.
I'll let everyone post in their own words as they get them mounted & dialed in.
Randy - RPM
Grrrr!! I wish my job was not at risk right now... I hate my stock PoGo stick rear shock....
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
Grrrr!! I wish my job was not at risk right now... I hate my stock PoGo stick rear shock....
Monkey,
You can buy gift certificate a little at a time...Kind of like layaway.
RPM Gift Certificate (http://www.rpmracingca.com/giftcertificate.asp)
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 12, 2013, 08:29:48 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
Grrrr!! I wish my job was not at risk right now... I hate my stock PoGo stick rear shock....
Monkey,
You can buy gift certificate a little at a time...Kind of like layaway.
RPM Gift Certificate (http://www.rpmracingca.com/giftcertificate.asp)
Randy - RPM
I like the way you think, just not sure if my wife can be convinced.....
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
Grrrr!! I wish my job was not at risk right now... I hate my stock PoGo stick rear shock....
My company is always looking for good machinists and engineering types. :good2: Being in the middle of fly-over country the biggest downfall is the twisty roads are 500 miles away in two directions :mad:
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on July 12, 2013, 08:34:28 PM
My company is always looking for good machinists and engineering types. :good2: Being in the middle of fly-over country the biggest downfall is the twisty roads are 500 miles away in two directions :mad:
Fred
Thanks I think..... :empathy2:
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 08:31:55 PM
I like the way you think, just not sure if my wife can be convinced.....
Sell it to her in little installments, she'll be happier that way. Plus you can tell her it is a safety matter since you are riding a PoGo...
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 12, 2013, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 08:31:55 PM
I like the way you think, just not sure if my wife can be convinced.....
Sell it to her in little installments, she'll be happier that way. Plus you can tell her it is a safety matter since you are riding a PoGo...
Randy - RPM
I will see if I can work that angle into my needs vs. wants list...
Another thing I just did since the weigh issue was on my mid way to weight a stock shock compare to the RPM shock.
Stock shock with remote adjuster, chain & bolts: 9.3lbs.
RPM Early model shock: 6.2lbs
RPM Late model shock: 5.9lbs.
Over three pound of weight from your bike right there.
Randy - RPM
My doctor has been telling me to loose weight, this fits in well with his directions... The RPM shock my have some health advantages.... I love it... :good2:
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 12, 2013, 09:05:24 PM
My doctor has been telling me to loose weight, this fits in well with his directions... The RPM shock my have some health advantages.... I love it... :good2:
+1 :good:
Here is another primary report of the new shock,
Until tonight I had not had a chance to try my bike with the new shock installed. I have been working too much and it was driving nuts. I installed the shock about a week ago.
I took it for a ride tonight and OMFG!! It is a new bike...I have not set up the sag yet but whatever the setting you have it at is a huge improvement to what I was riding before. No floating around the corners, very firm and stable feeling.
Randy - RPM
Well, everyday should be a day to learn something...
Today, I learned that there are three versions of the FJ shock and differences coincide with the model changes.
84-88, 89-90 & 91-95.
So, there is a middle shock. The difference is in the mounting width and angles causing a minor interference with the charge port. The length of all shock is the same. I have already spoken to and forwarded all of the specs to the manufacture and the proper spacers should be ready shortly. They already have some ideas for the clearance issue of the charge port as well.
Unfortunately, I was thought there was only two versions of the FJ shock. Keep your eyes open for the middle version as soon as we can get them done.
So, if you guys are going to be updating you linkage as well, make sure you know what you have when you order the shock.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 15, 2013, 10:33:43 PM
Well, everyday should be a day to learn something...
Today, I learned that there are three versions of the FJ shock and differences coincide with the model changes.
84-88, 89-90 & 91-95.
So, there is a middle shock. The difference is in the mounting width and angles causing a minor interference with the charge port. The length of all shock is the same. I have already spoken to and forwarded all of the specs to the manufacture and the proper spacers should be ready shortly. They already have some ideas for the clearance issue of the charge port as well.
Unfortunately, I was thought there was only two versions of the FJ shock. Keep your eyes open for the middle version as soon as we can get them done.
So, if you guys are going to be updating you linkage as well, make sure you know what you have when you order the shock.
Randy - RPM
Its Ok Randy, I know you thought the 89/ 90 FJ was the best model and it probably didn't require improvements (yes I was the bunny with the new shock that found the "third" model). It looks like up to 1988 Yamaha made bikes for the younger generation then as a better bike they bought out the 89 /90, after that they realized riders are getting old so they bought out the 91 onwards, as for the FJR I think the zimmer frame hooks and doggy baskets speak for themselves :ireful: (popcorn).
Anyway I fitted the shock last night with minor modifications (Thanks for helping Randy - do you ever sleep?).
A quick history about Fremantle - Western Australia. It was the only major city (in WA)that had GPS co-ordinates that specifically showed you where the potholes were, it has improved a lot over the years but for some reason not the roads I take. It seems they build a road and then pass it to the water works to rip it up to fit new pipes.
I ride 37km to work and for the first time I found my self going over the rough roads to see if the RPM shock works, after all the bikes I had I can honestly say none compare. WOW is the only description I could think of.
