Hey everyone! New guy here with some FJ questions.
Bike is an 84 FJ-1100. Bought it in 1991 with a FZR-1000 front-end (forks/wheel/brakes) already swapped on.
Not long after buying bike, a guy next door to the shop I worked at, sold me a Kerker 4 into 2 exh, K&N individual air filters (air box was removed) and jetted it. He sounded like he knew what he was talking abt in the beginning, but after a couple of trys at jetting he said he didn't have time to tune it anymore. :mad:
Bike ran pretty good but the gas mileage dropped considerably and there was a considerable flat spot at 3K RPM. I tweaked the idle mixture and installed a washer under each needle clip which improved the flat spot. Never messed with the jetting any more. Rode the bike fairly regularly up until around 2006, then parked it.
Fast fwd to present: Removed tank, removed fuel petcock and drained tank. Didn't see any rust, old fuel still smelled like gas (I'm pretty sure I put stabilizer in before parking). Disassembled carbs and cleaned everything. Verified float levels. New gas.
Installed new batt. Bike fired right up. Idled perfect. Everything seemed fine until I went WOT in 3rd gear. Starting at around 6-7K rpm, engine misses/stutters. It still accelerates past 7K rpm, but not like it used to. 5th gear roll-on is strong and very smooth.
Pulled plugs and they look OK. Pulled cam covers and measured valve lash between .004 and .006" on intake and between .006 and .008" on exh, so I think that's OK. Can't find my compression gauge, but I think it is OK.
Now for the questions:
Any thoughts on next course of action for high RPM miss?
Anyone have recommended jetting for a 4 into 2 Kerker on a 1100?
Any suggestions for turn signals that only work when they want to?
Anyone switch fluid types for the clutch? I'm loosing case paint beneath the clutch slave cyl!! (Would like to try hyd oil, but afraid seals might not like it)
Thanks in adv for sharing any info,
John C.
did you take out the emulsion tubes , all the small holes in them could be blocked with dried fuel , , as for indicators , could be dirty connections or switch contacts
Quote from: zz28zz on September 18, 2012, 11:50:10 PM
Anyone switch fluid types for the clutch? I'm loosing case paint beneath the clutch slave cyl!! (Would like to try hyd oil, but afraid seals might not like it)
When I swapped to a YZF750 clutch m/c & braided line last year & rebuilt the slave , I also filled it with DOT5 fluid, which won't eat paint
So far, so good.
Welcome to the club, as you can already see we are a helpful bunch.
Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a nice FJ. The problem sounds like, something still plugged in carbs. Did you sync the carbs after the rebuild? Jetting help contact Randy at RPM. Hope this helps. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=69.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=69.0)
Kurt
G'day and welcome John. You can't use hyd oil in the clutch master and slave as it will destroy the seals. My advise is to buy a seal kit (RPM Randy is a good source for them) and fix the leak. You could use Dot 5 as has already been suggested. The miss at 6-7k rpm could be as simple as plugs breaking down but sounds like a dirty carb condition. FJ11.5 might be on the right track with the blocked emulsion tubes. May also be partially blocked main jets, low float levels also springs to mind. Hope you get it sorted soon so you can enjoy the Kookaloo feeling again. Regards, Pete.
Thx for the replies guys. Lots of good info already. I didn't pull the emulsion tubes. I've lost track of how many times I have cleaned the carbs since I owned this thing and never pulled the emulsion tubes. Maybe it's time..
I usually go thru a whole can of B-12 cleaner during the clean and follow-up with compressed air thru all the passages , but this last time I only had an ounce of two of B-12 on hand and no air compressor, so I did short-cut it a bit.
I didn't sync the carbs. I recently moved and my home-made manometers got tossed-out. Need to get another set. Which brings up another question, what do you think abt vac gauges VS monometers? I saw a mechanical gauge set on PRM's site, but I've always used manometers.
The clutch slave cyl is holding for the moment, but will get some seals coming. Does the sys need to be flushed to install DOT5 fluid or just drained?
Randy likes his gauges for syncing, flush out all traces of dot 3 or 4, the cleaner the better. Replace every year, dot 5 will not abdorb water and prevent rust.
Took a stab at the turn signal issue today while my clutch master cyl woes have the FJ out of commission.
After pouring over the schematic and taking some voltage measurements (so to appear that I knew what I was doing),, I discovered if I tap on the flasher relay I could get the turn signals to work. Verified connections were clean and came to the conclusion the issue resides within the relay box.
Decided to try my elec repair skills and began to disassemble the relay. Released the locks on both sides and the end-cap came off easy enough. I see a coil and a relay, oh this looks promising.. My enthusiasm quickly diminished as I tried to remove the PCB from the case.
They really don't want you to remove that PCB. Figuring I had nothing to loose, I persevered. Sliced the bottom of the case on both side and peeled off the bottom side below the PCB. It was glued on really good. Then discovered, towards the back of the relay, everything is encased in glue. With patience running out, I tried one last time to separate the board from its' enclosure. PCB broke in half.
