hi all, will be fitting uni pods to an 88 fj1200 , has 4/1 exhaust system ,, what would be the better kit to go with, dj, or factory pro, easiest to tune/ live with ,, or one of the :lol: cheaper , we make the kit up :lol: for your bike :lol: ,,
ONLY mikuni parts for correct sizing. Get a hold of RPM Randy he will get you what you need, you count your time probaly cheaper too.
Bob W
thanks mate, i should of just gone straight to the rpm site, but i always find stuff i want :wacko3: :good2:
If you go with a jet kit Factory Pro works great.
Kurt
excellent, thanks kurt, theyre cheaper than dj too :good2:
cheers
rod
Factory Pro, they use Mikuni jets.... :drinks:
thanks rich, we have a winner two for two, factory pro gets his money :flag_of_truce: :good2:,, ill spend my cousins cash for him
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 10, 2012, 09:35:07 AM
...factory pro gets his money
Why, please tell me; WHY?????
I cannot for the life of me understand why there is the constant need for a "carb kit". I say this because I have tried them all FP, DJ, R/L, HSR being the most "popular" kits. I can tell you they do not do anything different than the O.E. parts adjusted properly. I have drilled slides, epoxied slide holes and made them smaller, needles from other carbs with similar profiles, you name I have probably done it. When people bring or send me race car carbs and a "kit" is installed, they get it back in a bag. They get the O.E. parts reinstalled and 99% of the time they tell me the car runs better and is faster than before I worked on the carbs.
:scratch_one-s_head: Hmmm, it runs better & faster than before I work on them...how can that be, they don't have a "kit" anymore...
Sure, everyone one of those kits will make your bike run better than
stock, because it puts the A/F mixture ratio into the engines sweet spot. Yes, some of them have different needles to change the fuel curve slightly, but unless you are out racing you do not need that change in the fuel delivery curve.
So, eight jets at a cost of less than $30.00, some washers to shim the needles and you have built your own carb kit. You did not have to drill/modify or ruin any parts. You can tune with stock size Mikuni jets just as well as anyone of the "kits" jets, they all perform the same function of metering fuel & air delivery.
Sure, many people on this forum have had a positive result using the "XYZ kit", but they would have obtained the same results with the "ABC kit" as well because they all do the same thing, adjust the A/F ratio to better suit the engine. But they could have done the same thing buying the jets individually and saving money along the way.
Come on guys, it is all advertising... :dash1:
Randy - RPM
Randy, I understand what you are saying and I agree, however, on face value....
The Factory Pro (FP) kit comes with Mikuni components, 4 Mikuni pilots, 4 mains and 4 adjustable needles retails for ~$140
However, there is a discount off the Factory Pro retail price: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1350.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1350.0)
Your individual prices comes out to about $20 more that the FP retail price, and about $50 more than the FP discount price.
The big price difference is the cost of the adjustable needles. So do you really need adjustable needles? That's the question.
What you and DavidR have been saying (for years) and and what I have learned is, no, shims are just fine.
In addition, the Factory Pro kit seems to tune the bike on the rich side.
Quote
Why, please tell me; WHY?????
I cannot for the life of me understand why there is the constant need for a "carb kit". I say this because I have tried them all FP, DJ, R/L, HSR being the most "popular" kits. I can tell you they do not do anything different than the O.E. parts adjusted properly. I have drilled slides, epoxied slide holes and made them smaller, needles from other carbs with similar profiles, you name I have probably done it. When people bring or send me race car carbs and a "kit" is installed, they get it back in a bag. They get the O.E. parts reinstalled and 99% of the time they tell me the car runs better and is faster than before I worked on the carbs.
:scratch_one-s_head: Hmmm, it runs better & faster than before I work on them...how can that be, they don't have a "kit" anymore...
Sure, everyone one of those kits will make your bike run better than stock, because it puts the A/F mixture ratio into the engines sweet spot. Yes, some of them have different needles to change the fuel curve slightly, but unless you are out racing you do not need that change in the fuel delivery curve.
So, eight jets at a cost of less than $30.00, some washers to shim the needles and you have built your own carb kit. You did not have to drill/modify or ruin any parts. You can tune with stock size Mikuni jets just as well as anyone of the "kits" jets, they all perform the same function of metering fuel & air delivery.
Sure, many people on this forum have had a positive result using the "XYZ kit", but they would have obtained the same results with the "ABC kit" as well because they all do the same thing, adjust the A/F ratio to better suit the engine. But they could have done the same thing buying the jets individually and saving money along the way.
Come on guys, it is all advertising... :dash1:
Randy - RPM
AMEN, BROTHER!
PREACH!! :good2:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 10, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Randy, I understand what you are saying and I agree, however, on face value....