The only concern I have is that for the first time the ride seemed - boring :sorry:. Also Randy I don't usually lock my bike but can you develop a chain lock for the shock please.
I'll take the "best" bike out on the weekend and I really have some roads to test it on -standby
Oh, I forgot,Randy why doesn't your RPM shock have a self lubricating shaft like my previous high performance shock? :rofl2: :biggrin:
FYI, this is what I wrote to Randy today about the RPM shock I rode with on the weekend. I initially tested without setting the rider sag. I have re-set the sag to 45mm and should have more to write next week. Anyway -
Randy, I thought about the 70mm rider sag and I agree the shock will
tighten at high speeds over rough bumps while leaning over. As I have
stated I am not into slow corners but high speed is where I believe I
am good at.
I'll go for another ride this weekend and see what change it made
(rider sag now is 45mm).
So far my impressions are great regardless, you seem to have the legal
speed limit suspension covered with a softer touch but the one thing
that worried me is how it would behave at high speed (not all the time).
When others (in the forum) wrote that they had good suspension either
top or bottom my first impression was "it can't be both", i.e an
Ohlins (my friends have these on other bikes) works as well as the RPM
shock BUT its either good up top end or bottom end but never both
(even my Hagon did the same - before it leaked).
The RPM shock seems to easily compete at the top (high speed) but it
creams the ohlins at the bottom (depends the the way an ohlins is
adjusted).
I believe a lot of FJ owners need to know this because when they hear
(I believe) that this shock is compliant at the lower end they
automatically think its shit at the top. That's why there are still
owners talking about buying Ohlins/ Hagon on the forum.
Put simply for value this can't be beaten, I know once I have the
sweet spot set this thing will rock.
The spring appears to be spot on for a single rider and it looks like
it'll easily cope with an extra load.
Like others I have a spot in the road that tests any shock, previously
at 120kph when I hit this spot (off camber dip around a medium speed
sweeper) depending on how the Hagon shock was setup it would twist or
throw the bike in the air. I purposely went at 140kph (holding for my
dear life and gritting teeth) with the RPM shock and yes I felt the
bump but the bike was in total control. Well done.
Quote from: Bozo on July 22, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
So far my impressions are great regardless, you seem to have the legal
speed limit suspension covered with a softer touch but the one thing
that worried me is how it would behave at high speed (not all the time).
When others (in the forum) wrote that they had good suspension either
top or bottom my first impression was "it can't be both"; i.e an
Ohlins (my friends have these on other bikes) works as well as the RPM
shock BUT its either good up top end or bottom end but never both
(even my Hagon did the same - before it leaked).
The RPM shock seems to easily compete at the top (high speed) but it
creams the ohlins at the bottom (depends the the way an ohlins is
adjusted).
I believe a lot of FJ owners need to know this because when they hear
(I believe) that this shock is compliant at the lower end they
automatically think its shit at the top. That's why there are still
owners talking about buying Ohlins/Hagon on the forum.
Put simply, for value this can't be beaten, I know once I have the
sweet spot set this thing will rock.
The spring appears to be spot on for a single rider and it looks like
it'll easily cope with an extra load.
Like others, I have a spot in the road that tests any shock, previously
at 120kph when I hit this spot (off camber dip around a medium speed
sweeper) depending on how the Hagon shock was setup it would twist or
throw the bike in the air. I purposely went at 140kph (holding for my
dear life and gritting teeth) with the RPM shock and yes I felt the
bump but the bike was in total control. Well done.
John,
Thanks for the update and I stated in the email I replied to you with, once you get into that range your adjustments will be small, 1/4 turn adjustments.
I am glad you like it and I hope others will see the value of the product as it by far exceeds the performance over every other brand shock on the market.
If you are thinking about getting the RPM shock you have until the end of the this month, July 2013, until the introductory price reduction offer of $50.00 off expires as well as a free RPM t-shirt.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them here or send me an email.
Thanks, Randy - RPM
With rider sag on the RPM shock set to 45mm (+front RPM emulators/0.85 springs) I went for the usual torture test and I found it hard to believe but it improved on my previous ride (70mm preload). This suspension is incredible. I went with two other riders (one has ohlins fitted to his bike) and both could not believe the ride quality. One rider took it well into very high speedo reading and his only comment after riding on an extremely bad road was "what bumps".
Howdy Bozo,
Strange how the name Bozo describes my appearance so accurately...!
Your description of the suspension from RPM also accurately describes my experience. When you tune the rear shock to the Fork Valves, there is a certain "harmonic window" which I have mentioned previously. It is a most enjoyable sensation which enhances the ride a considerable degree.
All the while when I had installed only the Fork Valves and Fork Brace, I appreciated the improvement in ride quality, however once the rear shock became available I never knew such a leap in that aforementioned ride quality could be elevated to such an extent.
So get ready to have a truly modern classic, as provide by the nice folks at R.P.M., which can compete with any road going motorcycle available today; noticeably (and enticingly) across a wide spectrum of riding conditions, not just a narrowly focused type of road or riding.
Even with the mods and the after market items installed, the amount of money invested is very modest as compared to the cost of a new or more recent motorcycle and the enjoyment factor just cannot be equaled...!
Congratulations and ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on July 28, 2013, 01:25:47 PM
Even with the mods and the after market items installed, the amount of money invested is very modest as compared to the cost of a new or more recent motorcycle and the enjoyment factor just cannot be equaled...!