I'm now hunting for a replacement flasher relay.
If someone wants to try repairing one,, good luck!!
have one here , I'm in TASMANIA so postage may be expensive if you can't find another , , as for the indicators, I swapped my standard 84 switches out for xjr ones , anyway the brass contacts bend away from the contact points of the switch so no matter how clean they are they only worked when they wanted too
Contact Randy at RPM. You'll be amazed by what he can get you. He recently got me a brand new right side '86 mirror. It's so nice now I have to get the left side to match. If it's out there he can find it and for a reasonable price.
Quote from: zz28zz on September 19, 2012, 08:07:51 AM
The clutch slave cyl is holding for the moment, but will get some seals coming. Does the sys need to be flushed to install DOT5 fluid or just drained?
I've swapped all my my bikes over to DOT5, following the recommended procedure from Motorcyclist magazine several years ago, which was to flush the system with contact cleaner. No problems, so far.
I did a little research on the subject of swapping to DOT5. There was conflicting info abt what to use for the flush agent.
Haven't heard of using contact cleaner. I'll be going back with a completely dry system. Suspect I can just install the DOT5.
Have you been replacing the fluid every year?
I've heard it doesn't absorb moisture that accumulates in the system and can cause corrosion if it isn't replaced annually.
maybe it could be flushed with .5 before filling and bleeding and blowing it out with compressed air ??
Quote from: zz28zz on October 10, 2012, 06:02:13 PM
I did a little research on the subject of swapping to DOT5. There was conflicting info abt what to use for the flush agent.
Haven't heard of using contact cleaner. I'll be going back with a completely dry system. Suspect I can just install the DOT5.
Have you been replacing the fluid every year?
I've heard it doesn't absorb moisture that accumulates in the system and can cause corrosion if it isn't replaced annually.
I've never had anyone tell exactly where they think that water is going to come from. If the system is properly bled, there's no water there for sure. If water were getting there from the outside, then you'd think there would be a problem keeping it bled, because air would surely be getting in, right?
The stuff was developed for military and other vehicles that might see long periods of storage between uses. I've never found any water in my brakes and no problems with them.
The FJ clutch might be an exception, since I can see where it might draw water in past the slave cylinder seals. We'll find out this fall, since I need to service the slave cylinder soon.
No, I don't change out the fluid every year. YMMV
Quote from: zz28zz on October 10, 2012, 06:02:13 PM
Have you been replacing the fluid every year?
I've heard it doesn't absorb moisture that accumulates in the system and can cause corrosion if it isn't replaced annually.
Correct, DOT 5 is non- hygroscopic, meaning that it does not absorb moisture that gets into the circuit.
DOT 3/4 absorbs this water and holds it in suspension, (until you flush out the old fluid) and thus prevents corrosion and rust on the system internals.
The problem with conventional bleeding/flushing of DOT 5 is that the bleed ports are typically located in the upper part of the chamber, which is good for bleeding off any trapped air, however not so good for flushing out any accumulated water, which settles to the low part of the chamber.
I have found that a MityVac gives an aggressive suction which helps remove and trapped moisture in the system. Conventional bleeding via the lever squeeze, is not enough. You need to blast that water out.
That said...I've had DOT 5 in my '84 for about 20 years now and things are ok...so far...DOT 5 has a softer feel at the front brake lever. When I rebuilt my clutch slave, I noticed the bottom half of the cylinder bore was pitted from corrosion and that the steel piston has rust on it...caused by trapped moisture no doubt.
I live in the desert with low humidity and, excepting the 2011 WCR, very rarely ride in the rain.
So....from my experience, if you live in a wet climate or travel thru the rain, I do not recommend DOT 5.
It is kinda nice to splash DOT 5 on your paint and not freak out.....
Quote from: not a lib on October 10, 2012, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: zz28zz on October 10, 2012, 06:02:13 PM
I did a little research on the subject of swapping to DOT5. There was conflicting info abt what to use for the flush agent.
Haven't heard of using contact cleaner. I'll be going back with a completely dry system. Suspect I can just install the DOT5.
Have you been replacing the fluid every year?
I've heard it doesn't absorb moisture that accumulates in the system and can cause corrosion if it isn't replaced annually.
I've never had anyone tell exactly where they think that water is going to come from. If the system is properly bled, there's no water there for sure. If water were getting there from the outside, then you'd think there would be a problem keeping it bled, because air would surely be getting in, right?
The stuff was developed for military and other vehicles that might see long periods of storage between uses. I've never found any water in my brakes and no problems with them.
The FJ clutch might be an exception, since I can see where it might draw water in past the slave cylinder seals. We'll find out this fall, since I need to service the slave cylinder soon.
