I bought a nice new set of Avon's a while back, and always noticed a little bit of a pull to one side when stopping, I thought it might be a warped rotor, never gave it much thought.
I've notice that at certain speeds, the front end shakes if you let off the handlebars - Many motorcycles just have this trait, and I have told the owner to not take their flipping hands off the handlebars.
No worries, nice new tire - then today, I noticed something strange, WTF! I have a nearly bald spot on the tire - one stop, the rest of the tire is like new, or darn good to say the least.
I noticed it first in the profile - instead of nice and round like the other 90% of the tire, this section is "a concern".
The right side -
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/goeway2012/Motohorseman/CIMG4524.jpg)
I had a closer look, worn to the tread wear indicator and beyond - in this one section of the tire!
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/goeway2012/Motohorseman/CIMG4526.jpg)
I whole little section is worn out - Again, see the right side of the tire
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/goeway2012/Motohorseman/CIMG4525.jpg)
The rest of the tire is like new - with one exception, on the other side there is also a worn spot, although not nearly as bad.
Here is another picture showing the total destruction of the profile, heck, I'm not sure I want to ride on it any more.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/goeway2012/Motohorseman/CIMG4527.jpg)
I need a tire, that is a given. Steering head bearings feel good, I'm thinking I need to replace the fork oil or ?
Any thoughts, ideas, I want to order parts but in this economy, I need to be as frugal as possible.
I do not feel the rotor pulsing in the hand brake lever, usually I can feel that, and I am not sure that would cause this wear.
Psychic mechanics, your help is appreciated!
Quote from: motohorseman on August 06, 2012, 02:06:21 PM
I bought a nice new set of Avon's a while back, and always noticed a little bit of a pull to one side when stopping, I thought it might be a warped rotor, never gave it much thought.
How many miles? I had an Avon Storm 2 ST do something similar. Noticed it first by viewing the profile. I chocked it up to slight underinflation although after I began checking pressure more often, the tire still seemed to continue to deteriorate rather quickly. I think, without checking my records, that I got about 12k out of it. Replaced with Michelin Pilot Road 2 and it's wearing much better. My thoughts are it's the tire and not necessarily anything with the bike. But come to think of it, I did a fork rebuild about 4k miles ago but already had probably at least 2k on the tire before doing that. Had a motorcycle mechanic tell me the V-rated tires and above are very sensitive to inflation pressures.
Quote from: soundmindryan on August 06, 2012, 02:38:29 PM
Quote from: motohorseman on August 06, 2012, 02:06:21 PM
I bought a nice new set of Avon's a while back, and always noticed a little bit of a pull to one side when stopping, I thought it might be a warped rotor, never gave it much thought.
How many miles? I had an Avon Storm 2 ST do something similar. Noticed it first by viewing the profile. I chocked it up to slight underinflation although after I began checking pressure more often, the tire still seemed to continue to deteriorate rather quickly. I think, without checking my records, that I got about 12k out of it. Replaced with Michelin Pilot Road 2 and it's wearing much better. My thoughts are it's the tire and not necessarily anything with the bike. But come to think of it, I did a fork rebuild about 4k miles ago but already had probably at least 2k on the tire before doing that. Had a motorcycle mechanic tell me the V-rated tires and above are very sensitive to inflation pressures.
Not that many miles, I'm guessing but I'd say less than 5000, probably for sure less than 5000. I always keep my pressure at the higher end of the scale.
My memory seems to think I've had issues with a Avon before......
I tended to wear out my Avon front evenly on both sides. Not sure how you are doing this. Is the other tire doing the same?
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=287.msg2088#msg2088 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=287.msg2088#msg2088)
maybe the shape of the road crown :wacko3:
Just a thought. Do you have the tires balanced when they are mounted?
Avons are known for spotty quality control. I've had good luck with their rear tires, but its been hit or miss with the fronts. May be a monday or friday set of tires.