Mike speaketh the truth, :drinks:
Quote from: Mike Ramos on July 28, 2013, 01:25:47 PM
Howdy Bozo,
Strange how the name Bozo describes my appearance so accurately...!
Your description of the suspension from RPM also accurately describes my experience. When you tune the rear shock to the Fork Valves, there is a certain "harmonic window" which I have mentioned previously. It is a most enjoyable sensation which enhances the ride a considerable degree.
All the while when I had installed only the Fork Valves and Fork Brace, I appreciated the improvement in ride quality, however once the rear shock became available I never knew such a leap in that aforementioned ride quality could be elevated to such an extent.
So get ready to have a truly modern classic, as provide by the nice folks at R.P.M., which can compete with any road going motorcycle available today; noticeably (and enticingly) across a wide spectrum of riding conditions, not just a narrowly focused type of road or riding.
Even with the mods and the after market items installed, the amount of money invested is very modest as compared to the cost of a new or more recent motorcycle and the enjoyment factor just cannot be equaled...!
Congratulations and ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Thanks Mike, I agree, considering the R&D (must be at least 50% of the cost per shock for low qty) that went into the RPM shock and that the final product is so bloody good I can't believe others are comparing prices of "off the shelf" Penske's.
I don't know Randy that well and normally I wouldn't go emailing about any product but I believe this is something that cannot be compared to a Penske** (see note) or for that matter an Ohlin (**I will admit I have not compared to a Penske but I have to a top of the range Ohlin).
I feel sorry for Randy when he put in such an effort into this product and a lot of "I want one" but from what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong Randy) sales are slow. If you think I'm saying this because I could afford one, think again I planned this for a year had garage sales - even tried to sell my border collie.
OK give it your best shot guys
Quote from: Bozo on July 28, 2013, 06:56:57 PM
I feel sorry for Randy when he put in such an effort into this product and a lot of "I want one" but from what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong Randy) sales are slow.
I am not sure if slow if is the correct word. I will say that I have been a little discouraged at the reception the shock received when I placed it onto the market. I do applaud the seven guys that trusted my work on the rear shock after all of the continued posting about the development, delays and tribulation of the product to finally arrive.
The same can also be said for the fork valves. Both of my FJ specifically designed items are continually compared to other aftermarket products that are not specific to the FJ or used parts from other makes of bikes.
Frankly, there is no comparison to what I have invested and manufactured to anything else on the market; period.
You cannot compare a RT fork valve, USD forks, a Penske, Hagon, Ohlin, Honda, BMW or any other rear shock to the Yamaha FJ1100/1200 specifically designed and manufactured products I am offering for your FJ because they do not incorporate the patented technology; period.
That is like comparing gold to lead to pot metal.
Sure, when any of the above are bolted on, modified to fit, parts removed and body panels cut, the bike will ride better because the stock shocks have exceeded its service limit and it needed to be replaced and I am glad members have had success, but at the same time these cannot be compared to anything I am offering.
I am offering direct bolt on, without modification, Yamaha FJ1100/1200 design products. These products also contain patented technology that no one on the market can provide. The RPM suspension components are and will continue to be head and shoulders above anything else because of this technology.
Plus, on the stock forks there is no drilling of the damper rod, or pressing the steering stem into a different triple tree or having specialty parts machined. For the rear shock you do not have to change out bearings & seals, cutting off the end and weld something else one, or finding a home for a remote reservoir. The center stand is still there, the swing arm linkage is kept in the range Yamaha designed it to function in and you never have to pay for an upgrade to the RPM product. It is the best product available and there is no reason for any options.
Drop them in, bolt them on and go riding. Make a few adjustments for rider preference and you can enjoy the ride.
I again thank everyone who has purchased from me, trusts in me and continues to support me in the FJ adventure. It is you guys that drive me to seek out manufactures who are willing to step up to design & manufacture small quantities FJ specific items. I wish I could say I do it only for me, but if it was just for me, I would have only made two...
Please do not feel sorry for me, it is a risk I am willing to take and will continue to take for the betterment of the FJ.
I do have some ideas for some cool things for the future, but only time will tell if I can afford to make them.
Randy - RPM
I appreciate that building a product like this is a lot of effort and an investment. Had I the cash, my order would already be in.
However, the truth is, I have an old bike because all I can afford is an old bike. The shock, even with the discount, is half of what I paid for the bike. While nice to have, it will take a bit of time for me to free up the funds to buy one. Fork valves and springs are probably going to come before the shock.
I hope it's still around by the time I can buy it.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 28, 2013, 08:15:02 PM
I appreciate that building a product like this is a lot of effort and an investment. Had I the cash, my order would already be in.
However, the truth is, I have an old bike because all I can afford is an old bike. The shock, even with the discount, is half of what I paid for the bike. While nice to have, it will take a bit of time for me to free up the funds to buy one. Fork valves and springs are probably going to come before the shock.
I hope it's still around by the time I can buy it.
Thank you for the support. I fully understand the cost point of view, we all have our budgets we all must live within and I also understand the question that Pat posed the other day in a different post. How much money can one spend on a 2-3K valued bike. That is the question that each person must answer on their own.