No, I don't change out the fluid every year. YMMV
I've been scratching my head abt how moisture can get into the sys too. :scratch_one-s_head:
The only way I can think of is by way of the reservoir. There's
some air in there. When reservoir goes from hot to cold there would most likely be some condensation. Not very much, but over time it could add up. Kinda like how water collects in your exhaust pipes but on a much smaller scale.
Any condensation would go down to the bottom of the reservoir since it's heavier and slowly make it way to the lowest point. Just a theory, but seems plausible.
Water in the exhaust comes from combustion, easy to see every morning as the tin tops are merging into traffic before the engine is warm enough to turn it into steam... Brake systems?? I am with you on that one, thought they were sealed till the cover was opened again....
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 10, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
Water in the exhaust comes from combustion, easy to see every morning as the tin tops are merging into traffic before the engine is warm enough to turn it into steam... Brake systems?? I am with you on that one, thought they were sealed till the cover was opened again....
I was ready to disagree with ya on that, but after a bit of digging, you're more right than I was. :praising:
I've always been told the water coming from exh pipes was from condensation (which is correct), so I assumed it was from ambient moisture overnight. Apparently it is from the combustion gases condensing on the cold pipes during warm-up. As the exh gases leave the cyl head, the water is vaporized (even on cold engines), but when when the gases contact the cold exh pipes, the vapor condenses to a liquid. Once the pipes are hot, the water vapor stays in a gaseous state.
I'm feeling more edumacated now!! :crazy:
As for moisture entering brake sys, I did find this from http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml: (http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml:)
MOISTURE IN THE BRAKE SYSTEM
Water/moisture can be found in nearly all brake systems. Moisture enters the brake system in several ways. One of the more common ways is from using old or pre-opened fluid. Keep in mind, that brake fluid draws in moisture from the surrounding air. Tightly sealing brake fluid bottles and not storing them for long periods of time will help keep moisture out. When changing or bleeding brake fluid always replace master cylinder caps as soon as possible to prevent moisture from entering into the master cylinder. Condensation, (small moisture droplets) can form in lines and calipers. As caliper and line temperatures heat up and then cool repeatedly, condensation occurs, leaving behind an increase in moisture/water. Over time the moisture becomes trapped in the internal sections of calipers, lines, master cylinders, etc. When this water reaches 212º F the water turns to steam. Many times air in the brake system is a result of water that has turned to steam. The build up of steam will create air pressure in the system, sometimes to the point that enough pressure is created to push caliper pistons into the brake pad. This will create brake drag as the rotor and pads make contact and can also create more heat in the system. Diffusion is another way in that water/moisture may enter the system.
Diffusion occurs when over time moisture enters through rubber brake hoses. The use of hoses made from EPDM materials (Ethlene-Propylene-Diene-Materials) will reduce the amount of diffusion OR use steel braided brake hose with a non-rubber sleeve (usually Teflon) to greatly reduce the diffusion process.
Good info, thanks for posting it.
Quote from: zz28zz on October 12, 2012, 12:31:37 AM
MOISTURE IN THE BRAKE SYSTEM
Water/moisture can be found in nearly all brake systems. Moisture enters the brake system in several ways. One of the more common ways is from using old or pre-opened fluid. Keep in mind, that brake fluid draws in moisture from the surrounding air. Tightly sealing brake fluid bottles and not storing them for long periods of time will help keep moisture out. When changing or bleeding brake fluid always replace master cylinder caps as soon as possible to prevent moisture from entering into the master cylinder. Condensation, (small moisture droplets) can form in lines and calipers. As caliper and line temperatures heat up and then cool repeatedly, condensation occurs, leaving behind an increase in moisture/water. Over time the moisture becomes trapped in the internal sections of calipers, lines, master cylinders, etc. When this water reaches 212º F the water turns to steam. Many times air in the brake system is a result of water that has turned to steam. The build up of steam will create air pressure in the system, sometimes to the point that enough pressure is created to push caliper pistons into the brake pad. This will create brake drag as the rotor and pads make contact and can also create more heat in the system. Diffusion is another way in that water/moisture may enter the system.
Diffusion occurs when over time moisture enters through rubber brake hoses. The use of hoses made from EPDM materials (Ethlene-Propylene-Diene-Materials) will reduce the amount of diffusion OR use steel braided brake hose with a non-rubber sleeve (usually Teflon) to greatly reduce the diffusion process.
So, then, with the use of braided Teflon lines
and DOT 5 should keep moisture to a minimum, huh?
I'm gonna change out the front brake lines this winter anyway. The old covers on them have yellowed and look pretty crappy, and the DOT 5 has been in there long enough (5 years or so) that it has lost almost all color. I'll try to capture all of it I can when I drain the system, and see if I can detect any moisture.
The teflon lines and fresh fluid should go a long ways I would think.
I will go with DOT5 in the clutch for now. In a year I'll do a quick and dirty bleeding and then give her a bath.
