new jets, float height set (but not fuel level) bike runs strong and pulls cleanly..... no fuel running out the overflow tubes but when i pull the carbs there is wet fuel inside the carb joints..... mileage aint the best but i have been know to twist the throttle a bit.
bike never started without choke before.
BTW i am running the jetting recommended by Andy and Ken for my motor.
could fuel level be affecting this?
KOokaloo!
Frank
Frank,
I would think the only way a stone cold motor would start with no choke would be if 'unmetered' raw fuel is getting into the intake. High fuel level, leaking, and/or excessive pressure could contribute.
None of my bikes will start without choke. That's even in 100+ temps.
Are you using the flatslide carbs? What do the plugs look like?
DavidR.
David,
Ken wanted me to run the stock carbs since they went to all the trouble to rebuild Brutus again.
there is fuel puddling inside the carb joints... i'm gonna check that fuel level..... do you think having the rear end jacked up so high is causing the fuel level to be too high in the front side of the float bowls?
i'm gonna pull the plugs and see what they look like.
Frank
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 21, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
David,
do you think having the rear end jacked up so high is causing the fuel level to be too high in the front side of the float bowls?
Frank
Frank.. that sounds like a good possibility.......just been looking at the intake manifolds....... you could possibly get away with machining the cylinder side at an appropriate angle, re-groove for the o-ring....... just a thought.
Harvy :mail1: :mail1:
Frank raise your fuel levels a tad and see if that helps......
Eric M
Quote from: Yamifj1200 on June 21, 2009, 07:00:18 PM
Frank raise your fuel levels a tad and see if that helps......
Eric M
Dont cha mean lower the fuel levels?...... there is definitely raw fuel getting into the intake boots.... float valves seal up and nothing coming out the overflow tubes
OOooooops I stand corrected.... :wacko3: you sir are correct!!!!!!!! :good2:
no.... you had the right answer you were just dsylexic in writing it...... :dance2:
I start my '90 every day in summer without the choke, I have since I bought her with 2300 miles on the clock.....she idles a little slow, ~800RPM, but she runs fine.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on June 20, 2009, 11:18:58 PM
Frank,
I would think the only way a stone cold motor would start with no choke would be if 'unmetered' raw fuel is getting into the intake. High fuel level, leaking, and/or excessive pressure could contribute.
None of my bikes will start without choke. That's even in 100+ temps.
Are you using the flatslide carbs? What do the plugs look like?
DavidR.
Latest inspection.......
raw fuel in the carb joints and all inside the carb throat.... plugs are black and wet.
i'm gonna try lowering the fuel level and see how it goes..... whats the recommended fuel level?
KOokaloo!
Frank
2.5mm to 3.5mm on an '86.......but that's with the carbs level front to back and side to side......you will probably have to make allowance for your jacked up swingarm.
Harvy
Quote from: Harvy on June 22, 2009, 09:03:47 PM
2.5mm to 3.5mm on an '86.......but that's with the carbs level front to back and side to side......you will probably have to make allowance for your jacked up swingarm.
Harvy
where is that measured from? i've never had cause to mess with the fuel level before.
Frank
Measured from the upper gasket surface of the carb body. Run a clear line from the drain, up and see where the fuel is... you'll have to open the drain screw 1st.
Here is how it is done on my YZF, yours should be similar.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/bpro/YZF600R-ZF-60.jpg)
and here is a simplified drawing I did at one point....
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/bpro/6aac7cb5.jpg)
Hope this helps clear things up.
Of course you could ask George over at Yahoo.
Quote from: the fan on June 23, 2009, 02:52:08 PM
Of course you could ask George over at Yahoo.
ask advice from one who has been passed...... by a harley... in a corner ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? :lol:
that's funny stuff right there......thanks but no thanks on that one.
i believe i can figure it out now.... thanks for the pictures :biggrin:
The carbs (or bike) do not need to be level (front-to-back) for an accurate fuel level measurement. Just make sure you measure the level at the middle of the bowl. The level will pivot about the center of the bowl. Of course, the side-to-side needs to be level.
