I am a new owner of a 1990 fj, I am vary impressed with it overall. I have a problem with the idle hanging. I can use the clutch to pull down the rpm's at a stop and it will idle ok but the motor dose'nt drop between shifts as it should. I cleaned the carb's and it was somewhat better,but still hanging. I disconnected the power boost vacuum advance unit and pluged the line ,the hanging idle was gone but a slight reduction of performance was noted. Should I replace the advance unit or is there a better fix?
just my 2 cents but is throttle sticking open a little i had that problem and i was just a little adjustment and it was fixed
I checked it, cables are good with no binding
Using the motor to pull down the rpm's would eliminate that possibility.A stuck throttle is A stuck throttle. Thank's
Air leak on your intake side, spray WD-40 (Or is that carb cleaner?) around the carbs and intake boots during idle. If the idle changes, you have a leak.
I also tried that, no leaks found. I just bought a good used sensor on Ebay $30, I will post how it worked out Thank You.
how high is the rpms at idle
Could one or two plugged pilots be a possible cause? My guess would be a lean condition also.
Make sure that you have no cracks in the hose going to the unit especially where the hose plugs to the #2 intake. I have had that problem a couple of times.
I was not aware that the 1990 FJ's used a vacuum advance. I thought they were a DCI ignition.
My' 92 has a vacuum hose coming off the #2 carb manifold which runs up to the front under the fairing for the reserve petcock functions.
My' 92 has a vacuum hose coming off the #2 carb manifold which runs up to the front under the fairing for the reserve petcock functions.
:shok: :scratch_one-s_head:
You may want to check that out, it would be the only one.
Bob W
So Bob, the 90's have vacuum advance? What would the vacuum hose on my '92 do?
The digital box alters the timing, but it uses sensors to determine the adjustments needed, (e.g. pick up coil and pressure switch.)
Think you guys may be barking up the wrong tree. I'm guessing a synch would fix it.
Quote from: andyb on May 25, 2012, 06:35:07 PM
I'm guessing a synch would fix it.
I think so too
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 25, 2012, 01:29:32 PM
I was not aware that the 1990 FJ's used a vacuum advance. I thought they were a DCI ignition.
It could be that a previous owner converted the 1990 bike to run on 1100 or 1TX 1200 electrics.
That's what i did on my 1989 3CV and have continued with the application on my XJR1200's.
Just a thought.
Quote from: Travis398 on May 25, 2012, 06:09:56 PM
The digital box alters the timing, but it uses sensors to determine the adjustments needed, (e.g. pick up coil and pressure switch.)
Hey Travis, help me out...Bob W seems disinclined to respond, yet he is very good at snarky comments.
Below are 2 timing tables. The top is for the early FJ's and shows 2 different curves based on vacuum, and the bottom table is for the late model '91+ DCI ignitions. The 2 dashed line different curves in the bottom table are for the different detuned FJs sold in the JDM and Swiss markets. The solid line curve is the full power FJ sold in the US, Uk, etc, markets.
What I see in looking at this bottom table for the '91+ FJ's is only 1 timing curve based on engine rpm.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6091/6211979845_6c122df3e3_z.jpg)
So, my question remains: On my '92 how is my DCI ignition altered and where is the alternate timing curve shown on this table?
And if it indeed has only 1 advance curve programmed into the DCI, what is the vacuum line coming off my #2 manifold used for?
I do agree with Andy that proper carb syncing will probably cure the OP's issues. Thanks amigo!
Pat,
I see 3 curves on that second plot. The hose should be going to something called the Boost (vacuum) Sensor. I always assumed it changed the timing, but I have no proof. What else would it be used for?
I also "assumed" Yamaha went to a separate "vacuum" sensor for the ignition system so that when it went bad you could just replace the (relatively inexpensive) sensor instead of the whole ignition box.
I may be giving them too much credit, though. :-)
DavidR.
David, as I understand it, without having the footnotes, the top solid line is the full power DCI's, the second dashed line is the JDM and the third dash-dot line is the Swiss version which was detuned the worst.
