It seems my oil warning light is coming on more often than it used to. It used to only come on during hard acceleration up a hill. I assumed that this was due to the location of the sensor in the front of the pan. Now it also seems to be coming on while idling on the slightest incline. The oil has less than 1000 miles on it and the looking glass shows near full when on level ground. The only major difference is that it is hotter now but only in the high 80's to mid 90's. :nea:
Thoughts?
49 views and not a single suggestion??? :unknown:
How about a guess - Since you have had the bike for a while, I'll assume you know how to change your oil and fill it to where it needs to be.
With oil in it while not running, then the only 2 reasons it would register a low LEVEL of oil when running would be that the oil is not draining back to the pan because of a blocked oilway or that the level sensor is not reading correctly. The sensor could be broke or you have an electrical fault that is falsely causing the light to come on.
Cheers,
Arnie
Thanks for the guess Arnie. I am worried about the blocked passage as well. On a '89 with 70k miles the electrical is also always a possibility.
My main reason for posting was just to see if this was a "common" issue or not, it seems I might have to start digging.
Steffen,
When you DO find out what the problem IS.... Please post for all the rest of us that also have aging bikes.
Cheers,
Arnie
There is not an oil "passage" that can become blocked and restrict oil flow back to the oil pan. The sensor is a float inside of the brass housing. There is a possibility that the float has become saturated and if not maintaining the actual oil level.
The oil light has not connection to oil pressure within the engine. There is no low oil pressure warning system, only oil level.
On a side not, yesterday when my wife and I were out on a ride we stopped for lunch. Upon the resumption of the ride, she pulled over within a couple of miles and told me her oil light was coming on around the corners. I checked the level on the side of the road and told her to make sure it did not come on and stay on. Upon completion of the ride she told me it came on a few more times, then did not come on after that.
I will price out the oil level sensor next week when I get back to the shop.
Randy - RPM
Thanks Randy,
let me know how much it is and if it worked for your wife.
Steffen
exact same concern posted on the UK FJ Forum, http://www.fjfjrbiker.co.uk/index.php?topic=3278.0 (http://www.fjfjrbiker.co.uk/index.php?topic=3278.0)
Seems like it's not uncommon and nothing to worry about. Happens on my '84 1100 too.
locate the end of the pigtail for the oil level sensor.. unplug it and clean all the accumulated oil, sand & grunge from the connectors. check to make sure the wire is not chaffed especially where the wire passes thru the metal wire-locating-bracket(s).
take off the exhaust (where required). drain oil. remove oil level sensor. put on eye protection. clean the oil level sensor with brakleen or equivalent. lubricate oring and install.
I realy dont know if this has anything to do on a MC forum but a "dude" i know "cleans" engines by mixing 30% disel and the rest oil to clean honda CAR engines.
He start's it for a minut with this mix and then change filters and oil.
It may work if you, dont start the engine, AND you still have the mix in your oil cooler and other places!!!!
So you have to know what you are doing!!!!!!!!
:ireful: :blush: :ireful: :blush: :ireful: :blush:
It may help but be very very carefull!!!!
Same problem on my 1984 FJ1100. Only just started to happen at 80,000kms - infrequent and usually when turning right uphill. Hopefully just a sensor problem and not too much to worry about.
I GET an oil light on acceleration with the oil level correct... previous owner says its a sensor problem.... doesn't make me feel better about seeing this big red light appear on my dash... he said and i quote, oil level is correct, this sensor is not reading correctly...not worth the 280 bucks to correct this thing...as he says the stealership wants but how do i now this is for real?!>? :empathy:
You could do that, but if you are accelerating hard enough to move the oil from the sensor, it won't fix your problem. :empathy3:
Keep the oil level at the top of the sight glass to minimize it.
Remember, it's a level sensor, not pressure. If you know there's enough in it, don't worry too much about it.
Randy T
Indy
Look thru this file that Pat posted up yesterday:
http://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=743.0 (http://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=743.0)
I looked it over quickly last night and remember seeing something about the ignition switch being a possible culprit in false oil readings. seems odd, but worth a look see.
although it is an old topic, I write here:
bike: Yamaha FJ1200, 1991, 3XW, UK model
problem: oil warning lamp is on..
I rebuilt the whole bike, since last November. frame, engine, fairing, electrics, etc.