Contact Avon and see if they will do anything for you..... there is nothing that a motorcycle/rider can do to make a tire look like that.
First and foremost....tires are supposed to be round. :good2:
KOokaloo!
What Frank said! That tire looks like you are riding around r/h corners continuously. Get onto Avon - send them your photos. There is for sure something amiss with that tire.
Harvy
Wow... I find it hard to blame the tire. But.. I would check everything with a fine tooth comb. Check your rear tire alinement with the front. Somewhere I read where they were using a couple of cheap laser levels to check the rear to front tire alinement. There is a lot that can go wrong between the rear and front end. Check head bearings, and forks of course. It helps to make as many right as left hand turns, hee, hee :). Hope you locate the problem. Wish I knew more to contribute.
Quote from: markmartin on August 06, 2012, 06:53:24 PM
Just a thought. Do you have the tires balanced when they are mounted?
I mount and balance my own tires - have for the past decade or so.....
This is a new problem to me. After working at 2 dealerships, I want to blame the tire, but.....
As soon as I can make the time, I'll start checking the bike.
One spot, I never would of noticed if it was not in the exact right position, glad I did, I tend to ride hard, and a blow front is the worst of the worst IMO....
I've had a tire do that. One fork leg was dry, one was filled with sludge. Happened to a metzler, I think.
I'm with Frank and Harvey, I can't figure how anything else other than the tire or maybe it's relationship with the rim could cause that...if there's some evil forces coming from bike that creates issues at the contact point of tire and the road, wouldn't it affect the tire's contact 360 degrees instead of only when that 10% section came around?...have you made sure the tire bead is evenly set all the way around the rim?...good luck, I hope Avon get's you a new tire
I had a PR2 do that years ago, was just a crap tyre, all my other PR2's have been fine.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/scotw99/P1010010-2.jpg)
After taking a second look at your tires and considering my personal experience with Avon's I think I can offer some additional advice. You really need to hit the corners more. I tend to leave some life on the top part of the tire. For some reason they put more tread there making it the thicker part of the tire. But I don't commute with my FJ, I find the shortest route to the twisty roads and enjoy.
So, if you can find a way to stay off the straight roads then you might never have discovered this current and bizarre wear problem you are having. Ride around the problem by having more fun leaned over. Just remember, advice is is not always worth what you paid for it, and free advice is....well possibly worth less that what you paid, even if came from a monkey dressed up in a Red Power Ranger suit.... :drinks:
Quote from: andyb on August 06, 2012, 09:34:42 PM
I've had a tire do that. One fork leg was dry, one was filled with sludge. Happened to a metzler, I think.
I've got a feeling you're right, normally that wear pattern is suspension related, or so it seems.
Time is limited, I'd rather do it right, but I may just try draining and replacing the fork oil. If it comes out looking really bad, well, guess I'll be pulling them off for a freshening up.
Thanks everyone!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on August 06, 2012, 07:13:27 PM
Contact Avon and see if they will do anything for you..... there is nothing that a motorcycle/rider can do to make a tire look like that.
Ditto. Avon has a factory road hazard warranty so they're used to replacing tires. I've used it. Contact your supplier. They may be able to help.
I will add my 2 cents. I have no experience with Avon tires. Giving the tire the benefit of doubt. I would look at suspension. check the fork oil levels and make sure they are at the correct levels. Another possibility is that one fork tube has risen slightly in the triple tree causing the tire contact patch to be at an angle.
Quote from: aviationfred on August 08, 2012, 12:02:16 PM
I will add my 2 cents. I have no experience with Avon tires. Giving the tire the benefit of doubt. I would look at suspension. check the fork oil levels and make sure they are at the correct levels. Another possibility is that one fork tube has risen slightly in the triple tree causing the tire contact patch to be at an angle.
that cannot happen.... the axle holds the wheel and forks square. the forks and wheel all go up and down together regardless of fork oil level
most all of the new bikes have only rebound damping in one fork leg and compression damping in the other fork leg.... if your scenario worked as you say then all the new bikes would be suffering the same weird tire wear.
the problem is the tire.