The big price difference is the cost of the adjustable needles. So do you really need adjustable needles? That's the question.
What you and DavidR have been saying (for years) and and what I have learned is, no, shims are just fine.
Well, since we are going on face value, why do the aftermarket "kit" manufactures choose to use other metals than aluminum or brass? I do not know the answer, but I bet you is is because it is more difficult & costly to machine aluminum since it is softer than steel & titanium. So, sure the "aftermarket" needles are going to be cheaper; the are cheaper to make...but they wear out your other parts faster.
So, is it really cheaper...
Let examine...
Why does FP have nickle plated tubes, because metal & titanium wear the brass emulsion tube at a much more significant rate. So they make a plated one to combat the wear on the tube, but the nickle is harder than the metal so the needles have to replaced more often; thus titanium. Also, if you use aluminum needles on the nickle e-tubes, you will see wear in less than a month as they just eat the aluminum needle
Aftermarket, reconfigured needles are not needed for any FJ street bike, so at face value under $30.00 compared to "discounted" price of $97.46 is still as savings. Is there really a savings when you install a different needle made from a different material which causes more wear over a shorter time on the other parts...Nope, it is going to cost you more money.
I know at both rallies I attended last month, several of the guys riding at the front are running carbs, that I built using stock parts, and not a single one of them complained about the performance, economy or price for that matter. There were several guys who inquired about rebuilding their carbs based on the recommendation of those who are using stock parts and enjoying the ride, for miles & miles & miles.
They question is still out there...Why???
Performance, price, convenience...Why???
Performance is not an issue with the proper O.E. parts.
Price is definitely cheaper with O.E. parts design by the carb manufacture, not an aftermarket company as the parts last longer.
Convenience because the "kit" is a kit?
Well, if price & convenience are the driving factors, the complete carb rebuild kits I sell are the answer then. They have the adjustable needles, made for the same brass material as the e-tubes, e-tubes, float bowl gasket, N&S, bowl drain screw, pilot screw set, as well as all of the stock jets. There is not an aftermarket kit that offers you all of those part for that price.
Sure, you are still going to have to spend the money to buy the corrected jets, but again the most you will spent there is under $30.00.
I have those adjustable needles made from the same brass as the e-tubes to make a product that will not wear out as fast as the O.E. parts. And after 3 years in my bike, I cannot see any signs of wear, compared to the aluminum needle in the carb next to it.
I would like to hear...Why???
Randy - RPM
I have a complete Factory Pro kit I'd like to sell ... Say $60 + shipping.
Fellows,
I have to concur with the gentleman from RPM.
Following his advice re: carb settings & jetting has allowed me to put on thousands of [sometime hard] miles without any fueling/carb problems at all.
As have others, I also researched the aftermarket brands, but I am more than satisfied I did not use them.
Mike Ramos.
For all that RPM Randy does and contributes to and for this group, you "Place any name here" be grudge a guy to make $20 after he probally told you how to do the job to begin with. :shok:
Most on this list would be screwed, if not for a "very" few people on this list that will share their expertise. Thanks to all of them, from me Snarky :sarcastic:. :drinks: And we would all be screwed W/O Marsh. :yes:
Bob W
^ Yep, I agree. 'Ole Snarky hit the nail on the head....
Randy you probably know more about jetting than anybody else here but, for the rest of us buying a jet kit is a great short cut. This may not be the best answer but it is better than burning up the bike way to lean. Randy your parts are the work of a craftsman not a bean counter. The thought and effort you put in to things are obvious. We are trying to buy your knowledge and expertise in a box this is best we can do. In time as we learn with your teaching we will learn and can grow beyond the what is in the little box is best mentality. THANK YOU RANDY!!!!!!
Kurt
i agree randy is the guy to buy from for pretty much everything fj, , the owner wants to buy a "kit" thats his choice , seems determained :scratch_one-s_head: , , on a+ the needle jets down here are factory adjustable ones, no need for shimming (popcorn)
Quote from: Mike Ramos on July 10, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
Fellows,
I have to concur with the gentleman from RPM.
Mike Ramos.
I P.M. 'd Randy a coupla months ago & he gave me advice on my carb set up. Bigger pilots, bigger mains & a trip to Sears hardware for some shims. $37.47 from Randy, $.22 from Sears & a carb sync (free with a loaned tool). Hell, I tried to buy adjustable needles from the guy & he practically told me I was wasting my money.
Thats my $.02 & it still puts me under 40 bucks :biggrin:
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 10, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
i agree randy is the guy to buy from for pretty much everything fj, , , on a+ the needle jets down here are factory adjustable ones, no need for shimming
Not quite. Even the adjustable needles with 5 grooves 1mm (0.040") apart can be fine tuned with the 1/2mm (0.020") shims/washers which come with the carbs.