Don't worry they will still be around, I have a commitment to you guys & myself to let it ride and as more & more get into circulation the true performance and value will then be realized.
Randy - RPM
I will be upgrading my suspension over the next 6 months or so. :good2:
Front forks first, the brake upgrades have made braking inputs into suspension issues. Under really hard braking the forks compress so much that the front brake line splitter hits the fork brace. :ireful: An exexpected side effect of moditis. :rofl2:
Fred
Hello everyone,
Should there be any questions remaining about the veracity of the all around performance of the suspension components developed exclusively for the FJ's by the gentleman from RPM, perhaps the accompanying video puts them to rest.
It should be noted that I had a full tank of fuel plus about two gallons in the auxiliary fuel tank I use on cross country rides as well as moderately loaded soft saddle bags. Although the added weight is substantial, the suspension settings remain unchanged from when I am riding without baggage or extra fuel. It is a fact the settings are the same as when I attended the WCR.
There is no question the foremost advantage of the suspension system offered by RPM is its' ability to compensate for changes in load weight and of equal importance, the road surface conditions instantaneously without switching to different ride modes (which as illustrated in this video would not be feasible). It is no less remarkable that these compensations are made without electronics and the added complexity of such a system. Moreover, it seems impractical to set suspension settings with conventional forks and shocks to handle the wide variety of road conditions encountered on each ride.
Now the most Reverend Conlon has always said (and endorsed by the Klavdy) that if I stay on the straight and narrow I would one day see the light, however I did not expect, nor do I believe that this was what he meant...
Here we go: It was on an over the road ride when in the early morning hours before day light as I was cruising along favoring the slow lanes, a powerful full size sedan passed on the left at a high rate of speed. I do not know the make, however it had unique headlights and taillights, making it easy to keep track of. As silhouetted in the dark, it had a distinctive body style.
While the traffic was light that early, we motored right along and as he slowed when we encountered traffic, it was felt as if he would be conservative in his decisions. Although I am not familiar with the approaches, I am aware there are several entrances to the tunnels which change depending on time of day. As traffic lightened once again, we made a dash for the entrance and it became apparent that two were open in the direction we were traveling and that he was going for the left tunnel which gave me the right side unhindered.
Entering the tunnel, I encountered an undulating road surface which I thought would make the motorcycle airborne and upon regaining the road surface perhaps throw it against the tunnel walls. As I was riding the motorcycle at the moment, I thought I was going to be in a world of hurt.
However, when I opened my eyes again, low and behold there I was, still intact and quite happily so. There are actually two sets of undulations, the second set being more pronounced. As illustrated in the video, the forks are traveling their full length, however never bottoming or topping out. The rear shock was also mimicking the front, I did have the pegs heavily weighted and attempted to maintain a steady throttle but with limited success.
Of note: the freeway prior to and the sweepers after the tunnel are in decent shape, the tunnel entrance is as seen, crazily undulating (especially while motoring along) and the tunnel itself is as smooth as glass. All three conditions changed dramatically and instantaneously. It is difficult to continue to assert that other suspension systems could have handled the situation better than the components developed by the gentleman from R.P.M.
In closing, the situation illustrated is just a variation of what is typically encountered on the average ride, especially over unfamiliar roads. Thus the reason all the products developed by R.P.M. are held in such high regard. It is called self preservation...
My apologies as this post and the video itself are rather long; the car passes at about 30 seconds, the tunnel approach is at 4:10 and following the sprint with the same vehicle (120 mph or so) at the far side of the tunnel the video ends.
Tunnel #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O82EE6D3TI#ws)
Keep smiling & ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on July 28, 2013, 11:39:45 PM
Keep smiling & ride safe
"Do as I say, and not as I do", I suppose? :pardon:
That's some fast night riding on dark roads, my friend! Looked like fun, though.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 28, 2013, 08:15:02 PM
I appreciate that building a product like this is a lot of effort and an investment. Had I the cash, my order would already be in.
However, the truth is, I have an old bike because all I can afford is an old bike. The shock, even with the discount, is half of what I paid for the bike. While nice to have, it will take a bit of time for me to free up the funds to buy one. Fork valves and springs are probably going to come before the shock.
I hope it's still around by the time I can buy it.
Didn't mean to offend anyone, its obvious that family matters/ budgets always come first. I only meant if you can afford the new competition products save a bit more for the RPM its worth it.
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 28, 2013, 08:23:04 PM
I also understand the question that Pat posed the other day in a different post. How much money can one spend on a 2-3K valued bike.
Randy - RPM
If you were referring to customised paint, having your rims gold plated or your seat recovered with whale foreskin you would have to consider the above. But, if you intend to keep and ride your bike, it's market value is irrelevant when it comes to things like suspension and brakes. You're investing in the ride, not the machine.
The only thing here more common than people disagreeing with me on clutches is owners riding on a budget. In many cases, including me,the very fact they bought them the first place was a budget based decision, then fell in love with them later.
It's not a case of whether putting $1500 into a $2000 bike makes sense (of course it does), to many people, including me, it is simply a case of finding $1500 spare to throw at the bike in one hit.
I do not need to be sold on the wonders of the RPM suspension, that has been well documented. I got home from a long, fast, bumpy ride recently feeling like I had been kicked in the arse a thousand times.