If I like it, I'll switch the brakes over when I rebuild the calipers and master.
I converted both of my FJs to DOT 5 many years ago. I converted the front brakes on my '85 sometime in the '87 time frame. That fluid remained in there, untouched and unbled, until about 2002 when I swapped the front end and went to monobloc calipers (using DOT 5 in them also).
When I disassembled the stock calipers, they were sparkly clean and had absolutely NO rust or corrosion whatsoever on any of the components (after 15 years!).
The DOT 5 I used in the monoblocs during installation remained in those calipers, again untouched and unbled, until last week when I changed front brake pads. I went to the trouble to pop the pistons out of the calipers to clean everything up and guess what? Absolutely NO rust or corrosion on anything (after 10 years!).
So, given 25 years of using DOT 5, I'll venture to say that unless you decide to piss into your master cylinder while changing the fluid, the chances of suffering corrosion with DOT 5 fluid is remote (unless you store your FJ underwater).
And it's HUMID in the Dallas area during summer, and I wash my FJs a LOT so the calipers and master cylinder are frequently exposed to water.
FWIW,
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on October 12, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
So, given 25 years of using DOT 5, I'll venture to say that unless you decide to piss into your master cylinder while changing the fluid, the chances of suffering corrosion with DOT 5 fluid is remote (unless you store your FJ underwater).
And it's HUMID in the Dallas area during summer, and I wash my FJs a LOT so the calipers and master cylinder are frequently exposed to water.
FWIW,
DavidR.
Sounds like a smoking gun there, if the system is sealed (as it should be) then Dot 5 is the way to go. As long as you don't mind the brakes being slightly less crisp in the feel over Dot 3, 4. Good info David.
Anyone with bad experience using Dot 5?
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 12, 2012, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on October 12, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
So, given 25 years of using DOT 5, I'll venture to say that unless you decide to piss into your master cylinder while changing the fluid, the chances of suffering corrosion with DOT 5 fluid is remote (unless you store your FJ underwater).
And it's HUMID in the Dallas area during summer, and I wash my FJs a LOT so the calipers and master cylinder are frequently exposed to water.
FWIW,
DavidR.
Sounds like a smoking gun there, if the system is sealed (as it should be) then Dot 5 is the way to go. As long as you don't mind the brakes being slightly less crisp in the feel over Dot 3, 4. Good info David.
Anyone with bad experience using Dot 5?
I've never understood the 'lack of crispness' comments, either. :unknown:
David, you don't have 'urine cup' M/Cs, right? Does your DOT5 fluid still have the original color?
Mine is almost perfectly clear in the front brakes. The clutch is still purple after the first year. I just wondered if it was UV exposure or what.
Wait!!! If I switch to Dot 5 for my clutch I won't know when to rebuild the slave. With Dot 3 I can see the paint bubbling up before I get air in and can't change gears. Pros and Cons eh?
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 12, 2012, 05:09:51 PM
Wait!!! If I switch to Dot 5 for my clutch I won't know when to rebuild the slave. With Dot 3 I can see the paint bubbling up before I get air in and can't change gears. Pros and Cons eh?
Yeah, good point. You'd better stick with DOT3. :mocking:
Still have the stock masters. DOT 5 still clear to slightly purple-ish.
I rebuilt the clutch slave cylinder 3 times in the first 5 years of ownership. I finally gave up, bought a new slave, and converted the clutch system to DOT 5. I haven't had a single clutch slave problem since the late '80s.
The "mushiness" is absolutely unnoticeable.
Just once, can we try to NOT spout the same old crap everytime someone asks about DOT 5? I've had exceptional performance from DOT 5. Unfortunately, that message gets lost everytime someone posts all the "truths" that they read about it on the internet.
I post this same argument everytime this comes up because someone who doesn't use DOT 5 has to give an UNinformed OPINION.
Finally, NEVER use "racing" brake fluid. You don't need it and it goes bad WAY faster than regular fluid. Racers change their racing brake fluid before EVERY race.
DavidR.
dot 5 seems to have a lot going for it :good2:
All I can do is relate my personal experience with it. I know Gary Forman (who started the Yahoo FJ List) didn't have the success I had with his clutch using DOT 5.
Youir performance may vary depending on how well you flush the system and try not to spill your beer into the master cylinder when you bleed it. :-)
DavidR.
no chance of me spilling beer into anything :lol: drank my fill of every alcoholic drink, just waiting for everyone else to catch up :lol:
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on October 12, 2012, 11:06:54 PM
Just once, can we try to NOT spout the same old crap everytime someone asks about DOT 5? I've had exceptional performance from DOT 5. Unfortunately, that message gets lost everytime someone posts all the "truths" that they read about it on the internet.
I post this same argument everytime this comes up because someone who doesn't use DOT 5 has to give an UNinformed OPINION.