Frank,
Try making a big adjustment to see if that's even the problem. You can always back off on it.
DavidR.
Frank, Clymers manual says the clear tube should be 6mm id.
Harvy
float level was way off..... 18.3mm
i reset them to factory spec of 22.3mm
fuel level worked out to about 2.8mm with this setting
bike is running much crisper now
i had to reset my idle as it jumped up a bit with this change.
i'm going to give it a try in the morning and see if it will start without the choke.
KOokaloo!
Frank
:good:
Harvy
well the FJ will still start up without the choke...... the fuel level is right.... float height is right...... nothing coming out the overflow tubes (and they are clear i tested them)
crap!
what next Gentlemen?
This may sound wrong, but try installing a set of pilots 2-3 sized smaller than stock.
With the big bores and high compression you are pulling considerably more vacuum than a stock bike. the result of this may be that you are atomizing the fuel drawn through the low speed circuits into much finer particles. this gives the fuel a greater surface area and therefore a richer mixture. Ultimately the solution may lie in the air jet, but changing the pilot should help shoew what is going on.
don't laugh. I ran into this a few times on heavily modified offroad bikes and ATV's.
Bill,
I know exactly what you're talking about.... ran into the same issue when i installed the big bore kit on my DRZ along with the FCR39..... i actually had to run smaller jets than recommended for stock engine in order to lean out the mix.
i already have 37.5 pilots in (down from the 42.5 that Andy and Ken sent me)..... think i should drop them on down smaller?
my question ...... what is the cause of the wet/raw fuel in the intake tracts?
this shit sucks..... i just wanna ride
OK, you have fuel puddling in the carb throat but no fuel coming out of the overflows.
Correct?
That really sounds like the fuel level is still too high. Forget what I said about the pilots for now, and raise the float height/lower the level by 3mm or so. The floats pivot at the rear of the carbs. If you have raised the back/lowered the front enough, it might be enough to flood the pilot circuit with the stock float height.
I would be really suprised if this was it, but its possible.
BTW your map is wrong. I have proof that you wewre in indiana.....
LOL PRoof?????
indiana is just white ...... the map is gonna be updated big time when Eric and i get back from glacier.
BTW Andy is sending me his known good set of carbs to try. while i will ship my know not so good carbs to him..... sounds like a fair trade to me :drinks:
thanks for your help brother,
Frank
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 26, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
LOL PRoof?????
indiana is just white ...... the map is gonna be updated big time when Eric and i get back from glacier.
So is that in honor of the hoosiers "klannish" background? I mean the place is dull, but it at least rates pink...come on, Micheal Jackson and Axle Rose both came from Gary Indiana, The Hoosier states own little rust belt....
Quote from: the fan on June 26, 2009, 11:03:33 PM
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 26, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
LOL PRoof?????
indiana is just white ...... the map is gonna be updated big time when Eric and i get back from glacier.
So is that in honor of the hoosiers "klannish" background? I mean the place is dull, but it at least rates pink...come on, Micheal Jackson and Axle Rose both came from Gary Indiana, The Hoosier states own little rust belt....
Axl Rose is from Lafayette, as is Izzy Stradlin (aka Jeff Isbell). David Lee Roth is from Bloomington.
Randy T
Indy
Frank.......what progress on the problem of fuel in excess?
Harvy
I had the same issue after I sync'd my carbs. it runs a little rich but at least i'm not burning up pistons.
I even out drag'd my boys 05 GSXR today, actully everytime i race him. lol
Quote from: Harvy on July 01, 2009, 04:56:27 PM
Frank.......what progress on the problem of fuel in excess?
Harvy
Harvy,
no more issues since i installed a known good set of carbs.... dont know what's wrong with my original set but am suspecting worn emulsion tubes.
Frank