My bike now needs F & R tyres, rego, insurance, top end gasket set and rings, "POOF" there goes $2000! Oh well, start saving again.
Noel
QuoteThe only thing here more common than people disagreeing with me on clutches is owners riding on a budget.
:lol:
But yes, Noel said it perfectly. Trust me, I have a carefully curated wishlist (http://wishlist.com/kylebaker) of FJ parts--as soon as my windfall comes, you can bet I'll be working through it!
...whenever that is. :sorry:
Well, I know that on my end it's not that I don't trust the work that was put into the RPM unit... it's having the liquid funds to pop for one.
Twice in the last year, my shock fund had reached the point where I could actually buy the Penske that I'd wanted for a long time, but by then the RPM shock was well in development, and i decided to wait. Predictably, yet another crisis came up, and the fund was depleted again.
I will buy one... and eventually another (and fork valves, too) for the project, but not right away. :unknown:
So I see this differently than most. I believe that Randy has the best out of the box shock on the market. Most of the riders here did not buy there bike new and the cost of the RPM shock is out of there budget. Same as any other top of the line shock. When you compare the F4I shock to Randy's there is no comparison in performance but $50 verses $1000. If you can get acceptable performance out of the $50-100 shocks and not half to scrimp and save putting all other mods on hold. I think this is the number one thing holding people back from ordering one. It is not a question of wanting one. If everybody bought the best then everyone would have a Cadillac, Lincoln, Mercedes, excreta but there a lot of Chevys and Fords on the road. Most people buy based on value this is the thing that will bring the customers, when they see the value. Low end Penske is $600 and not everybody has one of those. There is a big difference in $600 verses $1000. How many of us on the forum have a top of the line shock or any aftermarket shock? Then why not? This is not a putdown to Randy or meant to discourage him. Just to help understand the market. Randy potential customers need to see the value in spending the money for your shock over anything else, not just other shocks. Hope this helps.
Kurt
You know Kurt,
This is exactly where I have been sitting. I know that my budget dictates that the $1500 Randy suspension conversion be a save my nickels and dimes kind of affair when I have things like engine cases exploding and what not. That being said, with the data available on this suspension setup, I really do feel that the value is there. It may be a "you have to ride it" to kind of deal to make believers out of skeptics, but that video that Mike posted is pretty awesome. At the entrance of the tunnel where you see the wheel starting to go full stroke the way the rest of the image stays so stable in the frame is nothing short of amazing.
Sometimes these videos are deceiving in the sense that it's really hard to tell just how violent an action really is. Case in point, there's a video of the early F-22 flight trials where the pilot fell victim to a self-induced oscillation that was exacerbated by the flight control computer. The result was about eight oscillations in about two seconds going from +/-13g of acceleration. In the video it looks like just a little bobble up and down. But I can tell you that in the cockpit even 9g's is pretty dang intense. Especially going from positive to negative in such quick succession...
The point is, that suspension is REALLY working to keep the wheel in contact with the road AND prevent unwanted energy transfer to the frame.
That being said, I can't afford one... yet. I currently have a racetech cartridge valve emulator set installed, and an F4i shock I am modifying to fit. Total cost of the whole set of forks with emulators installed and the shock? $200. Even if I get 50% of the handling improvement I'll be more than satisfied. (For about 14% the cost) I can even get the F4i shock revalved and resprung for the FJ1200 and my body weight for another $200 making the cost about 30% that of the RPM suspension. For me that makes perfect sense because I can keep riding and building my skills so that when I can actually afford Randy's suspension I can really appreciate the improvement and use it.
There is a saying from another suspension manufacture that hits the nail on the head...
While I understand my market base and the ability to get a better level of performance over the stock suspension components with other components, I will never put a percentage value on it to compare with RPM products. That will have to be left up to the individuals who have felt and know the difference to do.
Again, the difference from anything you do to your bike with suspension products other than RPM is non-comparable as no other products have this patented technology built into the product.
Hopefully someday everyone will get an opportunity to ride an FJ with RPM suspension components and then you will be able to feel the difference for yourself.
But until then...
"The best you've ridden is the best you know." - Paul Thede
Randy - RPM
Quote from: skymasteres on July 29, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
...$1500 Randy suspension conversion...
Quote from: skymasteres on July 25, 2013, 01:26:32 PM
I mean, you're in for $1500 if you put one of Randy's suspensions on the bike...
FYI, I notice you have put down $1500.00 a couple of times now. I just checked and the fork valves, springs, oil & rear shock total with the discount is only $1304.64 and when the introductory offer expires it will only go up $50.00
I just want to make sure people understand that the price you are quoting is not the actual price of the items required to upgrade the suspension with RPM products. and $200.00 might make a difference.
Randy - RPM
I think that the RPM shock is the best you can buy because primarily it is designed specifically for the FJ not compromised for other applications and has been tested / refined by active real time FJ riders. All I can say is if I had the money I would get one. I do plan on buying front end emulators as my repair comes along. Any improvement in the rear right now will have to wait until my riding skill gets to a point where I can appreciate it.
I would say if I was going to spend 6- 800 for a brand X shock then I would step up to the RPM shock for the FJ.
