First, I'd like to apologize for posting this question when I'm sure that the answer is on the board somewhere. I have really slow rural internet and it's brutal trying to search through all the information here.
Anyway, I'm assembling the pieces to swap a 17x5.5 GSXR1100 rear wheel onto my '84. I'd like to keep the final gearing close to the original '84 specs, but I don't know how the diameter of the 17" tire compares to the old 16". I'd like to know what size rear sprocket to get. I know that there will be some change, so I'd like to err on the side of cruising RPMs going down rather than up.
Also, what is the best tire size to use on this swap? I'm not concerned with having the widest tire I can cram into the frame, and I'd rather not deal with a "this size Brand A tire fits, but the same size Brand B tire rubs" scenario.
Also, what's a good modern sport touring radial tire, with an emphasis on "touring". I hate to say it, but living in central Illinois, corners are few and far between. I'm more concerned with long lasting tires than knee-dragging cornering ability. I put a lot of miles on the FJ on the highway and cornfield grid roads.
Thanks a lot.
Wow, thats a lot of conditions.
Question: Why did you go to the trouble of doing the conversion? You don't appear to be interested in any of the benefits. Sounds like you should have just kept the stock wheel and used a Dunlop D401. I got a ton of miles out of one of those.
DavidR.
the overall diameter of the 17" wheel with tire is almost exactly the same as the 16" wheel with tire.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on February 02, 2012, 09:38:47 PM
the overall diameter of the 17" wheel with tire is almost exactly the same as the 16" wheel with tire.
Yep, what he said......
Thanks for the good info, racerman and fjmonkey. I'll just keep the stock gearing.
That being said, Slow old guy, I think that you're making a lot of assumptions as far as my motives go.
There are a few reasons why I'm doing the swap. One reason is for wider availability of tires. I'd like to be able to choose from a number of modern tires that can offer more grip and mileage than the tires available for the somewhat obsolete 16" front and rear tires that I have now. Don't misunderstand my first post. I am still concerned with good grip and handling. I do manage to find some curves out here and let 'em have it. That's why I asked for a "sport touring" tire on the touring end of the spectrum. I didn't ask "do Goldwing tires fit on an FJ"?. But I'm also not looking for a "sport touring" tire that's designed for very aggressive riding at the expense of mileage. You can't tell me that I can find a tire in the original 16" size that can provide the benefits of a cutting-edge tire design available in 17" sizes.
Another reason I'm doing the swap is that I understand that the 17" wheels (arguably) provide much better handling. Again, my area is lacking a lot of good, curvy roads, but I do enjoy going around the ones that I can find (at high speed).
Yet another reason is that I changed to a 17" front wheel as well. Even if I don't have any other "legitimate" reason to want a 17" front wheel, the upgraded blue dot brakes are certainly a benefit that I'm interested in. So I wanted a 17" rear to match.
I didn't make any assumptions. I simply read the following paragraph. I really liked the 16 inch D401. It was one of the longest lasting tires I have ever run. Also performed as well as any radial I've tried.
From your stated "requirements" I was simply giving you my best answer. I have yet to find a 17" tire that gives the mileage/performance equivalent of that Harley tire.
Also, for the record, my stock 2-piston calipers with Ferodo pads were just as good as the monoblocs that replaced them. I do still have the 5/8ths master. But I'm not a big fan of overly sensitive brakes anyway.
DavidR.
Quote from: TheRadBaron on February 02, 2012, 09:08:10 PM
Also, what's a good modern sport touring radial tire, with an emphasis on "touring". I hate to say it, but living in central Illinois, corners are few and far between. I'm more concerned with long lasting tires than knee-dragging cornering ability. I put a lot of miles on the FJ on the highway and cornfield grid roads.
Thanks a lot.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on February 02, 2012, 09:38:47 PM
the overall diameter of the 17" wheel with tire is almost exactly the same as the 16" wheel with tire.
Well, guys, if maths don´t lie to me, the overall 16" rim with tyre diameter is 646 mm and 636 mm with a 170/60/17 and 630 with a 180/55/17
In fact with the mod done you can feel the rear like a custom bike and a shorter dogbones are essential to a flickable handling
Quote from: TheRadBaron on February 02, 2012, 09:08:10 PM
First, I'd like to apologize for posting this question when I'm sure that the answer is on the board somewhere. I have really slow rural internet and it's brutal trying to search through all the information here.
