Hello,
I own a 1978 XS1100 Standard, which I very much like (engine character, ergonomics, handling(!), sound).
I have an opportunity to buy a 1986 FJ1200 and was wondering how similar/different these bikes are, especially in terms of power delivery, handling and sound.
Is there anything I should be aware of, e.g. technical issues for the 1986 model year?
Any advice is appreciated.
Greetings from Colorado,
Armin
Quote from: QTreiber on November 01, 2011, 10:06:44 PM
Is there anything I should be aware of, e.g. technical issues for the 1986 model year?
Motors are the same. 5 speed transmissions are the same. Ergonomics are the same.
The 1989's+ had 17" front rims and dogbone swingarm linkage and the 1992'-'93's had the smoother rubber mounted motor.
Nothing wrong with the '86 other than the wonky fuel reserve switch and the industrial red and white colors.
Actually the red and white kinda works in your favor. People keep pulling over 'cause they think you are some sort of ambulance.
It's the general consensus that the original '84 FJ1100 Silver and Red is far more attractive. (popcorn)
I've got 2 XS1100's and if you mean the comparison between the XS and the FJ, well they are a world apart.
My '82 XJ1100 was a farm tractor compared to my '85 FJ. Best motorcycle upgrade I ever made.
DavidR.
I also had an '82 XJ11, the engine/trans design without shaft drive would be the only comparable(s) I can speak of. One thing you won't miss at all moving from an XS/XJ11 to an FJ is not having to mess with the lousy manual cam chain tensioner
According to this(XS 1100)
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/yamaha_xs_1100_1979.php (http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/yamaha_xs_1100_1979.php)
Comparing it to the FJ...
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_fj1200%20%2086.htm (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_fj1200%20%2086.htm)
The FJ looks much better. I can only post about on sheet data as I have never ridden an XS but with more power, higher top speed and being lighter(somewhat) I would say the FJ is a ton better
Slightly off-topic but my first 'real road bike' was the venerable XJ 550 Maxim, which I rode the hell out of. Great bullet-proof bike, really taught me a lot about street riding.
Regarding this thread overall, it occurs to me that the XJ/ XS series fits nicely into that 'UJM' (universal Japanese motorcycle) category. Which, by the time of the early-to-mid 80's, these bikes, by all 4 big Japanese manufacturers, were so very prolific [and sucessful] that Harldly Davidison was at real risk of going out of business. In response, the US instituted tariffs aimed directly at impeding the sales and import of Japanese motorcycles, and therefore, helping the slumping Hardley sales. Interestingly, AMF has seen this trend coming and sold Harley, back to ~Harley [Willie G. and other investors] in 1981. It was these folks that managed to convince congress to institute the tariffs.
Ultimately, IMO, the tariffs were wrong-headed policy. Read more here, if you have any interest: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html) but I digress....
...Whereas, the FJ was meant, I believe, to be a bird of a different color/ game-changer/ paradigm shifter... With its perimeter frame, full[er] fairings (a distinct nod to aerodynamics), molded gas tank etc., significantly more R&D dollars went into the FJ than any of the recent XJ/ XS releases.
The FJ was over-shadowed some by the big Suzy, which was released at the same time. This is a shame really, this may have been the beginning of the motorcycle mags raving about [largely-unusable] top-end power, that got those high[er] numbers, at the expense of mid-range [usable] torque -something the FJ has in buckets, and a trade-off that Yamaha engineers made intentionally, seems to me. [Alternatively, perhaps it was the introduction of liquid cooling, and then fuel injection that caused, or at least fostered the irrational race to the highest top end power...]
Even today, the mags do not seem to get it, despite the success of the R1, (again, it's Yamaha bucking the trend with its cross plane crank, and before that, the 20 valve design) with less power, more mid-range torque, these bikes compete well enough on the track, but excel on the street, where 95% of the bikes life will be. Yet, if you read the various mags, as I do, the snarky 'under-powered' moniquers abound.
-I'm just rambling now... someone stop me... Nevermind, I'll do it myself...
:hi:
Dan
Quote from: Ganboy70 on November 02, 2011, 09:04:39 AM
One thing you won't miss at all moving from an XS/XJ11 to an FJ is not having to mess with the lousy manual cam chain tensioner
It's not that much hassle, what is it, every 4,000miles? But the latest mod for the cct is to fit an automatic one from a V-MAX. Straight swap.
My first serious love affair with big bikes was the FJ, then along came an XS and it's like an addiction. After 30 odd years there's always something that will need fixing, but once you get on top of them they are a joy.
Both mine are non standard and that's part of the appeal for me, they can be altered fairly easily.
(http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/FJ111200/004.jpg)
I can think of 3 positives in upgrading to the FJ. #1, you get rid of that shaft. You know how when you pin the throttle and the rear rises before you go forward???? That'll be gone.
#2, you get a real comfortable, good handling sport touring motorcycle with a nice fairing and great egros. Downside is that pesky 2nd gear issue, which I understand the XS1100 shares with the 87 and younger FJs.
#3, you get great advise and a plethora of information from all of us on this forum. :good2:
Buy the FJ, you will not be disappointed.
CraigO
Of couse buy an FJ, i'm not saying stick with the XS, it's a different kettle of fish.
No prizes for spotting the upgrade.