Amen! :good2:
I'm getting close. Got the new clutch slave cyl installed. Master is mounted.
Now for the line flush. I went to a few different stores but could not locate "contact cleaner".
I did find some "electrical cleaner". Guess I'll try that.
In regards to flushing the master cyl: I got the master cyl off ebay. It's pretty dry but the banjo bolt was a little wet with old brake fluid. Can I just spray some cleaner thru the holes in the reservoir into the the master cyl and spray in thru the banjo fitting, or does the plunger need to come out and get all traces of the Dot3 out?
I'll be introducing the Dot5 into the slave cyl bleeder port and back filling the reservoir anyway. So after the reservoir is full, I could suck all of it out with my vacuum bleeder gizmo and refill it again thru the slave bleeder port.
Sounds like I may have answered my own question.. :yes:
Oh yeah, I also got my flasher relay (from ebay) today. It's installed and I'm happy to report the turn signals are working like a champ!
I also discovered the starter circuit goes thru the flasher relay (I was wondering what the 4 extra wires were for. Schematic showed 5 wires, relay physically has 9 wires). I tried to crank eng with relay disconnected. Headlight went out so I know the starter switch was working, but the starter didn't make a sound. With replacement relay installed, eng cranks normally. That might be a handy piece of info to have in the future since the wiring diagram does not indicate the flasher relay contains starter circuitry. :shok:
Quote from: zz28zz on October 16, 2012, 12:38:35 PM
In regards to flushing the master cyl: I got the master cyl off ebay. It's pretty dry but the banjo bolt was a little wet with old brake fluid. Can I just spray some cleaner thru the holes in the reservoir into the the master cyl and spray in thru the banjo fitting, or does the plunger need to come out and get all traces of the Dot3 out?
You've come this far, why not clean it out? :unknown:
You already have the m/c on the workbench, right?
It's like only one snap ring, after all.
It might take you 10 extra minutes.
Quote from: not a lib on October 16, 2012, 01:26:46 PM
Quote from: zz28zz on October 16, 2012, 12:38:35 PM
In regards to flushing the master cyl: I got the master cyl off ebay. It's pretty dry but the banjo bolt was a little wet with old brake fluid. Can I just spray some cleaner thru the holes in the reservoir into the the master cyl and spray in thru the banjo fitting, or does the plunger need to come out and get all traces of the Dot3 out?
You've come this far, why not clean it out? :unknown:
You already have the m/c on the workbench, right?
It's like only one snap ring, after all.
It might take you 10 extra minutes.
Okay, you talked me into it. The master was actually installed, but no biggie.
I'm glad I did. There was more old fluid in there than I thought there would be.
Got everything buttoned-up and filled from slave bleeder port with syringe. After reservoir was full, I retracted the syringe a little and sucked some air out.
Lever felt pretty good right away. Bled it a few times the conventional way and got one little burp, then no more. I think I got it whooped!!
One thing I noticed abt the FJ1200 master; the clutch lever does not spring all the way back when released. My 1100 lever did as does the 1100 front brake lever. The 1100 lever actually has a little helper spring to assist lever moving to the release position. Noticed the 1200 master/lever does not have that provision.
You guys with original 1200 clutch master cyls; does the lever return all the way when released??
Quote from: zz28zz on October 16, 2012, 06:12:00 PM
One thing I noticed abt the FJ1200 master; the clutch lever does not spring all the way back when released. My 1100 lever did as does the 1100 front brake lever. The 1100 lever actually has a little helper spring to assist lever moving to the release position. Noticed the 1200 master/lever does not have that provision.
You guys with original 1200 clutch master cyls; does the lever return all the way when released??
My 3CV m/c had a lever return spring also.
Will the one from the 1100 fit?
Whats a 3cv?
The levers are different. The 1100 levers have a cutout for the spring to fit into, the 1200 lever doesn't.
Quote from: zz28zz on October 16, 2012, 08:26:25 PM
Whats a 3cv?
The levers are different. The 1100 levers have a cutout for the spring to fit into, the 1200 lever doesn't.
What year is your m/c? :scratch_one-s_head:
I just looked at the 'fische from each generation FJ, and each of them had a spring pictured.
You can look at them yourself here: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport)
Quote from: not a lib on October 16, 2012, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: zz28zz on October 16, 2012, 08:26:25 PM
Whats a 3cv?
The levers are different. The 1100 levers have a cutout for the spring to fit into, the 1200 lever doesn't.
What year is your m/c? :scratch_one-s_head:
I just looked at the 'fische from each generation FJ, and each of them had a spring pictured.
You can look at them yourself here: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport)
The bike is an 84 model.
Not sure what year the clutch master cyl is from. It was listed only as FJ-1200..
I'm looking at the 86 FJ1200 "Front master cylinder 2" diagram. I don't see the spring. You may be looking at the front brake master cyl diagram.