I cleaned and repair all electrical harness, parts, etc. I discovered that the oil level sensor not working, so I replaced it with used one of Yamaha FZR250. It is identical in form and function.
I checked it before mount as the Haynes manual said and is ok (normal position - ohmmeter=infinite, upside-down position - ohmmeter=0)
if I disconnect the wire under the oil filter, the oil warning lamp go off
I filled engine with new oil up to the maximum.
if I check the sensor (mounted on the engine) with the ohmmeter, I can read 0. that mean oil sensor it's ok.
nevertheless oil warning lamp is on
any ideas?
thanks
PS
I have not yet installed all the electric parts. I have to mount signal lamp, rear stop lamp and gas sensor (tank)
no ideas?
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 03:19:22 PM
no ideas?
Ok, I'll try...
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
I discovered that the oil level sensor not working, so I replaced it with used one of Yamaha FZR250. It is identical in form and function.
I checked it before mount as the Haynes manual said and is ok (normal position - ohmmeter= infinite, upside-down position - ohmmeter= 0)
Question: What sensor are you talking about, the FJ sensor or the FZR250 sensor? Is the Haynes test criteria the same for both sensors? Did you check? Is one oil sensor a normally open sensor and the other a normally closed sensor? They can look the same but be opposite.
So, you mean in the sensor's "normal" position is where the sensor is installed in it's normal position the float should be floating in the oil?
IF so, then the bench test ohm reading should be "infinity", when the float is in it's highest position, correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would be closed.
Then when the oil level is low, and the float lowers, the ohm reading should be "zero" correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would open.
Therefore; Normal = Closed (oil light off) and Abnormal = Open (oil light on); sounds like a "normally closed" sensor
Did you check to see if the float is actually floating? It's a used sensor after all.
Now you have this:
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
if I disconnect the wire under the oil filter, the oil warning lamp go off
Stop right there. That does not mesh with what you said above.
'You say: "the oil warning go off" do you mean that the oil light is "on" and until you disconnect the wire, then the light turns "off"? That does not make sense in a normally closed circuit.
The oil light should go "on" (abnormal condition) when you disconnect the wire, not go off as you described.
(light off= normal condition)
If you take the oil sensor's 2 wires and clip them together to close the circuit, what does the oil light do?
Go on or off?
When tied together, if the oil light goes off (normal condition): you need to have a normally closed sensor
When tied together, if the oil light goes on then you need to have a normally open sensor.
HTH
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 13, 2010, 05:12:46 PM
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 03:19:22 PM
no ideas?
Ok, I'll try...
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
I discovered that the oil level sensor not working, so I replaced it with used one of Yamaha FZR250. It is identical in form and function.
I checked it before mount as the Haynes manual said and is ok (normal position - ohmmeter= infinite, upside-down position - ohmmeter= 0)
Question: What sensor are you talking about, the FJ sensor or the FZR250 sensor? Is the Haynes test criteria the same for both sensors? Did you check? Is one oil sensor a normally open sensor and the other a normally closed sensor? They can look the same but be opposite.
So, you mean in the sensor's "normal" position is where the sensor is installed in it's normal position the float should be floating in the oil?
IF so, then the bench test ohm reading should be "infinity", when the float is in it's highest position, correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would be closed.
Then when the oil level is low, and the float lowers, the ohm reading should be "zero" correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would open.
Therefore; Normal = Closed (oil light off) and Abnormal = Open (oil light on); sounds like a "normally closed" sensor
Did you check to see if the float is actually floating? It's a used sensor after all.
Now you have this:
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
if I disconnect the wire under the oil filter, the oil warning lamp go off
Stop right there. That does not mesh with what you said above.
'You say: "the oil warning go off" do you mean that the oil light is "on" and until you disconnect the wire, then the light turns "off"? That does not make sense in a normally closed circuit.
The oil light should go "on" (abnormal condition) when you disconnect the wire, not go off as you described.
(light off= normal condition)
If you take the oil sensor's 2 wires and clip them together to close the circuit, what does the oil light do?
Go on or off?
When tied together, if the oil light goes off (normal condition): you need to have a normally closed sensor
When tied together, if the oil light goes on then you need to have a normally open sensor.
HTH
Got it backwards, Paddy.... open switch will give an "OL", or "OPEN" or infinite reading, closed will=0 ohms.... AFAIR, the switch closes the circuit to light the lamp.