(http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/FJ111200/002-7.jpg)
well the xs I used to have I rode thru a window of my neighbors house when the brakes failed.(rally story)
the shaft shuffle is a pain to deal with and it always seems to run wide in corners when ya push it.
get the fj and you will feel better. :good2:
Quote from: FJ111200 on November 02, 2011, 10:54:30 AM
Of couse buy an FJ, i'm not saying stick with the XS, it's a different kettle of fish.
No prizes for spotting the upgrade.
Those old FJ front ends turn up everywhere... somewhere around here I have a pic of one on an H2
Thank you very much for the encouraging info!
Now I am really eager to get the FJ1200... I like the white and red.
Armin
Right choice. There really was no need to bite on Pats silver bait, everyone knows the red and white are the best looking. :i_am_so_happy:
Quote from: Mike 86 in San Dimas on November 02, 2011, 09:28:04 PM
Right choice. There really was no need to bite on Pats silver bait, everyone knows the red and white are the best looking. :i_am_so_happy:
And Pat's Silver & Red still looks like an Ambulance, just for the Highly Polished Upper Class.... :sarcastic:
Quote from: craigo on November 02, 2011, 10:41:18 AM
...
#2, you get a real comfortable, good handling sport touring motorcycle with a nice fairing and great egros. Downside is that pesky 2nd gear issue, which I understand the XS1100 shares with the 87 and younger FJs.
...
CraigO
Please confirm which FJ1200 years had the issue with the 2nd gear. 87 and older FJ's?
Thank you,
Armin
Sorry about that. Yeah, the 84-87 USA models had problems with the 2nd gear. When you really twisted the throttle on her in second with out a firm input, it may pop out of gear. So the sad story goes, at least. I have never owned anything but 1990 FJs and never had a problem. Just going by what I overheard.
Any of you pre 89 owners want to chirp in here?
Quote from: Dan Filetti on November 02, 2011, 10:14:04 AM
The FJ was over-shadowed some by the big Suzy, which was released at the same time. This is a shame really, this may have been the beginning of the motorcycle mags raving about [largely-unusable] top-end power, that got those high[er] numbers, at the expense of mid-range [usable] torque -something the FJ has in buckets, and a trade-off that Yamaha engineers made intentionally, seems to me. [Alternatively, perhaps it was the introduction of liquid cooling, and then fuel injection that caused, or at least fostered the irrational race to the highest top end power...]
Dan
'84 FJ was Motorcyclist Mags Fastest Bike of the Year....... and was also the last FOBY.
IIRC, the FJ was the only bike that could pull redline in top gear during the high speed test.
DavidR.
I've got a friend doing a chain conversion on a XS1100 -
http://motohorseman.forumotion.com/t43-xs1100-chain-conversion (http://motohorseman.forumotion.com/t43-xs1100-chain-conversion)
He is still making progress, lots of hurdles.
Chain drive is the way to go.
Quote from: craigo on November 02, 2011, 10:44:47 PM
Sorry about that. Yeah, the 84-87 USA models had problems with the 2nd gear. When you really twisted the throttle on her in second with out a firm input, it may pop out of gear. So the sad story goes, at least. I have never owned anything but 1990 FJs and never had a problem. Just going by what I overheard.
Any of you pre 89 owners want to chirp in here?
My 1990 and my 1985 needed the trans fixed.
my 86 has no trans problem yet at 30k , I have owned it since 15k miles.
being aware of the problem and careful shifting and you will never develop the pop out issue. :pardon:
I thought Randy mentioned that the upgraded shifting forks came out on the 3rd gen 92's ?
You can break second gear on nearly any Yamaha trans of the period. The earlier bikes are simply more likely to have problems, poorer design and generally more mileage.
My 90 had the old style forks when I pulled it apart.
You know, me thinks the reason all the older FJs have not suffered the dreaded 2nd gear issue is that we all love the 3rd and 4th gear kookaloo.. :dance:
Think about it, where is it that the kookaloo zone is? For me, it's 3rd and 4th gear on the wide sweepers. The old gal is just too heavy for the dive into the corners in second and pin the throttle.
It's the flow, not the stuff it in and go that makes the kookaloo glow. Unless it's on a little 2 stroke made in the 70's. :yes:
CraigO
I owned an XS11 for some years. Mine was the 1981 model. Really nice bike. I never had to do anything to her apart from servicing. She was however very heavy on oil. Plus mine used 10kays to a liter, whereas the FJ returns 17.
In comparison with the FJ, they do not compare. The FJ handles and goes and does everything just so much better.
I did longish distances on the XS11 (450 km one way every 2nd weekend and then the same distance back). It handles that very well and was very comfortable, it is just that the FJ is so much better in all respects.
Thanks again for your insights!
The FJ1200 engine produces quite a bit of extra horsepower compared to the XS1100 engine. The slightly larger displacement cannot contribute a whole lot of extra power.
Is the power band shifted towards higher rpm's with the FJ1200?
Another question I have is related to the gear ratio. Does the FJ run a lower rev's at any given speed compared to the XS1100? With my XS I am always trying to shift into 6th gear at freeway speeds.
Cheers,
Armin
I have forgotten the revs on the XS11. Try the website www.xs11.com (http://www.xs11.com). If I remember correctly they have a spreadsheet which lists the revs at certain speeds. I used that when the XS decided that the speedo shows 120kmph instead of the 155 I was caught at.