Kookaloo!
Concur with Frank on this one.. That tire is a dud and Avon will replace it. I went through several sets of Avons and discovered that they never really wore the same. I used to think that I was riding more or less aggressively and that was changing the wear rate and pattern. Then I realized that my riding has stayed pretty much the same across 4-5 sets of Avons.
This was part of my motivation to get better wheels on my FJ - no more Avons...
tim
My prefered local shop did not have anything in stock in the 120/70-17 size :dash2:
I'd ask what's the best tire, but, well..... (popcorn)
Quote from: racerman_27410 on August 08, 2012, 01:40:52 PM
that cannot happen.... the axle holds the wheel and forks square. the forks and wheel all go up and down together regardless of fork oil level
most all of the new bikes have only rebound damping in one fork leg and compression damping in the other fork leg.... if your scenario worked as you say then all the new bikes would be suffering the same weird tire wear.
the problem is the tire.
I disagree but you're absolutely right in principle. The problem is that the forks are a mite flexible, and with unknown mileage on the parts, a little wear could go a significant distance. Throw in the wrong tire pressure and a tendancy to cup? Heck, throw in a brake caliper that isn't working well on one side, while we're at it, and significant sideways force can show up. A wobbly, loose bearing should be pretty obviously wrong when ridden, but could allow the same play. It's like when you ride an older bike with a very worn front end and a single disc brake that wants to turn when you're braking hard.
In theory a fork shouldn't flex at all and should only allow movement within the plane it's designed for. I've owned a couple of forks that needed a fair bit of work to get nearer that point though!
Quote from: andyb on August 10, 2012, 05:25:47 PM
I disagree but you're absolutely right in principle. The problem is that the forks are a mite flexible, and with unknown mileage on the parts, a little wear could go a significant distance. Throw in the wrong tire pressure and a tendancy to cup? Heck, throw in a brake caliper that isn't working well on one side, while we're at it, and significant sideways force can show up. A wobbly, loose bearing should be pretty obviously wrong when ridden, but could allow the same play. It's like when you ride an older bike with a very worn front end and a single disc brake that wants to turn when you're braking hard.
In theory a fork shouldn't flex at all and should only allow movement within the plane it's designed for. I've owned a couple of forks that needed a fair bit of work to get nearer that point though!
I dont care if you disagree or not andy.... you would argue with a sign post..... as long as the axle is thru the wheel and the fork tubes are secure in the triples both fork legs and the wheel are going to move together. it aint principle.... its fact that the only way the wheel can move independantly of the forks is if the wheel bearings are completely disintegrated .... and i'm pretty sure the rider would know about that condition way before the tire wore out.
dragging brake caliper adding side load? LMAO what a load of Bullcrap..... if that was the case how come bikes with only one front brake rotor dont do this to their tires or put their rider on their ass everytime the front brake is applied?
heck you can put two different rate springs in the forks and they will still go up and down together.
rebound damping in one fork leg and compression damping in the other fork leg?.... they still go up and down together
sloppy bushings in the forks? ....they flop around together
pull some more shit out of your ass.... its always good for a laugh.
Kookaloo!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on August 10, 2012, 07:40:38 PM
I dont care if you disagree or not andy.... you would argue with a sign post..... as long as the axle is thru the wheel and the fork tubes are secure in the triples both fork legs and the wheel are going to move together. it aint principle.... its fact that the only way the wheel can move independantly of the forks is if the wheel bearings are completely disintegrated .... and i'm pretty sure the rider would know about that condition way before the tire wore out.
dragging brake caliper adding side load? LMAO what a load of Bullcrap..... if that was the case how come bikes with only one front brake rotor dont do this to their tires or put their rider on their ass everytime the front brake is applied?
heck you can put two different rate springs in the forks and they will still go up and down together.
rebound damping in one fork leg and compression damping in the other fork leg?.... they still go up and down together
sloppy bushings in the forks? ....they flop around together
pull some more shit out of your ass.... its always good for a laugh.