When I look at 84 FJ1100 "Handle switch lever" diagram I see the little spring (item 23).
(The clutch lever moves from one diagram to another between 85 and 86 models)
After looking at the diagrams some more, I think I figured it out. The 1100 has the assist spring on the lever out in the open. The 1200 has the assist spring inside the master cyl.
If you look at the master cyl (clutch) rebuild kits, the 1100 doesn't have the little assist spring. The 1200 rebuild kit does have the little assist spring (in addition to the main spring).
I had the 1200 clutch master cyl plunger assy out this afternoon, but failed to notice if the little spring was there or not. Now it's all back together and full of fluid.
Went out to the shop and pulled the clutch lever off. Something is not right. The push rod goes all the way thru the bushing, that rides in the lever, and is digging into the lever itself.
Basically it appears the bushing isn't taking any of the load. Maybe the push rod is installed backwards?? I pulled the rubber dust cover out and didn't see a little spring.
It's not real clear at this point if I'm supposed to see the little spring or not with out pulling the snap-ring and disassembling the master cyl..
Getting late. I'll dig into it more tomorrow..
When I rebuilt my clutch master I reassembled it with the plunger rod in backwards. The lever felt wrong, felt like it had air in the system after much bleeding. Got really frustrated and took a break. Then thought it through, what could go wrong? Figured the plunger might have been flipped. So I turned it around and my clutch was back, felt perfect.
Spent some time this morn checking the clutch push-rod. It was in backwards. Had to tug on it pretty good to pull it out. Turned it around and reassembled. It was better but still not quite right. Lever still didn't retract all the way when released and clutch didn't completely release until lever was almost to the grip. The enlarged (middle) part of the pushrod is contacting the lever now. Isn't the bushing (in lever) supposed to provide the push on the push-rod?
Seems like I'm missing a piece. Guess I need to snap a pic and post it. Maybe someone can tell me what is missing.
Installed a thick washer over the rod and that helped with the disengage point, but still wouldn't return to full fwd position. Found an old spring in my magic tool box and cut it to what seemed like the best length. Installed in on the other side of pushrod. Walla, lever goes full fwd when released.
With the clutch working better, went for the first test drive since starting all this work. Eng ran good, no carb issues and front forks are working well. Even the turn signals were functioning properly.
Unfortunately the "good" road (the one that makes my passengers car sick) was recently resurfaced. Lots of loose gravel. At least there wasn't any traffic..
Not happy with front brake perf. When first applied, nothing, squeeze a little more then semi-hard braking, not much in between (not so good with loose gravel on the road). Brakes are gripping well. Was able to lock wheel no problem on good pavement. Not sure if master needs rebuild, or maybe there's still air in system, but it sorta feels like something is sticking, then releasing.
Just as I was turning off highway onto my street, rear brake pedal dropped straight down. Pulled into garage and discovered the pin that connects the brake pedal to the link (I have rearsets) fell out. :shok:
Glad it didn't happen in the twisties!!
Search all thru the magic tool box for something to replace pin with, but nada.
Fired off an email to Tarozzi. We'll see how good their customer service is.. (popcorn)
My neighbor has a 68' pan head HD, nicely restored, that he took for a short ride a few weeks ago. Not far from home he was braking and felt a thump in the front and a distinct lack of stopping power. Turns out the adapter bracket for the hydraulic brakes had lost the primary bolt and let the caliper fly loose. Lucky for him he was going slow. Lucky for you it was only the rear brake...
Back in the day, when street bikes had drum brakes, I replaced the rear tire for a buddy. On the test drive I discovered that I have not secured the backing plate anti-rotation rod (Kaw 440 LTD). Had it on the highway and was taking the cloverleaf to test out the rear-end traction. I was just starting to lean her over and elected for a tiny amount of rear brake to help drop her into the corner. The instant I touched the rear brake, it kicked back up with tremendous force. Glad I was wearing boots! The brake lever came up striking the foot peg and actually broke the brake lever in half. Brake actuator rod was wrapped around the axle a few times. That took some explaining!!
Quote from: zz28zz on October 17, 2012, 10:03:28 PM
Back in the day, when street bikes had drum brakes, I replaced the rear tire for a buddy. On the test drive I discovered that I have not secured the backing plate anti-rotation rod (Kaw 440 LTD). Had it on the highway and was taking the cloverleaf to test out the rear-end traction. I was just starting to lean her over and elected for a tiny amount of rear brake to help drop her into the corner. The instant I touched the rear brake, it kicked back up with tremendous force. Glad I was wearing boots! The brake lever came up striking the foot peg and actually broke the brake lever in half. Brake actuator rod was wrapped around the axle a few times. That took some explaining!!
Kinda like this?
