I am building a engine for my 1985 FJ1100.
I bought an engine that lost oil pressure and it will be my base for the build.1250 motor bored out to 1314cc with a ported head.
It came with cams but they had been swaped out and needed set back up.I had never done cams so I used the cams to do a test fit.I bought a used set of cams that I was going to use and they should be here soon.Meanwhille i am digging through some parts and i found some old cams.2 sets and one set has had some work done to them.Cam lobes measure about .060" bigger than oem and have altered profile.Cams have #s on them if that helps.(I can get #s for you as there in the car)
QUESTION IS
Should I use the modified cams or the oem cams.I am leaning towards the moded ones if they will improve performance.
I havent opened up the cases yet to see why it lost pressure that comes next.
It will still sport 1100 stickers no need to advertise the FJ1314 sleeper.
I will be working on it when I have time and when the weather allows I can use the 85 1100 and the 90 1200 for donor parts when needed.
QUESTION IS
Should I use the modified cams or the oem cams.I am leaning towards the moded ones if they will improve performance.
[/quote]
One of my favourite subjects. I have removed many "hot" cams over the years to restore engines to a useable condition. Hot cams alone generally change power delivery rather than add to it ,to mostly high rpm only. In most cases the kick in the pants power band is more perceived than real because of the loss of torque at lower rpm. My view is hot cams should only be part of package of mods to increase power, not a stand alone one. I also believe their are many more people that have the tools to grind cams than understand the process. As a rule I would suggest that hot cams are best left to racing machines, you wouldn't want lose that monster torque! From V8's to bike engines I've never seen a road vehicles useable power enhanced by modded cams.
And finally, one might ask why, if the cams were an improvement, aren't they installed in a motor somewhere?
Noel
If you're making the engine bigger, the cams need to get larger to retain the character of the motor.
Depends on what you want, really. I don't see any purpose in going to a huge piston if I'm not going to open the valve long enough to let it work harder!
Cams have
26800-DY
11 . 91
on them
Probably these guys...... MegaCycle Cams (http://www.megacyclecams.com/catalog/pages/page%2065.pdf)
Thank you megacycle cams they are.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on October 29, 2011, 12:15:01 AM
Thank you megacycle cams they are.
Those are nice cams and work well with a 1314. They are a little hotter than the old Yoshimura Stage 1 pieces. The hardweld produces less friction and lasts much, much longer than any billet cam. Those cams do not have a lot of duration so you maintain good torque. I would set the lobe centers to 105....you will need slotted sprockets. I highly recommend springs too.
Quote from: JMR on October 29, 2011, 08:28:21 AM
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on October 29, 2011, 12:15:01 AM
Thank you megacycle cams they are.
Those are nice cams and work well with a 1314. They are a little hotter than the old Yoshimura Stage 1 pieces. The hardweld produces less friction and lasts much, much longer than any billet cam. Those cams do not have a lot of duration so you maintain good torque. I would set the lobe centers to 105....you will need slotted sprockets. I highly recommend springs too.
I do have slotted sprockets and a box of valves and valve springs.I dont know if there stock springs or not.I dont have a load tester but I can count # of turns and measure length and thickness.Who knows I might get lucky with the springs.
i would recommend getting a brand new set of valve springs.... preferably aftermarket.
reusing old valve springs will cost you a bunch of horsepower.
KOokaloo!
Cold here brrrrrr.I got to work on my motor today though.I found out my oil pump was shot.Gear on it was spinning free.Splines were stripped.That would explain why there was no oil pressure.New pump is in.I need to find some bolts I need to remove a cam chain tensioner from one of my bikes for the 1314 I used a tensioner with no bolt and spring to set up my cams.I need to do something with the extra oil ports in the head either plug them or get a top oiler kit.Im going to a use double spring set up in the clutch.I also need to check valve clearance. Then its time to drop the engine from the 85 so the 1314 can go in.
Top oiler kit not needed - especially for a street bike. Also, there is VERY LITTLE room next to the frame to make it happen. I did it for a dragbike using an aftermarket block I couldn't get to seal the oil passages. Not worth the effort for a stock style block!
With the oil pump loss, what shape are the bearings in? Any damage to the main or rod journals on the crank? Spin a bearing in a rod?
Also consider upgrading to XJR rods (talk to Randy at RPM) - stronger and lighter than FJ rods.
Good luck and keep us posted on the progress! Pictures of the build in progress please - I'm having withdrawls...
Chris
Like Chris said, the head oiler is not needed and will not fit without major modification as it will hit the frame.
You do need to make sure the internal oil passages have not been blocked off on that head you are planning on using which is a common practice by a lot of engine builders.