I converted my 1990 to an f4i and am reasonably happy with it for 75.00. It's not perfect but better than stock, IMO. (even I can feel that). The cost of things usually has a relationship to how it preforms for a task involved. If you run hard / street or track race etc. and that's where you want to increase your skill's then top line suspensions, kangaroo hide racing suits, etc. is more appreciated than say a rider that tours and occasionally will to par take of some minor civil disobedience. :dance:
George
Quote from: movenon on July 29, 2013, 08:36:34 PM
The cost of things usually has a relationship to how it preforms for a task involved. If you run hard / street or track race etc. and that's where you want to increase your skill's then top line suspensions, kangaroo hide racing suits, etc. is more appreciated than say a rider that tours and occasionally will to par take of some minor civil disobedience. :dance:
George
George, its on the road you appreciate this suspension not dressed in a Wombat (or was that kangaroo) suit racing, this is where the real bumps are. For racing you get away with suspension setups to fit circuit whereas the RPM is overall road and without doubt racing. (As Marks video illustrates). I would down load my video from last week but since I have a speed showing I will not.
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 29, 2013, 07:41:16 PM
FYI, I notice you have put down $1500.00 a couple of times now. I just checked and the fork valves, springs, oil & rear shock total with the discount is only $1304.64 and when the introductory offer expires it will only go up $50.00
I just want to make sure people understand that the price you are quoting is not the actual price of the items required to upgrade the suspension with RPM products. and $200.00 might make a difference.
Randy - RPM
Sorry about that Randy. I was just quoting what I was budgeting for the upgrade for when I got around to it.
I figured most people would be doing the fork rebuild that the same time (It'd be kind of dumb not to since you're already there)
That's another $95.59.
So my budget was:
Fork Valves $209.18
Spings $137.99
Fork Oil $ 18.47
Fork Kit $ 95.39
Rear Shock $989.00
Making it $1450.03 before shipping and tax so I just called it $1500 even. (I'll never be able to buy it while the discount applies)
If you take out the fork rebuild kit it's still $1354.64 for the minimum components before tax and shipping.
For the unlucky among us where sales tax has once again gone up the total would be $1476.55 after tax and $1509.50 after shipping without the fork rebuild kit. With the fork kit the total goes up to $1616.48. (So much for my $1500 budget)
:flag_of_truce: I got all excited to be corrected down to $1354.64 too...
Although for you non Republik of Kalifornia customers you save a cool $81.28 in sales tax. (Almost enough for that fork rebuild kit)
Quote from: skymasteres on July 29, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
Sometimes these videos are deceiving in the sense that it's really hard to tell just how violent an action really is. Case in point, there's a video of the early F-22 flight trials where the pilot fell victim to a self-induced oscillation that was exacerbated by the flight control computer. The result was about eight oscillations in about two seconds going from +/-13g of acceleration. In the video it looks like just a little bobble up and down. But I can tell you that in the cockpit even 9g's is pretty dang intense. Especially going from positive to negative in such quick succession...
Since I'm sitting here in Oahu waiting for the hurricane to move thru, I'll disrupt this thread and drop a name on you. That pilot is Tom Morganfield. I worked with him when he was the chief test pilot on the F117 Stealth Fighter. One heck of a nice guy and a hell of a pilot! A lesser man would not have walked away from that F22 incident.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on July 30, 2013, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: skymasteres on July 29, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
Sometimes these videos are deceiving in the sense that it's really hard to tell just how violent an action really is. Case in point, there's a video of the early F-22 flight trials where the pilot fell victim to a self-induced oscillation that was exacerbated by the flight control computer. The result was about eight oscillations in about two seconds going from +/-13g of acceleration. In the video it looks like just a little bobble up and down. But I can tell you that in the cockpit even 9g's is pretty dang intense. Especially going from positive to negative in such quick succession...
Since I'm sitting here in Oahu waiting for the hurricane to move thru, I'll disrupt this thread and drop a name on you. That pilot is Tom Morganfield. I worked with him when he was the chief test pilot on the F117 Stealth Fighter. One heck of a nice guy and a hell of a pilot! A lesser man would not have walked away from that F22 incident.
I guess I'll ask the question, where is a copy of this video please?
Would be something to see thats for sure,
Well, the RPM shock thread is getting a little off base, but it is all related the the RPM suspension experience and at least you agree on the actual price I listed from the website.
Quote from: skymasteres on July 30, 2013, 01:28:23 AM
If you take out the fork rebuild kit it's still $1354.64 for the components before tax and shipping.
Quote from: skymasteres on July 30, 2013, 01:28:23 AM
I figured most people would be doing the fork rebuild that the same time (It'd be kind of dumb not to since you're already there)
The RPM fork valves can be installed without having to remove and disassemble the forks from the bike. The top cap and original springs are removed, then the oil is drained. From there the new parts and oil are installed. You do not have to break down the forks so replacement of the bushings and seals is much more work and you never "get there", unless you just want to replace them for maintenance reasons.
This is unlike the other fork valve on the market that require complete fork disassembly for modifications of the damper rod by drilling additional holes. If you are going to have to break the fork completely down, then "since you're already there" it would be prudent to replace the bushings & seals.