Arnie
very true arnie, they sure could be, how much difference would half a mm make to function/ performance
Just enough :-) Its the difference between close and right.
Arnie
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 11, 2012, 09:51:33 PM
very true arnie, they sure could be, how much difference would half a mm make to function/ performance
Quote from: simi_ed on July 10, 2012, 01:49:20 PM
I have a complete Factory Pro kit I'd like to sell ... Say $60 + shipping.
Kit is sold ...
Quote from: Arnie on July 13, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Just enough :-) Its the difference between close and right.
Arnie
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 11, 2012, 09:51:33 PMthen that could be worth a try,, thanks mate
very true arnie, they sure could be, how much difference would half a mm make to function/ performance
close riggs, close is a lingere shop with no front window :lol:
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 10, 2012, 11:32:51 AM
Quote from: fj11.5 on July 10, 2012, 09:35:07 AM
...factory pro gets his money
Why, please tell me; WHY?????
I cannot for the life of me understand why there is the constant need for a "carb kit". I say this because I have tried them all FP, DJ, R/L, HSR being the most "popular" kits. I can tell you they do not do anything different than the O.E. parts adjusted properly. I have drilled slides, epoxied slide holes and made them smaller, needles from other carb's with similar profiles, you name I have probably done it. When people bring or send me race car carb's and a "kit" is installed, they get it back in a bag. They get the O.E. parts reinstalled and 99% of the time they tell me the car runs better and is faster than before I worked on the carb's.
:scratch_one-s_head: Hmmm, it runs better & faster than before I work on them...how can that be, they don't have a "kit" anymore...
Sure, everyone one of those kits will make your bike run better than stock, because it puts the A/F mixture ratio into the engines sweet spot. Yes, some of them have different needles to change the fuel curve slightly, but unless you are out racing you do not need that change in the fuel delivery curve.
So, eight jets at a cost of less than $30.00, some washers to shim the needles and you have built your own carb kit. You did not have to drill/modify or ruin any parts. You can tune with stock size Mikuni jets just as well as anyone of the "kits" jets, they all perform the same function of metering fuel & air delivery.
Sure, many people on this forum have had a positive result using the "XYZ kit", but they would have obtained the same results with the "ABC kit" as well because they all do the same thing, adjust the A/F ratio to better suit the engine. But they could have done the same thing buying the jets individually and saving money along the way.
Come on guys, it is all advertising... :dash1:
Randy - RPM
I strongly agree. When I bought my FJ it "smoked on start up" and had what I might call a slight low rpm miss. Not knowing what the P.O. had done in the way of maintenance and feeling that factory spec's are usually the best I adjusted the valves clearances to spec's. balanced the carb's etc. It still smoked (gray smoke) and ran slightly rough. I could swear that it needed valve guide seals. Then I purchased a
complete rebuild kit for the carb's and put things back into factory spec's (I believe my carb's had a DJ needle and diaphragm springs installed) as for drilled holes I didn't pay to much attention to size or extra holes. I retained the diaphragm springs because I did not have a stock set on hand. Put everything back as per "RPM's" rebuild parts, installed, synced the carb's and guess what..... No smoke on start up, runs great, and I believe it is running cooler.
I would suggest that if an FJ is "smoking at start" up and running a bit rough to completely refurbish the carb's before you pull the head and get into that area. Just my experience. In the rebuild process replace the o rings between the intake manifolds and engine they are cheap and easy to do. My carb's didn't look to dirty but I replaced all the jets, emulsion tubes, needles etc. along with the cleaning (4 large can's of B 12 and air). After you are done be sure to make sure the diaphragm's are working like they should. It might surprise you that one or more isn't working properly. Even with no holes in them. It is hard to get a good seal I think due to the age of old diaphragm's and I found that the caps get slightly bent/warped at the corners. You can Place them on a sheet of 400 wet or dry and lap them on a flat surface to check them out (while you are at it lap the top carb surface also).
Sorry for the long post..... Stock configuration works for most.
My FJ stock was so lean that there was concern it could damage the engine. Stock needles were non adjustable. Installing a factory jet kit helped so much, probably saved my engine. Everybody talks about there jetting problems and how they fixed them with Randy's help but what would you with out Randy's help? I am very glad we have his expertise he is a great asset!!!! but they are a better answer than no answer. Randy knows more about jetting these engines than anybody his parts are clearly the best but don't slam the jet kits still better than stock in my experience. :flag_of_truce:
Kurt
Stock needles ARE adjustable, by putting shimming washers under the clip. They lack multiple clip positions, but that doesn't mean adjustments cannot be made. So having an OEM set of parts isn't your biggest problem there.
andyb true, but when I installed the jet kit this information was unavailable. Washer to shim the needles were unheard of. I know from the dyno and exhaust analyzer it helped hp and ride ability. I can't imagine what the bike would have been like at sea level since I am at 4000+ feet.