Our Scot friend Stuart posted this info:
Quote from: mz_rider on October 04, 2011, 04:41:46 PM
Here are the ignition advance curves from my factory manual for Euro markets. The top is for the early FJ1200. The lower is '91+ models. The solid line is the full power model we got in the UK. The middle line is slightly retarded possibly to meet 100bhp limit in some countries. The lower line is for Switzerland who had severe power restrictions.
I *think* I remember reading somewhere on this forum about the '92's vacuum line going to a pressure switch and having something to do with the DCI controlling the fuel pump functions and the reserve switch.... I'm sure Bob knows...
[edit] The 92's wiring diagram does show 3 wires going from the "pressure sensor" into the DCI ignitor unit.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on May 26, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
The hose should be going to something called the Boost (vacuum) Sensor.
DavidR.
The Boost sensor or boost pressure unit or other thing, is something that was used on the XJ1100 and XJ650 Turbo only.
This was just prior to the FJ1100 being introduced, which they, Yamaha, then incorporated into the TCI or black box whatever you want to call it. I know 'cos i'm experimenting with the XJ1100 system on one of my XS1100's.
ohh we're posting graphs now eh? I am not sure what that was supposed to prove, but they are different grafts comparing different things on different bikes.
I would guess comparing ignition curves of bikes from different countries assumes your not going to ride your bike with the booster disconnected.
Do tell...........how does this reserve switch booster work?
Quote from: Travis398 on May 26, 2012, 04:53:33 PM
ohh we're posting graphs now eh? I am not sure what that was supposed to prove, but they are different grafts comparing different things on different bikes.
Easy, the point of the ignition timing graphs was to show that only one advance curve was shown on '91's not two like the vacuum bikes show.
Quote from: Travis398 on May 26, 2012, 04:53:33 PM
I would guess comparing ignition curves of bikes from different countries assumes your not going to ride your bike with the booster disconnected.
No, I wouldn't do that....Tell me, where does this word "booster" come from? You assume the '91+ vacuum pressure switches are some kind of booster? I know the term booster is used on the vacuum ignitions but I'm not aware this term is used on the '91's... Is it in the shop manual?
Quote from: Travis398 on May 26, 2012, 04:53:33 PM
Do tell...........how does this reserve switch booster work?
There is that word again...Travis, I don't mean to irritate you, that's why I asked the question..... So, I assume your answer is....
On the '91+'s the vacuum hose off the #2 manifold goes to a "booster" switch which alters the advance curve on the DCI ignition....?
Travis, here is a detailed timing graph for the 1100's which have a vacuum (boost) advance...see the 2 different lines?
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/craigo987/FJ11001984ServiceManual269-1.jpg)
Snarky huh. :rofl:
I don't know how exactly the cdi box works, as it's sealed and I can't fix it if I did know how. But I do know that my race car has that very ignition system on it. But the race car DOES NOT HAVE RESERVE so what does it do there. :lol: You want f-ing snarky I'll give ya snarky.
Bob F-ing snarky W
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 26, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
Tell me, where does this word "booster" come from?
Pat I'm sorry I use the word boost loosely. If you check my original post I believe I gave the technical name.
I just use the word Boost because it is in the thread title. "Power boost vacuum advance unit"
Although that may not be the official name of the part, I still know the part he is asking about.
No worries Travis, thanks Bob, I stand corrected. Just because I can't find a second advance curve on the '91's table does not mean that a second advance curve does not exist.
I put a aftermarket DCI unit on my '84 and it has no provisions for vacuum, so only one advance curve is used. I was thinking the same existed on the late DCI's but a vacuum switch wired into the DCI would do the same thing and as David points out, when the switch fails you don't have to replace the entire DCI module.
As much love as I have for the FJ, and I really do have a soft spot in my heart for it, I really like the fact that, fuel injected bikes can be fitted with a sophisticated power commander.
