Hi folks this thread has been generated following my recent purchase of xjr1200 3.5 inch front wheel. I have been looking for non abs fj compatible front rotors. I found a pair on eBay from an fz750 for £25!! :good2: The rotors are good, but the discs themselves are worn out. My abs disc has only done 4k light miles. So I figured I would put my disc on the fz750 rotor with the use of new rotor drive buttons (the type that use a circlip to secure the disc to the rotor). I know they exists as I have seen bikes with them on! But do you think I can find them now I want to buy them!! :dash2:
Anyone point me in the right direction have googled for the last 2 hours straight and I'm loosing the will to live a little! Would have preferred a uk based lead but at this stage I would order from Syria if I could find them!
Hang on a minute nurse, you're confusing me.
A rotor is an American term for the disc, as in disc brake, and a disc is, well, a disc, as in disc brake.
I'm using an XJR1200 wheel in a set of 3CV forks and the size of the discs (rotors) that i'm using is 298mm.
And you can use either FJ or XJR disc brake mounting bolts.
Quote from: FJ111200 on July 18, 2012, 12:11:03 PM
Hang on a minute nurse, you're confusing me.
A rotor is an American term for the disc, as in disc brake, and a disc is, well, a disc, as in disc brake.
I'm using an XJR1200 wheel in a set of 3CV forks and the size of the discs (rotors) that i'm using is 298mm.
And you can use either FJ or XJR disc brake mounting bolts.
I say tomarto you say tomayto!
Sorry I'm being unclear, the section that bolts to the hub is the rotor. The disc is the section that actually makes contact with the brake pads. The drive button is the round lug/rivet that holds the rotor to the disc. Unfortunately over time these terms have become interchangeable but are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I have always referred to them as two separate components. You are quite correct in what you say and hopefully your end result will also be mine. What I am trying to do is marry up my good disc (but not rotor as the abs configuration is different) with the good rotor from the fz (but not disc). The rotor is the bit that's often painted gold. Hope I'm making sense now! It's only 6pm so I can't even blame the booze for my lack of coherence. :wacko1:
Ah, i see, said the blind man, :pardon: the rotor on the ABS. Stupid me. :rofl2:
Nurse.
Your not only confusing me but also scaring me. The terminology this side of the pond would be the carrier and the disc. The buttons you refer to are used by Harrison Brakes in Kent. What are the odds that they would have sized them to fit an FJ disc to a FZ carrier? The stock Yamaha discs are riveted to the carrier and are ridged while the Harrison units are true full floaters.
I've used the Harrison rotors before and the full float units are short lived. There is an aluminum carrier mated to a steel disc by stainless buttons in a floating application. Not a recipe for longevity. There is a reason why the oem rotors are riveted and ridged.
If the FJ abs discs are identical to the FZ units and if the proper button rivets were available, which they are not, and if you had the proper tools to attach the two pieces together what you propose is possible.
It might be easier to just buy the proper rotor units. Hein.
I think I must be over complicating this with my explanation I am as a good as certain that the two components will marry up and that the buttons do exist as EBC used to do them. There are titanium sets on eBay but they are Chinese and they can't even describe them properly let alone give accurate spec details. I was hoping to find a more mainstream supplier. I could go the 'just buy new ones route' but I'm looking at around £150 per Side. Already having perfectly good discs if I could recycle them even into a full floating configuration with a short life span it will still be more cost effective than shelving my ones just to buy new non abs rotors.
Nurse,
When I got my PFM (a UK company) cast iron disks, they came with the "rotor buttons" you're describing. These were stainless rivets with a wave spring washer and circlip to hold it all together. This made the disk "semi-floating" since the disk did have the capability to move slightly on the buttons.
This was 10 or so years ago, and I don't have an address or contact for PFM, but you may be better able to track them than me.