Secondly, if you have a 1250 head it will not fit in the frame of the FJ. The FJ head fins have a curvature to them and the 1250 head is square. You will need to match the fin profile of a FJ head if you are planning on using a 1250 head. You will only need to match the intake side as there is no interference problems at the front of the head.
Randy - RPM
Randy,
I happen to have a complete 1250 engine in my 86 frame.... granted it is tight, and there is a trick to getting it in place but no modifications were required to fit it other than modifying the chain cover.
KOokaloo!
Pulled the 1100 motor last night.I could have used an extra set of hands but its out.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on December 06, 2011, 09:39:18 PM
Randy,
I happen to have a complete 1250 engine in my 86 frame.... granted it is tight, and there is a trick to getting it in place but no modifications were required to fit it other than modifying the chain cover.
KOokaloo!
Well there ya go, I was running the valves on a 93 yesterday and by looking at it I did not think it would fit. I looked at the space on my 86 as well and I wouldn't believe it.
But since it has been done, he should be ready to go.
Randy - RPM
I did a test fit 1250 motor head and cam cover fits in the frame.
I think I need to buy a sprocket cover/clutch slave mount as my 1100 cover wont fit.Anybody have a xjr1250 cover for sale.I found one on ebay but its big $$.I need a couple of c/c bolts too there a diferent size than the 1100 /1200.I think it was #32 and #34 I need.So I need 2 cc bolts and I think I need a xjr 1250 sprocket cover and bolts to make this work.
Heavy engine to lift up onto the workench by yourself.
Posted by: racerman_27410
Insert Quote
Randy,
I happen to have a complete 1250 engine in my 86 frame.... granted it is tight, and there is a trick to getting it in place but no modifications were required to fit it other than modifying the chain cover.
What did you do to the chain cover ?
Posted by: racerrad8
Insert Quote
Like Chris said, the head oiler is not needed and will not fit without major modification as it will hit the frame.
You do need to make sure the internal oil passages have not been blocked off on that head you are planning on using which is a common practice by a lot of engine builders.
How do I check this.
the rear "ear" has to be cut off the chain cover in order to clear the frame.
no big deal.
also make sure you have the 1250 clutch pushrod (its longer)
Kookaloo!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on December 15, 2011, 05:53:31 AM
the rear "ear" has to be cut off the chain cover in order to clear the frame.
no big deal.
also make sure you have the 1250 clutch pushrod (its longer)
Kookaloo!
I have the longer pushrod and an extra 1100/1200 cover I can modify.
You are using a 1100/1200 cover not a XJR1250 cover then.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on December 15, 2011, 12:34:10 AM
1) I think I need to buy a sprocket cover/clutch slave mount as my 1100 cover wont fit.Anybody have a xjr1250 cover for sale.I found one on ebay but its big $$.I need a couple of c/c bolts too there a diferent size than the 1100 /1200.I think it was #32 and #34 I need.So I need 2 cc bolts and I think I need a xjr 1250 sprocket cover and bolts to make this work.
You do need to make sure the internal oil passages have not been blocked off on that head you are planning on using which is a common practice by a lot of engine builders.
2) How do I check this?
1) I guess I am confused about the direction you are going. I thought you were transferring over the top-end parts to your 1100 bottom end. If you are using the 1250 lower end then you will need the 1250 sprocket cover. I do have them brand new and you will also need the five bolts, bearing and two seals for the shift shaft. Email me if you want me to get pricing for you and like Randy T stated, it will need to be modified just like axiom-r did on his R1 swingarm install.
2) With the head off the engine, turn it over to be able to see into the left side stud/dowel holes. Each hole will have an angled hole that supplies the oil the the cams. If it is plugged, then there is usually a 1/4" set screw installed in each of the holes.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/HeadOilHoles002.jpg)
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on December 15, 2011, 11:42:15 AM
You do need to make sure the internal oil passages have not been blocked off on that head you are planning on using which is a common practice by a lot of engine builders.
With the head off the engine, turn it over to be able to see into the left side stud/dowel holes. Each hole will have an angled hole that supplies the oil the the cams. If it is plugged, then there is usually a 1/4" set screw installed in each of the holes.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/HeadOilHoles002.jpg)
Randy - RPM
Randy, why would an engine builder do this? To increase oil pressure? Then how would oil get to the cams? External oil lines like a Hank Scott's oiling system?
I think I just answered my own question.....carry on....
Im using the 1250 motor in the 1100 frame.
So i cant mod the 1100 cover to work.I was going to try and remove material on the inside to get it to fit flush till I could get a 1250 cover.
you will also need the five bolts, bearing and two seals for the shift shaft.