I decided I wanted to smooth out a slightly rough idle in the Gixxer the other day. All I had to do was plug my bike into my laptop, and adjust the fueling at 1000 RPM with 0% throttle to a value of '-15', hit upload, and it was fixed. Within a second of hitting upload, the bike responds the new programming and runs differently -better in this case. Making such changes to a carbureted bike takes much longer. It is really rewarding to do it all in 10 mins and make the bike run better with the push of a button.
The version of the PC I have is actually made by PC for Yoshimura and has a few extra whistles and bells. It allows for three different maps to be loaded into it, and if I had the handle bar switch, (which I don't) I could switch between them at will. I have toyed with the idea of buying the switch and creating a 'rain map' and possible a 'fuel economy map'...
Also, it allows me to adjust timing values for specific throttle position and engine RPM. Pretty cool.
I know this is off topic, sorry for the hijack, but I wanted to pass this on...
Dan
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 26, 2012, 02:02:25 PM
[edit] The 92's wiring diagram does show 3 wires going from the "pressure sensor" into the DCI ignitor unit.
Pat It's not really a fair debate if one of us has the power to go back and change previous posts.
We all know changing just a word or two can change the meaning of a post, and change the context of each following post.
I'm not saying that happened in this case but it would be nice if you would leave the original post and reply to it with your updated info.
Then everyone can read and understand both the before and after.
Putting that advance tube in the ignition box is a bad design, it can corrode, get bent or even break off.
Looking inside the box I would say you would have a hard time fixing this if it did happen.
In 88 when they moved this pressure switch external (for whatever reason) it used 3 wires. One was the +12volt DC from the key switch and the other 2 are the send/return from the ignition box. I would have guessed they are all like that But if your 92 is not like this than it would be possible that something is different on the 92.
I don't own a 92 so I can't confirm or deny this.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on May 27, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
I know this is off topic, sorry for the hijack, but I wanted to pass this on...
Dan
Dan this whole thread is a hijack so we all should be apologizing
A couple of points:
1) If I wanted to hide it from you Travis, I would have not identified the new info. with [edit]
2) The new info. did not change the course of the discussion, if anything it supported what you were saying.
3) My edit was done at 2:26 and your next post was not until almost a hour and a half later, at 3:53.
Yet, you wanted me to do a new post with this late info? Geeeze.
You saw my edit before you posted, if not too bad...
hey pat, just wondering what ignition unit your using, and if it changed the way your Fj runs, , asking as I'm using a unit made in new Zealand , , easier starting it seems, and has a very smooth power delivery , dousnt have the turbo like kick from 7000 rpm like a standard unit but pullls better right through the rev range from idle to 8500
Same here, I'm using ERD's HyperPack (New Zealand) on my '84 and it's plug and play simple. So far, it's much better than my old TCI unit.
Starts quickly and rev's smoothly, the Hyperpack uses the stock full advance ignition curve, yet it has a longer spark duration than the oem vacuum unit. I have a 5* advanced rotor I'm also using with the Pack. So far...so good.
http://www.erd.co.nz/products/xjfj.html (http://www.erd.co.nz/products/xjfj.html)
thanks mate, I couldn't remember what it was called , but that's the one , much better than standard, and no vacuum function to fail
I have been riding it this past weekend with the hose to the unit plugged,no high idle issues. a slight loss in performance is the only side affect. The replacment vacume advance should be here early this week. I will give an update after it is installed.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 27, 2012, 01:39:38 PM
A couple of points:
1) If I wanted to hide it from you Travis, I would have not identified the new info. with [edit]
2) The new info. did not change the course of the discussion, if anything it supported what you were saying.
3) My edit was done at 2:26 and your next post was not until almost a hour and a half later, at 3:53.
Yet, you wanted me to do a new post with this late info? Geeeze.
You saw my edit before you posted, if not too bad...
Perhaps one day you can be a moderator when you grow up.
1) actually the time stamp on your post busted you, so you putting [edit] in there didn't explain shit.