A friend's V-Star that I ended up fixing this summer after a local chopper shop mounted a new rear tire:
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/542116_10150869470359007_1165737107_n_zpsaa9b3407.jpg)
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/306956_10150869470204007_1194650957_n_zps8823ab6f.jpg)
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/165453_10150869470049007_1333943528_n_zps08acf98a.jpg)
Yeah, like that. Except I managed to wrap the rod around at least 3 times. Was that a low speed discovery? Looks like a very effective parking brake. :rofl2:
Quote from: zz28zz on October 17, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
Not happy with front brake perf. When first applied, nothing, squeeze a little more then semi-hard braking, not much in between (not so good with loose gravel on the road). Brakes are gripping well. Was able to lock wheel no problem on good pavement. Not sure if master needs rebuild, or maybe there's still air in system, but it sorta feels like something is sticking, then releasing.
Sounds like the way my front brakes worked when I tried the EBC kevlar pads.... On the dealers recommendation. I took them back and demanded they replace them with OEM pads... They did, no charge. It was VERY obvious I was
pissed!
Quote from: zz28zz on October 17, 2012, 11:24:58 PM
Yeah, like that. Except I managed to wrap the rod around at least 3 times. Was that a low speed discovery? Looks like a very effective parking brake. :rofl2:
It happened at about 20 mph.
Surprisingly, the brake was not dragging as pictured, and the bike was ridden over to my garage for repair.
Once the owner of the bike shop saw the pictures (which had been posted on my Facebook page without the shop's name), he quickly coughed up the cash for the repairs, which the owner (understandably) didn't want
his shop to perform.
Quote from: RichBaker on October 18, 2012, 12:35:34 AM
Quote from: zz28zz on October 17, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
Not happy with front brake perf. When first applied, nothing, squeeze a little more then semi-hard braking, not much in between (not so good with loose gravel on the road). Brakes are gripping well. Was able to lock wheel no problem on good pavement. Not sure if master needs rebuild, or maybe there's still air in system, but it sorta feels like something is sticking, then releasing.
Sounds like the way my front brakes worked when I tried the EBC kevlar pads.... On the dealers recommendation. I took them back and demanded they replace them with OEM pads... They did, no charge. It was VERY obvious I was pissed!
I just installed EBC HH sintered pads. From what I hear, everyone likes them. I'm hoping they will get better over time, but hasn't improved much in the first 60 miles. The lever pull is not consistent either. Sometimes lever is closer to grip than other times for the same rate of braking. I'll try bleeding again. If that doesn't work, may need to start looking for a 14mm master cyl.
Quote from: not a lib on October 18, 2012, 05:21:52 AM
Quote from: zz28zz on October 17, 2012, 11:24:58 PM
Yeah, like that. Except I managed to wrap the rod around at least 3 times. Was that a low speed discovery? Looks like a very effective parking brake. :rofl2:
It happened at about 20 mph.
Surprisingly, the brake was not dragging as pictured, and the bike was ridden over to my garage for repair.
Once the owner of the bike shop saw the pictures (which had been posted on my Facebook page without the shop's name), he quickly coughed up the cash for the repairs, which the owner (understandably) didn't want his shop to perform.
Sounds like brake cam must have went over-center far enough to release the brakes.
Did the front forks leak fork oil onto the brake calipers? If so, then you'll need to rebuild the calipers as the oil makes the seals swell up and causes "notchy" braking like you're describing.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on October 18, 2012, 01:56:43 PM
Did the front forks leak fork oil onto the brake calipers? If so, then you'll need to rebuild the calipers as the oil makes the seals swell up and causes "notchy" braking like you're describing.
DavidR.
Fork oil did get on calipers (and everything else). I pulled them off and popped the pistons out to clean the buildup of gunk on the exposed part of the pistons. Did not replace seals. Just wiped clean with a rag and reinstalled the pistons. I thought I had got away without replacing the seals when they held pressure for a few days when I had brake lever ty-wraped for final bleeding.
Makes sense though. Thx for chiming in :i_am_so_happy:
I'll start looking for a set of seals.
Any tips on replacing the seals? They're from a 87-88 FZR-1000 if that matters..Saw somewhere not to split the caliper halves cause they are difficult to get resealed.. Now that I think abt it, the seals between the caliper halfs may have got fork oil on them. Think they are OK?
New seals for old style calipers will be ridiculously expensive.
Once they are contaminated, they are junk.
I might have some old seals that I could send you. I replaced mine (that's how I found out how stupidly expensive they are) many years ago and still have the calipers somewhere. Those seals should be in good shape. I've upgraded to the '89 front end with monoblocs.
EDIT: Oops, guess I should read more closely. Are the FZ calipers 4 piston or 2?
DavidR.
The calipers are off a 87-88 FZR-1000 and they are 4 piston.
I already ordered a set online. Thx for the offer though. :yes:
You're right, they weren't cheap at all. Close to $90 for both front calipers plus shipping.
I've had the pistons out already and cleaned them, but I've never replaced caliper seals on a motorcycle caliper.