Finally, yes the shipping and taxes do have to be calculated into the equation, but unfortunately that is not money coming to RPM, it goes right out to pay the taxes and shipping costs, so please do not hold that expense against me.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Bozo on July 29, 2013, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: movenon on July 29, 2013, 08:36:34 PM
The cost of things usually has a relationship to how it preforms for a task involved. If you run hard / street or track race etc. and that's where you want to increase your skill's then top line suspensions, kangaroo hide racing suits, etc. is more appreciated than say a rider that tours and occasionally will to par take of some minor civil disobedience. :dance:
George
George, its on the road you appreciate this suspension not dressed in a Wombat (or was that kangaroo) suit racing, this is where the real bumps are. For racing you get away with suspension setups to fit circuit whereas the RPM is overall road and without doubt racing. (As Marks video illustrates). I would down load my video from last week but since I have a speed showing I will not.
No doubt RPM's suspension is the best one for the FJ. I guess what was getting at was higher performace products costs more money, but you have to evaluate how much performance your need or want. At preset my forks needs to catch up with my existing rear shock. :lol:
I hit a few real bone jarring chuck holes and my rear preformed very well considering I was over weight with loaded bags and top box. On a certified scale with me on it the weight was 900 lb.... I weight 212. It was loaded. The front end performance wasn't so good. On 2 occasions I stopped to check the front wheel but everything was OK. I will note that when I ordered my front tire I mistakenly ordered a 120/60-17 and thought that would be alright but I am of the opinion that 120/70-17 would be a better choice for our roads. The tire and rim were OK but I am uncomfortable with the low profile of the 60 tire, as I have bent cast rims in the past (BMW) I know how easy that is to do.
So my next suspension improvement will be front emulators and back to a 70 profile tire. Then I will see where I am with the rear shock. :dash2:
George
Good evening gentlemen,
If I may be allowed to make several observations concerning the RPM Shock:
First & foremost it is apparent that in the opinion of most members (and definitely all of those who have purchased the shock) is that the appearance, quality & performance of the shock from R.P.M. are above reproach and absolutely in a class by itself. This is perhaps the only subject pertaining to this Forum on which members agree.
Secondly budget considerations are certainly a high priority, and I myself am under considerable financial constraints, certainly on par with many others, probably under more restrictive financial demands than most.
However, we cannot discuss solely the actual cost of the R.P.M. shock itself. It should be noted that we are discussing the difference in cost between the RPM unit and its' competitors, which changes the equation significantly. The cost difference between lesser priced brands [which all agree do not perform as well] and the RPM unit is considerably less than the cost of other items, such as a set of tires. However, unlike tires and such, the cost incurred by the shock is a onetime expenditure which will last the life of the motorcycle itself. Amortizing this onetime amount over a period of time and factoring the diminishing cost per mile as the miles accumulate; it becomes clear that the cost is quite reasonable.
However, there is a point of diminishing returns, which should be addressed in this discussion and not necessarily of a financial nature. As other members have stated, the main improvement aside from performance is safety orientated. Those who believe that potential trouble awaits only during spirited riding are only fooling themselves. An incident and its' potentially severe and negative consequences can and does strike at anytime and anywhere.
I am of the opinion that the best tires, brakes, lighting, sound defensive driving and of equal necessity, yet perhaps not as well understood , the best suspension available are of the utmost importance. Slam on the brakes, drift wide or perhaps accelerate as hard as possible to extricate oneself from a hazard and all these factors come into play, all of them complimenting each other and without compromising each other.
Attend a Rally and you will see everyone wearing excellent protective gear. No compromise, all the gear all the time. The best protective gear available.
In my mind this same philosophy pertains to the motorcycle itself: the best after market, FJ exclusive components available to enhance the ride and to make it as safe as possible. It is called self-preservation.
Ride safely and keep smiling,
Mike Ramos.
Yes Mike, couldn't agree more on the safety, not just the comfort or sports handling, of good suspension.
Crotchety old bastard AND Contrarian
(although not on this occasion)
Quote from: ribbert on July 30, 2013, 11:00:08 PM
Yes Mike, couldn't agree more on the safety, not just the comfort or sports handling, of good suspension.
Crotchety old bastard AND Contrarian
(although not on this occasion)
Totally agree but my other main reason was because my back cannot handle road jolts (poor little possum) :shout:. When using the Corbin seat & Hagon Shock combination (It didn't matter how I set the preload/ damping) the bumps were always there. I could only ride for a short time before I re-fitted the softer standard seat.
Basically what really convinced me to buy an RPM shock was (as the test riders stated) the "smooth ride" & Quality of Ride (well dampened). Also now with the RPM setup I can use the Corbin seat -which saved me loosing half the cost of the seat if I sold it to some peanut in FJ land.
Funny after fitting both the RPM front and back the first thing a person does is go above the usual comfort zone to test it and how this setup exceeds expectations - what other system does that (in every way)
The idea that I could have a motorcycle that has a suspension setup that rivals (and possibly bests) modern bikes... How intoxicating is that idea?
A great deal--I'd say the majority--of the joy of riding is a direct result of the quality of the suspension components. Tires, and engine performance are the other parts of the equation, and then comfort (seating/handlebars/etc.).
If I got 1500 tomorrow and someone required me to immediately spend it on something I would just ENJOY? I know what would blurt out of my mouth...