Anyway, I'm assembling the pieces to swap a 17x5.5 GSXR1100 rear wheel onto my '84. I'd like to keep the final gearing close to the original '84 specs, but I don't know how the diameter of the 17" tire compares to the old 16". I'd like to know what size rear sprocket to get. I know that there will be some change, so I'd like to err on the side of cruising RPMs going down rather than up.
Also, what is the best tire size to use on this swap? I'm not concerned with having the widest tire I can cram into the frame, and I'd rather not deal with a "this size Brand A tire fits, but the same size Brand B tire rubs" scenario.
Also, what's a good modern sport touring radial tire, with an emphasis on "touring". I hate to say it, but living in central Illinois, corners are few and far between. I'm more concerned with long lasting tires than knee-dragging cornering ability. I put a lot of miles on the FJ on the highway and cornfield grid roads.
Thanks a lot.
Take a look to my web. This is the conversion that I´ve done. You have detailed info inside
Regards
Alf
I used the chart on this link to find tire diameter in inches.
http://www.stevenott.com/tyresizes.htm (http://www.stevenott.com/tyresizes.htm)
150/80x16 = 25.45"
170/60x17 = 25.03"
I'm going with the stock 17 countersprocket and going to drop down to a 38 rear. Like you, I'd like to get on the cruising side of the ratio. I haven't done the math to know the exact difference this will be to the original gearing.
TheRadBaron, go to the Files section, child boards, gearing files, there is a spreadsheet that does all the maths for you. I think I got the link right, haven't worked out how to do that yet. BTW, I went with 38/18 on my 1990, dropped the revs nicely, now about 3800 at 110kph, just over 5000 at 160kph. Down side is I find myself in 2nd and 3rd around town up to 70kph, not such a bad thing to get the lower revs when cruising on the hwy.
Cheers, Dazza
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=583.msg4274#msg4274 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=583.msg4274#msg4274)
Please, mates, where have you find a 38 GSXR rear sprocket?. I had to special order a JT one because I can only find 43-44 ones
As stated the overall diameter is only slightly smaller with a 170/60x17. Means ride height is 1/4" lower.
There are no "dogbones" on the '84 so if you want to raise the ride height you'll have to get a shock that is longer or has adjustable length. Optionally, you could lower the front by that amount (or a bit more).
I've been running a GSXR wheel for about 12 years and have never found a rear sprocket smaller than 42.
So, I run a 18t countershaft sprocket with that 42 rear.
As for tires, a lot depends on what you like. I've been happy with Bridgestone BT020, Pirelli MTR04, Metzler Z6, and Michelin PR2 (which I have on currently). I've also got another PR2 to put on when I wear this one out. I get 14-16,000 kms out of rear tires (8500-10,000 miles).
Cheers,
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on February 03, 2012, 07:24:16 AM
.>>>> and have never found a rear sprocket smaller than 42. <<<<<
JTR816.38 This is the JT number for the 38 tooth / 530 sprocket that I found for the GSXR wheel.
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/sprocket/JTR816-38 (http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/sprocket/JTR816-38)
I found the previous link on this page; http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5833 (http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5833) which lists the sprocket as a '530 chain conversion' for the GSXR for model years '89-'92. I've got a '90 GSXR-1100 Rear Wheel.
I haven't ordered it yet. I'd love some confirmation from the forum that this is a viable option. ?
Doh! Gear ratio chart on this same page if you scroll down a bit.
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5833 (http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5833)
...assuming that the sprocket selection I'm looking at is a workable option.
Quote from: Arnie on February 03, 2012, 07:24:16 AM
There are no "dogbones" on the '84 so if you want to raise the ride height you'll have to get a shock that is longer or has adjustable length. Optionally, you could lower the front by that amount (or a bit more).
I've been running a GSXR wheel for about 12 years and have never found a rear sprocket smaller than 42.
So, I run a 18t countershaft sprocket with that 42 rear.
It is true!!!!. Sorry, I missed it
Good combo that 18/42. I want to fit a Supersprox rear, so I will ask for it
If you like the 17/40 combo (a little shorter than the OE with 16") you can order to JT. It is not expensive apart from paying in advance
Quote from: markmartin on February 03, 2012, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Arnie on February 03, 2012, 07:24:16 AM
.>>>> and have never found a rear sprocket smaller than 42. <<<<<
JTR816.38 This is the JT number for the 38 tooth / 530 sprocket that I found for the GSXR wheel.