Cheers,
Arnie
There are still buttons available to do what you like. There are a few suppliers of Ducati parts that have the buttons for 4mm and 5mm thick rotors. I can provide some links when I get home tonight. I know in fact that the buttons work on the stock Yamaha rotors/carriers/disks as replacements for the 'rivets' since I have been using them for 15+ years. :good2:
This issue you might run up against is that the the button mounting fingers (rotor/disk interface??) on the FZ750 and the interface on your ABS carrier (rotor for you) might not match up. If the brake assemblies from the FZ750 are identical to the 89-91 (non-ABS 298mm brakes) FJ units, they won't. I can snap a picture of those once home to show you what I mean.
I went through this a few years ago, thinking I could use the ABS brake outer rotors on my '91 carriers since I already have the buttons but found they did not match up after acquiring a set.
Greg
For the rotor and disk/carriers not lining up, here is what I mean. The brake assembly (bottom) was from a '92 ABS FJ and the outer rotor sans carrier (top) was from my '91 non-ABS FJ:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/480_19_07_12_4_54_35.jpeg)
And a close-up of the lack of alignment:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/480_19_07_12_4_52_41.jpeg)
The brake rotor buttons are available at a few places I found:
https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=brake%20rotor%20buttons&category_id=0&product_id=225 (https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=brake%20rotor%20buttons&category_id=0&product_id=225)
https://store.bevelheaven.com/brake-related-parts/button-kit-for-all-brembo-full-floating-rotors/ (https://store.bevelheaven.com/brake-related-parts/button-kit-for-all-brembo-full-floating-rotors/)
And, yes, the Brembo buttons work just fine. Did on my FJ, anyway.
http://motowheels.com/i-7579497-corse-dynamics-full-floating-rotor-button.html (http://motowheels.com/i-7579497-corse-dynamics-full-floating-rotor-button.html)
Well i stand corrected :blush: AustinFJ you have conclusivly (in the most aggrovation saving way) blown my plan clean out of the water!
Thank you soooooooo much for the help :i_am_so_happy: Although the main thought running through my mind is 'ahh f**k it i was sure that was gonna work' :mad:
I think Hein was hinting at the same thing earlier in this thread, so hats off to him to. :hi:
I guess this means finding a good value set of aftermarket ones! Any suggestions very welcome!
While we're on the subject, would one of you that has done this, please tell me how the hell you install these buttons? Unless I'm missing something, it sure seems that something has got to flex significantly -at least ~1/3 a button's worth. The most logical approach is rotating the rotor onto the disk carriers with the buttons in place, but then why does not heavy braking do the same thing in reverse?
I can't quite get my mind around how else it may be done, but clearly there is a way.
If I held them in my hands I could likely figure it out, but just seeing it, I really don't know.
If's it's not too much trouble, let me know, would you please?
Thanks,
Dan
Quote from: Dan Filetti on July 20, 2012, 04:55:11 AM
While we're on the subject, would one of you that has done this, please tell me how the hell you install these buttons? Unless I'm missing something, it sure seems that something has got to flex significantly -at least ~1/3 a button's worth. The most logical approach is rotating the rotor onto the disk carriers with the buttons in place, but then why does not heavy braking do the same thing in reverse?
I can't quite get my mind around how else it may be done, but clearly there is a way.
If I held them in my hands I could likely figure it out, but just seeing it, I really don't know.
If's it's not too much trouble, let me know, would you please?
Thanks,
Dan
You simply, but carefully grind off the original rivet which holds the OEM button in place then this should release the retaining washer and button should come out. The floating buttons have a groove to receive a circlip. This groove is normally set back far enough to mount the new button (with a wave washer) in the rearside to allow the small amount of flex on the disk. Follow some of the links and when u see them it makes more sense!
so does it work out cheaper to just replace the disc and buttons, than just paying $180 for a set of galfer rip offs , im guessing its hard to find the abs type of discs/ rotors/ shiney metal the pads grip on :lol: :good2:
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 20, 2012, 06:41:03 AM
so does it work out cheaper to just replace the disc and buttons, than just paying $180 for a set of galfer rip offs , im guessing its hard to find the abs type of discs/ rotors/ shiney metal the pads grip on :lol: :good2:
Well 20 buttons work out about £50 and a good quality set of discs (without rotors/carriers) are about £100 so if like me you have a disc with loads of meat/wear left in it then it is worth considering , but if you throw being an ABS set of discs into the equation, then not so much :dash2:. I acknowledge the general consensus is that full floating set ups wear quicker, therefore in the long term it will cost you more, so this will only work out as an option if you have non abs brakes/carriers to use in the first instance.