I frequently argue with signposts when they've got speed limit signs affixed to the top of them. :lol:
I've ridden (hell, it's in the garage) a bike that has a single front caliper and flexible, worn-out forks. Grab a quick fistful of brakes...what little braking power it has, anyhow... and you'll get a quick chirp from the front tire. Took forever to figure out what was happening, but if I stand up and watch the front tire there is a very noticable sideways twist of the wheel as the flimsy fork assembly twists and flexes. Should this happen? Obviously not, but the front assembly is the same age I am and the years haven't been kind to it. I don't know if it was like this when it was new, as I was busy learning to walk at the time, but it's certainly done it since I've owned it.
Things wear out and stop working in exactly the way they were designed to do. Occasionally a crap design gets through and they don't work the way they're supposed to even from new, but that's not hugely common thankfully. Who hasn't ridden a bike where the front wheel isn't exactly in line with the steering head, or is it just me? Or a bike that's been dropped and slightly tweaked the fork tubes? Tires aren't supposed to wear on one side, but we've got a good example of one that did posted above. While we're at it, they're not supposed to cup, either, but that certainly happens, right?
What I'm saying is that the tire is toast. Replacing it will put another round one on the front and solve the problem. In the next couple thousand miles it may or may not end up looking like this one if it wasn't the source of the problem, so taking the time to check and/or replace the fork seals, ensure that there's fresh fork oil of appropriate weight, and that the front end is working as well as it's designed will help prevent this from happening again. It's also routine maintenance that's probably due.
When my FJ had a tire like this, it was when I purchased it from the prior owner. Maybe he rode around in tight circles all day with no air in the tire, I don't know. What worked for me was to replace the tire, replace the fork seals, cleaned the dust seals (which were okay, just dirty), drain what little ex-oil was in the forks, and refill with new. Haven't seen the problem since. All of this was necessary, as the tire was done, the seals were shot, and the oil was disgusting. While I was doing it I cleaned and lubed the speedo drive, cleaned the calipers, checked the pads, checked the steering bearings, checked the forks for straightness, raised the forks 10mm, and changed to a heavier fork oil. It's possible that any one of these things could have helped with the tire wear; it's also possible that the tire was inherently bad and none of it was necessary, but judging by the state that everything else was in and the improvement in handling afterwards that all of these were good things. Had I just swapped tires and had the same thing happen in 1500 miles, I'd have been really annoyed with myself for halfassing things.
Quote from: andyb on August 11, 2012, 06:32:46 AM
I'd have been really annoyed with myself for halfassing things.
you should be really annoyed with yourself right now..... we are not talking about your old bike we are talking about a fella who has an issue with a tire on his FJ and you are posting up crap. I had a heavy as hell 1970 honda 750 with one disc brake and spindly forks and it never wore a tire like this.
maintenance is fine and i highly recommend it but it doesnt have crap to do with what we are talking about in this thread. He got a bum tire..... period.
Why dont you just move along to some other thread where you "might" be able to contribute something useful?
Its obvious you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to motorcycle suspension and how it works.
Kookaloo!
Frank
+1 on tyre out of round. Hope this helps?
Kurt
Alright fellas, let's keep things here sophisticated. We are all brothers.
No issues whatsoever so far with the new tire.
It may of been a bad tire from day one, it always did act strange.
Once again, when something goes bad slowly I can't tell how really bad it is until it's fixed - the new front tire has been amazing, like it always should of been.
This winter I think I'll do the forks and possibly the steering head bearings.
Thank you
I had the same problem with my last set of tires but it was right after I changed my front fork valves I found one of forks was longer than the other I got them back to the same and the tire started to wear better