I haven't ordered it yet. I'd love some confirmation from the forum that this is a viable option. ?
A FJ Spanish owner has just to order a 40 one and it is not available. It has to be payed in advance, and made in Britain, so it could delayed 2 weeks. I suppose 38 & 39 have the same problem
Maybe they think they have it in stock. ?
http://powersport-superstore-inc.amazonwebstore.com/JT-Sprockets-Rear-Sprocket-Steel-38T/M/B001AVU166.htm (http://powersport-superstore-inc.amazonwebstore.com/JT-Sprockets-Rear-Sprocket-Steel-38T/M/B001AVU166.htm)
I use a Metz z6 for my commuting and its lasted a ridiculous 27,000km so far . No twisties here just greasy gravelly backroads and boring motorway.It a good tyre for in the rain too! I run a 18 front sprocket and 42t rear on my gsxr rear wheel.I'll try a 39t next.
I called my supplier and I can get a 39t rear sprocket that will fit that Suzuki wheel.
He said they jump to 41-42-43-45 and continue upward.
I can have it next week if you want me to get it.
Don't forget I have the 18t front sprocket in stock.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on February 03, 2012, 04:16:44 PM
I called my supplier and I can get a 39t rear sprocket that will fit that Suzuki wheel.
He said they jump to 41-42-43-45 and continue upward.
I can have it next week if you want me to get it.
Don't forget I have the 18t front sprocket in stock.
Randy - RPM
Man, now I feel like an ass. I went ahead and ordered a 38 this afternoon to see if in fact they are available, and just saw your post now. If they don't come through, I'll be emailing you. I'm sure others will be calling you, the GSXR swap seems to be gaining popularity.
Mark
Alright. My internet was working a bit faster today, so after a bunch of searching around and thinking about it, I started ordering parts.
I went with Metzeler Z6 tires. 120/70-17 front and 180/55-17 rear. Hopefully the rear fits without any problems. I also ordered an 18-tooth front sprocket and a 38-tooth rear. I'm not convinced that I'll be satisfied with that gearing, but I figured that it was worth a shot. A new EK ZZZ chain is on the way, as well.
I'm pretty excited about the condition that my '84 will emerge from the shop in this spring. The chassis is bone stock right now, but it's getting 17" front and rear wheels with new tires, later forks with Race Tech emulators and aftermarket springs, blue dot calipers with a radial GSXR600 master cylinder, and a very nice fairing to replace my smashed up one.
Boy! When you make a change, you make LOTS of changes! :-)
It will feel like a completely different bike. I'm not sure you'll like that 18/38 gearing, but you should get pretty decent milage :-)
Are you also getting (or do you have) SS brake lines? That will make as much difference as the new calipers and master.
Cheers,
Arnie
I already have stainless lines. I put them on last winter when I was initially fixing up the bike. I agree that the 18/38 gearing might be a bit extreme and I might not like it. A number of other members on here seem to like the combo, though. Plus, 90% of my riding is in a straight line at 80mph and I don't do much stop-and-go city riding, so it might be nice to drop the revs down.
I am a pathological modifier of motorcycles. Every bike I own is modified at least somewhat. Unless the bike is a really boring and common model I always keep all the original parts that were taken off in case I want to change it back some day.
I was hesitant to change all this stuff on my FJ. I really like the early '80s sportbike era and ditching the anti-dive forks and 16" wheels will take a lot of the character away from the bike. I will mourn the loss, but since the FJ is my main bike and I'm not in the market for a new bike, I think the mods will make me happy enough to offset the loss. Plus, I won't be selling a bit of the takeoff parts. That way when I do get a new bike someday to replace the FJ for daily duties I can swap all the original parts back on and have all the '80s quirkiness.
Quote from: TheRadBaron on February 04, 2012, 11:33:43 AM
I already have stainless lines. I put them on last winter when I was initially fixing up the bike. I agree that the 18/38 gearing might be a bit extreme and I might not like it. A number of other members on here seem to like the combo, though. Plus, 90% of my riding is in a straight line at 80mph and I don't do much stop-and-go city riding, so it might be nice to drop the revs down.
I am a pathological modifier of motorcycles. Every bike I own is modified at least somewhat. Unless the bike is a really boring and common model I always keep all the original parts that were taken off in case I want to change it back some day.