Back to looking for new or very good second hand i guess!! The wavy chienese versions look ok, but i always worry that you only get what you pay for and given that both discs are the same as you would pay for one 'name brand' equivalent, i am a little sceptical. The specs list the OD as 300mm, anyone tried them with blue dots?? Any clearance issues seeing as ours are 298mm.
Quote from: nurse on July 20, 2012, 05:35:44 AM
You simply, but carefully grind off the original rivet which holds the OEM button in place then this should release the retaining washer and button should come out. The floating buttons have a groove to receive a circlip. This groove is normally set back far enough to mount the new button (with a wave washer) in the rearside to allow the small amount of flex on the disk. Follow some of the links and when u see them it makes more sense!
Ah, Bach! Two primary pieces, makes perfect sense.
Thanks!
Dan
Will the Chinese rotors fit? Yes, this subject has been covered many times by many people. As far as the quality of the rotors based on the price is concerned consider the difference between a Chinese brake vendor and a "name brand" vendor.
Huan Hung Lo brake sales in Hong Kong.
R&D and engineering costs. Not much, buy a Galfer rotor and copy it. Call it reverse engineering for a more positive spin.
Labour costs, much cheaper.
Infrastructure costs. Other than the manufacturing vacility there is not much else. No distribution or dealer network, no sales or service reps, no advertising or promtion costs. A computer with a language translation function and an E-bay account is about it.
Liability insurance, not even in your wildest dreams. This particular cost has driven numerous USA manufacturing companies out of business.
I can't state for a fact that the knock off version is as good as the original but I do know that it is possible to make a very good "copy" for half the price.
Hein.
Hein. Fair point - well made!
Quote from: hein on July 20, 2012, 01:37:23 PM
Will the Chinese rotors fit? Yes, this subject has been covered many times by many people. As far as the quality of the rotors based on the price is concerned consider the difference between a Chinese brake vendor and a "name brand" vendor.
Huan Hung Lo brake sales in Hong Kong.
R&D and engineering costs. Not much, buy a Galfer rotor and copy it. Call it reverse engineering for a more positive spin.
Labour costs, much cheaper.
Infrastructure costs. Other than the manufacturing vacility there is not much else. No distribution or dealer network, no sales or service reps, no advertising or promtion costs. A computer with a language translation function and an E-bay account is about it.
Liability insurance, not even in your wildest dreams. This particular cost has driven numerous USA manufacturing companies out of business.
I can't state for a fact that the knock off version is as good as the original but I do know that it is possible to make a very good "copy" for half the price.
Hein.
Is this general opinion/discussion you are sharing, or are you referring to specific, personal experience? Have you had experience of them in actual use?
Nurse.
Question one. Both.
Question two. Yes.
Questions you haven't asked but probably will.
1 Yes they were dimensionally accurate.
2 Yes the fit and finish is quite good.
3 Yes they work quite well. However,this is somewhat subjective.
At the end of the day only you can decide which rotors you should purchase.
Hein.
Well given these considerations and that the best set of good condition used OEM disks are questionable in condition and quality at best and rediculously expensive, I feel a set of wavy Chinese rotors coming on!
set of chinese waves on ebay atm $168.00 free postage :good2:
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 24, 2012, 04:53:15 PM
set of chinese waves on ebay atm $168.00 free postage :good2:
Is that us or oz dollars? Uk price seems to be about £120-£125
What is the item number for the one you found?