2) I never said it changed the course of the discussion, that really wasn't the point. The point is if your
going to post in threads than play by the same rules everyone else is.
3) I don't care if it's an hour and a half later or a day and a half later, posting bullshit and than going back to clean it up is wrong.
Show respect to the other members by playing by the same rules. If it is in fact as harmless and justified
as you make it sound than we all should be able to do it.
and who the hell said I need your help to make my point?
Finally, if growing up means.............. being a dumb fuck moderator that spews bullshit from the mouth, than I wouldn't plan on that happening anytime soon.
Could someone explain what "FJ1200B" in the upper right corner means?
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/Travis398/graph.png)
possibly a year model, as the early elevens were L / LC
Quote from: fj11.5 on May 28, 2012, 07:04:01 AM
possibly a year model, as the early elevens were L / LC
ohhh I thought it stood for BULLSHIT, as in that would be the bike to own if you were full of it.
Quote from: fj11.5 on May 28, 2012, 07:04:01 AM
possibly a year model, as the early elevens were L / LC
Exactly right. The "B" bikes are the '91 model year bikes with the pink stripe (and the first year they did the dusky beige color. The "BC" bikes were the California versions of the same year.
Arnie
Glad I'm not the only one this happens to...
(popcorn)
Quote from: Arnie on May 28, 2012, 08:55:40 AM
and the first year they did the dusky beige color.
Arnie
I think that would be called the theft deterrent Silver and White...
There is no shortage of alfa males in this pack! :sarcastic:
thanks for the confirmation arnie :good2:,, ,,,, bull chips perhaps travis,, not too sure about the bullshit :rofl2:
Quote from: Travis398 on May 28, 2012, 08:26:17 AM
Quote from: fj11.5 on May 28, 2012, 07:04:01 AM
possibly a year model, as the early elevens were L / LC
ohhh I thought it stood for BULLSHIT, as in that would be the bike to own if you were full of it.
I think he meant to say bullcrap, it's more P C that way. :shok:
Bob W
Quote from: Travis398 on May 28, 2012, 06:17:02 AM
Could someone explain what "FJ1200B" in the upper right corner means?
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/Travis398/graph.png)
Quote from: Travis398 on May 26, 2012, 04:53:33 PM
ohh we're posting graphs now eh?
Quote from: Travis398 on May 28, 2012, 08:26:17 AM
ohhh I thought it stood for BULLSHIT, as in that would be the bike to own if you were full of it.
Actually, I have a 1992 FJ1200D not B..
Travis, you didn't seem to mind my editing powers when you needed them.... Don't bother to ask me the next time.
Quote from: Travis398 on July 21, 2011, 05:30:02 PM
Hi Pat,
I have a favor to ask. Could you delete one of my posts?
It is starting to bug me a little.
I have a post that was supposed to be funny but didn't really come out that way.
Anyways the guys I know/ hang out with know I'm a joker but I am worried others might not get it, especially with my lack of writing skills.
Fuckin' A, the sexual tension in here is unbearable. Just get drunk and bang each other already. :bad:
Damn 1100 owners, always gotta be right. It's that 5 horsepower thing I think.
:rofl2: (popcorn)
I'm curious to see what happened with saltyfj1200rider's bike and if replacing the TCI unit was a fix to a surging idle in this particular situation.
I'm seeming to encounter the same issue upon actually riding my bike. Its a 1985 FJ1100. I have a post in mods listing jetting but its not the lean stock stuff, only adjustment not set is the needle and will be soon but that will not contribute to an idle issue. Not trying to steal a thread I only want to contribute any info possible.
I spent all day chasing all the vacuum leaks and can only get my idle to settle at 1k if the vac line is unplugged.
I replaced the only manifold that had any dry rot cracks (very small at that) and got some new hose clamps and o-rings. The clamps are not the right type but after a little fiddling I manage to make everything seal, I get NO variation in idle upon spraying with carb cleaner.