I was hesitant to change all this stuff on my FJ. I really like the early '80s sportbike era and ditching the anti-dive forks and 16" wheels will take a lot of the character away from the bike. I will mourn the loss, but since the FJ is my main bike and I'm not in the market for a new bike, I think the mods will make me happy enough to offset the loss. Plus, I won't be selling a bit of the takeoff parts. That way when I do get a new bike someday to replace the FJ for daily duties I can swap all the original parts back on and have all the '80s quirkiness.
Yeah , save all the parts in a box and store them for a couple years before you realize you will never put them on again because your fj handles sooo much better and you're never going back.
Yeah, I'm sure that it will handle better with the updates. But I also know that someday I'll want to put it back to original. I'm an avid rider of motorcycles, but I'm kind of a collector, too. The FJ is the newest street bike that I own and everything else I have is mostly early '70s and earlier, back to a '47 Harley flathead that my dad restored when I was young and gave me a few years ago (Disclaimer: I am not and never will be a "Harley guy". I don't own a single Harley t-shirt or sticker, and I'm reluctant to even tell anyone that I own a Harley because I don't want to talk about chrome accessories and badass attitudes. The "lifestyle" and everything it represents disgusts me). That being said, I really enjoy period bikes for what they are. I love riding the Harley because it's the quintessential antique motorcycle experience. Big, 74 inch flathead motor with something like 20 horsepower, rigid frame with sprung, single saddle, springer forks, hand-shift/foot-clutch, manual advance/retard igntion, extremely archaic and ritualistic kickstarting procedure. Plus, it's just a good looking machine with great lines.
I love late 60's/early '70s Japanese bikes for their period design, too. I love the big, DLS front drum brakes, flexy tube frames, quirky 2-stroke engines in every imaginable configuration (though I love the 4-strokes, too), spindly forks and twin rear shocks with no dampening. And again, I love the styling. No plastic, exposed everything. Very mechanical and pure, I think. I know that it sounds like I'm knocking them, but that era is my absolute favorite period in motorcycling. Nothing can come close to the charm for me that those bikes have. Things starter to get lousy in the mid-late '70s though. I abhor those stupid factory "custom" Jap bikes that seemed to outsell standards 10 to 1. Ugh.
Up until recently, my enthusiasm for streetbikes stopped at the mid '70s (dirt bikes stayed cool for a while longer). Last year I started to see the charm in the early '80s sport bikes, though. I think that it was Honda's red, white, and blue paint schemes that first caught my eye. Pretty soon I really started to get interested in owning one. I found the '84 FJ and bought it up. Obviously, the performance is a real step up from the '70s twins that I'm used to. It's been enough to make me get interested in modern bikes. I'm not prepared to buy a newer, big sport-tourer at this point, but I'd like even more performance and practicality out of the FJ. Hence the mods.
Some day I will get a newer bike, though, and I'll want to return the FJ to stock so that I can ride it around and experience all the characteristics that were cutting-edge in its era. I know that it will be a "downgrade" in terms of pure performance, but I'll have the newer bike for all that. The new bike won't be able to provide the '80s experience that the original-again FJ will.
well that sounds like you are on your way to your own museum of motorcycles . That is awesome . :drinks:
Thanks. It really doesn't make any sense how much happiness these old bikes give me. Sometimes I try to explain it but I just end up sounding uber-cliche and beyond cheesy. I get all misty-eyed just thinking about it. Sniff...
Quote from: Mark Olson on February 04, 2012, 11:41:09 AM
Yeah , save all the parts in a box and store them for a couple years before you realize you will never put them on again because your fj handles sooo much better and you're never going back.
Yes, I had the same idea to back to the OE specs too... and the OE parts live for ever inside a big box in the most dark corner of my storage room
The handling transformation will be amazing with the new wheels (especially the front one). I too kept all my original equipment when I swapped the wheels. It's been in a box in the attic ever since and that's where it will stay.
The good thing about your set of mods (from a period collector standpoint) is they don't detract from the original look of the bike. Most people don't even notice my mods.
I'm not a fan of the heavily modded FJs, but if you keep the stock bodywork, a front and rear swap (wheels, forks, and swingarm) can retain the essential FJ look.
Once you experience the ride, you'll forget all about 16 inch wheels and anti-dive.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 05, 2012, 06:24:19 PM
Once you experience the ride, you'll forget all about 16 inch wheels and anti-dive.
DavidR.
Ehhh, what anti-dive??? As Rocky the Squirrel said "that trick never works"
CraigO