Any tips on removing and installing the seals. Don't wanna mess them up!!
It's realtively straight forward on replacement. They are square cross section seals in a square groove. Use a dental pick and gently pull them out without scratching the groove. Each piston will have 2 seals, a dust seal and a larger piston seal.
How many seal "kits" did you buy? If you only ordered 1 kit for each caliper, then you're only going to have enough seals to rebuild one caliper. I did that when I rebuilt my '93 calipers. Seems a "kit" only comes with seals to replace one side (or only 2 pistons). I was all finished with a fork rebuild and major maintenance and only needed to finish the front calipers. I only had half of the seals that I needed. Had to wait another week for more seals to come in.
You might want to check and see if you ordered enough kits.
DavidR.
I ordered 4 kits. Each kits contains 2 press seals and 2 dust seals, so think I'm ok in that regard.
When I removed the pistons, it took 100 psi of air press to get them out. I got one out, cleaned it up and reinstalled it. Then secure it and 2 other pistons with ty-wraps, c-clamp, whatever and applied air press again to blow out the next one and so on.. I was surprised how much press it took to get them out.
In retrospect, the theory abt leaking fork oil swelling, or making them "notchy", seems spot on.
When you install the seals, do you install them wet or dry? I know the pistons will need to be wet when they go in.
Is it obvious which way the seals go in? I'm assuming the lip will need to face the fluid.
In regards to my email to Tarozzi, they responded with a link to their US distributor.
Looks like a good source for rearset parts. https://www.fastfromthepast.com (https://www.fastfromthepast.com) (not affiliated with them at all)
I ordered the pin and circlips I was missing (plus a couple of extras). Prices are good, but shipping was a bit steep.
Dist emailed me with exact part descriptions and a suggestion I thought I pass along to any fellow bikers with rear sets; put a dab of silicone on the circlips to prevent them from jumping off!! :i_am_so_happy:
"Oil" the seals with brake fluid before installing. The kits may come with some special seal lube, if not just use whatever kind of brake fluid you're going to use. The seals are not directional, no lip, simply a square cross section friction seal.
Based on my contaminated brake experience and the description of your brake performance, I believe this step will cure your brake problems.
DavidR.
David & others...
Should I be looking for FZR kits for inventory?
Randy - RPM
Okay, after doing some research today the 87-88 FZR1000 calipers use the same rebuild kit as the 89-93 FJ1200.
I have those kits in stock and each kit has the seals for rebuilding one four (4) piston caliper.
Yamaha 89-93 FJ1200/87-88 FZR1000 Caliper Rebuild Kit (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACaliperkit%282%29)
Heck, I have even added the caliper pistons to inventory as well and they will be here on Wednesday.
Yamaha 89-93 FJ1200/87-88 FZR1000 Caliper Piston (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACaliperpiston%282%29)
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 22, 2012, 09:04:48 PM
Okay, after doing some research today the 87-88 FZR1000 calipers use the same rebuild kit as the 89-93 FJ1200.
I have those kits in stock and each kit has the seals for rebuilding one four (4) piston caliper.
Yamaha 89-93 FJ1200/87-88 FZR1000 Caliper Rebuild Kit (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACaliperkit%282%29)
Heck, I have even added the caliper pistons to inventory as well and they will be here on Wednesday.
Yamaha 89-93 FJ1200/87-88 FZR1000 Caliper Piston (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACaliperpiston%282%29)
Randy - RPM
My research indicated the same thing. I found the seal kits on your site and started the order process. When I changed my quanity to 2, it turned red and indicated you only had 1 kit in stock.
I just tried it again and it let me change quanity to 2.
Did you add a kit to stock in the last couple of days? I would have preferred to buy from you. :yes:
Quote from: zz28zz on October 23, 2012, 01:26:31 AM
My research indicated the same thing. I found the seal kits on your site and started the order process. When I changed my quanity to 2, it turned red and indicated you only had 1 kit in stock.
I just tried it again and it let me change quanity to 2.
Did you add a kit to stock in the last couple of days? I would have preferred to buy from you. :yes:
Yes, my stock order came in yesterday. If at anytime you come across something like that send me an email. I can get things quick than my weekly stock order if required on many parts.
Randy - RPM
Installed the new seals in my front calipers yesterday. Introduced fluid into the caliper bleeder ports with a syringe and clear tubing. Bled brakes at calipers bleeders and at master cyl hose connection.
Ty-wrap installed overnight. Cut ty-wrap and went for a spin today. Front brakes are working perfect! :yahoo:
When I removed the old seals it was apparent they were swollen. I placed an old seal over a piston and there was abt a 1/8 gap between the piston and seal.
Thx David for the tip on fork oil swelling the seals!
Also received the pin and clips I was missing for the rear brake linkage. I'll be sure to carry a spare in the tool kit from now on..
Now for some tires..