Quote from: RichBaker on April 13, 2010, 06:18:38 PM
Got it backwards, Paddy.... open switch will give an "OL", or "OPEN" or infinite reading, closed will=0 ohms.... AFAIR, the switch closes the circuit to light the lamp.
I knew it....I should have had my multi tester in front of me when I wrote that but hey, I had a 50/50 chance of nailing it......
That's exactly the reason I use a continuity light.... Simple: light on good.... light off bad.....,
So simple a Irishman could do it..
So Rich, the FJ oil level sensor is a normally open sensor? (closes under abnormal conditions; light comes on)
If so then when Draku opens the circuit (disconnects the wire) his light should go ON.
Unless: When he says his "oil warning lamp goes off" Does he mean that his light comes on?
I gotta go lay down now...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 13, 2010, 09:19:14 PM
the FJ oil level sensor is a normally open sensor? (closes under abnormal conditions; light comes on)
If so then when Draku opens the circuit (disconnects the wire) his light should go ON.
Unless: When he says his "oil warning lamp goes off" Does he mean that his light comes on?
I gotta go lay down now...
basically its a wet switch that makes a ground on the circuit when not covered in oil..
unplugging the switch will turn off the light because a light cannot burn without the ground.
Kookaloo!
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 13, 2010, 05:12:46 PM
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 03:19:22 PM
no ideas?
Ok, I'll try...
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
I discovered that the oil level sensor not working, so I replaced it with used one of Yamaha FZR250. It is identical in form and function.
I checked it before mount as the Haynes manual said and is ok (normal position - ohmmeter= infinite, upside-down position - ohmmeter= 0)
Question: What sensor are you talking about, the FJ sensor or the FZR250 sensor? Is the Haynes test criteria the same for both sensors? Did you check? Is one oil sensor a normally open sensor and the other a normally closed sensor? They can look the same but be opposite.
I am talking about the FZR sensor. I checked it and is ok, according to Haynes test. response was same as for a FJ sensor. so I assume they are identical.
So, you mean in the sensor's "normal" position is where the sensor is installed in it's normal position the float should be floating in the oil?
IF so, then the bench test ohm reading should be "infinity", when the float is in it's highest position, correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would be closed.
Then when the oil level is low, and the float lowers, the ohm reading should be "zero" correct?
Then the circuit in the sensor would open.
Therefore; Normal = Closed (oil light off) and Abnormal = Open (oil light on); sounds like a "normally closed" sensor
Did you check to see if the float is actually floating? It's a used sensor after all.
Haynes said: "take out the sensor and put in a normal position (on a bench, in hand, etc.) and the ohmmeter reading should be infinite". that mean flotor (it is a floating sensor) is down=>low oil level (or no oil).
turn it upside-down and the ohmmeter reading should be 0 (zero). that mean flotor is up=>normal oil level.
I checked it in my hand and the readings was like Haynes said...
I mounted on the oil pan and I put oil in the engine and I checked again with the ohmmeter. reading was 0 (zero). so i think flotor is up=>floating=>sensor ok
Now you have this:
Quote from: draku on April 13, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
if I disconnect the wire under the oil filter, the oil warning lamp go off
Stop right there. That does not mesh with what you said above.
'You say: "the oil warning go off" do you mean that the oil light is "on" and until you disconnect the wire, then the light turns "off"? That does not make sense in a normally closed circuit.
yes, you are right. thats why I am asking here...
The oil light should go "on" (abnormal condition) when you disconnect the wire, not go off as you described.
(light off= normal condition)
If you take the oil sensor's 2 wires and clip them together to close the circuit, what does the oil light do?
Go on or off?
When tied together, if the oil light goes off (normal condition): you need to have a normally closed sensor
When tied together, if the oil light goes on then you need to have a normally open sensor.
on the oil sensor its just one wire. so, if I connect on the "ground" (engine, chassy, etc.) oil warning lamp go on.
so, looks like I need a normally open sensor.
BUT...
somewhere in the electric circuit, wire from sensor going in a "relay assembly" (11 wires connector) and from this one to the light bulb....
I dont know if this one is ok or what's inside... maybe here change "normally close" to "normally open"
HTH
PS
sorry for "bold", I dont know yet how to use "quote" function
Quote from: draku on April 14, 2010, 01:23:33 AM
Haynes said: "take out the sensor and put in a normal position (on a bench, in hand, etc.) and the ohmmeter reading should be infinite". that mean floater (it is a floating sensor) is down=>low oil level (or no oil).
turn it upsetting and the ohmmeter reading should be 0 (zero). that mean floater is up=>normal oil level.