Not to mention having the carbs on a set of synchronizers for the duration of leak-checking. No variation before and after, Im sure the leaks were minimal at best. Of course all sync'd off #3 as its the idle adj. so 4to 3 than 2 an 1 to 3 all are spot on the exact same through the rev range and on de-cel (useing actual gauges, not fond of replacing mercury)
No binding whatsoever of throttle issues and all chokes close 100% (test by spraying choke seal directly with carby cleaner) Possible that there is leakage past the choke seat inside the carb, so my next step, before installing aftermarket ignition or another stock TCI, is to use a vac pump on the choke air feed lines and make sure that they seat 100% but like I said I'm sure they do.
But the biggest clue so far is for whatever reason THE TUBE THAT GOES INTO THE TCI ITSELF IS VERY LOOSE I/E COULD POSSIBLY BE PULLED OUT BY HAND. I don't mean the vacuum hose, I mean the fitting the hose slides on that is built into the ignition box. I'm sure there's a vacuum leak inside the box itself considering that piece was so loose. After noticing that I'm going to spend $50 to buy a new rotor for the dyna2000 sitting on my shelf.
Tomorrow I will go to the shop and pull it back apart. I just put on the body (whole faring) pics in my other post. But for tomorrow's agenda Vac test choke air inlet, vac test tube going to TCI itself, and than try another stock unit laying around the shop. We maybe even have a newer one with the external pressure sensor. I'd prefer that over the built in one.
I guess I could go on forever I'm a motorcycle mechanic by trade, so I'll plug away until the solution presents itself. Process of elimination. I'll report findings ASAP
Sean
I am sorry for not updating my troubleshooting info. being new to FJowners.com I was disappointed at how foul some of it's members can get! I replaced both the vac advance unit and the intake boot o'rings (flat but not cracked) at the same time. I can not be sure which solved my problem, but I checked for a vac leak earlier and did not detect any. My idle still hangs vary slightly (barely noticable). I think now sinc carbs and idle mix adj. will fix any remaining issues. For a 22 year old bike, it is AWESOME! :yahoo:
Quote from: saltyfj1200rider on June 14, 2012, 04:57:31 AM
I am sorry for not updating my troubleshooting info. being new to FJowners.com I was disappointed at how foul some of it's members can get!
We're all big boys here, not to worry.
Put your feelings aside and get to know us before you judge us!
Been to one of our Rallies yet??
To meet us, is to love us!
Party on!
Leon
glad you got your bike running good salty.
As for mine, I vacume tested the TCI, and after fiddling with my vac pump finally got a good reading and it didnt loose any vacuum.
The next step was swap in a dyna, but low and behold its for a kawasaki vulcan. bAHHHH
so, after some more digging i found an old ass vance and hines powerpak. woop! open the cover and it says (86-93) well not so fast there charlie brown, after re-doing the switches to get it how i think it should be, i plug it in and nothing!! no fire @ all. :dash2: i suppose it could be that my bikes an 85 but i thought they were the same pinout between years.
Soooo, considering all this, I decide to do some more testing on the I/M's, The first test was at idle, and a very low idle at that. Well after spraying a shitload of carb cleaner with the idle turned up to 2k I got a drop in rpms.
I'm now convinced its still leaking air. Next step is to pull the carbs off, and test the choke circuit, buy some OEM hoseclamps and if all else fails new carb holders.
You may only need new boot o,rings. I ordered a carbtune II and a colortune today to do the final adjustments. I stumbled across the colortune,never heard of it. I am curios to see how well it works. I have my FJ and my friends CB900F to tune.
Color Tune is a wonderful tool. I've used it to dial in many bikes. Pretty easy to use too, and you get to see inside the combustion chamber :dance2:
And, I have of course replaced the o-rings. I've had the carbs off a couple times. It'll be right I'd just like some OEM hose clamps the ones on there now are crap. I think thats why its leaking but I'm going to pull the carbs off again and fix some body work problems, Carbs are comeing back off to vac test internal choke pass and a few other possible leaks.