Kurt
If you bother to search back through the FILES section and other literature, you'll find that we've been discussing carb settings (including shimming the stock needles) for more than 10 years.
The carb cleaning instructions were written at least 10 years ago and we discussed detailed carb theory back on the Yahoo Group. Much (if not all) of that material was brought forward to this site. There's a ton of info about carbs that you've evidently not seen.
Such information may not have been available to you, but it has been on here forever.
And if you're at 4000+ feet, there's no way your stock equipment was lean enough to come close to causing damage (unless something was clogged up). At 500 ft and 100+ temperatures in the summer, my FJ would have been a melted lump of metal years ago when the instructions in my original DJ kit told me NOT to re-install the stock plastic spacer. I ran the needles at least 3 "grooves" leaner than stock for several years before figuring out the spacer was supposed to be installed. Granted, the 144 pilot jets probably helped. But for years, my plugs came out whiter than the day they were installed.
Yamaha couldn't (wouldn't) take the chance of jetting engines so lean that it would ruin them.
DavidR.
Might mention that the kit/parts or "bits" for those in other lands, I got from Randy have adjustable needles. I am at 2850' and for now they are set in the middle groove. The main jets are 112.5. Thanks to "RPM" for supplying the parts and super fast service.
Randy (rpm) is great, and is very generous with his time and expertise re carb settings amongst many other things.
However, there are several others on this list that have been helping newbies (and oldies as well) with getting their bikes running well. David Raforth was and remains the "Carb Guru", and its his screw and O-ring set that Randy now sells. I believe the instructions for dis- and re- (assembly) are the same that David wrote and has been providing for a decade+.
Pat Conlon, AndyB, and several others have also been quick off the mark to assist those with problems.
So, lets not forget that we are a collection of souls with a focus on FJ's sharing our knowledge and experience for the common benefit. (Yeah, I know that sounds almost like a def of "collective", but I didn't want to set the commie haters off)
:-)
Quote from: Arnie on July 14, 2012, 10:07:17 PM
I didn't want to set the commie haters off)
:-)
I resemble that remark :shout:
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on July 14, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
If you bother to search back through the FILES section and other literature, you'll find that we've been discussing carb settings (including shimming the stock needles) for more than 10 years.
The carb cleaning instructions were written at least 10 years ago and we discussed detailed carb theory back on the Yahoo Group. Much (if not all) of that material was brought forward to this site. There's a ton of info about carbs that you've evidently not seen.
Such information may not have been available to you, but it has been on here forever.
And if you're at 4000+ feet, there's no way your stock equipment was lean enough to come close to causing damage (unless something was clogged up). At 500 ft and 100+ temperatures in the summer, my FJ would have been a melted lump of metal years ago when the instructions in my original DJ kit told me NOT to re-install the stock plastic spacer. I ran the needles at least 3 "grooves" leaner than stock for several years before figuring out the spacer was supposed to be installed. Granted, the 144 pilot jets probably helped. But for years, my plugs came out whiter than the day they were installed.
Yamaha couldn't (wouldn't) take the chance of jetting engines so lean that it would ruin them.
DavidR.
I looked up yahoo groups yamaha fj found five it said the oldest was started twelve years ago. I installed jet kit in the summer of 1995 (17 years ago). David I am glad that your FJ was not as lean as mine, but this was my experience. DavidR I once posted "I hope I never get on your bad side" and hope I am not now. :flag_of_truce:
Kurt
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on July 14, 2012, 05:17:30 PMGranted, the 144 pilot jets probably helped.
Those are big, big pilot jets. 40's you meant?
Sorry, 144 AIR pilot jets.
DavidR.
Hey Kurt,
No problem, that came out a little more "whiney" than it was intended. No offense intended or taken.
Wouldn't have helped you in '95, but there is a lot of information on carbs here that others (everyone) should take advantage of.
DavidR.
"DavidR I once posted 'I hope I never get on your bad side' and hope I am not now.'
Kurt
Better to be pissed off, than pissed on. Right Dave?
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on July 15, 2012, 10:06:41 AM
Hey Kurt,
No problem, that came out a little more "whiney" than it was intended. No offense intended or taken.
Wouldn't have helped you in '95, but there is a lot of information on carbs here that others (everyone) should take advantage of.
DavidR.
DavidR I could not agree more. :yahoo:
Kurt