50% better than old, worn out stock shock is great. But that next 50%? I dream of that bliss everytime I take the U-turn under the highway I live by and feel the limitations of my bike.
The cost of making your bike less shitty, $50? I'll probably do that in the next few months, if I get the chance.
The cost of making your bike perform beautifully, 1500~? I make $850 a month right now, but I hope to figure out a way to have it within the next year, if possible.
One day...
Just so Randy doesn't have to step in again.
That $1509.50 shipped figure is just for us Californian's
The rest of you get it for a slick $1373.35
And that 50% figure I threw out there is completely bogus. I have no way measuring or comparing the performance of Randy's product to suspensions I have not even installed yet. I was making a hypothetical argument about cost benefit ratio.
For me, even if I were to ride a bike so equipped, I wouldn't have the skills to fully appreciate it. I hope to change that eventually. So in the mean time I'll save my pennies and wait for the day that I can get one. Like the man says, it's the only bike out there with this technology in it. (But that just get's the gears turning with respect to what I might be able to put it in.. That interceptor is looking pretty promising..) (Relax guys, I'm joking about the interceptor. Can already hear people muttering "philistine" under their breaths) :flag_of_truce:
I was talking to Mark a couple weeks ago and he asked about the emulators I'm running. It went right back to "The best you know is the best you've ridden" For me the emulators gave me the ride two up that I felt Mike Ramos was describing. The feeling of the bike floating over the road like a low flying airplane, perfectly balanced and following every input that I commanded with amazing precision. The way it was following the exact line I wanted in spite of road seams and cracks was incredible. It was actually a really unique and magical one hour ride. Probably some of the most fun I've had on a motorcycle.
It just reminded me about Mike's comments that's all. But there you have the subjective. The objective is as follows:
Mike is riding his FJ solo, and in a completely different skill class from me. He's taking it out to extreems that I can only imagine at this point. My "magical" ride was covering the 405 to the 5 to the 14. A set of highways that don't really have "twisties" that any "real" rider would mention. (Well, maybe when you factor in velocity...) And I had a passenger which increased the sprung mass of the bike effectively adding more inertia to resist motion from suspension input. (The bike isn't nearly as smooth with just me on it)
So, if I can get that benefit out of the emulators at my piddly skill level, I can't imagine how well the real thing will work.
Quote from: skymasteres on July 31, 2013, 01:23:09 AM
Just so Randy doesn't have to step in again.
That $1509.50 shipped figure is just for us Californian's
The rest of you get it for a slick $1373.35
And that 50% figure I threw out there is completely bogus. I have no way measuring or comparing the performance of Randy's product to suspensions I have not even installed yet. I was making a hypothetical argument about cost benefit ratio.
For me, even if I were to ride a bike so equipped, I wouldn't have the skills to fully appreciate it. I hope to change that eventually. So in the mean time I'll save my pennies and wait for the day that I can get one. Like the man says, it's the only bike out there with this technology in it. (But that just get's the gears turning with respect to what I might be able to put it in.. That interceptor is looking pretty promising..) (Relax guys, I'm joking about the interceptor. Can already hear people muttering "philistine" under their breaths) :flag_of_truce:
I was talking to Mark a couple weeks ago and he asked about the emulators I'm running. It went right back to "The best you know is the best you've ridden" For me the emulators gave me the ride two up that I felt Mike Ramos was describing. The feeling of the bike floating over the road like a low flying airplane, perfectly balanced and following every input that I commanded with amazing precision. The way it was following the exact line I wanted in spite of road seams and cracks was incredible. It was actually a really unique and magical one hour ride. Probably some of the most fun I've had on a motorcycle.
It just reminded me about Mike's comments that's all. But there you have the subjective. The objective is as follows:
Mike is riding his FJ solo, and in a completely different skill class from me. He's taking it out to extreems that I can only imagine at this point. My "magical" ride was covering the 405 to the 5 to the 14. A set of highways that don't really have "twisties" that any "real" rider would mention. (Well, maybe when you factor in velocity...) And I had a passenger which increased the sprung mass of the bike effectively adding more inertia to resist motion from suspension input. (The bike isn't nearly as smooth with just me on it)
So, if I can get that benefit out of the emulators at my piddly skill level, I can't imagine how well the real thing will work.
OK, your the math wizz. You send me the money I will buy it less the tax from Randy and ship it back to you..... well most of it anyhow :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
Actually if you knew someone over in Nevada (Nellis ?) you you could go there and pick it up (that way no items would be missing....) :mocking:
George
Quote from: skymasteres on July 31, 2013, 01:23:09 AM
My "magical" ride was covering the 405 to the 5 to the 14. A set of highways that don't really have "twisties" that any "real" rider would mention. (Well, maybe when you factor in velocity...) And I had a passenger which increased the sprung mass of the bike effectively adding more inertia to resist motion from suspension input. (The bike isn't nearly as smooth with just me on it)
So, if I can get that benefit out of the emulators at my piddly skill level, I can't imagine how well the real thing will work.
Next time you need to go up to the Antelope valley on the 14 freeway. Take the Sierra Highway exit right after you get through the Newhall pass and Sierra Highway has some good twisties all the way into the Antelope Valley.
Fred