I checked it in my hand and the readings was like Haynes said...
I mounted on the oil pan and I put oil in the engine and I checked again with the ohmmeter. reading was 0 (zero). so i think floater is up=>floating=>sensor OK
Okay,
I just checked three pans/sensors and they are all the same. The Haynes manual you quoted is incorrect for the FJ application. I do know Yamaha made sensors in the manner Haynes describes and they were installed in the late 90's early 00's FJ/XJ application.
So with pan in the , "no oil position", the ohmmeter reads continuity. With the pan in the "filled with oil" position the ohmmeter reads infinite.
The switch is just a float the makes a grounded contact with wire to the oil light circuit when the oil is removed from the pan.
If your light is on with the oil in the pan and goes off when you unplug it, it is the wrong sensor.
Randy - RPM
I will try to open the old sensor, maybe I can see how it's working...
problem solved
I repaired the original oil sensor.
I make a big hole with a drill bit in the resin from bottom part of the sensor. I removed the inside sensor ( which looks like this http://www.moviliftjad.ro/assets/files/Componente%20electrice/Informatii%20put/FIOLA%20REED%20TRADUCTOR.jpg (http://www.moviliftjad.ro/assets/files/Componente%20electrice/Informatii%20put/FIOLA%20REED%20TRADUCTOR.jpg) ) and I replace it.
now it works ok
it is not that difficult to do
thank you for support
Had a similar problem, near poohed my pants,when the light came on, immediate stop, checked oil level all ok!, restarted the bike, no rattly sounds as to low oil pressure, continued home.
A couple of days later, was checking the electrics and came upon a bullet connector which worn insulation on it and was occasionally making earth, repaired the inso, problem solved, hope this helped :yahoo:
Hey Desyboy, Where ya bin. Sent ya a PM back in Oct (5th). How`s Eugowa? Doug
e author=Arnie link=topic=617.msg4584#msg4584 date=1248826883]
Steffen,
When you DO find out what the problem IS.... Please post for all the rest of us that also have aging bikes.
Cheers,
Arnie
[/quote]
I have exactly the same problem. Today I went out and its 80 degrees. Hard acceleration on an incline and it came on for a second. Went home. Go to garage I'm car. Bought some oil came back and the level is fine. Haven't used it for 9 months and it spits under acceleration and when I close the throttle. No idea why?? Tony
QuoteI have exactly the same problem. Today I went out and its 80 degrees. Hard acceleration on an incline and it came on for a second. Went home. Go to garage I'm car. Bought some oil came back and the level is fine. Haven't used it for 9 months and it spits under acceleration and when I close the throttle. No idea why?? Tony
Tony,
The oil light comes from the oil level sensor, which is just a little float, in the crankcase. When you accelerate hard, or uphill, the oil drains back a bit, at least enough to make the oil light come on as the float goes down. It is
not an oil pressure sensor, and the light does
not mean that you lost the oil pressure, even for a second. What you saw is just normal operation, with the FJ. You can install an oil pressure sensor if you wish, but the FJ does not come with one, from the factory.
Nine months is long enough for ethanol/gas to start making problems. Run a can of SeaFoam through the gas tank, according to the directions on the can. That should do the job for you.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: scapello on July 23, 2009, 04:38:12 PM
It seems my oil warning light is coming on more often than it used to. It used to only come on during hard acceleration up a hill. I assumed that this was due to the location of the sensor in the front of the pan. Now it also seems to be coming on while idling on the slightest incline. The oil has less than 1000 miles on it and the looking glass shows near full when on level ground. The only major difference is that it is hotter now but only in the high 80's to mid 90's. :nea:
Thoughts?
My 1992 FJ1200 (90,000km) had same problem. Took off sump. there is an oil pressure release valve that sits in the sump held only with a rubber O ring. This was extremely loose. I suspect that oil pressure is lost via the O ring as its aluminium seating has got worn over the years. Wound wire under the O ring seating. Now fits in tight. That doesn't explain the light flashing so I put in a new oil level sensor. I am surprised these bikes don't have a warning for low pressure. Unusually, after this job, I did not have any nuts, bolts or washers left over.