What 5 bolts bearing and seals ?
I do need 2 c/c bolts.Located at the left rear of the engine are 3 large cc bolts I have the middle one im missing the other 2.
What it looked like to me was that I need a 1250 cover and bolts as the 1100 cover was to narrow and wont clear the sprocket or fit flush to the c/cases.
you will also need the five bolts, bearing and two seals for the shift shaft.
What 5 bolts bearing and seals ?
Why do I need them ?
Dont I have them in my 1250 cases already ?
im glad I looked online before heading out to Palatine to cut up a cover .
From reading the others past experience you will not be able to remove enough material to make the 1100 cover work.
When you install the 1250 cover, you will need all of the associated hardware to make it work. (five bolts, one bearing & two seals) Since you do not have the cover, yes you will need them and no your 1100 cover does not have them. The 1250 cover is 8mm wider and requires the longer bolts to mount it, and your 1100 cover/slave bolts will not work.
The other two crankcase bolts at the rear for the block are no problem, I have plenty of those.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 15, 2011, 12:24:29 PM
Randy, why would an engine builder do this? To increase oil pressure? Then how would oil get to the cams?
They use two reasons...
1) To get the oil to travel to the head externally to keep it cooler so it doesnot absorb heat traveling through the engine.
2) To increase oil flow (not pressure)
to the head.
There is a minuet basis of #1.
#2 is just a selling point unless there is modifications done to the to increase the flow within the head.
And I can tell you, that in all of my years, I have never had a head in my hands from another engine builder that had this modification completed. It is something I do to all of my engines wether they are externally oiled or not.
Randy - RPM
Randy
I need the parts but im still not sure what seals bolts etc I need.Can you help me order the right parts. :good2:
[quote author=Flying Scotsman link=topic=5261.msg48552#msg48552 date=1323963639
I have the longer pushrod and an extra 1100/1200 cover I can modify.
You are using a 1100/1200 cover not a XJR1250 cover then.
[/quote]
nope i am using the complete 1250 engine including the sprocket cover..... you have to use the 1250 cover on the 1250 engine as the output shaft/shift shaft and clutch pushrod are all longer than the stock FJ engine.
KOokaloo!
Thanks for being patient guys.
Randy said he had the parts I need so I will go ahead and order from him.
I need a c/c filter as well.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on December 15, 2011, 05:10:20 PM
Thanks for being patient guys.
Randy said he had the parts I need so I will go ahead and order from him.
I need a c/c filter as well.
are you already running a wider rear wheel? Might be a good time to think about it.
the output shaft on the 1250 engine will allow you to easily run a 5.5 inch rim with a 180 rear tire without having to worry about spacing out the C/S sprocket. (the XJR uses these sizes)
if you are still running stock wheels then you are going to need to space out your rear sprocket in order to get a straight chain run.
KOokaloo!
I was wondering about the sprocket offset.
Do you know what the difference is in inches or mm.
Could go either way with sprocket or wider rear wheel I will have to read up on it.Saying that my 85 1100 sits nicer for me (im short) and rides and handles better than my 90 1200 on stock wheels.My old bias ply Dunlop 501 is wider than the Michelin Mcadam on the 90 as well.
85 rides awesome even has antidive.If I put a different rear wheel on and mess that up it would suck though.
Randy I sent you a email.I need to talk to you so I can order some parts.
Scott.........
Contact made thank you Randy :hi:
I took the 1990 FJ1200 out the other day because I couldnt take the 1985 FJ1300 out.I was cold but I had fun.
I do have the 85 running but I need to align the sprockets so I can test ride her.
I have a few more things to do but im getting closer.
I tried shimming the rear sprocket out 8mm that had the lower run on the chain hitting the frame.
I am going to shift the drive sprocket in 8mm and leave the rear sprocket unshimmed.
I wanted to go for a first run today but that didn't happen.Today was the warmest day we have had in a whille.
Any body have a drive sprocket for a fj thats offset -8 mm inwards I can buy,or do I have to have one made up ?.
Hate to interrupt your conversation with yourself :yes: , but I doubt you'll have sufficient clearance to clear the chain if you offset the countershaft sprocket 8mm inwards. I haven't measured, but IIRC there's not a lot of room there.
Cheers,
Arnie
Should be fine.
I will know when I pull the cover off and the sprocket.
I have 1250 cases and gears so I think cases are the same as FJ but gear set is longer.
Drive sprocket has been moved in 8 mm and theres no clearance issues and chain is lined up.I have had her out but just for a short ride due to the weather.
Scott.........
Had her out today.
I took a few pics and put them in the gallery.